Official BBR Tier List v7

[superderob]

Zero Suit Samus? mm...but...but...she have no killing power....

 

[Z'zgashi]

Mario has stubby limbs with disjoint on only 4 attacks: Fireball, Cape, FLUDD, fSmash.

Linkshot apparently completely forgot about Mario's Up B:

 

[NickRiddle]

Zero Suit Samus? mm...but...but...she have no killing power....

More than Falco.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Her Dsmash is an amazing kill move. It's just that it requires a hard read to pull it off.

 

[DRN]

Zero Suit Samus? mm...but...but...she have no killing power....

Uhh wha?

She has a good amount of kill power with quite a few moves.

 

[Linkshot]

Linkshot apparently completely forgot about Mario's Up B:

giganticdisjoint.png

Holy dear jesus

Well at least the move is a committed anti-air.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS lacks a lot of stuff, kill power isn't one of them. I think over half her moves can kill at 100-120%, lol. She usually has at least one that isn't stale.

Anyway the ZSS infinite on squirtle is a grab-release pummel infinite. It has a very small frame window and does very little damage... You can small step it to the ledge but I don't recall if you can do anything there. >_> Plus you have to land a grab on squirtle, which is really difficult.

Fun fact: you can small step the Wario grab release infinite and try to cheese up-b him at the ledge.

Her Dsmash is an amazing kill move. It's just that it requires a hard read to pull it off.

Ehhh... she really only needs a "soft" read to land it, and throwing it out just to see if it lands isn't very risky unless you're spamming it. Dsmash is pretty good and pretty safe.

ZSS' weaknesses IMO are mostly her landing game, weight, and awkward jump heights, especially the latter. If she had like marth's jumps she'd be much stronger on stage (probably worse off-stage though). A lot of other weaknesses are overstated (especially her OOS options, which are really quite good in most cases).

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Fun fact: you can small step the Wario grab release infinite and try to cheese up-b him at the ledge.

Neat--I didn't know that. However, couldn't you just grab-release and D-Smash -> Down-B at the ledge instead?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Neat--I didn't know that. However, couldn't you just grab-release and D-Smash -> Down-B at the ledge instead?

You can't dsmash Wario out of grab release unless he doesn't have his bike. If the bike is somehow still onstage after all that grab-releasing, then sure.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Linkshot apparently completely forgot about Mario's Up B:

don't forget about his usmash too. lol

 

[Linkshot]

You can't dsmash Wario out of grab release unless he doesn't have his bike. If the bike is somehow still onstage after all that grab-releasing, then sure.

The bike does not despawn after a certain amount of time. It has to be broken, consumed, or thrown off.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Ah, wasn't aware. It's been very few times I've even seen it stay on stage for that amount of time!

 

[NickRiddle]

If Wario holds away and jumps, you can NEVER land the d-smash.

 

[infiniteV115]

ZSS has absolutely no problem killing. Her kill moves are easy to land and though they don't kill particularly early (except for sideB and downB, but..yeah), the percents she has to get the opponent to before she can kill them are by no means inconveniently high. If anything, killing is one of her stronger attributes.


ZSS in top tier? ZSS>Wario?
Discuss.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Not to be a stickler or anything, but the Falco:MK MU doesn't involve CGs and Falco loses that one.

No, he doesn't.

I also think a few of his listed even MUs (Pit, Lucario, etc.) are actually in the other chars' favors even though no CGs are involved.

You'd be wrong then 0_0
Like wtf @ Lucario beating Falco. Even Pit is a stretch although that one is definitely even.

Nothing surprising really. ZSS only has -1's, so it makes sense that her worst MU would also be.......a -1.

Still fail to see how her match-up vs MK is any better than -2 tbh. And she's also -1 with Diddy, Wario, Falco alongside Olimar [and that's not counting the -1s that the ZSS consensus disagrees with such as Snake]. I have a hard time believing Olimar could possibly her worst at -1. It's either her worst match-up at -2 or it isn't her worst one to begin with.

ZSS in top tier? ZSS>Wario?
Discuss.

Even if ZSS were better than Wario it wouldn't be anywhere near the realm of top tier but rather like on low-mid high tier imo.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I also think a few of his listed even MUs (Pit, Lucario, etc.) are actually in the other chars' favors even though no CGs are involved.

Wow, there partner. You'te riding into unfamiliar territory now, theorycrafting characters ya don't know. Its definitely not in lucario's favor. Ditch the 2 frame jab and reflector and MAYBE we can start making claims like that. I'm guessing the same goes for Arm-Pit.

 

[Luigi player]

lucario vs falco doesnt seem bad for luc to me...

 

[Linkshot]

It's terrible for 'cario if Falco plays the laserlaserphantasm game.
Pit can stand his ground and counter camp. Arrows are tricky enough to sneak around the reflector. I'd still say the margin is -1 or 0 for Pit, though.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

If Wario holds away and jumps, you can NEVER land the d-smash.

I've hear this said but I tested it about a year ago and it doesn't seem this is true?

Do you have a video showing this?

 

[Lukingordex]

ZSS has absolutely no problem killing. Her kill moves are easy to land and though they don't kill particularly early (except for sideB and downB, but..yeah), the percents she has to get the opponent to before she can kill them are by no means inconveniently high. If anything, killing is one of her stronger attributes.


ZSS in top tier? ZSS>Wario?
Discuss.

Wario has not much problems to kill too.

A player who knows how to use the fart correctly,his really good air game and some others good things on Wario,is a happy player.

 

[infiniteV115]

...I know?
I never said Wario was bad at killing XD

 

[Lukingordex]

I just gave an example, there was nothing to contradict you on my post.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I ****ing hate Falco. That is all.

 

[Lukingordex]

I ****ing hate Falco. That is all.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I ****ing hate Falco. That is all.

Honestly, I think its a worse match up then lucario for Yushee.

 

[Lukingordex]

Honestly, I think its a worse match up then lucario for Yushee.

I don´t think,I´m sure.

 

[infiniteV115]

I just gave an example, there was nothing to contradict you on my post.

Wtf
Then why did you bother to tell me? Did you just assume I knew nothing about Wario and decide to tell me that he can kill with fart and has good aerials and stuff? It was completely irrelevant to everything.

It'd be like if somebody made a post about platform cancelling, and then I quoted the post and said that Pit beats Falco on Brinstar.

 

[Lukingordex]

I just gave the example of some good things of Wario,things who can be added on that ZSS vs Wario discussion.

That do not means that I am saying you do not know anything about Wario lol

 

[Luxord]

ZSS has absolutely no problem killing. Her kill moves are easy to land and though they don't kill particularly early (except for sideB and downB, but..yeah), the percents she has to get the opponent to before she can kill them are by no means inconveniently high. If anything, killing is one of her stronger attributes.


ZSS in top tier? ZSS>Wario?
Discuss.

ZSS does have easy to land kill moves, but since her air juggle is SO amazing it doesn't matter if they don't kill too early (as you obviously know). To those who think her "weak" kill moves aren't enough, ZSS can take stage control really fast, even moreso if she uses her parts on first stock to get her opponent off.

Oh and v115 isn't side B only an "early killer" if you get tip and/or you get it in the air (where you're twice as close to the killzones). I only ask because getting a side-B on ground usually doesn't kill for me.

Honestly, I think its a worse match up then lucario for Yushee.

No way man. Yoshi can do close to nothing versus Jab and Phantasm (it's not even the lasers as much lmao).

 

[Luxord]

Honestly, I think its a worse match up then lucario for Yushee.

No way man. Yoshi can do close to nothing versus Jab and Phantasm (it's not even the lasers as much lmao).

 

[Z'zgashi]

Thats what he was saying... He was saying Falco was worse than Lucario, which it is.

And also, yur dumb, lasers are one of the biggest reasons Yoshi cant do anything to Falco. We cant powershield lasers, we can outcamp him, and his lasers control the stage way too much. Jab/Phantasm is really bad too, but saying lasers dont do much just shows how little you know about the MU. The main reason Yoshi has so few terrible MUs is the fact that Yoshi has mobility and stage control, that allows him to at least avoid and be in control even during a lot of his bad MUs, but Falco's lasers negate that, forcing us to have to deal with his jab/phantasm/etc. I can guarantee you, without Falco's lasers, the MU wouldnt be bad for Yoshi. Yoshi would probably still lose, but it wouldnt be bad at all.

 

[infiniteV115]

Well if it's fresh then it can probably kill pretty early. I'm pretty sure it's stronger than bair/fair

 

[Tesh]

Where should Sopo be on the Tier List. I think he should be right above DDD.

 

[infiniteV115]

Sopo's better than DDD but he doesn't deserve a position on the tier list.

THen again you might as well just take DDD off the tier list and replace him with Sopo, Sopo's just a better version of DDD cause Sopo has a hammer and can chaingrab and has a big disjointed uair, but he doesn't suck.

 

[Tesh]

If we can talk him down to mid tier, his spot could serve a purpose just like zelda.

Now that I think about it, Sopo is definitely exactly as good as ROB.

 

[da K.I.D.]

sopo doesnt suck?

what is this blasphemy?

 

[IhaveSonar]

Sopo and Nolimar would make quite the interesting team in doubles.

 

[DeLux]

Sopo isn't better than DDD >_>

He's not as good at Rob >_>

what is this I don't even Vinnie why

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I think it was a joke.

OR at least, I would HOPE it was a joke. >_>

 

[Orion*]

Sopo is probably as good as lucas