Official BBR Tier List v7

[Life]

im never wrong

half-tempted to sig this

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

ill sig you saying that you're half tempted to sig it if you sig it. deal?

edit:

oh wow this place died after i posted yeseterday. did i succeed in destroying the hopes of the tier list thread? next time on "party times with maharba"


thats me

 

[infiniteV115]

My last name is 1 letter away from being an anagram for 'Maharba'. I feel like a disgrace to the human race.

 

[C.J.]

Why did you notice that?

 

[sheikamaru]

if i give you guys his address will you guys nominate me as a moderator?

 

[Tien2500]

Mewtwo can be countered by various OUs in 386 and at least should have been tried out. This isn't the thread for it though.

What OUs can reliably counter Mewtwo? There are different Pokemon that could counter different sets, but on the whole he seems too powerful and versatile for OU. Maybe off topic, but not like there's anything else going on...

 

[Shaya]

Well, I'm sure scarf houndoom (or whatever) / Tyranitar could "kill" a Mewtwo. I forget what fighting moves are available in 3rd gen for Mewtwo, and Mewtwo could probably be built to survive two attacks from both of them anyway.

Super versatile Gengar, because Mewtwo never carried Psychic. But he has shadow ball, no?

 

[DMG]

Mewtwo can be countered by various OUs in 386 and at least should have been tried out. This isn't the thread for it though.

aaaaaaa

Well, I'm sure scarf houndoom (or whatever) / Tyranitar could "kill" a Mewtwo. I forget what fighting moves are available in 3rd gen for Mewtwo, and Mewtwo could probably be built to survive two attacks from both of them anyway.

Super versatile Gengar, because Mewtwo never carried Psychic. But he has shadow ball, no?

386 Shaya. 386. Choice Scarf was not around during that time: only Choice Band. That means you couldn't trap him or revenge kill him with a Scarfed Pokemon.

Gengar is outsped by Mewtwo, and while it would be uncommon to see him use STAB, Psychic would beat the snot out of Gengar. Mewtwo himself can also use Shadow ball and would molest Gengar with that. What you have to remember though, is that Gen 3 Shadow ball was a physical move. Move typing determined if you were Physical or Special: All Water attacks were Special All Fire was Special All Fighting was Physical etc. DPPt introduced the Physical/Special split and now attacks make "sense" as in oh Waterfall sounds like a Physical move, Fire Punch is physical, Crunch is Physical, etc. Gengar didn't carry Shadow Ball in Gen 3 because it counted as Physical due to the Ghost typing, and obviously Gengar's attack blows and you would only occasionally spec him attack --> Focus Punch to beat some of his counters.

In OU, Mewtwo has no Pokemon that outspeed him. Jolteon and Aerodactyl speed tie, and everyone else is slower. Starmie Alakazam and even Dugtrio are too slow. The only Pokemon worth noting that were faster were most of the Deoxys forms, and in particular Deoxys-A was commonly used back then to keep Mewtwo in check (usually with a Choice Band to guarantee Shadow ball kills Mewtwo). Technically Electrode and Ninjask are faster, but will never do a damn thing to Mewtwo so that's irrelevant lol. Oh and Crobat ties, but again won't do **** to him.

 

[Problem2]

386 Shaya. 386. Choice Scarf was not around during that time: only Choice Band. That means you couldn't trap him or revenge kill him with a Scarfed Pokemon.

Gengar is outspeed by Mewtwo, and while it would be uncommon to see him use STAB, Psychic would beat the snot out of Gengar. Mewtwo himself can also use Shadow ball and would molest Gengar with that. What you have to remember though, is that Gen 3 Shadow ball was a physical move. Move typing determined if you were Physical or Special: All Water attacks were Special All Fire was Special All Fighting was Physical etc. DPPt introduced the Physical/Special split and now attacks make "sense" as in oh Waterfall sounds like a Physical move, Fire Punch is physical, Crunch is Physical, etc. Gengar didn't carry Shadow Ball in Gen 3 because it counted as Physical due to the Ghost typing, and obviously Gengar's attack blows and you would only occasionally spec him attack --> Focus Punch to beat some of his counters.

McIceGar was the bomb. Hope your Snorlax knows Shadow Ball instead of Earthquake!

<3 Gen 3 meta

 

[pidgezero_one]

Those ATs have amounted to exactly jack **** and succeeding at trolling is like the little kid who uses cheat codes and leaves the game running to accumulate points; immature, misguided and meaningless

actually, succeeding at trolling is more like eating a big box of poutine

it smells tempting, it tastes great, makes you feel bloated and fat and a little guilty afterwards, and then the next day you do it again because damn does it ever smell good

 

[darthlink777]

I still think Ganondorf has the potential to be higher on the list. I think he could seriously take on an unsuspecting Snake

 

[pidgezero_one]

ganon utilt > snake utilt

not trolling

 

[darthlink777]

true freaking story

 

[Z'zgashi]

As much as I love Ganon, hes so ****ing bad in this game, its sad. And thats coming from a Bowser player.

 

[darthlink777]

but the potential! the hidden behind his seemingly awful moveset. have you seen a good Ganon? look it up on youtube. it's scary what he's capable of, especially considering that people don't know how to fight him because he's so low. they just don't expect him!

 

[Tesh]

ganon's uptilt is really good in teams so yea

 

[Luco]

but the potential! the hidden behind his seemingly awful moveset. have you seen a good Ganon? look it up on youtube. it's scary what he's capable of, especially considering that people don't know how to fight him because he's so low. they just don't expect him!

Perhaps higher than zelda or something, tbh I don't know. Ganon's not bad, only bad in the context that he's bottom tier in Brawl. He's an okay character by himself I guess... it just so happens that almost all of Brawl's cast was made better than him. :o

 

[infiniteV115]

WHY AM I PEEIN G

 

[darthlink777]

Perhaps higher than zelda or something, tbh I don't know. Ganon's not bad, only bad in the context that he's bottom tier in Brawl. He's an okay character by himself I guess... it just so happens that almost all of Brawl's cast was made better than him. :o

i think he actually does stand a damn good chance against other heavies, including Snake. against light and quick characters like Falco and Fox, it's a real challenge, but against DKs, Bowsers, Ikes, etc, his moveset has a lot of priority and even some advantages over theirs.

 

[Luco]

I can't see that, i'm afraid. Snake would just camp all day, Ike would be able to approach him easy and do damage once he's there and Bowser has a good OoS option and klaws if ganon gets too close.

But, you know, i'm a scrub, so this is theory-craft, and I wouldn't be surprised if i'm wrong. >_> I don't know much about ganon anyway.

 

[darthlink777]

See, Snake really only has his grenades to keep Ganon at bay, and since Ganon can take on more damage than most, he can easily approach him. if snake goes into the air, all he has speed-wise are his up and back aerials, whereas, Ganon has a turbo-fast up, back, and down air. even his neutral-air has the ability to negate MK's tornado. if Snake is on the ground, he stands a bit more chance, but if Ganon can get him over the edge, Snake's up-B is way too predictable and slow to easily avoid a stomp or even an up-air gimp, especially if the Ganon knows Snake recovery real well.
as for Bowser, Ganon has speed on his side. his neutral-A, side-tilt, down-tilt, and down-B all are all fast, and great for playing the damage trade-off game, not to mention killing, and his down-throw into up-air into forward-B into neutral-A or down-tilt works beautifully against heavies like Bowser (not to mention Snake as well).
Ike's are slow also, and a Ganon can easily super-armor a forward smash with his forward-b, which can leave the Ike pretty screwed. Ganon's spacing game is not to be underestimated, what with his down and forward-tilts, as well as his down-b
anywho, that's enough Ganon technicalities for one night.

 

[Tesh]

ganon has....speed...on his side...

 

[darthlink777]

not sure if trolling or serious, but yeah. have you seen how fast those up and back-airs come out?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

actually, succeeding at trolling is more like eating a big box of poutine

it smells tempting, it tastes great, makes you feel bloated and fat and a little guilty afterwards, and then the next day you do it again because damn does it ever smell good

I'm all for trolling if it's actually clever

unfortunately it very rarely is

 

[Tesh]

You realize, even compared to Snake he isn't very fast. You are talking about a positional advantage (ganon's decent juggle game on snake) and calling it speed. Ganon takes like 8 frames to leave the ground then 7 or so frames for the aerial. I wouldn't really call it fast. His jab, tilts, grab are all slower than Snake's equivalent options.

 

[darthlink777]

go back and look at those aerials. they are undeniably quick. and it is actually possible to get a jab off in the middle of Snake's jab jab kick combo. but also, like i said, Ganon can trade off damage a lot better than other characters because of his weight and when he gets higher, because of his DI. once Ganon gets a single hit in, it becomes easy apply pressure, because all of his moves do a good amount of knock-back. when the Snake is above 50 (not a hard task for a Ganondorf) he can follow up with, ideally, a forward tilt, which sends enemies horizontal, meaning a heavy Snake will be below the stage. after that, it's a simple matter of either gimping or stomping Snake out of that slow-*** up-B. plus, what you're forgetting, is that a Snake player is going to have virtually no experience fighting a good Ganondorf, so he won't know how to apply his meta against such a different character. he won't know how his priority will react to Ganondorf's, what his reach will be against a Ganon's reach, and a host of other things that he won't be prepared for. that is where one of Ganon's biggest assets lies. his rock-bottom tier-ness is actually a huge advantage, because no one thinks they're going to fight him. of course, this would only work for awhile, but in the amount of time that Ganon would be bumped up in the tier list, people would use him more, and his meta (inb4 Ganon meta is nonexistent) would expand to be able to fight more competitively, ultimately bringing him up from the lowest of the low.

 

[-LzR-]

4/5. I like you darthlink.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What OUs can reliably counter Mewtwo? There are different Pokemon that could counter different sets, but on the whole he seems too powerful and versatile for OU. Maybe off topic, but not like there's anything else going on...

Mewtwo doesn't have a "consistent" counter meaning that there is no Pokemon that can counter every one of Mewtwo's movesets. That much is true. But the same could be said about Tyranitar who in 386 has at least 3 viable movesets, each of them countering those Pokemon that counter another of Tyranitar's moveset.

For example: the "original" Tyranitar moveset had Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Rockslide and either Taunt or Substitute. This moveset generally used to be countered with Claydol, Donphan, Swampert, Flygon, Milotic and Suicune. But people started to mix in different movesets for Tyranitar, one which uses Substitute, Focus Punch, Crunch and Thunderbolt - this moveset was more based on special attack power and countered literally all of the Pokemon mentioned before at least to the extent that you wouldn't switch them in against that Tyranitar. Now you've had to find a direct counter to that moveset, which - somewhat surprisingly - turned out to be Heracross. But only if the Tyranitar decided to not use Flamethrower over Thunderbolt, in which case a water tank is the better choice. But how do you know? There is no consistent counter to that - the most reliable thing you have is switching in Dugtrio but that only works if Tyranitar doesn't have an active Substitute while at the same time one of your Pokemon has just died [because that's the only situation in which you can actually switch it in against Tyranitar]. So essentially, it becomes a guessing game between countering the Dragon Dancer moveset and the various SubPunch / mixed sweeper sets. The only Pokemon that legit can be switched into all of Tyrantiars viable movesets is Swampert and even that is not a good idea in all situations.

Cases like that exist for Jirachi, who can change up his moveset to circumvent his counters as well [which are Claydol and Steelix] and even Pokemon like Salamence or the underrated Dragonite could do that. Most people would just not think outside of the box and use standard movesets without understanding the how and why of this game. That's why even in a more advanced metagame people would either resort to SkarmBliss or complain about it.

Gengar is outsped by Mewtwo, and while it would be uncommon to see him use STAB, Psychic would beat the snot out of Gengar. Mewtwo himself can also use Shadow ball and would molest Gengar with that. What you have to remember though, is that Gen 3 Shadow ball was a physical move. Move typing determined if you were Physical or Special: All Water attacks were Special All Fire was Special All Fighting was Physical etc. DPPt introduced the Physical/Special split and now attacks make "sense" as in oh Waterfall sounds like a Physical move, Fire Punch is physical, Crunch is Physical, etc. Gengar didn't carry Shadow Ball in Gen 3 because it counted as Physical due to the Ghost typing, and obviously Gengar's attack blows and you would only occasionally spec him attack --> Focus Punch to beat some of his counters.

In OU, Mewtwo has no Pokemon that outspeed him. Jolteon and Aerodactyl speed tie, and everyone else is slower. Starmie Alakazam and even Dugtrio are too slow. The only Pokemon worth noting that were faster were most of the Deoxys forms, and in particular Deoxys-A was commonly used back then to keep Mewtwo in check (usually with a Choice Band to guarantee Shadow ball kills Mewtwo). Technically Electrode and Ninjask are faster, but will never do a damn thing to Mewtwo so that's irrelevant lol. Oh and Crobat ties, but again won't do **** to him.

You're right for the most part but you overemphasize the importance of speed in this case. It's about being able to generally outlive Psychic via resistances / immunity and being able to hit back hard enough to reliably destroy Mewtwo's substitute. This is easier achieved than a lot of people think. Actually, every single of Mewtwo's sets has a clear counter. Psychic, Calm Mind, Substitute are basically a must-have for Mewto in 386 so its counter depends on which he uses as his 4th move. Flamethrower?Beaten by Tyranitar. Ice Beam? Beaten by Metagross, even Jirachi could be iffy. Thunderbolt? Beaten by Claydol.
It should have at least been tried.

 

[DMG]

Why is Psychic mandatory when it has such poor coverage? Running 2 coverage moves sounds smarter.

 

[SoulPech]

WHY AM I PEEIN G

wait wut ?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

WHY AM I PEEIN G

Because your drank liquid previously.

 

[Dekillsage]

See, Snake really only has his grenades to keep Ganon at bay, and since Ganon can take on more damage than most, he can easily approach him. if snake goes into the air, all he has speed-wise are his up and back aerials, whereas, Ganon has a turbo-fast up, back, and down air. even his neutral-air has the ability to negate MK's tornado. if Snake is on the ground, he stands a bit more chance, but if Ganon can get him over the edge, Snake's up-B is way too predictable and slow to easily avoid a stomp or even an up-air gimp, especially if the Ganon knows Snake recovery real well.

I agree 100% nailed it right on head.

 

[infiniteV115]

I can't tell if either of you are being serious (sage and darthlink)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

no, it's true. ganon beats snake. i was there.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Ok I'm glad we finally replaced bowser beating ics with something a little more reasonable, that gannon beats snake. Can't say I'm too surprised though, we already came to the conclusion earlier that snake sucks.

 

[Flayl]

no, it's true. ganon beats snake. i was there.

I was there the day the strength of Snake failed.

- Snake, hurry! Cast Ganon into the C4! Destroy him!
- No.
- SNAAAAKE!

It should have ended that day, but evil was allowed to endure. Ganon won the set. The tiers of characters are broken. There's no strength left in lower A tier. They're scattered, divided, leaderless.

 

[darthlink777]

I was there the day the strength of Snake failed.

- Snake, hurry! Cast Ganon into the C4! Destroy him!
- No.
- SNAAAAKE!

It should have ended that day, but evil was allowed to endure. Ganon won the set. The tiers of characters are broken. There's no strength left in lower A tier. They're scattered, divided, leaderless.

****ing lol'd
edit: i'm stealing this for future use

I can't tell if either of you are being serious (sage and darthlink)

tis true

I agree 100% nailed it right on head.

4/5. I like you darthlink.

i love both of you too

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

actually, succeeding at trolling is more like eating a big box of poutine

it smells tempting, it tastes great, makes you feel bloated and fat and a little guilty afterwards, and then the next day you do it again because damn does it ever smell good

this is the greatest post i have ever seen on swf.

darthlink is teh swag.

out

 

[pidgezero_one]

I'm all for trolling if it's actually clever

unfortunately it very rarely is

yeah, i agree. I feel very lucky to be such a clever guy

this is the greatest post i have ever seen on swf.

i please to aim if u know what i mean

 

[ぱみゅ]

who would've thought this thread would be good and filled with great posts without all the Tier List discusions?