Official BBR Tier List v7

[DMG]

Hey Trela I see you! TALK ABOUT POKEMANS

 

[SoulPech]

Thank you for making this punny joke. I've only heard it 9823498789123467834568948902907124073298743294798 times before. My mind feels refreshed again. Thank you.

glad I could refresh your haunting memories ^^

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Someone play against me in pokemon online. I'm the best!!!!

 

[Luco]

I guess GnW suffers from the problem of 'I know he's gonna wanna get in those smashes, i'll just play campy and mid/long range all day...'

That's just an example. I just mean, his playstyle is very obvious I guess and can be pretty easily predictable.

That said I still find him annoying as heck to deal with. ><

 

[Peachy-Desu]

I mean, I understand hes saying it couldve been given a chance, but like you just said, Mewtwo has around 15 viable sets in OU. Take a Poke with higher base stats than every other OU, a Poke with over a dozen options, and a Poke that can literally run a set on almost every position on a team, and its blatantly obvious that OU would revolve all around countering Mewtwo. While its true, you can counter Mewtwo, Mewtwo is WAY harder to counter than any OU due to his plethora of options. So while Mewtwo could in fact be beat in OU, the meta game would be waaaay too focused on Mewtwo to make it a logical choice. So yes, while it IS an opinion, its a flawed opinion.

This sounds familiar... why is MK legal again?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

This sounds familiar... why is MK legal again?

But Zubat sucks and MK is sorta like Zubat.


Oh Grim i see you there Jigglypuff is Jigglypuff and is viable in no tier.

 

[Z'zgashi]

This sounds familiar... why is MK legal again?

Because MK cant even win Apex.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Because MK cant even win Apex.

Your logic is bad and you should feel bad.

By that logic, Parasect > most of Ubers

I mean hey, Theorymon used to dominate with him



If the meta revolves around something to a point people claim that the tier list should revolve around that and ONLY that matchup, AND have a very real argument... There might just be a problem. It's like DP Garchomp - and yes, i was pro-ban.

Oh or everyone's favourite memories, the day Manaphy was allowed in OU for a week. THAT went well.
Or DPP Skymin :D
Do you remember Skymin?
I remember Skymin.
Skymin was the MK of the meta just after Platinum came out.
If you did not have AT LEAST 2 hard counters to it and made sure that you could save one as late as possible, you lost.
Pretty much automatically.
Keep in mind I played primarily hail stall during all of Gen 4 and i still believed all of those should have been banned.
Because y'know what? I had a team comp that logically should have hard countered Skymin to hell and back and it could STILL be effortless ripped through by it with one small misprediction. 120 base power STAB move with 80% chance of sharply lowering Special Defense and a STAB 60% flinch chance move with life orb and the ability to heal itslef... no there was nothing wrong with this. It did not cause the entire metagame to revolve around it AT ALL.

 

[Aaven]

Yeah I think it's almost a given that ZSS and possibly Marth (honestly not sure with him) will rise, ICs might rise but tournament success has been kinda eh lately so I dunno.

But in answer to your question, yes they are working on a tier list v8, just not before they do a MU chart v3 which is currently being worked on now.

Thanks I appreciate the response.

Hearing that a MU Chart v3 is in the works is icing on the cake, great news.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Because MK cant even win Apex.

I can guarantee that had we not designed a ruleset designed mostly to break his stubby little legs, he would have. Easily.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I can guarantee that had we not designed a ruleset designed mostly to break his stubby little legs, he would have. Easily.

Have i ever told you i love you SFP?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Have i ever told you i love you SFP?

I'm controversial.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

DMG, I understand and accept / respect your points. We have different points of view on this matter. You think the fact that Mewtwo can run 15 different sets means he is too strong for OU. I think the fact that almost every role can be played better by another Pokemon means that he is potentially acceptable. Maybe you're right, maybe not. There is probably no right or wrong here but most people would agree with you anyway. I think even if every team had a Mewtwo, that alone wouldn't mean that it has to be banned. A lot of people will disagree though.

But to conclude to thing with Jirachi: Jirachi has a couple of practical advantages over Mewtwo. The most important is that it has better defensive type coverage which gives better opportunites to switch it in, especially against physical attacks. In a metagame that favors physical sweepers that's worth something. Despite Jirachi being a special sweeper there is actually no special tank that counters it. Its strongest standard-counters are actually physical tanks [Claydol, Steelix] and a Choice-Band sweeper [Dugtrio] and it completely counters the standard tank line-up of SkarmBliss + Water Tank [usually Suicune] that most teams ran in those days. I definitely think that Jirachi had a profound impact on the metagame that improved the game for the better [although a lot of people felt that Jirachi shouldn't have been lega]l. I think Mewtwo could have potentially been the same because it would have broken the omnipresence of Tyranitar + Zapdos/Jirachi sweeper line-up. Too much for the good of the metagame? I'm not convinced.

People who think I "lost" this argument are silly, especially since they probably don't even understand the 386 metagame well enough to comment.

Jebus, you're right that Shedinja can mess up some uber teams. Keep in mind though, that even in uber teams Tyranitar wasn't a Pokemon you'd necessarily skip over. You'd definitely consider it a possible pick for your team. But it can definitely counter a lot of Mewtwo sets in the uber metagame. Funny how a crap Pokemon like Sheddy can become viable in a much tougher setting.

Shaya, we cool.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I can guarantee that had we not designed a ruleset designed mostly to break his stubby little legs, he would have. Easily.

If the ruleset broke his legs successfully, what's the need for a full ban?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

If the ruleset broke his legs successfully, what's the need for a full ban?

Collateral damage? Nerfs to ledgehumpers like ROB and Pit? Stages good for other characters that are banned because they favor MK too strongly?

That assumption only works if MK is the only character in the game.

 

[pidgezero_one]

RIP brinstar my fave ness stage

 

[SaveMeJebus]

This sounds familiar... why is MK legal again?

Because Brawl only has 37 characters

 

[Blacknight99923]

Because Brawl only has 37 characters

Jebus sometimes I get your point of view but like

WHAT THE ****?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Jebus sometimes I get your point of view but like

WHAT THE ****?

I can't wait for SWF to have the "Like" option.

 

[Dekillsage]

Mk didn't win apex.... Lets forget that every single match in top 8 except salem vs mikeneko had MK in it

 

[PK Gaming]

damn

i'm kicking myself for missing the Pokemon talk

**** mewtwo, he's a tool anyway. we should talk about adding mew to the ADV OU metagame. i've talked to some ADV players, and while most of them scoff at the idea of testing mew (its impossible to kill) some of them are actually interested in giving it a shot. though i think those are just words, i don't think mew will ever get a test, since nobody wants to change the way ADV is played.

but still mew in ADV OU... a man can dream ♪

Skymin was the MK of the meta just after Platinum came out.

We tested Skymin in BW. It got a unanimous (100%) ban, everyone hated that. Playing against it was a practice in futility. If MK is even half as good as Skymin was... I feel bad for you guys, I really do

 

[SaveMeJebus]

He is comparing a game that has 500+ Pokemon to a game that only has 37 characters. Think about it

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Actually they were taking about the 386 metagame. This doesn't really contradict your point but I thought I would correct you...

 

[Iota]

Majority of those pokemon are rather irrelevant if we're talking about OU though

 

[da K.I.D.]

In the current topic i would guess that theres only really about 60-70 characters that matter, with about 10-15 getting added in each gen. Thats a rough estimate tho

 

[SaveMeJebus]

It's still 60 compared to about 9 tournament viable characters

 

[Iota]

Comparing pokemon's tier system to brawl is stupid anyway. Their battle styles are completely different.

Also how do you define tournament viable Jebus?

 

[Delta-cod]

Yeah, but 60 out of how many?

9/37 is pretty good, lol.

 

[Iota]

60 out of 389 pokemon. 60 is probably an overestimation too. OU only has 30 in R/S and there are probably only like...10-15 pokemon in the other tiers that are relevant.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

**** mewtwo, he's a tool anyway.

Well **** you too!

 

[Iota]

Statistics wise, 9/37 is more viable characters in the ratio than 60/389 by .09 lol

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Statistics wise, 9/37 is more viable characters in the ratio than 60/389 by .09 lol

Boom.

10char

 

[Delta-cod]

Statistics wise, 9/37 is more viable characters in the ratio than 60/389 by .09 lol

That's what I was getting at.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

60 out of 389 pokemon. 60 is probably an overestimation too. OU only has 30 in R/S and there are probably only like...10-15 pokemon in the other tiers that are relevant.

It's more if you count BL. And its more like 7 for brawl if you only count characters that have won nationals

 

[Iota]

Wouldn't we end up excluding a good amount of BL/OU if we counted only pokemon that won nationals though? I would think it would still end up being a lower number percentage wise than brawl.

I'd love to argue this further by my knowledge of R/S is very limited when it comes to usage percentages and W/L stuff.

 

[PK Gaming]

Yeah, but 60 out of how many?

9/37 is pretty good, lol.

Is it really? In comparison to other games like SSF4 and UMvC3 that's kind of kind of weak...

Didn't melee have way more viable characters? (not trying to dump on brawl btw, 9 out of 37 seems awfully small)

 

[Iota]

Melee has like 7-12 characters that are tourney viable. Brawl probably has a bit more than 9 that are viable. Regardless, melee has more characters viable when you consider that it has less characters.

 

[DMG]

Melee also overall had a better environment for High/Mid/Low tier characters to make a comeback, even despite some of Sheik's MU's vs them.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

What does "viable" mean in melee?

Fox, Falco, Sheik, Puff, Peach, and probably Marth and CF are "viable" in the same way Brawl's 9 characters are "viable." >_>

I don't pay much attention to the melee scene but I do check to see who wins big tournaments and the selection of characters that can do it in Melee seems a little smaller, not bigger, and certainly doesn't contain twelve characters.

Plus, a lot of top melee players use more than one character to cover bad match-ups or match-ups they don't like. Single-character heroes seem a little less common.

 

[Life]

Don't forget that in Pokemon, you need six viable characters to have a viable team, not just one.