Official BBR Tier List v7

[SaveMeJebus]

The way I see it, if someone wants to use weedle in OU, they can, just like anyone can choose to use Ganondorf. So it should really be 386 (- Ubers) compared to 37

 

[Delta-cod]

In that case, we still have equal viability.

(386-Ubers)/(386-Ubers) = 1 = 37/37

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Minus Ubers

 

[Z'zgashi]

...He has it as 386-Ubers, as in 386 minus Ubers...

Derp

 

[Life]

Ganondorf is way more viable than Weedle tho.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yea. Somebody who is decent with ganon can beat somebody who's not good with mk. But somebody who isn't great at pokemon, but has a solid team, isn't gonna lose to a guy who's trying to use weedle, no matter how good he is...

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Baton pass

but seriously, having one weedle doesn't mean having a team of weedle

 

[PK Gaming]

Melee also overall had a better environment for High/Mid/Low tier characters to make a comeback, even despite some of Sheik's MU's vs them.

let's hope that smash 4 is the same way in that regard

mid / low tiers are inevitible, but i want them to put a fight this time

 

[Tesh]

Doesn't pokemon ban a bunch of characters? 9/37 is generous for Brawl and banning the top <10% would increase viability by alot.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Doesn't pokemon ban a bunch of characters? 9/37 is generous for Brawl and banning the top <10% would increase viability by alot.

Ban the top 10 percent. Sooooo.. ban metaknight?

 

[ぱみゅ]

plus ICs and Olimar.
I'd be 100% for that.

 

[| Big D |]

#freeiceclimbers

 

[DeLux]

Why would you ban the 9th or 10th best character in the game?

 

[Dekillsage]

A couple of people tend to pair up ics and olimar with mk... why lol. They're not even close.

 

[DeLux]

Yea, both Olimars and ICs are bad

 

[Tesh]

Ban the top 10 percent. Sooooo.. ban metaknight?

A couple of people tend to pair up ics and olimar with mk... why lol. They're not even close.

Yea, both Olimars and ICs are bad

Its not that they are on the same level as MK, its just that ICs/Olimar are easily bigger hype killers and damage viability more without MK gimping them left and right. Unlike MK with his variety of overpowered nonsense, ICs and Olimar promote camping a very small pool of safe options (Olimar embodies this and ICs make sure everyone else follows when fighting them).

 

[Life]

Oli and ICs are only so common though because they have good MK matchups.

 

[Shaya]

They also have pretty good mus with a lot of everyone.

 

[Tesh]

Oli and ICs are only so common though because they have good MK matchups.

They aren't really even that common.... They are pretty rare at top level actually.

 

[| Big D |]

Marth has pretty good MUs vs everyone, except for Dedede.

 

[DeLux]

ICs and Olimar kinda get pooped on by MK lol

 

[PK Gaming]

Ban the top 10 percent. Sooooo.. ban metaknight?

nooo

we ban the broken ****, we don't ban things that are "good" or even things that are REALLY good

if smash were pokemon, MK would be banned in a heartbeat. no LGL or stage ban, just a flat ban.

i don't we'd ban the ICs because (to my knowledge) they're manageable. cheesy, but manageable.

 

[Dekillsage]

Its not that they are on the same level as MK, its just that ICs/Olimar are easily bigger hype killers and damage viability more without MK gimping them left and right. Unlike MK with his variety of overpowered nonsense, ICs and Olimar promote camping a very small pool of safe options (Olimar embodies this and ICs make sure everyone else follows when fighting them).

Bigger hype killers? My mind is blown. I guess 7 minute MK dittos are more exciting, especially when most of the match is them not even hitting each other. Both ICs and Olimar have weaknesses that can be exploited and the only character I see camping Olimar and Ics is metaknight. >_>

Oli and ICs are only so common though because they have good MK matchups.

We have 2 top players for both olimar and ice climbers. Mk wins both match ups, free.

They also have pretty good mus with a lot of everyone.

They're top tiers. That's what top tiers do lol

Early apologies for my super salty sounding posts

 

[ぱみゅ]

oh boy here we go.
"OMG MK is broken whatsoever, there's nothing anybody can do ever against him"

 

[Dekillsage]

MK is a bull**** character who ruins this game. You can say MK is beatable all you want, but look at the tournament results in Ny/NJ + Apex. Every top 8 match at apex had MK (excluding one) and I don't even remember the last time there wasn't a double Mk grand finals in my region. Anyone who thinks other characters even come close to being as good as MK or has a good match up vs him is drunk. This doesn't even include doubles, where almost every team NEEDS MK in order to be competitive.

 

[Tesh]

Marth has pretty good MUs vs everyone, except for Dedede.

Cept for him losing to and going even with sooooooo many characters below him compared to MK. The same way you see MK mains suffer with various personal matchups that are 0 or +1 for MK, you will see Marth truly struggle to dominate vs the many characters that give him trouble.

He would probably still wind up being good just in theory but not results.

MK kills hype less because he doesn't 100% of the time force that "Camp as hard as possible" style all the time. Especially with an LGL. Olimar does nothing but camp and ICs forces people to camp all day. MK dittos ARE more interesting than watching either of these characters.

 

[Dekillsage]

Try watching Mk dittos more. Watch the ones at apex, the ones on keitaro's channel. Tell me if its actually interesting or if you thought it was because they're always throwing out attacks. Also like I said, no one camps Ice Climbers except Metaknight.(they don't even have too). If you watch olimar matches you see them constantly attacking and putting on the pressure.... its a lot more calculated and interesting. I know its unfair to tell you whats hype or not... but are you guys really still hype that one character dominates this game?

 

[Tesh]

lol @ olimar being calculated. throwing random pikmin at people and upsmashing OoS everything is more calculated than spacing sword attacks? olimar isnt even functional as an aggressive character 99% of the time.

No one camps ICs? Really!!? Who are these people not camping ICs?

 

[Iota]

So, you're saying that Wario, Pit, Falco, etc. don't camp vs ICs and don't even need to anyway? That's what I got from your post Dekill.

 

[Espy Rose]

MK has no 0 MUs, Tesh.

 

[Dekillsage]

How about Snake, Peach, Rob, MK(if he chooses)? How about Olimar who goes to town on Nana if they ever get separated?
Spacing sword attacks... Ftilt and Dtilt are ****ing frame traps for gods sake. When does MK have to space something when shuttle loop does it for him? Of if you're above them and they uair uair uair or uair nado? It's hard to appreciate the time a MK player puts into his character, I'm sorry.

Also Olimars moves are slow. His grab is like 11 frames? He doesn't even have a good roll lol. Olimar players are consistently managing their pikmin order, picking their spots to wall an opponent or make their approach. It's just... smart and extremely unappreciated.

 

[Tesh]

MK has no 0 MUs, Tesh.

Salem

 

[Z'zgashi]

Salem

Thats not an even match up for MK...

Its a negative match up.

 

[Espy Rose]

No, it's just a 0 for M2K.

 

[Tesh]

if its 0 for M2K, it must be -1 for the other MKs cuz they got stomped a bit harder I'd say.

 

[Espy Rose]

I won't disagree there.
MKs are lazy at learning non-top tier MUs.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

M2k plays salem a lot so he knew the match-up. If I was in his shoes, there were a few thigns I would have done differently, but he played... almost correctly. He didn't try to abuse tornado at neutral positions, etc. He needs to learn how to edgeguard ZSS, once or twice I thought for sure salem was dead and he lived. He also needs to ramp up his tilt game a little. But tbh I think Salem would have won the set regardless, he made a few mistakes in the MU too.

Too many of you guys don't see the difference between getting outplayed and playing something wrong. If someone is playing better than you, it can be difficult to even get into positions that give you those kinds of advantages.

If I play m2k, it doesn't matter if I "play the match-up correctly," I'm still going to lose. LOL

 

[Grim Tuesday]

M2K almost solely used Up-B and Tornado.

That's all I'm going to say.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

M2K almost solely used Up-B and Tornado.

That's all I'm going to say.

Were you even watching? >_>

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Obviously hyperbole, but M2K still used way too much tornado and SL in neutral

I think that's the main thing I mean both characters punish pretty evenly (ZSS probably has the advantage in that respect, but it's not a huuuuge deficit at all) but M2K wasn't getting the opportunities he deserved

and tornado and SL DO work really well against ZSS, that's why he didn't get wrecked, he just didn't use all of his options