Official BBR Tier List v7

[Iota]

D3's moveset doesn't seem bad outside of like jab, Nair, and his smashes. I wouldn't quite put it in the top 5 though.

 

[Luco]

And funnily enough I enjoy DDD's Nair.

I must be crazy. D:

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Remember in 2008 when scrubs complained about Dedede and you were like "don't get grabbed?"

Weird, looks like people finally took that advice and Dedede isn't that great now.

have i ever told you how much i love you?


iota, please. there's a reason Dedede struggles against every character he can't chaingrab except puff and zelda, the former being arguably the worst character in the game.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Is it because he's ugly? It's because he's ugly isn't it.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

have i ever told you how much i love you?


iota, please. there's a reason Dedede struggles against every character he can't chaingrab except puff and zelda, the former being arguably the worst character in the game.

There aren't many characters that don't struggle with mk, olimar, and falco... I believe the ddd boards also dont think he has as much trouble as the mu chart says with fox or zamus.

 

[Coney]

ddd is a good character, he's just hard to play

 

[Neon!]

Which specials would he have? Cuz DK's recovery sucks, but I would live to have spindash to up b. Being able to run past people then use DK's Fsmash...

His Fsmash isn't a great move, but it does compliment his moveset better than quicker, more versatile smashes that have less range. It gives him a good answer in situations where quick disjointed attacks might leave him in a sort of "checkmate". Its so slow it requires a read to use, but its better than squirtle's or something.

I more or less meant give sonic all of DK's tilts, smashes and aerials but let sonic keep his specials except for neutral-b.

Actually, Sonic with just DK's dsmash would make him a terrifying character.

 

[Life]

Sonic is a middle-of-mid-tier character that is only barely not a top-tier character.

Like seriously. Sonic with Fox's usmash. Imagine that.

 

[Shaky]

Ness is a middle-of-mid-tier character that is only barely not a top-tier character.

Like seriously. Ness with DK's grab release animation . Imagine that.

Actually he's suck anyway.

 

[infiniteV115]

Ness is indeed suck.

Imagine Sonic with DK's usmash. Running usmash would be devastating.

 

[Baskerville]

Like seriously. Everyone with MK's moveset. Imagine that.

 

[infiniteV115]

Falcon with MK's moveset would be ridiculous.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

See, this is like my half sober musings last weekend where a friend of mine and I discussed Brawl where everyone had G&W UpB.

 

[bubbaking]

/dededemain

Lolz, I main DDD too!

A mobile dedede would be a jigglypuff/sheik augustus molester love child.
The melee iterations of both, obviously.

Exactly.

in case people haven't realized, it's more than possible to take these things beyond simple theorycraft, and when something about my main is said that is that wrong (lol at the idea of anything other than Dedede's BAir, UTilt, DTilt, or CG being objectively "good" in the context of Brawl) there's not much else that can be done but actually edit Dedede to give him high mobility to prove said person wrong.

His dtilt is great, his throws other than dthrow are good, and his aerials are nice. What holds him back is mobility. One easy example is his fair. His fair is way better than fairs of similar damage and power, like DK's and Snake's fairs. What holds it back is DDD's crappy air mobility while fairing. If DDD had at least twice the ground and air mobility that he has now, his moveset would be spectacular.

Just think if Dedede didn't have a crazy grab range and a chaingrab. You could counter him by just shielding everything. Dumb character design is dumb.

It's not that dumb because his huge grab range actually makes sense. Do you see how far DDD leans over when he whiffs a grab? With his huge frame and the fact that he stretches out like that, a long grab range makes perfect sense. Now, the CG IS bad design, but the grab range isn't. You know what else is bad design? The fact that DDD is somehow lighter than Snake.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Gheb.

Mewtwo.

Never forget.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Somehow gehb has taken control of this thread with his absence...

I feel like ddd's down air would be way better with better air mobility. Kinda like wario or jiggly puff. Probably not as good but way better than currently.

 

[infiniteV115]

DDD's moves + Wario's air mobility is definitely a top tier combination lmao

 

[bubbaking]

^^^^Most definitely.

DDD's dair + Wario's mobility would be way better than Wario's and Jigglypuff's dairs because DDD would be able to follow their SDI and he would be able to reliably combo out of it at low-mid %'s.

D3's moveset doesn't seem bad outside of like jab, Nair, and his smashes. I wouldn't quite put it in the top 5 though.

To be fair, the conversation never started off as "Who has the best 5 movesets?" It started off as "Who has the 7 best single moves?" I'm still baffled at how DDD didn't end up on the list from just dthrow, let alone everything else. This was the original statement:

Lemme tell you some characters with spectacular moves.

1. MK
2. Luigi
3. Marth
4. Falco
5. DK
6. Ness
7. Rob

These aren't in order. But for real Luigi has like one of the best movesets in the game, if he could move a little faster he would be insane.

And funnily enough I enjoy DDD's Nair.

I must be crazy. D:

You're not. DDD's nair is actually pretty good. It has low startup and lag, a hitbox that covers his entire body, and some interesting uses. At low-mid %'s, nair combos into utilt for some really good damage. It also combos into grab in some situations, too. Also, DDD's nair can apparently go through Snake's Mortar so that's a really stellar use for it. Even in doubles, DDD's nair can be used to save your teammate since it hits him weakly upwards.

iota, please. there's a reason Dedede struggles against every character he can't chaingrab except puff and zelda, the former being arguably the worst character in the game.

An old mentality, IMO, that really needs to go. There are plenty of chars other than Jiggs and Zelda whom DDD can't CG that he doesn't "struggle against," such as Fox, Sheik, and Kirby.

 

[Mr-R]

ddd is a good character, he's just hard to play

Yes, it must be really hard to chaingrab people across the stage *grabs popcorn*

 

[Gardex]

Hey, chaingrabbing Marth is hard

 

[bubbaking]

Indeed it is. One screw up and we eat a DS to the face. Besides, actually landing the grab is the hard part against most chars.

 

[Espy Rose]

It must be so hard with that tiny little grab range of yours.

 

[infiniteV115]

Indeed it is. One screw up and we eat a DS to the face. Besides, actually landing the grab is the hard part against most chars.

If you know the Marth is mashing upB, why are you going for the regrab? O.o

 

[Seagull Joe]

not first yet?

 

[Iota]

Jiggz will never be first. Wario with D3 fair and dair would be amazing.

 

[| Big D |]

All Marth has to do is walk away and he will get out if we mess up, not to mention a free punish without ever putting himself at risk.

Don't mess up.

 

[bubbaking]

If you know the Marth is mashing upB, why are you going for the regrab? O.o

Because you don't know that you messed up the guaranteed regrab (it's a CG, remember) until you mess up.

It must be so hard with that tiny little grab range of yours.

You make comments about how DDD is slow and can't catch anything, like Sonic and Yoshi, and then say that our big grab range is supposed to make catching people easy?

 

[SoulPech]

not first yet?

Why is Jigglypuff not first? Joe knows what's up.

 

[Espy Rose]

Don't be dense, Bubba.
Sonic and Yoshi are only 2 out of 39 characters.

 

[Spelt]

Math: Brought to you by Espy

 

[Espy Rose]

I missed you too Spelt.

 

[bubbaking]

Don't be dense, Bubba.
Sonic and Yoshi are only 2 out of 39 characters.

All those characters are still faster than DDD! I don't see him having an easier time catching Jiggs or Kirby or Fox.

Edit: Once we grab you, we destroy you, but getting the grab is still fairly difficult. If it wasn't, we wouldn't opt to bair and tilt as much as we do and would just go for the grab. every. single. time.

 

[Espy Rose]

They're all still slower than Sonic and Yoshi. Most of them by a significant margin.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Because you don't know that you messed up the guaranteed regrab (it's a CG, remember) until you mess up.

I thought you guys would just bait it like you do spotdodge mashers. like, purposely drop the grab and shield the up-b for a free hard punish.

 

[infiniteV115]

Because you don't know that you messed up the guaranteed regrab (it's a CG, remember) until you mess up.

You completely missed the point of my question lol

 

[bubbaking]

I thought you guys would just bait it like you do spotdodge mashers. like, purposely drop the grab and shield the up-b for a free hard punish.

Well, sure, DDD could do that if he knows the Marth is mashing upB, but if he doesn't, and the Marth IS mashing it, then we get hit if we miss.

You completely missed the point of my question lol

What was the point?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm pretty sure DDD could do an option select kinda thing at lower %s where he runs forward and presses grab but during the grab he DIs down and away.

Then if Marth up-bs he could tech in place and punish.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I'm pretty sure DDD could do an option select kinda thing at lower %s where he runs forward and presses grab but during the grab he DIs down and away.

Then if Marth up-bs he could tech in place and punish.

That doesn't happen.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm aware of this.

But it could, and I've done it before.

 

[Luco]

They're all still slower than Sonic and Yoshi. Most of them by a significant margin.

Jiggz and kirby, yeah... but fox is not slower than Yoshi, Espy. In fact, there are like 10 chars that are faster than yoshi, though obviously everyone's below sonic.

Running Speed

1. Sonic (3.50)
2. Captain Falcon (2.18)
3. Fox (2.08)
4. Zero Suit Samus (1.93)
5. Sheik (1.92)
6. Meta Knight (1.85)
7. Charizard (1.80)
8. Pikachu (1.76)
9. Diddy Kong (1.72)
10. Marth (1.70)
11. Yoshi (1.68)
12. Toon Link (1.65)
13. Donkey Kong (1.62)
14. Pit (1.58)
15. Mr. Game & Watch (1.55)
16. Bowser (1.53)
17. Ivysaur (1.50)
17. Lucas (1.50)
17. Mario (1.50)
17. R.O.B. (1.50)
21. Samus (1.45)
22. Falco (1.43)
23. Lucario (1.41)
24. Olimar (1.40)
24. Wolf (1.40)
26. Ice Climbers (1.39)
26. Ness (1.39)
28. Ike (1.37)
28. Kirby (1.37)
28. Squirtle (1.37)
31. Peach (1.35)
31. Snake (1.35)
31. Wario (1.35)
34. Luigi (1.34)
35. Link (1.33)
36. King Dedede (1.22)
36. Zelda (1.22)
38. Ganondorf (1.16)
39. Jigglypuff (1.10)