Official BBR Tier List v7

[Supreme Dirt]

Jebus you simply don't seem to understand.

In the eyes of pretty much everyone, Apex is THE tournament to win.
Every other tournament, every other win? Nice and w/e.
But Apex is the ultimate test of skill, where virtually every player in NA worth anything generally wants to be to prove themselves.


And Espy as a member of the Stage Rage Crew you know how I feel on stage legality.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

So do the tournaments I mentioned yet they don't get as many attendants

You ignored one half of my post.

How unlike you.

 

[Espy Rose]

I've always felt that way about PS2, so yeah.

I miss Pictochat and Port Town...

 

[SaveMeJebus]

You ignored one half of my post.

How unlike you.

I'm not too sure about Apex but Larry said something about not going to SRT when he found out most of the top players weren't going so it does happen. This would be the perfect time to make a poll

 

[Grim Tuesday]

We don't need to because everyone knows you're crazy, but if you want to, fire away.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I know I would rather attend an MK legal tournament featuring a well known international player than an MK banned tournament that attracts an extra 10 nobody's that may or may not stick around

 

[Juushichi]

Jebus at it again?

... Yep.

Hm.

I don't think people pay hundreds of dollars just to go play international players, especially when not many people will be able to play them in the first place.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You aren't really at a high enough level to value the Japanese over nairo, vinnie, ally, etc... Surely?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Jebus at it again?

... Yep.

Hm.

I don't think people pay hundreds of dollars just to go play international players, especially when not many people will be able to play them in the first place.

Why not? You really think everyone attending is there to win? I'm not saying all of them are there for that reason, but some of them are

@Grim, It's not about that. It's about playing someone you've never played before or may never get the chance to play again

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I think Jebus has a very valid point. You guys keep saying "APEX is the biggest tournament because it's the biggest tournament. It's our superbowl". But how'd it get to that status? What sets it apart from all the other major nationals? I think the fact that it's International, as opposed to just National, plays a pretty major role in that.

 

[pidgezero_one]

**** smashville

i love everything about animal crossing except that stage

 

[deepseadiva]

PS2 is also banned at Apex.

What is this terrible injustice.

You can ban MK. You can put ledge limits. You can even ban jank like Pictochat. Ok ok ok ok ok ok ok ok.

But PS2 banned is some ignorant *** ****.

 

[Cassio]

Strong and reasonable arguments exist for MK to be banned and unbanned. Im not sure why it cant just be left at that or why one side has be generalized and implied to be ignorant.

 

[Espy Rose]

What is that in response to?

 

[infiniteV115]

I think Jebus has a very valid point. You guys keep saying "APEX is the biggest tournament because it's the biggest tournament. It's our superbowl". But how'd it get to that status? What sets it apart from all the other major nationals? I think the fact that it's International, as opposed to just National, plays a pretty major role in that.

Plays a pretty major role in what? The fact that it has more attendants than other tournaments?

It got to that status because
-It features like 10 different games
-Has many more sponsors --> bigger pot
-The first Apex was a huge success, and AFAIK it didn't feature any non-NA players. Its success and hype are what lured more attendants into Apex 2010 (including non-NA attendants), and this was more or less repeated for Apex 2010 luring people into Apex 2012.
-It is hosted by a reputable host (kinda overlaps with the point above but not completely)
-It is hosted in NA's best region, so it provides incentive for the good players from regions like SoCal, Florida, Texas and parts of Canada (who want to face the NJ/NY monsters but don't want to travel to a local) to travel across the entire country.

 

[Cassio]

It was just a statement to the idea that there is a correct decision for the community on whether or not MK should be banned. The only issue ive ever seen is attempts to make a blanket decision on such a divisive issue.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I didn't say it was everything. I said it was a pretty major part. Apex gets bigger and better each time, and the international hype plays a role in that.

 

[deepseadiva]

It was just a statement to the idea that there is a correct decision for the community on whether or not MK should be banned. The only issue ive ever seen is attempts to make a blanket decision on such a divisive issue.

The division is: some tournaments are competitive, and some tournaments are for fun.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

The division is: some tournaments are competitive, and some tournaments are for fun.

MK isn't very fun.

Unless your intent of course was to condescend people for thinking bat should be banned.

In which case good show, your point was gotten across perfectly without furthering discussion in any way.

 

[| Big D |]

Fun is subjective.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Condescension is not.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Plays a pretty major role in what? The fact that it has more attendants than other tournaments?

It got to that status because
-It features like 10 different games
-Has many more sponsors --> bigger pot
-The first Apex was a huge success, and AFAIK it didn't feature any non-NA players. Its success and hype are what lured more attendants into Apex 2010 (including non-NA attendants), and this was more or less repeated for Apex 2010 luring people into Apex 2012.
-It is hosted by a reputable host (kinda overlaps with the point above but not completely)
-It is hosted in NA's best region, so it provides incentive for the good players from regions like SoCal, Florida, Texas and parts of Canada (who want to face the NJ/NY monsters but don't want to travel to a local) to travel across the entire country.

What does 10 different games have to do with the brawl entry?
Genesis 2 had a 2000$ guaranteed pot

 

[deepseadiva]

Some tournaments keep the game as intact as possible to achieve accuracy and foster top level competition. Others forgo this accuracy for "fun", "diversity", "attendance", etc.

One is not better than the other. No condescension.

But one has more competitive integrity. Da end.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

With the line of reasoning you're using Meno, there is 0 difference between banning a character and banning a stage.

If you're going to take the stance that banning a character reduces the competitive integrity of a game, you also must argue that banning stages reduces it in the same fashion.

 

[infiniteV115]

What does 10 different games have to do with the brawl entry?
Genesis 2 had a 2000$ guaranteed pot

People who, for example, play pokemon competitively but only play Brawl casually, would be willing to travel outside of their city/state to attend Apex, and also enter Brawl, but they wouldn't travel very far for just Brawl.

I'm doing exactly that (except in the reverse order) at Apex 2013; I'm travelling there mainly for Brawl and wouldn't attend if Brawl wasn't there, but I'm also entering pokemon.

Now apply this to 9 non-brawl games.

 

[deepseadiva]

With the line of reasoning you're using Meno, there is 0 difference between banning a character and banning a stage.

If you're going to take the stance that banning a character reduces the competitive integrity of a game, you also must argue that banning stages reduces it in the same fashion.

There isn't a difference. A piece of the game is a piece of the game.

Some of the pieces are broken and get in the way of result accuracy. Pictochat lowers accuracy. Items lower accuracy. Some argue MK lowers accuracy.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Apex:
The highest point; the point of culmination

Genesis:
An origin, creation, or beginning.


And that is the only reason why. And everything V115 said

 

[pidgezero_one]

speaking of pictochat, i remember joining competitive brawl as a kirby main right after picto got banned

sad face

 

[infiniteV115]

I love Pictochat (probably my favourite stage in the game...except for maybe Norfair) but I don't think it should be legal

 

[pidgezero_one]

it definitely shouldn't be legal, but stone glitch... ;_;

 

[da K.I.D.]

What does 10 different games have to do with the brawl entry?
Genesis 2 had a 2000$ guaranteed pot

rofl.

2000 for all the winners is chump change.
As i recall, Otori won 1500 himself from apex. and besides that, MLG was tossing 5th place more money than that.

speaking of pictochat, i remember joining competitive brawl as a kirby main right after picto got banned

sad face

I counterpicked pictochat for 2-3 years, and it was awesome.

sonics best stage by far. And then they banned it. trust me, youre better off not having experienced it than to have it taken away from you.

I love Pictochat (probably my favourite stage in the game...except for maybe Norfair) but I don't think it should be legal

I could still make a case for it to be legal.


But the fact of the matter is that theres really no excuse for there to be less than 10 legal stages in a brawl tournament. Also, starters and counterpics are stupid in this game, because, most of the "neutral" stages we have now are certain characters best stages and already polarize matchups.
Falco, Diddy, ICs, DDD on FD
Marth on battlefield.
and so on.

My last tournament was 13 stages, MK banned, and stage striking from all the legal stages. I saw game 1s happen on halberd, ps2(this stage is amazing btw) frigate, Delfino, I think I even saw a game one of a tournament match on Rainbow.

Point is, if Castle Siege is the most fair and neutral stage for a matchup, why cant you play it first? Its dumb. Starter stages dont fulfill the role of starter stages anymore.



I ranted on something that was completely unrelated.

Back to the point, MK ban is great. For those people that say, 'hey you wouldnt have won that tournament if mk was legal.' i see that exactly the same way as if someone were to say 'you wouldnt have beat me if I could had played with my teams partner and 2v1d you.' Yea, youre probably right, but thats stupid and not really fair, so why are you bringing it up?

 

[infiniteV115]

Otori won $3600 from singles and some more from doubles

Also, I approve getting rid of the starter/CP divide.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I want my PS2 dammit!

And my fav stage is probably Norfair.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Also, I approve getting rid of the starter/CP divide.

No joke, Rainbow Cruise as a starter is awesome. Thanks for that one, Dust Bowl IV.

edit:

I think I even saw a game one of a tournament match on Rainbow.

Hell yeah you did, I distinctly remember you cheering me on

 

[Espy Rose]

Otori won $3600 from singles and some more from doubles

Also, I approve getting rid of the starter/CP divide.

To further emphasize KID's point, 5th place at MLG paid $5,000.
I also approve of the stage pick KID mentioned. I dislike the Starter/CP malarky this community's TOs are so freakishly fond of.

 

[Xyro77]

Apex:
The highest point; the point of culmination

Genesis:
An origin, creation, or beginning.

You missed one, broski


HOBO:

 

[Naridax]

But the fact of the matter is that theres really no excuse for there to be less than 10 legal stages in a brawl tournament.

From what reasons does this "fact" stem?

Also, starters and counterpics are stupid in this game, because, most of the "neutral" stages we have now are certain characters best stages and already polarize matchups.
Falco, Diddy, ICs, DDD on FD
Marth on battlefield.
and so on.

Strike them. Ban them.

My last tournament was 13 stages, MK banned, and stage striking from all the legal stages. I saw game 1s happen on halberd, ps2(this stage is amazing btw) frigate, Delfino, I think I even saw a game one of a tournament match on Rainbow.

So? More stage variety ≠ better rule sets/tournaments.

Point is, if Castle Siege is the most fair and neutral stage for a matchup, why cant you play it first? Its dumb. Starter stages dont fulfill the role of starter stages anymore.

(One would first have to prove that Castle Siege is the most fair and neutral stage for a match-up, but you were speaking hypothetically.) If a starter stage is one of the most fair and neutral stages for a match-up, does that starter stage fulfill the role of a starter stage?

Back to the point, MK ban is great. For those people that say, 'hey you wouldnt have won that tournament if mk was legal.' i see that exactly the same way as if someone were to say 'you wouldnt have beat me if I could had played with my teams partner and 2v1d you.' Yea, youre probably right, but thats stupid and not really fair, so why are you bringing it up?

How do you make the jump from playing Meta Knight to playing with a partner against a single person?

 

[Peachy-Desu]

You missed one, broski


HOBO:

most Fav post on this thread for quite some time~

 

[Supreme Dirt]

most Fav post on this thread for quite some time~

My favourite xyro post in quite some time.


Which reminds me, Final Destination is a heavily unbalanced stage and shouldn't be a starter if we continue using the current outdated starter/cp system.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Why don't people just play MK-banned, SV-only tournaments?
It's apparently what everyone wants, and TOs allowing more stuff looks even hypocrite.