Official BBR Tier List v7

[#HBC | Joker]

It was also MK banned.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Wasnt it also the only mk banned one?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If MK were banned, I could go solo Puff in tournament.

I'm sure other low tier mains could say something similar. The other top tiers aren't as bad he is for character invalidation.

 

[infiniteV115]

Ryo got 5th, Shaky got 7th
Will also got 5th

Characters like Lucario, Toon Link, Peach, DDD, Ike (and to a lesser extent, DK Yoshi and Sonic) will become much more relevant, and stages like Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise (which are perfectly fine when MK is banned...hell even RC is fine with MK legal as long as there's at least 1 stage ban + Brinstar isn't legal)

 

[da K.I.D.]

People see a video of X beating one or two mks in tournament and try to mistakenly claim sonic is even with mk.

This happens often, because of what i touched on in Grims sig

 

[Uncle]

Having a seven characters at the top spots in a tourney is different then every event being another episode of "MK and friends show'

Plus, its objectively more fun

I agree that banning him is better for the game, no argument there. I just feel that the difference isn't tremendous. Banning MK doesn't even come close to being a magic bullet for Brawl's problems.

Wasn't there a Ness and Ike in top 5 at Whobo? :o

You are correct, but guess who they placed behind? ESAM, Ally, Gnes, and their top-tier mains. Business as usual.

If MK were banned, I could go solo Puff in tournament.

I'm sure other low tier mains could say something similar. The other top tiers aren't as bad he is for character invalidation.

I wish I could say the same for Bowser, but he gets invalidated by ICs and D3. MK is definitely not his worst MU. Hell, he's not the worst MU for quite a few characters like DK, G&W, Lucas, Falco, Pikachu, Wolf, Fox, Sheik, and Ness. I'm not taking this purely from the MU chart, either.

 

[Espy Rose]

No one is arguing that it'll be a huge problem solving thing though.

I'm glad you finally spouted that delicious short essay, Supermodel. People, especially TOs, NEED to read and understand what they're doing not only to their community, but the community that extends far beyond their own borders.

 

[Shaky]

Ryo got 5th, Shaky got 7th
Will also got 5th

Characters like Lucario, Toon Link, Peach, DDD, Ike (and to a lesser extent, DK Yoshi and Sonic) will become much more relevant, and stages like Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise (which are perfectly fine when MK is banned...hell even RC is fine with MK legal as long as there's at least 1 stage ban + Brinstar isn't legal)

So... why is Ness not one of the characters listed :'(

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

So... why is Ness not one of the characters listed :'(

Because MK isn't his biggest problem.

 

[infiniteV115]

Not necessarily that, but because I don't think MK directly affects Ness' viability much. Ness does fine against MK (I think so anyway), he has much bigger things to worry about in Snake, Marth, DDD and DK (and probably Wario too)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

MK is a big problem for almost everyone below him because (among other reasons) he can realistically beat you without any match-up experience.

 

[Myollnir]

MK totally invalidates PT, it's really sad.
Without MK, I could see PT jumping a few spots, since he does well against ICs, Olimar, Snake and some other viable characters (ZSS comes to my mind).
PT-Marth is definitely not impossible imo.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

MK is a big problem for almost everyone below him because (among other reasons) he can realistically beat you without any match-up experience.

If the MK has no experience, he can lose to pretty much any character that goes even with him and even some characters that slightly lose to him. Remember Ocean vs M2K?

 

[pidgezero_one]

Not necessarily that, but because I don't think MK directly affects Ness' viability much. Ness does fine against MK (I think so anyway), he has much bigger things to worry about in Snake, Marth, DDD and DK (and probably Wario too)

This is exactly why I voted on the MK ban at Show Me The Poutine 2 with a coin toss.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yea, saying MK doesn't need MU exp to beat people is pretty unrealistic. M2K is a pretty solid all around player, and he loses weird MUs all the time simply because he's unfamiliar with them. Then he studies the **** out of that MU to avoid a repeat.

 

[Dre89]

People are saying that even if MK got banned, that the high tiers will just replace him and dominate, but the difference is that all those characters have weaknesses and bad stages.

 

[infiniteV115]

Meaning that when MK is banned, players are more likely to learn how to play multiple characters (the ideal for a balanced multi-game character)

Whereas with MK legal it's more or less you drop your main so that you can start maining MK.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

It doesn't work with a game like Smash though since the CP system becomes way too strong

 

[Sinister Slush]

I held it up to a public vote, and the majority voted to ban MK.
Meekspeedy tried to pressure me into unbanning him by threatening the attendance of himself and TOJoe. I kept him banned because making two salty *****s less salty wasnt worth the enjoyment/experience of everyone else there.

He also looked for ways to trash talk my event after the fact even though he didnt even attend to know what he was talking about.


Moral of the story?
*****s will do some reeeeeaall grimey ish to keep mk unbanned

What a sleeze lol. Bad enough he scurries to MK when he isn't confident in his Sonic.
Also, while I agree with MK banned alot of decent characters would start getting better results... as mentioned a page or two back still Olimar ICs and Falco that MK mains can quickly switch to and still get Top 4 most likely after a week or two of practice.

It doesn't work with a game like Smash though since the CP system becomes way too strong

Oh... you mean like people choosing Smashville 99% of the time for first stage, while 2nd game is either BF FD or some counterpick like Delfino or Frigate to time them out/gimp them in some stupid way?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

If stages really are that polar, maybe players should be given more than one stage ban in tournament.

Radical, yes, I know. I mean I myself was shocked to find out that stages other than Smashville exist.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Oh... you mean like people choosing Smashville 99% of the time for first stage, while 2nd game is either BF FD or some counterpick like Delfino or Frigate to time them out/gimp them in some stupid way?

What's wrong with that? Players strike down to that stage and the Apex ruleset has stages like delphino and Frigate banned

 

[Dre89]

The thing is it doesn't even matter how reasonable what the community wants is. Even if the majority of the community wanted golden hammers legal, it should be legalised. This is a game played for fun, where all the money in the game comes from the community itself.

The community isn't obliged to to maintain something that only a minority want, because the community only serves itself.

It's actually really ridiculous for a minority to tell the majority to play the game the way they want them too, even if it means less enjoyment for the majority of the community.

 

[infiniteV115]

Even under the URS, the amount of hard CPing that takes place (with regards to stages) among top tiers and high tiers is minimal.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

The thing is it doesn't even matter how reasonable what the community wants is. Even if the majority of the community wanted golden hammers legal, it should be legalised. Because this is a game played for fun, where all the money in the game comes from the community itself.

The community isn't obliged to to maintain something that only a minority want, because the community only serves itself.

It's actually really ridiculous for a minority to tell the majority to play the game the way they want them too, even if it means less enjoyment for the majority of the community.

The thing is that its mostly just North America that wants him banned. Banning him would hurt International events like Apex

 

[Supreme Dirt]

The thing is that its mostly just North America that wants him banned. Banning him would hurt International events like Apex

International players make up a significantly smaller portion of Apex attendees than NA players.
As well, i can guarantee there will be people who go to Apex who normally wouldn't bother with bat legal.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

International players make up a significantly smaller portion of Apex attendees than NA players.
As well, i can guarantee there will be people who go to Apex who normally wouldn't bother with bat legal.

Players don't go to tournaments like Apex to play NA players. That's what nationals are for. They go there to play against players they've never played before or may never have a chance to play again.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

you're saying that if europe and japan bailed on Apex, nobody would go?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

you're saying that if europe and japan bailed on Apex, nobody would go?

No, but a hell of a lot less players would attend

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That's probably not true at all.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

That's probably not true at all.

Then explain why Apex gets more attendants than any other National tournament

 

[Supreme Dirt]

because it's APEX

Apex is the closest thing the smash scene has to a championship.

 

[Sinister Slush]

If stages really are that polar, maybe players should be given more than one stage ban in tournament.

Radical, yes, I know. I mean I myself was shocked to find out that stages other than Smashville exist.

Let's go back to the days we had 7 stages to strike while having counterpicks like Green Greens. That'll solve the fact we only play on 4 stages... maybe 6 during the entire tournament.

Spoiler

PS2 legal please.

What's wrong with that? Players strike down to that stage and the Apex ruleset has stages like delphino and Frigate banned

Nothing, but I'm mostly saying most of the time Stages aren't really the problem. It's when someone switches from their main to MK or some better character then chooses a bad stage for your character or vice versa... good stage for their new character.

Edit:

because it's APEX

Apex is the closest thing the smash scene has to a championship.

I've always thought people have been treating APEX like the new MLG... except 1-8th place don't get thousands of bucks.

 

[infiniteV115]

The Apex Ruleset has both Delfino and Frigate legal you know

 

[SaveMeJebus]

because it's APEX

Apex is the closest thing the smash scene has to a championship.

We also have Genesis SKTAR and the Clash tournaments. It also doesn't explain why Alex Strife goes through so much just to get a couple of international players so his events

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yea I was confused. Apex ruleset is like, identical to URS in every way. The only changes are Mk legal, RC/Brinstar banned.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Because it's got a large pot and good reputation. Find me one person who only went to Apex for international players.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

what doesn't explain why Jebus?
I simply don't see the point you're trying to make, if there in fact is one.

 

[infiniteV115]

PS2 is also banned at Apex.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Because it's got a large pot and good reputation. Find me one person who only went to Apex for international players.

So do the tournaments I mentioned yet they don't get as many attendants

 

[Espy Rose]

PS2 being banned is just ridiculous as well. It really isn't as bad as whiners make it out to be.