Official BBR Tier List v7

[Ussi]

Doesn't lose just as bad as to and gets **** on completely by ?

Not arguing 's validity. Just saying he isn't as good as , but I'm sure most people agree with that lol.


Lie vs Stingers. Then again...Have you lost to/beat Stingers?

ROB loses to Falco and ZSS worse than Ike
Ike loses to IC worse than ROB
rest of high tier is same MU

 

[Seagull Joe]

From what I have seen, stomps . San is just a god...

 

[Ussi]

Ryo is no slouch at the Falco MU either

 

[Seagull Joe]

Ryo is no slouch at the Falco MU either

His record with Xaltis is like 0-10 if I recall correctly.

 

[Z'zgashi]

lol youre acting like rob would cp anything other than neutrals (i mean sure he could but i really doubt any stage would change the MU enough for it to have a different ratio/whatever there)

...Does Frigate mean anything to you?

 

[C.J.]

Only recently. He used to be terrible at it tbh . Even now, if I were to judge the MU from Ryo vs falco, I could almost understand seagull. But Ryo is getting a lot better at it and with San playing the MU, it seems 6:4 at WORST for Ike.

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't see how could +3 anyone outside of LT's.

Then maybe you should open your eyes.
Besides, I never said it was definitely -3.

Also added to the fact that there is no way she's as bad as / for .

Yeah, I'm not arguing that.
What she DOES have over DDD/MK in this MU is an infinite on ROB. Infinites tend to matter these days, you know.

And she juggles him for days. It's embarrassing how badly he gets juggled.

 

[Steam]

I honestly think Lucario is even or has a +1 on DK. once Lucario gets momentum DK gets taken for a serious ride.

 

[Kuro~]

Ike does better against olimar. About the same vs dedede.


Edit: Falco does NOT stomp ike rofl.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I play san with falco a lot, and while i dont have the best falco out there, based on the situational control that ike can exert at times, falco only really has a +1 over ike.

 

[C.J.]

Also, for the record, Ryo believes ddd to be 55:45 at worst

 

[Kuro~]

^^^^ yea to both.


Edit: For another record he believes ike wins vs ICs

 

[Seagull Joe]

Also, for the record, Ryo believes ddd to be 55:45 at worst

It's probably worst then that, but I guess you gotta factor in the " mains will airdodge into a charge fsmash some point in the match".

^^^^ yea to both.


Edit: For another record he believes ike wins vs ICs

Saying something like that hurts his credibility more-so then strengthens it.

I play san with falco a lot, and while i dont have the best falco out there, based on the situational control that ike can exert at times, falco only really has a +1 over ike.

It's either +1 or +2. It depends the degree to which we define +1/+2 according to the ratios we used to use. I guess it's more dependent on whether +1 is considered just 55-45 or if we include 60-40 in that spread. I think we include 60-40 in +1 so I'd give it to being only +1 vs and +2 vs because that's probably more like 65-35 or 70-30.

Ike does better against olimar. About the same vs dedede.


Edit: Falco does NOT stomp ike rofl.

San has told me is incredibly bad. Either -2 or -3...Will told me the same thing for vs . It's just so hard to approach and no projectile makes you have to approach .

 

[Kuro~]

Nah more so the edgeguarding/easy way to put him offstage/really strong reward for a read.


Lmao ok joe. Ok. I'm done.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS vs ROB is+2 or +3

ROB gets wrecked even without the infinite, and the infinite is super easy. If I can do it anyone can.

Salem destroyed Dill's soul and v115 beat Holy, if you want results.

As for ZSS not beating anyone more than +1 outside of low tiers, that's not really true either. ZSS has a very strong advantage on DK, ROB, and possibly Kirby (I don't think any top Kirby has ever beaten a good ZSS in tourney like ever and it isn't a good match even on paper). ESAM says ZSS vs ICs is +2, even though I think personally it's only +1.

ZSS' problem tends to be having a lot of -1 matchups in top tier, Olimar, MK, Falco, Diddy are all -1 which can be come a problem for her statistically. This is probably the reason for what I've come to call "the curse of 5th place" where ZSS rarely gets higher than 5th in the four years this game has been out LOL

 

[Z'zgashi]

Kinda like Yoshi's curse of 17th?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Kinda like Yoshi's curse of 17th?

And the Peach curse of 17th too

 

[RaptorTEC]

ZSS vs ROB is+2 or +3

ROB gets wrecked even without the infinite, and the infinite is super easy. If I can do it anyone can.

Salem destroyed Dill's soul and v115 beat Holy, if you want results.

As for ZSS not beating anyone more than +1 outside of low tiers, that's not really true either. ZSS has a very strong advantage on DK, ROB, and possibly Kirby (I don't think any top Kirby has ever beaten a good ZSS in tourney like ever and it isn't a good match even on paper). ESAM says ZSS vs ICs is +2, even though I think personally it's only +1.

ZSS' problem tends to be having a lot of -1 matchups in top tier, Olimar, MK, Falco, Diddy are all -1 which can be come a problem for her statistically. This is probably the reason for what I've come to call "the curse of 5th place" where ZSS rarely gets higher than 5th in the four years this game has been out LOL

Salem didn't destroy Dill lol it was really close ;o

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I talked to him about it, game 1 was disgusting (3-stock+infinite), game 2 was actually really close and Dill pulled the win out.


Then he got 2-stocked game 3. How is taht "close?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zko_srS_rq4

Dill is a friend of mine adn I have a lot of respect for him as a player but it's silly to pretend Salem didn't stomp him.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Derp I coulda sworn it was last stock last hit game 3 but the video obviously proves otherwise. My bad xD

 

[PMC66]

If anything should be on the same level as /.

^

No

's matchups with HT:
: -3
: 0 or -1
: -1 or -2
: -1
: -3
: 0 or +1
: 0
: 0 or -1
: 0 or +1
: 0
: 0
: 0
: -1

That's not a bad spread at all...

Lucario is not even KO deficit frame advantage the fact he can kill and ROB sucks at Killinhe also controls ROB better off stage because of D-air and F-air and aura sphere making it difficult for ROB tom come back sure ROB can get Luc off stage but Luc has an off stage KO move ROB doesn't. ZSS is +2 and even worse with the footstool infinite. Diddy is not even that mu is +1 for Diddy. Toon Link is +1 for Toon Link he's small he out camps ROB his Z-air van give him a KO set up into U-smash.

Falco is dreaful what meta game are you looking at? lasers alone cripple ROB, pretty much the entire ROB boards agree that Falco is a horrible matchup for ROB. Some ROB's have been arguing he's -3.

Snake is far from even he lives forever ROB has no reliable way of dispatching him other than getting lucky off stage.

all those matchups should look like this


Meta knight --3 practically unwinable

Snake -1/-2 i personally feel more -2 at top level but it's still perfectly winnable

Falco -2 at least

Zero Suit Samus -2

Dedede -2 pretty rough might end up becoming -3 in the future but ROB can force him to aproach which kind of helps him out to some degree

IC's are even but if one wins i'd actually say ROB did as much as i think he's trash

Marth: 0

Wario: is -1 For ROB the fact he kills efficiently puts it in Wario's favour

Pikachu: is -1 Thunder and stage control give him a slight edge

Diddy: in no universe is Diddy even with ROB bananas, KO set ups, the fact he juggles so much better and ROB can find him hard to keep out it's -1 possibly -2 at top level Ocean got 3 stocked by ADHD but for the most part it's not a terrible matchup

Lucario: -2 i used to think it was even but after playing this MU more and more I feel it's vastly in Lucario's favour it's a matter of pushing who off the stage first but Luc has better tools to get ROB off stage, he lives for ages, and aura sphere gives him away of killing ROB off stage as he tries to recover.

Olimar: possibly -2 but i'd put it as -1 atm all ROB can do is F-tilt, if Olimar plucks white pikmin he out ranges ROB pretty badly also Purples kill ROB disgustingly quickly. TBH alot of Olis don't play it correctly :/

ROB is no way anywhere near as good as any star fox character

those are not high tier matchups at all (well the ones i just wrote) which whilst harsh to some is still somewhat accurate, most ROB's would put Oli and Diddy at -1 no one's argued Lucario in a long time and there will be some who disagree with -2.

ROB boards are 50-50 about the severity of snake, some think -1 some think -2 i'm in the -2 camp.

Also if ZSS did perform the footstool infinite the matchup would sky rocket to -3 without doubt.

 

[Tesh]

Lol, link me to any recent big tournament results which show any of those 5 doing better than ROB.

whobo4

Ryo Ike 5th
Chibo ROB 33rd

I dont know bout sheik and yoshi but when sonic/kirby/ike show up to the same thing as ROB, I've only seen ROB do better once (Apex 2012).

ROB has only gotten worse over time imo. Shrinking stagelists and universal LGLs don't really help him either.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Shrinking stagelist helps him more than hurts him, and the LGL isnt a big deal for him cuz he doesnt ledge camp as hard as other characters.

 

[Seagull Joe]

ZSS vs ROB is+2 or +3

ROB gets wrecked even without the infinite, and the infinite is super easy. If I can do it anyone can.

Salem destroyed Dill's soul and v115 beat Holy, if you want results.

As for ZSS not beating anyone more than +1 outside of low tiers, that's not really true either. ZSS has a very strong advantage on DK, ROB, and possibly Kirby (I don't think any top Kirby has ever beaten a good ZSS in tourney like ever and it isn't a good match even on paper). ESAM says ZSS vs ICs is +2, even though I think personally it's only +1.

ZSS' problem tends to be having a lot of -1 matchups in top tier, Olimar, MK, Falco, Diddy are all -1 which can be come a problem for her statistically. This is probably the reason for what I've come to call "the curse of 5th place" where ZSS rarely gets higher than 5th in the four years this game has been out LOL

I said I don't think +3's anyone outside of LT. I didn't say +2 because I know she +2's quite a few characters.

Lucario is not even KO deficit frame advantage the fact he can kill and ROB sucks at Killinhe also controls ROB better off stage because of D-air and F-air and aura sphere making it difficult for ROB tom come back sure ROB can get Luc off stage but Luc has an off stage KO move ROB doesn't. ZSS is +2 and even worse with the footstool infinite. Diddy is not even that mu is +1 for Diddy. Toon Link is +1 for Toon Link he's small he out camps ROB his Z-air van give him a KO set up into U-smash.

Falco is dreaful what meta game are you looking at? lasers alone cripple ROB, pretty much the entire ROB boards agree that Falco is a horrible matchup for ROB. Some ROB's have been arguing he's -3.

Snake is far from even he lives forever ROB has no reliable way of dispatching him other than getting lucky off stage.

all those matchups should look like this

Meta knight --3 practically unwinable

Snake -1/-2 i personally feel more -2 at top level but it's still perfectly winnable

Falco -2 at least

Zero Suit Samus -2

Dedede -2 pretty rough might end up becoming -3 in the future but ROB can force him to aproach which kind of helps him out to some degree

IC's are even but if one wins i'd actually say ROB did as much as i think he's trash

Marth: 0

Wario: is -1 For ROB the fact he kills efficiently puts it in Wario's favour

Pikachu: is -1 Thunder and stage control give him a slight edge

Diddy: in no universe is Diddy even with ROB bananas, KO set ups, the fact he juggles so much better and ROB can find him hard to keep out it's -1 possibly -2 at top level Ocean got 3 stocked by ADHD but for the most part it's not a terrible matchup

Lucario: -2 i used to think it was even but after playing this MU more and more I feel it's vastly in Lucario's favour it's a matter of pushing who off the stage first but Luc has better tools to get ROB off stage, he lives for ages, and aura sphere gives him away of killing ROB off stage as he tries to recover.

Olimar: possibly -2 but i'd put it as -1 atm all ROB can do is F-tilt, if Olimar plucks white pikmin he out ranges ROB pretty badly also Purples kill ROB disgustingly quickly. TBH alot of Olis don't play it correctly :/

ROB is no way anywhere near as good as any star fox character

those are not high tier matchups at all (well the ones i just wrote) which whilst harsh to some is still somewhat accurate, most ROB's would put Oli and Diddy at -1 no one's argued Lucario in a long time and there will be some who disagree with -2.

ROB boards are 50-50 about the severity of snake, some think -1 some think -2 i'm in the -2 camp.

Also if ZSS did perform the footstool infinite the matchup would sky rocket to -3 without doubt.

I don't base my decisions on matchups/tier placement based on Wi-Fi players/casuals/people not at the top of their characters metagame so you picking up has no factor upon the matchup if you can't play him optimal.

I'm basing my decisions based on observations of results and good players playing. I also base them on character weaknesses/advantages.

In no way, shape, or manner does +2 . Your logic might as well say loses -2 as well because is hard to kill, combos him further as he gains percent, and if does GR>Fair>Fair>Dair then that's a stock everytime.

I can't really take what you say at face value ever PMC because not only do you never listen to reason, but you also ignore results and only base anything you say based upon your own use of said character on Wi-Fi.

 

[Steam]

Lucario can't hit RoB offstage if RoB just recovers low... lol

RoB on the other hand can really crush lucario's recovery because he can just follow him anywhere... they have the same fall speed. Bair really wrecks luc's upB. It's even or +1 Lucario.

 

[Ryo_Guikido]

His record with Xaltis is like 0-10 if I recall correctly.

That's not true at all. I don't really lose to falco often at all.... What makes you say that?

Any way a lot of Ikes matchups aren't really that bad...and Ike is a far better character then.R.O.B

 

[NickRiddle]

Ike is MUCH better than ROB.

 

[Seagull Joe]

That's not true at all. I don't really lose to falco often at all.... What makes you say that?

Any way a lot of Ikes matchups aren't really that bad...and Ike is a far better character then.R.O.B

It's just what Esam told me. Sorry if the facts I got were wrong.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Haven't made a post in here in awhile...
Anyways.

1. That's banned.
2. Chibo isn't that good (He's gotten a lot worst then even Chibo prime whenever that was).

I'd agree with this if they both actually played and beat MK mains (that're good) in bracket. Chibo lost to Kirby and GaW while Ryo lost to Atomsk.

 

[C.J.]

Ryo barely lost to Atomsk. Stupid Frigate/Waddle

 

[PMC66]

I said I don't think +3's anyone outside of LT. I didn't say +2 because I know she +2's quite a few characters.

I don't base my decisions on matchups/tier placement based on Wi-Fi players/casuals/people not at the top of their characters metagame so you picking up has no factor upon the matchup if you can't play him optimal.

I'm basing my decisions based on observations of results and good players playing. I also base them on character weaknesses/advantages.

In no way, shape, or manner does +2 . Your logic might as well say loses -2 as well because is hard to kill, combos him further as he gains percent, and if does GR>Fair>Fair>Dair then that's a stock everytime.

I can't really take what you say at face value ever PMC because not only do you never listen to reason, but you also ignore results and only base anything you say based upon your own use of said character on Wi-Fi.

I don't base everything on how well i do on wifi and i do play offline actually.

i looked at quite a few videos of ROB vs Lucario pretty much all of them backed up what i just said.

My logic doesn't state wolf gets +2ed they are totally different characters.

if i based my own opinions on wifi doesn't it seem strange that a pure wifi brawler would say a character that does well on wifi is a bad character? thats because I'M NOT A PURE WIFI BRAWLER. I do base quite a few things from my own regional scene, I am not the only person in UK that feels ROB is garbage and that he's bodied vs Fox.

I'm sorry but you live in 2009 with ROB sure some of my opinions sound harsh on him but other ROB mains are equally realistic about the character, I only know of MR.Eric that remains positive and who geniunely feels ROB is a 'good character'.

Also other than Fox being -3 the rest of those figures i gave are completely accurate, your knowledge of ROB clearly isn't very good if you thought Toon Link was even, Pikachu was +1 and Zero Suit Samus being close to even. Which nearly every ROB main looking at your post called you out on :/.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kxnt9buxOk

^ Clearly not an even matchup and considering it's rarely played i think ROB whilst he puts up an admirable fight is clearly out matched

BTW i use to main ROB solidly but i stopped doing so because i have a policy whereby I don't main characters whereby i blame the character if i loose too often.

 

[Luco]

Fine, let me rephrase it.

Link me a tournament under the standard tournament ruleset that the tier list is actually based on that also has a good rob player in attendance in which any of those 5 characters did better.

I can't give you any on those 5 but didn't shaky take first at whobo 4 mid tier tournament? I seem to recall seeing some big names there too and maybe some ROBs. He got very far, in any case. *thinks*

Eh, it's not relevant anyway.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I disagree with everyone saying that DDD/ROB is terrible. ROB can time him out so easily it's stupid.

ROB/Falco isn't that bad either (-2 at worst), ROBs just suck and gyro predictably/fail to retreat correctly/fail to power-shield consistently/I dunno, something.

 

[Luco]

I think a reverse gyro tactic could really make the gyro mindgame interesting, actually.

 

[PMC66]

i put falco as -2 i was just stating i know robs who would put it worse.

^timing D3 out is quite hard, especially when one chain grab does so much damage and he kills so much quicker. ATM i think it's a -2 match but in the future i can see things getting worse for ROB because his options in the matchup aren't particularly good

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I'm sorry but you live in 2009 with ROB sure some of my opinions sound harsh on him but other ROB mains are equally realistic about the character, I only know of MR.Eric that remains positive and who geniunely feels ROB is a 'good character'.

The Marth main?

 

[PMC66]

^ I don't main Marth and hey Ralph how's it going? Lol i see you on smash domain xD

 

[Grim Tuesday]

PMC66: Why do you ever need to touch the ground?
On BF, you can camp the 3 platforms and sides of the stage with ease, and the hardest punish DDD will get will be an aerial.
On SV, you can camp the moving platform and just go high when it goes over center stage.

I don't think it is a good MU for ROB or anything, but -3 feels outlandishly extreme.

ROB mains are harsh on him because he was horribly overrated when the game first came out, and most are too unwilling to change their ways and explore new tactics and would rather wallow in self-pity. G&W has a similar problem; massive respect for Vinnie.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I don't base everything on how well i do on wifi and i do play offline actually.

I'm sorry but you live in 2009 with ROB sure some of my opinions sound harsh on him but other ROB mains are equally realistic about the character, I only know of MR.Eric that remains positive and who geniunely feels ROB is a 'good character'.

Also other than Fox being -3 the rest of those figures i gave are completely accurate, your knowledge of ROB clearly isn't very good if you thought Toon Link was even, Pikachu was +1 and Zero Suit Samus being close to even. Which nearly every ROB main looking at your post called you out on :/.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kxnt9buxOk

^ Clearly not an even matchup and considering it's rarely played i think ROB whilst he puts up an admirable fight is clearly out matched

BTW i use to main ROB solidly but i stopped doing so because i have a policy whereby I don't main characters whereby i blame the character if i loose too often.

Nobody called me out on my figures outside of . vs is even. vs is either even or 's favor. I base this off 's having positive records with 's to my knowledge. Esam usually loses to 8bitman with and then goes .

You posted a video where Chibo barely lost o_O. How does that not constitute an even matchup? I saw nothing that made the matchup seem one-sided.

Edit: Just looked through the last 2 pages and the only one "calling me out" was you who said ridiculous claims to begin with and the 's corrected me about their matchup with . I said some incorrect statements about , but only in regards to the matchup...

 

[Ralph Cecil]

^ I don't main Marth and hey Ralph how's it going? Lol i see you on smash domain xD

D: I was just making a joke about how Mr. Eric is the Marth main, and Mister Eric is the ROB main lol. Also I thought your name sounded familiar. :o