Official BBR Tier List v6

[Ralph Cecil]

Won't Snake, & Diddy take a hit in their tier list placings? o-o

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

if anything snake will be number 1 again like back in the oldest of olden days.

 

[Shaya]

Snake would become no.1 again assuming that Diddy Kong loses to:

1. Snake
2. Multiple other characters

Because Snake loses to:
1. meta knight
2. Multiple other characters

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Snake would become no.1 again assuming that Diddy Kong loses to:

1. Snake
2. Multiple other characters

Because Snake loses to:
1. meta knight
2. Multiple other characters

You said the other day that Diddy would be number 1 in the Australian boards.

Make mind up plox.

Unless it was undetected sarcasm.

Diddy Kong doesn't really "lose" to other characters though. He's more of a "every seems to have okay matchups against him except low tiers" character.

 

[Krystedez]

peach, pit, ddd, sonic, rob, and dk will see drastic placement changes. hell luigi will also do way better since a lot of his MUs are under rated imo and MK was by far the worst of his MUs (infinite's allowed D3 aside)

THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS

except DK, he's !@#$ED.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

(Honestly the ruleset people should have banned dumb dthrow infinites before banning MK, but w/e.)

With MK removed, Wolf's and Fox's notoriety as "top 10 characters to fight MK" will hold no weight, so Peach could ascend above them. Add in a possible surge of DDD, and Wolf is in trouble, and more DDD means more Pikachu and ICs, which means Fox is in trouble.

But, with Wolf having one of the better Marth matchups, and Fox having one of the better Snake matchups, it's hard to say how far Wolf and Fox go down, if they do at all, or if Peach would rise above them in the first place.

Who says Wolf is one of the top ten characters to use vs MK?

Pretty sure he has a horrible matchup with MK.

Wolf will go up. Dunno about Fox though.

 

[Steam]

Lucario not having to deal with MK... helps him a lot. D3 and snake are a lot more manageable than MK especially now that lucarios can actually focus on that matchup rather than keeping the MK matchup winnable. I actually kinda feel MK being gone won't change all that much, but rather make every character a lot more viable about equally, exceptions being fox/wolf etc.

 

[Shaya]

You said the other day that Diddy would be number 1 in the Australian boards.

Make mind up plox.

You're a bit daft, aren't you?
What does the keyword 'assuming' mean?

Diddy Kong is the best character in the game (w/o MK), in my opinion, because diddy does not lose to snake nor anybody else.

 

[DMG]

Diddy Kong has a few soft counters/few characters that have comfortable even's with him. Even if the stage list was conservative.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

You're a bit daft, aren't you?
What does the keyword 'assuming' mean?

Diddy Kong is the best character in the game (w/o MK), in my opinion, because diddy does not lose to snake nor anybody else.

But Shaya, I love you!

Why must you talk to me so.

 

[Laem]

Who says Wolf is one of the top ten characters to use vs MK?

Pretty sure he has a horrible matchup with MK.

Try ppl who actually know stuff about wolf.
To be clear: No.

The only way Fox and Wolf can go is up (if at all), cuz theyre, like, good characters. Although peach surpassing them now makes sense somehow.

 

[Shaya]

But Shaya, I love you!

Why must you talk to me so.

Don't worry, I'm just angrily doing a university assignment due in under 3 hours, kk. NO HATE.

And as DMG said, while I'm not necessarily sure on Diddy having soft counters, he most definitely has 'comfortable evens'.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Good luck with that then Shaya!

@Laem: Soz, I just assumed that poor recovery + in general punishable attacks (except bair lol) = bad matchup.

I dunno. I wanna main Wolf now though. lul

 

[Mithost]

Someone needs to re-sub the hitler's downfall video for MK in the next tier list. xD

 

[Linkshot]

As long as you photoshop M2K's face over Hitler the whole time.

EDIT: Or Inui's.

 

[Raziek]

That needs to happen. So badly.

 

[B.A.M.]

WTF is that Ike doing behind you?

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Sonic needs some best results to move up. I think he's better than a lot of characters ahead of them. Why is Kirby so low?

 

[Mr. Johan]

Mobility issues, no one uses him, etc. Kind of like Luigi.

I figured Inui would be tied more to Ike, actually. That assured notion of Ike being in low tier no matter what and all that.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Umm...that's interesting. To be honest, I just thought it was because he got anal **** by Top tiers. And who know character usage can hurt you in the long run. I wonder if it possible to have a character say Kung Lao from MK or Dark Phoenix from Marvel were to drop down the list because no one played them. That would be pretty funny.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Umm...that's interesting. To be honest, I just thought it was because he got anal **** by Top tiers. And who know character usage can hurt you in the long run. I wonder if it possible to have a character say Kung Lao from MK or Dark Phoenix from Marvel were to drop down the list because no one played them. That would be pretty funny.

He loses to characters because he can't get in and he can't reasonably chase characters down, which are both tied to mobility.

Kung Lao and Dark Phoenix are moving down because there are balance patches for the game, not because people figured out how to counter them. Efforts going against them help, but they are very rarely enough to greatly hinder dominant characters, and with their option pool usually being better than most, they have more to improve on.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I figured Inui would be tied more to Ike, actually. That assured notion of Ike being in low tier no matter what and all that.

You mean bottom tier, along with A2ZOMG thinking Ike is the second worst in the game. Though Inui also assumed that he was automatically the best with any low tier he used, even though his playing style with them was always at least a year behind.

What a pair of idiots eh? Can't believe anyone ever listened to them.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Lol wait they were serious? I thought it was a funny joke

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Lol wait they were serious? I thought it was a funny joke

Oh no, trust me. They were serious. I had enough arguments with them to know.

 

[infiniteV115]

So...has tier list v7 discussion begun already, now that MK-banned tournaments fall under Unity?
Or are you going to hold the discussion off until a little while after he's COMPLETELY banned from Unity?

 

[NickRiddle]

So...has tier list v7 discussion begun already, now that MK-banned tournaments fall under Unity?
Or are you going to hold the discussion off until a little while after he's COMPLETELY banned from Unity?

Tier list V6 is too recent to even pretend that discussing it is needed, especially since MK isn't officially banned until after Apex.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

He loses to characters because he can't get in and he can't reasonably chase characters down, which are both tied to mobility.

Kung Lao and Dark Phoenix are moving down because there are balance patches for the game, not because people figured out how to counter them. Efforts going against them help, but they are very rarely enough to greatly hinder dominant characters, and with their option pool usually being better than most, they have more to improve on.

Cool beans. Good to meet a fellow smasher that loves Mk. Well Kirby is still a good character.

 

[-LzR-]

I used to play MK because I just loved his playstyle and liked his character. I was proban and actually promoted the whole MK ban thing in Finland so I quit after he was banned. I kinda miss those times

 

[~ Gheb ~]

lol @ the amount of delusion in this thread. Most of you SEVERELY overrate how many characters' metagames will improve with the ban of MK. Bad characters will not suddenly become good because MK is gone. Peach, ROB, Sonic and DK will remain unviable characters for the rest of Brawl's lifespan. Now they're going to lose to Falco, Snake or DDD instead of MK but they're still going to lose. You didn't make characters any better - you've just changed the how and the why they are bad to begin with.

The biggest difference will probably be that people will now realize how broken ICs are [especially once they become better at the Diddy match-up]. Pit could be a solid high tier character now if it weren't for the terrible ledge grab rules the unity ruleset uses so I don't get my hopes up on him doing that much better in america although as a character he's good enough for it [though I'd say the same even with MK around]. Since you're arguing under the assumption that MK beats every character then it should be clear that the ban itself does not change the tier list - it depends on how many "bad" match-ups there are left.

Snake has no losing match-up, Diddy Kong and ICs will also arguably have no losing match-up so that is the most likely top 3 in the game. Snake arguably beats both of them so my guess would be that he's going to be #1. DDD might only see a minor benefit, Marth and Wario will roughly stay the same, ZSS could see a rise of ~2 spots. It'd be highly delusional to think that any character is going to rise or drop by more than two spots.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Snake loses to Marth, & Pika. o-o Also from what the last tier list's discussion about Snake said, his MK mu did bring him up some.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

DDD also has a slight edge on snake.

and gheb i agree and disagree with your post. i think some characters could see drastic changes.

for example with MK gone peach is only really countered by snake in high tier. falco is barely his favor same with marth. them aside she goes even with most of high tier and she bodies wario not to mention her good MUs on ICs and olimar.

DDD will go up to top 7

since pit doesn't actually lose to snake he will be high tier as he only loses to wario marth and g&w. and possibly ICs.

toon link will probably go up a few spots

fox and wolf are going down by quite a bit now that pikachu and their other really bad MUs are gonna be prevelent

ROB may actually go up

G&W will definately go up

that's my thoughts on what will happen. lower mid and low aren't really gonna change at all because they don't really matter.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Snake loses to Marth, & Pika.

No, he doesn't.

DDD also has a slight edge on snake.

No he doesn't.

for example with MK gone peach is only really countered by snake in high tier. falco is barely his favor same with marth. them aside she goes even with most of high tier and she bodies wario not to mention her good MUs on ICs and olimar.

She loses BADLY to Snake, loses to all space animals, loses to DDD, loses to Marth, sightly loses to Diddy, arguably loses to Lucario and doesn't beat any high tier character other than Wario. The MK ban will be of no benefit to her.

G&W will definately go up

If we assume the top 3 to become Snake, IC and Diddy ... likely followed by Falco / Marth ... how the hell if GW of all characters supposed to go up? MK is certainly not the reason why GW isn't doing so hot in tourneys - results actually show that the opposite is the case.

 

[DMG]

Snake has no bad MU's. Never has, never will. That's why Snake used to be the best character until people learned how to play MK.






Did I do it right?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

gheb you're being dumb. peach does not lose to fox and wolf. peach absolutely does not lose to ddd. goes even with diddy at worst. she beats olimar. hell it's been argued (and to a degree proven) that peach beats pikachu. everything you are saying about peach is just your personal opinion about her character MUs and not what they actually are.

yes DDD beats snake. deal with it

as for g&w, i guess i shoulda said that people above him will move below him but people below him will also move above him so, while it's no guarentee, im still sure he will go up a spot or 2.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Snake has no bad MU's. Never has, never will. That's why Snake used to be the best character until people learned how to play MK.






Did I do it right?

By that logic...

SNAKE'S NEXT IN LINE TO BE BANNED.

(Being facetious. Please do not take that comment seriously.)

Smooth Criminal

 

[BlueXenon]

My opinions:
Snake will be #1
Diddy will be #2
Marth will be #3
Peach will be the lowest high tier
Rob will be 1st or 2nd in mid tier.
Pit will be the the best mid tier, or 2nd.
Ike will go up at least 4 spots since he only has a few bad match ups, and the rest are balanced.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

peach does not lose to fox and wolf.

peach absolutely does not lose to ddd

goes even with diddy

she beats olimar

DDD beats snake

5 incorrect statements in one post.

I win

 

[Laem]

I'd say peach goes even with fox and wolf and that the rest is idd incorrect. Not that anyone's individual opinion actually matters. Although I wouldn't expect an average pit player to be an expert in the d3 vs peach matchup...( inb4 ad hominem; suck a ****)

 

[Tesh]

gheb you're being dumb. peach does not lose to fox and wolf. peach absolutely does not lose to ddd. goes even with diddy at worst. she beats olimar. hell it's been argued (and to a degree proven) that peach beats pikachu. everything you are saying about peach is just your personal opinion about her character MUs and not what they actually are.

yes DDD beats snake. deal with it

as for g&w, i guess i shoulda said that people above him will move below him but people below him will also move above him so, while it's no guarentee, im still sure he will go up a spot or 2.

Dang Maharba, you really don't know what you are talking about here. From what I've seen, Peach probably does beat Olimar, but she doesn't "go even at worst" with Diddy. I won't pretend to know the Fox and Wolf matchups vs Peach but they both outcamp her, kill earlier, and have greater mobility. And DDD isn't a good matchup for peach.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Why do people think ROB is all-of-a-sudden so much better without MK. He still inherently sucks.

And I'm still not convinced that Peach becomes high tier, either.