Official BBR Tier List v6

[Seagull Joe]

*Sees vs discussion*

absolutely beats at minimum +1. I've had few s even think it's -2 for them. It's my personal favorite matchup .

does lose to , but he's probably even with and may beat . I don't think a ban will have too much an impact on the metagame. If people suddenly started picking up , , and this late into the metagame as secondaries and to future mains then they'd still lose most likely to thos who have played / for a long time. It's not like the spacey mains don't practice our bad matchups.

Only the current mains like Esam, Coney, Atomsk, Lain, and such will probably prevail (And they always have so not much of a difference).

 

[Doc King]

gheb you're being dumb. peach does not lose to fox and wolf. peach absolutely does not lose to ddd. goes even with diddy at worst. she beats olimar. hell it's been argued (and to a degree proven) that peach beats pikachu. everything you are saying about peach is just your personal opinion about her character MUs and not what they actually are.

yes DDD beats snake. deal with it

as for g&w, i guess i shoulda said that people above him will move below him but people below him will also move above him so, while it's no guarentee, im still sure he will go up a spot or 2.

Peach absolutely loses to DDD. Did you know that D3 can down throw her into an up smash finisher on upward slopes? http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=189933

For someone who is pretty light and floaty, D3 being able to down throw her into an up smash is MASSIVE! There are other reasons too. D3's bair is able to punish all of Peach's aireals, Combo the crap outta her, and even edge guard her. Also, Peach's dair combos are escapable and don't work out as good as D3's combos. We D3 mains have learned how to avoid Peach's air combos and how to punish them. Also, Peach is pretty slow and can't really camp, which makes it easy for us to approach her. One last thing I'm gonna mention is that Peach has a really hard time killing D3 while D3 has an easy time killing Peach.

The matchup imo is a +2 for King Dedede.

I dont know whether Snake vs. D3 is even or a slight D3 advantage. Hard to decide, but it's either one.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I don't think would lose -2 to O_O...You make it seem like all they do is float and dair.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I think the Snake matchup with DDD is even, with maybe a slight nod to DDD.

Smooth Criminal

 

[DMG]

That would change real hard if Dedede's could do the infinite well. But jesus that **** is hard to do: I can do the buffer Usmash but that's easy compared to this ****.

Dthrow. B D B F Z all in the span of the buffer window AND you can't linger on Z or else you shield/roll.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

upwards slopes don't matter because the only stages with slopes that matter are banned. say whatever you want but the fact is peach is even with or beats DDD imo.

actually im not even gonna argue this crap with you guys. i've seen plenty of illmatic's and other top peaches matches to prove my points, whereas i have yet to see multiple matches of it the other way around. sure there will a match upset here and there, but when you can prove to me that peach loses to ddd in actual gameplay consistently, DDD loses to snake consistently, and a top peach losing hard to diddy that isn't that friendly between gnes and illmatic, i maaaay consider possibly changing my opinion.


also tesh, don't ever tell me that again. i probably do more actual research than anybody in houston on crap like peach vs DDD, especially since i seconded DDD and have been using him quite regularly. it's pretty obvious what the character can and can't do.

*leaves thread again*

 

[DMG]

Dedede does good vs Peach.

 

[Ripple]

DK without a LGL will be like 4th on a tier list

 

[Seagull Joe]

still probably beats each +1. It just isn't good enough to be +2.

 

[phi1ny3]

imo Peach loses to Lucario, if the Self-professed "Lucario Slayer" got 2-0'd by two lucarios, it can be said that Peach only does well when the lucario is booty, or if they don't know the MU. It's not terribad though, but probably +1 at the least.

 

[Tesh]

That would change real hard if Dedede's could do the infinite well. But jesus that **** is hard to do: I can do the buffer Usmash but that's easy compared to this ****.

Dthrow. B D B F Z all in the span of the buffer window AND you can't linger on Z or else you shield/roll.

I wonder if you could program a controller to do that. I had a gamecube controller that had a button you could program multiple inputs to...

upwards slopes don't matter because the only stages with slopes that matter are banned. say whatever you want but the fact is peach is even with or beats DDD imo.

actually im not even gonna argue this crap with you guys. i've seen plenty of illmatic's and other top peaches matches to prove my points, whereas i have yet to see multiple matches of it the other way around. sure there will a match upset here and there, but when you can prove to me that peach loses to ddd in actual gameplay consistently, DDD loses to snake consistently, and a top peach losing hard to diddy that isn't that friendly between gnes and illmatic, i maaaay consider possibly changing my opinion.


also tesh, don't ever tell me that again. i probably do more actual research than anybody in houston on crap like peach vs DDD, especially since i seconded DDD and have been using him quite regularly. it's pretty obvious what the character can and can't do.

*leaves thread again*

The idea that Peach beat Diddy Kong is from the same 08/09 metagame that thought diddy was mid tier and that anyone that could move past bananas without tripping (spindash/float) was rully gud at the matchup.

I'm not gonna value your research based on you 2nding DDD. I 2nd pokemon trainer, pit, wario, metaknight, ganondorf, falcon, but I'm not gonna pretend I'm relevant enough with those characters to know the matchups.

You make alot of outlandish claims without backing them up and then you say "I'm not even gonna argue about this". When a Peach main or a DDD main or a Diddy main even backs you up, I might look into it. Right now I see multiple people disagreeing with you. Most likely because you are wrong.

Doc King you are overrating a situation trick I think. Considering its only possible on parts of certain stages, I wouldn't rank it up there with his Dthrow-Upsmash on Lucario and Sonic. Its not really relevant to the matchup.

 

[z00ted]

Lmao, what is going on here?
Maharba, I appreciate the love dude - but some of your stuff was off. Some was right, though!
Here's Peach's matchup ratios from my perspective (that you guys are talking about):

-3
-2
-1
0
+1

The only two characters that I believe TRULY counter Peach after the ban are Snake and Marth.
Why would Peach automatically become unviable still after the Metaknight ban? I'll agree that she was pretty unviable before it, but it still was a winnable matchup (myself and others proved this).

You guys stick tight to your ratios wayyy too much. If it's -1 it's not like Peach automatically becomes unviable... it's the player who is using the character. I ****ing suck against Marth, but I know Raz is great against him. Some Peach's suck against Snake, but I'm almost positive I could beat any Snake in the country if it's not Ally or Razer.

Don't let ratios determine everything.... lol

 

[DMG]

NOPE I WILL SLAY YOU PEACHES WITH MARTH

Aaaaa

 

[z00ted]

Also... Gheb, why are your posts so salty?

 

[Fuujin]

Ooo that call out.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Lmao, what is going on here?
Maharba, I appreciate the love dude - but some of your stuff was off. Some was right, though!
Here's Peach's matchup ratios from my perspective (that you guys are talking about):

-3
-2
-1
0
+1

The only two characters that I believe TRULY counter Peach after the ban are Snake and Marth.
Why would Peach automatically become unviable still after the Metaknight ban? I'll agree that she was pretty unviable before it, but it still was a winnable matchup (myself and others proved this).

You guys stick tight to your ratios wayyy too much. If it's -1 it's not like Peach automatically becomes unviable... it's the player who is using the character. I ****ing suck against Marth, but I know Raz is great against him. Some Peach's suck against Snake, but I'm almost positive I could beat any Snake in the country if it's not Ally or Razer.

Don't let ratios determine everything.... lol

I agree w/ everything except Wolf, lol. That is definitely a -1 or -2 matchup, lol. She really can't pressure Wolf well, and she mostly has to stay grounded/defensive. She can't do much about the bair wall, and she barely can kill Wolf--he's such a heavy weight Maybe if you play a top Wolf like Kain or Seagull, you'll change your mind, lol.

 

[Sinister Slush]

NOPE I WILL SLAY YOU PEACHES WITH MARTH

Aaaaa

Nike20 is the peach slayer.

Also... Gheb, why are your posts so salty?

>EU

 

[z00ted]

I agree w/ everything except Wolf, lol. That is definitely a -1 or -2 matchup, lol. She really can't pressure Wolf well, and she mostly has to stay grounded/defensive. She can't do much about the bair wall, and she barely can kill Wolf--he's such a heavy weight Maybe if you play a top Wolf like Kain or Seagull, you'll change your mind, lol.

I've played Choice and Holmes, didn't really feel disadvantaged at all.
Fun sets.

 

[Doc King]

I don't see how ppl think that all slope combos are useless. I mean there are a few stages with good slopes like Brinstar, Yoshi's, Halberd, Frigate, Delfino.

I was successful in doing the down throw to up smash on Peach 4 times in a row on Frigate.

 

[MechaWave]

I rightfully believe Peach might very well be at the very bottom of the high tiers in the next tier list, or at the tippy top of the mid-tiers. This is not to say the same for Fox and Wolf who could also receive the same benefit. They're just as deserving. :3 Actually the whole D tier could become a high tier even if none of the characters in that tier move in terms of numeral placement, this is not to say the tier letter itself couldn't.

I agree with Illmatic's points. My worst MU is Marth but I do well against Snake. I guess people have forgotten that a matchup isn't a certainty: it depends on the player and numerous other circumstances.

This :wolfbrawl:vseachbrawl: discussion has been discussed numerous times already, especially in this thread.

NOPE I WILL SLAY YOU PEACHES WITH MARTH

Aaaaa

oh you.

@Doc King: It seems that your posts are biased towards Dedede. You fond of him, correct? Most of your posts regarding Dedede always seems to end up with you saying something in Dedede's favor. Not to say anything about the CG on Peach, this has nothing to do with that.

 

[Deleted member]

This Peach vs. Wolf argument is silly. Take some words from Nicole, who recently took 2nd at a regional a few weeks back:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13160507&postcount=365

 

[z00ted]

ummmmm....no?

 

[MechaWave]

@Illmatic: You could have at least stated who you were replying to.

 

[z00ted]

the post above mine? lmao

welcome2forumz

 

[Atomsk_92]

If it's -1 it's not like Peach automatically becomes unviable

Remember that time I 3 stocked every peach?

Don't let ratios determine everything.... lol

You're right here though ^

 

[phi1ny3]

The DDD Peach MU is -1.56297 Peach's favor until DDD does the super special double buffered jet hammer cancel chaingrab -> strutterstep fsmash, then it's +3.0000000002 D3's favor.

 

[Cassio]

Gheb is right, snake doesnt lose to pika. He gets destroyed

But yeah, with wolf and maybe fox if both players are at an even skill level pika still needs to know the MU for it to be that bad for wolf. Actually thats probably not very true for fox unfortunately.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Toon Link is like Top Tier now.

 

[Shaya]

Toon Link is like Top Tier now.

Yeah, totally.

 

[Meru.]

-2
-1
+1

Peach doesn't lose to Diddy and... Fox O_O. Peach beats Wario and Olimar harder than that imo.

I'm still not so sure if she loses to Meta Knight that badly, but I suck so much vs him, I also cant really argue against it. **** match-up.

The only two characters that I believe TRULY counter Peach after the ban are Snake and Marth.

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIN!!!! NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEEEEEEEEIN!!

DU SCHWEINHUND!!

 

[Shaya]

Marth easily +4s Peach.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Marth doesn't seem that bad for Peach tbh.

I loled @ Peach being bad for Olimar though. US Olimar players giving their broken piece of **** character a bad name

 

[Ussi]

Yay is from the netherlands


US Olimars think they win the MU

 

[Linkshot]

It's all the same character, no regional differences in Brawl, so we eventually have to come to an international agreement.

 

[Ussi]

Japan has their own tier list (as do many other countries)

your statement is invalid

 

[Linkshot]

All tier lists are invalid until we come to the international agreement, since there are no gameplay differences between regions.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

wait...what? Why would we do that now? I mean no one has talk about doing it at all? And does Japan still play Brawl? I don't think so, since BB CSX is out and they are loving it.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

you know what would be really cool is at apex if the top players from all of the different countries (im talking gnes ally m2k mr.R earth nietono etc) got together and made a tier list with all of the different viewpoints from these top national players. it would be interesting albeit probably a waste of time

 

[Cassio]

I have a hard time deciding if olimar is a broken p.o.s. or if people just havent figured him out yet. Im more inclined to believe the former because of Japan etc., but then I watch larry vs rich/brood...

 

[DMG]

Olimar is solid, BUT he has flaws. The range of his moves is good, but the mechanics of his move are garbage. He also has a lot of trouble responding to pressure once people get in besides Usmash OOS.

If Olimar's attacks had more definitive priority that's up to par with most of the cast, he would be very strong. Like top 5 hands down strong.