Official BBR Tier List v6

[Conviction]

ため

1ochars

。。。やれやれ。。。なぜ ほんとぅ？

 

[Deleted member]

Mechawave, you've got explaining to do then. The other mains have either agreed that Wolf is better, or failed to give good reasoning to why Peach is better, other than "turnip potential".

 

[MechaWave]

So could someone please answer me why Fox and Wolf are leaps and bounds above peach? i mean with espy's (and to an extent some others) post of sonic should be above peach but should never be put up above wolf...makes it sound like fox and wolf should be the only ones in D tier and peach in E tier. Why is this ?

Because people are stupid as ****. Once someone moves up and give lighter insight to the situation (this time being Sonic) and turn everything around about their thoughts. This was NEVER discussed during the previous tier list and it's stupid.

 

[Krystedez]

everyone that used rob quit except for chibo. lol

LOL dat chibo exception :o

Boredom?

Because some people seriously try to use that logic with their character? *coughpitcough*

Pits don't need that logic. They need results. Because that's all the tier list will ever be based upon and not simple common sense. Which ironically if we used more common sense, we'd be able to see that Pit does fine in other regions and not just our own, including Europe and Japan. But we don't care about Japan, do we?

Kirby has. no one. NO ONE. (except for the lovable Kewwky). Pit has a legion of mains that can attest to match up spreads, data, and actual facts, not ring-around logic about "potential".

 

[Conviction]

Or because people who actually main peach know that Fox and Wolf have better accomplishments. But we were stupid as ****, what do we know? LOL

 

[MechaWave]

Mechawave, you've got explaining to do then. The other mains have either agreed that Wolf is better, or failed to give good reasoning to why Peach is better, other than "turnip potential".

No I don't and I won't. Read everything about this thread before you post such posts as this. And please quote.

 

[Deleted member]

Um...who failed to read here??

 

[Reizilla]

It's a Peach main, just leave him her be.

 

[Conviction]

Failing to explain strongly suggests certain things but I guess we don't have to pursue this discussion any further. LOL@ above post.

 

[Ripple]

。。。やれやれ。。。なぜ ほんとぅ？

it's better to say that I think he will be, he just isn't right now.

(I can't translate my sentence)

 

[RoanYagyu]

Alright maybe i worded that poorly but my question wasnt why fox and wolf are above peach, i have yet to seen too much of fox and wolf yet to determine if i have any problems with this. My question is why does it sound like the gap between peach and the other two are so huge that sonic being above her is fine, but sonic being above wolf is ludacris? PM me or post with a actual explanation here please people D: It would be highly appreciated

 

[Luigi player]

I can't believe so many people just shove off Kirby so fast.
Chudat had amazing (for that character) results/wins with Kirby.
Like at every big tourney Chudat was at he was getting like 13th most of the time which is actually pretty good. Sometimes he did even better.
Really sad he quit Brawl, now everyone's forgetting about that pink blob so quickly...

 

[DMG]

I'm not arguing that he loses to these characters, I'm arguing that they have viable matchups against him. Wario's ONLY advantage is the ability to run away. And these characters can camp back if they get percent leads the same way.

Wario loses to almost all of top tier tier, and has even-ish matchups with most of mid tier and a lot of tier. It doesn't even matter if he beats all of low tier, he BARELY most of them beats them. Wario doesn't **** Zelda, or Falcon, or Ganon, or Bowser, or Luigi, or Ike, or DK. His matchup spread is worse than ROB or Kirbys. He's better than them, but the number of characters he's likely to lose to even at top level is pretty huge compared to everyone else in top tier... Imo he's top tier but at the bottom.

DK he *****, Ganon and Bowser as well. The others yes.

His MU spread is too evenish lol. He doesn't lose to most of top tier, but he's not pulling any real advantages on them either. Most of his MU's are 55:45 either character's favor up there, Snake being debatable but probably just 55:45.

MK Marth are obvious. Snake is fairly even, same with Pika Olimar. IC... god knows what that MU is. Ideally probably slight IC favor, on a more realistic note where Nana gets *****, 55:45 Wario. Falco could win that, don't see that being past 6:4 ever though.


I think Wario is in the general right place so far. The 3 characters under him all certainly have the potential to be better (IC's for sure), Some of their MU's seem really undecided though. Pika for example, what IS the Pika vs MK MU? Does he beat Snake? How hard is his MU with IC's? Does he go evenish with Diddy or does Diddy win? What about Marth? Or Oli, how does he really do vs MK or Diddy or Falco or etc? Those seem much harder to "pin down" than general **** like Wario vs Diddy is 55:45 or yeah Wario sucks vs Marth.


I could see Olimar above Wario. I think Pika is the short end of the top tier stick. His range being comparable to Wario's does not fare him well when it comes to gay spacing ****, and I think that will tend to keep him from dominating.

 

[Conviction]

Tbh, I'd have to look over peach again so I wouldn't say anything stupid. So I can probably give you a solid answer by tomorrow.

@Ripple そぅ です か？ たのしぃ。

 

[RoanYagyu]

Tbh, I'd have to look over peach again so I wouldn't say anything stupid. So I can probably give you a solid answer by tomorrow.

@Ripple そぅ です か？ たのしぃ。

Thank you sir :D

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Mechawave, you've got explaining to do then. The other mains have either agreed that Wolf is better, or failed to give good reasoning to why Peach is better, other than "turnip potential".

Bit puzzled about this part, would you mind finding the post(s) where this was said? This thread moves far too fast lol

Is it supposed to be like, 'Turnip potential' in general or in specific MU's?

 

[BSP]

What "cold hard facts" about peach is mechawave talking about?

 

[Dark.Pch]

So could someone please answer me why Fox and Wolf are leaps and bounds above peach? i mean with espy's (and to an extent some others) post of sonic should be above peach but should never be put up above wolf...makes it sound like fox and wolf should be the only ones in D tier and peach in E tier. Why is this ?

Cause Peach players play stupid and don't focus on alot of important stuff. Thus the public see's this and BOOM. You have your tier list with her.

You have people thinking sonic is better. Nuff said.

 

[Conviction]

Actually I think you should get DP to explain to you.

Also the "cold facts" are the ones he has preconceived

 

[Deleted member]

Bit puzzled about this part, would you mind finding the post(s) where this was said? This thread moves far too fast lol

Is it supposed to be like, 'Turnip potential' in general or in specific MU's?

I think Kuro posted it, then Dark Pch addressed it right before he went in hard. I'm on my phone right now so going back to find it would take some time. Just search for posts by those two users in this thread.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I think Kuro posted it, then Dark Pch addressed it right before he went in hard. I'm on my phone right now so going back to find it would take some time. Just search for posts by those two users in this thread.

Okey dokey

Edit: K found it :>

'Float and Turnip metagame could develop much more' - hmmmmmmmm I see

Personally, I'd prefer to see Peach's '2nd jump' metagame develop more

 

[Sky Pirate]

Pits don't need that logic. They need results. Because that's all the tier list will ever be based upon and not simple common sense. Which ironically if we used more common sense, we'd be able to see that Pit does fine in other regions and not just our own, including Europe and Japan. But we don't care about Japan, do we?

Kirby has. no one. NO ONE. (except for the lovable Kewwky). Pit has a legion of mains that can attest to match up spreads, data, and actual facts, not ring-around logic about "potential".

So you're saying that Pit has tons of representation and no good U.S. results, but Kirby has no representation and no good U.S. results?
No offense, but you just confused the hell out of me. Are you attacking Kirby or Pit?

 

[Conviction]

リップル、にほんご で オフ トピック を はなしましょぅ！

@Above post: Both LOL

 

[Espy Rose]

I agree. And the more consistently high results, the closer to being high tier, ie Fox/Wolf/Peach.

Except Peach's results don't trump Sonic's, and neither have pulled off major stuff in the same league as Wolf and Fox over the season, with the exception of Sonic's run at MLG Dallas.

I died. Would you mind if I sigged this?

I don't mind, really. Go for it.

Now, really? SONIC? I'm fine with this +2 deal but people are saying Sonic > Peach. Please man, that's pathetic everyone thinks so lowly without thinking about the cold hard facts. I understand he may be somewhat better than DK but no... Peach? Gimme a break. Dumb****s. -_-

So could someone please answer me why Fox and Wolf are leaps and bounds above peach? i mean with espy's (and to an extent some others) post of sonic should be above peach but should never be put up above wolf...makes it sound like fox and wolf should be the only ones in D tier and peach in E tier. Why is this ?

Sonic and Peach's match up spreads are nearly identical, and the two of them have identical results for the entirety of the season. Sonic has a one up in a major area in MLG Dallas' results, but Peach players DID technically outplace Sonic's at WHOBO3. In each respective region, Sonic and Peach are placing in the same area.

So from a match up and results perspective, the two are practically even.
I feel Sonic is better than Peach because besides those two factors, and aside from his one bad match up (Lucario, which you don't see too often in tournaments to begin with), he deals with most of top and high tier just fine. He doesn't struggle in tournaments any harder than Peach does.

The reason Sonic can't be above Wolf or Fox is because aside from Pikachu (again, not really common, and even then, the two characters have proven that the CG isn't the entire match up), Fox and Wolf seem to have a more appealing match up ratio with the rest of the common tournament characters in comparison to Sonic (something Peach doesn't have). Above that, they have also shown more success as the season progressed than Sonic has (again, something Peach doesn't have).

I can say that Sonic should be above Wolf or Fox all I want, but I wouldn't be able to prove that because I lack proof in results, match ups, and experience. This is not the same situation as Sonic has with Peach. That's why I feel like I can say Sonic > Peach, but not Sonic > Fox/Wolf.

Incidentially, this is exactly what happened with some of the match ups for Sonic in the MU Spreads from the BBR. There's no way ROB should be a -2, but he's labeled as such because there's no support other than my own word and personal experience.

The situations with Sonic and Peach, and Sonic and Fox/Wolf are completely different. You can argue one because you have evidence (results and general opinion of questionable BBR MU Ratios) and backing (Seagull, for example), while you can't argue the other because you completely lack all of those things.

Hope I helped answer your question.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Alright maybe i worded that poorly but my question wasnt why fox and wolf are above peach, i have yet to seen too much of fox and wolf yet to determine if i have any problems with this. My question is why does it sound like the gap between peach and the other two are so huge that sonic being above her is fine, but sonic being above wolf is ludacris? PM me or post with a actual explanation here please people D: It would be highly appreciated

This is what I said before to answer your question:


See whats in red. Done. So Peach players playing the same. Thats the characters fault? Thats why she sucks? What in the world is to say they all can't mix it up? Thats not the characters blame. it is the Players fault. Why are people just cowards and have giant egos that they can never blame themselves? Why don't they Z drop More? Why they a;lways gotta dsmash when one is near them out of fear, and not pay attention to shield so the enemy dont block the hit and get punished. Why don't Peach players save their floats when launched high and F-B twice to get center stage/ Why Peach players don't full hop there Dairs to get over the opponent when they short hop. and even stop gay **** like Meta Knight Dair camping?

She is the most techinical and versitale character in this game. And People get mad at me when I say no Peach player impresses me. Thats cause all just do the same ****. "Oh, but I placed high and beat fvdsjfvgsdjgfvsdgjofgsdu" Ok? I don't care. Good **** to you but you played non mixable. Same **** people gone seen for years and know how to deal with.

People can get tight and flame me all they want. But Peach players are not on the same skill level as these other characters players that go in. I stay watching countless videos or all sorts of Peach players. I dont see anything out the box.

I figured smart players would know about this. I came from melee. And melee players know about this. Player comes first, then charater. I was playing meta knight yesterday. My Meta is so Garbage. I was losing easy *** math ups. And he is the best in the game. Idk when people will learn that the player comes before character. Not vice versa.

 

[Tesh]

Dark Peach is right.

All Peach players are stupid and all Wolf players are smart. Metaknight players are probably smart too in that same way.

 

[stingers]

peach has so many options, none of them overpowering. its hard to use her =[

 

[BSP]

Everything Espy said applies to DK as well, but possibly moreso in Sonic's favor. IMO

Everyone forgets WGF V for some reason

 

[RoanYagyu]

Thank you both dark peach and Espy for the explainations =] I greatly appreciate it

 

[Dark.Pch]

I know you Tesh trolling but this gives me a chance to clear something up. There is a different with not being a smart player and also not playing smart. There is always times when you have even seen top players do some stupid ****. But people tend to take what I say about Peach players insulting (go figure)

Like Not to long ago. I was playing some diddy on wifi. You know how I played this dude? All I did was just Float and dair him all day. I lost the game for that. he can just roll away or run away then throw a naner at me easy. and thats all he did for me playing typical. Instead of just waiting and chilling out I did not pay attention to his playstyle, I did not pay attention to his habits or how he reacts when I went near him. And I never abused the Fact that when I get near him, he always rolled behind me.

I already know what to do and how to handle diddy. And I even broke the players habits down. But did I play by it? No. A played basic HOPING it would work cause I really didi not feel like thinking much in the match to win. I do this **** alot when I know better. So I can have a big dunce cap on my head and smile like a moron.

This happens alot to the rest. Sometimes they depend on luck cause Peach has good qualities. But don't pay much attention to the downside of it. Thus you see just about the same playstyle or the same thing for all of them. Nothing new. And people already know how to deal with this. So why not switch it up and hit them with something different. So Much **** and mix ups Peach has. But people just don't wanna work that hard.

They ether be lazy or just can't keep that focus stamina up. And just start to depend on luck. the fact that Peach has so much **** to work with and do can make a person go bonkers. But who's fault is that. it is not Peach Fault. The player can actually do all this. They choose not cause "dsfawdfasgdfhsalgi" Thats a player problem. They don't wanna go that extra mile knowing they MUST. HAVE TOO. IF THEY WANNA DESTROY.

Thus, the image of Peach that we have today and the stupid **** people say still goes on. Aint no one to blame but the players. if Peaches were to finally but in work like their life is on the line, they we see some ****. This is why I gave up caring about her on the list and what people say about her on it. They can put her below ganon for all I care. Words aint gonna change **** in this messed up community. And people will keep saying the dumb **** like they have in this thread. So I just chill and laugh at all these post relating to Peach now.

And please, I preach all this but don't think I exclude myself from it all. I might be one of the biggiest scrub examples for this. But the thing is, I can actually admit it and not be clouded by ego or hype. When I start doing **** right with this character over and over, I'll take and give myself more credit same with the others. But until then. I'm just a Peach player that seriously needs to get busy or else I'll keep placing like **** and lose to just about everyone.

 

[Good Ol' Tree]

Tier list meets expectations.

Except for the obvious Snake deal.

lulz

 

[Tesh]

I know you Tesh trolling but this gives me a chance to clear something up. There is a different with not being a smart player and also not playing smart. There is always times when you have even seen top players do some stupid ****. But people tend to take what I say about Peach players insulting (go figure)

Like Not to long ago. I was playing some diddy on wifi. You know how I played this dude? All I did was just Float and dair him all day. I lost the game for that. he can just roll away or run away then throw a naner at me easy. and thats all he did for me playing typical. Instead of just waiting and chilling out I did not pay attention to his playstyle, I did not pay attention to his habits or how he reacts when I went near him. And I never abused the Fact that when I get near him, he always rolled behind me.

I already know what to do and how to handle diddy. And I even broke the players habits down. But did I play by it? No. A played basic HOPING it would work cause I really didi not feel like thinking much in the match to win. I do this **** alot when I know better. So I can have a big dunce cap on my head and smile like a moron.

This happens alot to the rest. Sometimes they depend on luck cause Peach has good qualities. But don't pay much attention to the downside of it. Thus you see just about the same playstyle or the same thing for all of them. Nothing new. And people already know how to deal with this. So why not switch it up and hit them with something different. So Much **** and mix ups Peach has. But people just don't wanna work that hard.

They ether be lazy or just can't keep that focus stamina up. And just start to depend on luck. the fact that Peach has so much **** to work with and do can make a person go bonkers. But who's fault is that. it is not Peach Fault. The player can actually do all this. They choose not cause "dsfawdfasgdfhsalgi" Thats a player problem. They don't wanna go that extra mile knowing they MUST. HAVE TOO. IF THEY WANNA DESTROY.

Thus, the image of Peach that we have today and the stupid **** people say still goes on. Aint no one to blame but the players. if Peaches were to finally but in work like their life is on the line, they we see some ****. This is why I gave up caring about her on the list and what people say about her on it. They can put her below ganon for all I care. Words aint gonna change **** in this messed up community. And people will keep saying the dumb **** like they have in this thread. So I just chill and laugh at all these post relating to Peach now.

And please, I preach all this but don't think I exclude myself from it all. I might be one of the biggiest scrub examples for this. But the thing is, I can actually admit it and not be clouded by ego or hype. When I start doing **** right with this character over and over, I'll take and give myself more credit same with the others. But until then. I'm just a Peach player that seriously needs to get busy or else I'll keep placing like **** and lose to just about everyone.

The funny thing is that you talk about all the mistakes Peach players make, without acknowledging the mistakes Wolf, Sonic, Donkey Kong and Pit players make. Smaller risks and greater rewards are what make a good character, which is why Wolf is better than Peach. You can play just as smart with Wolf as with Peach and get a greater result. And that doesn't make Peach complex or technical or difficult to use, it just makes her bad.

 

[Dr. R.O.Botnik]

This list surprised me. The last two have just kind of been minor rearrangements of the characters for the most part, but this is a significantly different list.

 

[Dark.Pch]

The funny thing is that you talk about all the mistakes Peach players make, without acknowledging the mistakes Wolf, Sonic, Donkey Kong and Pit players make. Smaller risks and greater rewards are what make a good character, which is why Wolf is better than Peach. You can play just as smart with Wolf as with Peach and get a greater result. And that doesn't make Peach complex or technical or difficult to use, it just makes her bad.

Uh, Why would I break down characters that don't matter to me nor am I getting at? I have yet to even go in on why Peach is better than wolf. I'll shut the damm communities game down on this. But looks like I might have too cause so far I am just hearing BS on why Peach is better. Same as to why wolf is better.

 

[xDD-Master]

Good Tier List overall, even though I still disagree with some things.

DDD/ZSS imo Top Tier.
No High Tier IMO. (I would name Top Tier -> High Tier)
Lucario/Gaw/Tink also Mid Tier.
Sheik in E-Tier.
F-Tier part of Low Tier.

Olimar/ICs/Wario are probably better than Marth, hard to say. It's OK for now, especially when looking at european results.

 

[Tesh]

Top Tier is Metaknight obviously since thats the tier.....on top.

 

[Krystedez]

So you're saying that Pit has tons of representation and no good U.S. results, but Kirby has no representation and no good U.S. results?
No offense, but you just confused the hell out of me. Are you attacking Kirby or Pit?

You essentially did two things:

1. You answered your own question (the first one)
2.) I'm not attacking anyone. What's so confusing about "Pit doesn't have the best U.S. results, but has results nonetheless, while Kirby barely has any mains in the first place."

My point was that Kirby should be below Pit if anything because of this, and we also have the matchup spread, matchup knowledge, matchup experience and data to prove it, while Kirby has... Chudat from the past and Kewwky of the future :]

 

[Sinister Slush]

DK he *****, Ganon and Bowser as well. The others yes.

His MU spread is too evenish lol. He doesn't lose to most of top tier, but he's not pulling any real advantages on them either. Most of his MU's are 55:45 either character's favor up there, Snake being debatable but probably just 55:45.

MK Marth are obvious. Snake is fairly even, same with Pika Olimar. IC... god knows what that MU is. Ideally probably slight IC favor, on a more realistic note where Nana gets *****, 55:45 Wario. Falco could win that, don't see that being past 6:4 ever though.


I think Wario is in the general right place so far. The 3 characters under him all certainly have the potential to be better (IC's for sure), Some of their MU's seem really undecided though. Pika for example, what IS the Pika vs MK MU? Does he beat Snake? How hard is his MU with IC's? Does he go evenish with Diddy or does Diddy win? What about Marth? Or Oli, how does he really do vs MK or Diddy or Falco or etc? Those seem much harder to "pin down" than general **** like Wario vs Diddy is 55:45 or yeah Wario sucks vs Marth.


I could see Olimar above Wario. I think Pika is the short end of the top tier stick. His range being comparable to Wario's does not fare him well when it comes to gay spacing ****, and I think that will tend to keep him from dominating.

All this and I see Yoshi nowhere... What do you think about the Yoshi Vs Wario MU DMG?

Dark Peach is right.

All Peach players are stupid and all Wolf players are smart. Metaknight players are probably smart too in that same way.

A handful of smart MK players... but the few stupid ones that think characters like Yoshi is 55:45/-1?

 

[Thebest1pj]

tl aint mid tier?

welp there goes the mid tier tourney money

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Yo, Peach mains, I dare you to start devising some way and practicing hard to 2-3 stock Wolves. Make sure you guys record your MMs and tourney matches. That will speak leagues more than a few forum posts. Although it isn't a tier list thread without some heated debate...

As a Lucario main I am quite thrilled and surprised that we outrank Dedede now. We're right back where we started. Step it up, Dedede mains, I know you guys are better than you've shown the past 9 months.