Official BBR Tier List v5

[Orion*]

Lucario's easy to time out because he's slow as ****.

all of his options for approaching are individually kinda bad. but he has a lot of things he can mix up with.

also aura hurts lucario as much as it helps. you just need to keep in mind his base power as 75% damage at even stocks :U

Pretty much adding to what I was saying. I can agree with all of this

well theres SOME shield-drop frame delay you cant input a jump and cancel it into a smash in 0 frames >_<

1. 1 frame.
upB is instant.

GJ holmes at not knowing enough about the basic mechanics first :x

1. Were sitting here on the internet arguing about video games, Id say that just as far from the 'real world' as a high school debate team anyway.

Fair enough...
But I still think the fact that you Choose what to argue or whatever should be taken into account. Especially over long *** periods of time, despite what I joke about and what many people think. Your opinion does in fact matter, however it's up to each individual to make that a positive or negative influence upon their perceived character.

2. I didnt really say it was okay, but if someones going to be wrong either way, I'd rather have someone put some effort and thought into their opinions and stances, instead of being ******** ignorant jackholes about it. [/COLOR]

I agree however, especially on SWF. It's gotten to the point where people just write **** and are so stubborn that it doesn't matter anyway. They just want to debate to win instead of actually helping the community, and it doesn't really help anyone.

if you are going to tell someone to look into things and figure out what they are talking about, you cant be mad at them just because they come to a different conclusion than you. everyone processes things differently.

I'm not mad at that. Moreso mad when people are stubborn. I'm wrong all the time both in my IRL life, and in Videogames. I just go to correct myself, or if I clearly **** up I will say so. Instead of either just ignoring or not replying

What did I gain from this excercise?
Nothing really. But it doesnt beg the question, When I look at that list, why do people think snake is bad now?

If there was any point to me typing that large as wall, you completely missed it. The whole exercise was to prove that I think people think to 1 dimensional

edit:

hype to steam and browny for not replying to my points LOL

 

[Shaya]

Would you please get out of Marth's vagina? I can't think of one time that Marth was known as a gimping machine. Mario, Sonic, Diddy, Pit and hell even Olimar are better at gimping than Marth. Diddy has better shield options than Marth. Please stop with this Marth fanboyism.

You sound upset.
Agree on the diddy has better shield options.
But diddy is broken.
The rest of what you said was funny.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Fixed. All Snake has is weight, hitbox data and damage output. Most the other areas that MK is first Diddy and Falco still beat him out.

I dont know who said it first, but I think it was orion that said that the main reason snake is good is because he has the best risk/reward ratio in the game. even Mk has to act more cautiously then snake sometime just because mk dies at 100 and snake dies at 150.

People don't like Marth's gimping potential or shield options?

not when mks are 5 times better.

Fair enough...
But I still think the fact that you Choose what to argue or whatever should be taken into account. Especially over long *** periods of time, despite what I joke about and what many people think. Your opinion does in fact matter, however it's up to each individual to make that a positive or negative influence upon their perceived character.

agreed

2. I didnt really say it was okay, but if someones going to be wrong either way, I'd rather have someone put some effort and thought into their opinions and stances, instead of being ******** ignorant jackholes about it.

I agree however, especially on SWF. It's gotten to the point where people just write **** and are so stubborn that it doesn't matter anyway. They just want to debate to win instead of actually helping the community, and it doesn't really help anyone.

I'm not mad at that. Moreso mad when people are stubborn. I'm wrong all the time both in my IRL life, and in Videogames. I just go to correct myself, or if I clearly **** up I will say so. Instead of either just ignoring or not replying

very true.

If there was any point to me typing that large as wall, you completely missed it. The whole exercise was to prove that I think people think to 1 dimensional

well I knew that. I was just putting my own spin on it. And when you put all of those factors together, I still come to the conclusion that snake is still the second best character in the game, and I dont know why others dont too.

I think it might be because of the playstyles. Diddy gets one hit in and than hes all over you mauling you for the majority of your stock, so it feels like youre getting beat worse than you actually are. Whereas with snake, hes ususally very slow and methodical with his actions. And the fact that hes not on top of your face all the time like diddy is (both literally and figuratively) gives people the impression that they arent losing as bad as they really are. which makes people feel like diddy is stronger than snake when in actuality most diddys are just taking advantage of the fact that they (the character and the player) are faster than the other guy.

Thats just what it seems like to me.

You sound upset.
Agree on the diddy has better shield options.
But diddy is broken.
The rest of what you said was funny.

I thought this was just a fad at first, but youre going to keep saying that arent you?

 

[Steam]

@orion- I thought I did reply to your points... if I didn't I probably just agreed with them

@Ish- but if you look at marth's results compared to usage... he's doing about as well as Lucario, D3, ZSS

and he also rarely shows up deep in bracket at nationals. Olimar and Pikachu place far better at those.

 

[Spelt]

The rest of what you said was funny.

When i first read this i thought it said "furry", and i laughed.
and then i read it again, and it wasn't funny anymore.



Also, this thread is top notch right now.

TOP NOTCH.


SPELT, OUT~

 

[the king of murder]

So Ganon won a tournament. Discuss.

Fonz is just too good.

 

[Exceladon City]

You sound upset.
Agree on the diddy has better shield options.
But diddy is broken.
The rest of what you said was funny.

I'm annoyed because you insert into every topic when it doesn't pertain to him. Marth, contrary to your belief, is not godlike. Get used to it.

Finally, Spelt is gone.

 

[C.J.]

Err, @ KID/Halberd

Since when does Snake have a good frame/size. I was always under the impression that tall = bad. Olimar/Squirtle for best size/frames. Also Yoshi has better overall mobility than MK, imo. Definitely in the air at least. Ground maybe not.

Marth is one of the 2-4 characters in the game that can approach/has really good pokes. Idk how Snake was ever thrown into that category, lmao (inb4oreorage)

Also, how the HELL was Diddy not included in the shield/shield options category? *confused

 

[Spelt]

Marth is godlike.

 

[Ripple]

tall and skinny is a great frame design. it usually means you're above average weight and have a really good shield (although sometimes you get poked from low as opposed to in front/behind/above like DK or rob)

inb4zelda/sheik

 

[Steam]

tall and skinny is a great frame design. it usually means you're above average weight and have a really good shield (although sometimes you get poked from low as opposed to in front/behind/above like DK or rob)

inb4zelda/sheik

Marth is lighter than ivysaur. who weighs 18 pounds

 

[Ishiey]

Ishy, Allys Wolf is terrible

It's interesting. He can pull it off because he's Ally lol, basically. You know how it is, mains of a character are "better" but amazing players that use the character for the hell of it can perform better. If that makes sense.

@Ish- but if you look at marth's results compared to usage... he's doing about as well as Lucario, D3, ZSS

and he also rarely shows up deep in bracket at nationals. Olimar and Pikachu place far better at those.

I don't compare results to usage because there are a bunch of... bad people that use good characters, which can throw off the data, basically. More interested in seeing how the character places in the top 16. Someone compiled data on this before in the BBR and I'm pretty sure Marth was above Lucario etc., and that was only for the US results

Marth is lighter than ivysaur. who weighs 18 pounds

lol.

 

[Steam]

well marth is a better character than lucario so I'm not surprised. lol

 

[Spelt]

marth is #1

 

[ShadowLink84]

And that post was just FILLED with wit and purpose.

I don't believe anyone needs wit nor purpose to point out your stupidity Spelt.

Well, by his standards yes thats quite true and not sarcastic in the least.

Hmm? I am sorry I do not recall taking a crap on you recently.
IN fact, now that I think about it, you only recently started the whole, whiny, *****y, childish act when your application in the BBR did not result in your acceptance.
Hell, when I got accepted into the BBR you and the rest of Sonic chat was actually happy Espy and myself got in.

Salty man. Reminds me of K.I.D. whose grudge was based around the DDD infinite. Trifling people.

man

I don't have an issue with shadowlink84 (the sonic main), or really think he must be wrong on most of the things he says (I really don't know). but god... everything he says is just filled with so much *******ry, it's nearly painful.

I mean you can list your points, you don't have to be a condescending sounding *** at the same time

I must say people are exceptionally sensitive on the internet.
No, I am not being insulting towards you, it is an observation since, well, I am rather easy going and pretty cool in person.
On the internet, people take what is said and feel they are being attacked or insulted.
I am straight to the point, and rarely do I toss out insults unless other's do so as well. Just how I am.

sonic being high tier probably isn't true, but it's not THAT unbelievable with the results he's gotten lately.

It is very unbelievable since Sonic simply does not have the MU spread, not the characteristics of a high tier character.
While his results have been amazing for a character of his tier, it also has to do with how his gameplay works.

Sonic is not very good on paper. We all know the reasons why so I will not bother listing them.
It is his strengths, however that make him stand out since while they are not amazing on paper, when they are applied in tournament, the result is pretty amazing.
Sonic takes advantage of factors one cannot accurately apply in a discussion.
Being able to maintain your options even in the middle of an approach is a big plus in tournament because of the effect it has on your opponent.

people's opinions change, and pointing out what someone's opinion was really doesn't discredit anything, since opinions usually change for the better.

I disagree, it relies upon the context.
Some people just are not very reliable when it comes to providing their opinion on a tierlist simply because of how much they allow their own difficulties influence their decision.

And I could see Wario being 5th after the MK/Snake/Falco/Diddy group

Agreed, although personally, I cannot see other characters being viable for the 5th seat.

 

[Spelt]

Oh shadowlink, I miss you acting like people care about your opinions.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Oh shadowlink, I miss you acting like people care about your opinions.

Hmm? People care for my opinions?
If yes, hey +1 for me.
If no, hey +1 for me.

 

[z00ted]

Too evil for heaven, too good for hell. ****

 

[Shaya]

I thought this was just a fad at first, but youre going to keep saying that arent you?

Do people really not see that while MK has degenerative tactics that are at this point restricted in competitive play (even if there are often grey areas) there exists Diddy Kong's extremely potent range of FANTASTIC options that exceed just about anyone else in the cast...

MK may have really good options (some of the best), but Diddy literally has... the same or more in every situation bar recovering/ledges/wonky stages (wonky stages don't exist in your rule sets any more kk). When people realise that this game literally has the apex of stupidity that cannot be restricted without something facetious like 'max 1 banana' you have a broken character.

In some ways one could describe Ice Climbers, Marth and Falco as having broken mechanics. However, Diddy Kong literally has more of them than those 3 characters while all of them being extremely safe - in other words extremely practical to use brokenness. Falco's risk to reward is better than ICs/Marth, but what he has just isn't as good as diddys - who has similar reward but even less risk.

Also inb4 marth's vagina, but a generally long range 10 frame uber kill move plus a 5 frame invincible dp oos are extremely potent things that theoretically if always pulled off correctly "can't lose".

How many practical things does diddy have that relegates him to a 'can't lose' status? How many of those things does MK have that aren't banned/restricted at this point?

 

[Chris the Ripper]

Tiers are for queers

 

[Conviction]

Tiers are for queers

OMG, keep your stupidity confined to the SSB4 thread.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Err, @ KID/Halberd

Since when does Snake have a good frame/size. I was always under the impression that tall = bad. Olimar/Squirtle for best size/frames. Also Yoshi has better overall mobility than MK, imo. Definitely in the air at least. Ground maybe not.

snakes tall size would be a detrement IF it werent for that whole little, 'he was supposed to be bigger but they scaled him down and left his tilts as if they didnt' oversight...

theres also the whole snake crouching is only bigger than kirby, puff and GaW thing too.

Marth is one of the 2-4 characters in the game that can approach/has really good pokes. Idk how Snake was ever thrown into that category, lmao (inb4oreorage)

f tilt.

Also, how the HELL was Diddy not included in the shield/shield options category? *confused

Because just like like almost every other positive quality your character has in this game, meta knight has it, and can do it better too.

Do people really not see that while MK has degenerative tactics that are at this point restricted in competitive play (even if there are often grey areas) there exists Diddy Kong's extremely potent range of FANTASTIC options that exceed just about anyone else in the cast...

MK may have really good options (some of the best), but Diddy literally has... the same or more in every situation bar recovering/ledges/wonky stages (wonky stages don't exist in your rule sets any more kk). When people realise that this game literally has the apex of stupidity that cannot be restricted without something facetious like 'max 1 banana' you have a broken character.

In some ways one could describe Ice Climbers, Marth and Falco as having broken mechanics. However, Diddy Kong literally has more of them than those 3 characters while all of them being extremely safe - in other words extremely practical to use brokenness. Falco's risk to reward is better than ICs/Marth, but what he has just isn't as good as diddys - who has similar reward but even less risk.

diddy has a ton of very good options for most situations, but youre ignoring the fact that bananas also open up a great deal of options for the opponent as well. when mk tornados you, you dont get to throw a little kirby tornado back at him. when diddy pulls out bananas that gives you the ability to take at least one of them and have for the most part, the same powerful options that he has. even though its a given that the diddy is going to be much more adept with said options, you cant overlook the other side either.

Also inb4 marth's vagina, but a generally long range 10 frame uber kill move plus a 5 frame invincible dp oos are extremely potent things that theoretically if always pulled off correctly "can't lose".

1. I can clank marths f smash with sonics jab. sure, you didnt lose, but youre not really winning in that case either...
2. every DP ever made loses to block.

 

[Shaya]

I kinda banged my head hard with my palm from that response kid...

 

[Exceladon City]

1. I can clank marths f smash with sonics jab. sure, you didnt lose, but youre not really winning in that case either...
2. every DP ever made loses to block.

Especially Marth's. He's left wide open. MK can atleast glide away. Face it Shaya, Marth is bunz.

 

[san.]

"generally long range 10 frame uber kill move"

Thought you were talking about Ike's bair, but that's 7 frames.

 

[Exceladon City]

"generally long range 10 frame uber kill move"

Thought you were talking about Ike's bair, but that's 7 frames.

San, either we're being trolled or Shaya is that ****ing delusional...

 

[Tesh]

Marth really isn't as good as people seem to think apparently. At some point you DO have to look at results and see that he loses to alot of characters.

 

[_Kain_]

Marth really isn't as good as people seem to think apparently. At some point you DO have to look at results and see that he loses to alot of characters.

Who like MK? LOL man you people need to wake up already most MU's other than *insert char* vs MK barely ever happens so how do you know who exactly Marth loses to when you never really see the MU played out? Even worse played out by top players of said character? This tier list discussion is a joke I swear. You all always provide good laughs though

 

[san.]

It's something to pass the time.

I like hearing other people's opinions of characters, and giving out my own ideas and tactics about characters I know about.

 

[Spelt]

+1

You're right.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Too evil for heaven, too good for hell. ****

Oh god don't remind me of that thing being there XD.
It was the last time I EVER left my laptop alone with my ex girlfriend.

I don't think I can even change it Q_Q
Edit: I COULD CHANGE IT!? DX

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Lucas i a tpretty bad aharcter. He shold be lisagty lowe,

 

[da K.I.D.]

Who like MK? LOL man you people need to wake up already most MU's other than *insert char* vs MK barely ever happens so how do you know who exactly Marth loses to when you never really see the MU played out? Even worse played out by top players of said character? This tier list discussion is a joke I swear. You all always provide good laughs though

this is kinda all over the place. when you say 'you all' are you talking about the people in this thread or the bbr? cus the people in this thread dont make the tier list and the people who make the tier list arent here to entertain you for the most part.

 

[Nike.]

Would you please get out of Marth's vagina? I can't think of one time that Marth was known as a gimping machine. Mario, Sonic, Diddy, Pit and hell even Olimar are better at gimping than Marth. Diddy has better shield options than Marth. Please stop with this Marth fanboyism.

lmfao
ARE YOU HIGH?!?

 

[z00ted]

Oh god don't remind me of that thing being there XD.
It was the last time I EVER left my laptop alone with my ex girlfriend.

I don't think I can even change it Q_Q
Edit: I COULD CHANGE IT!? DX

looool

wowwww xD

 

[Judo777]

Diddy does not have better options than MK in almost every position. Unlike MK Diddy sometimes has to airdodge. The other thing is that MK ALWAYS has his great options, diddy has his good options once then he has to go pick it back up again. Diddy has arguably as good options WITH PROPER PREPARATION, MK has his without even thinking sometimes on accident.

So when you think about Diddy has great options until he loses his banana, which he throws everytime he uses one of his great options. So diddy has a good option provided the banana toss lands but if it misses he needs to get the other one or he is extremely limited.

Also Oreo I must say Marth is very much so a gimping machine. He is the only character in the game that I think might gimp better than Sheik other than the obvious MK.

 

[z00ted]

Shaya, that was such a bad post.

 

[Spelt]

Lucas i a tpretty bad aharcter. He shold be lisagty lowe,

best post in this thread.
ever.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Marth really isn't as good as people seem to think apparently. At some point you DO have to look at results and see that he loses to alot of characters.

Nah we can just keep pretending he beats everyone

 

[_Kain_]

this is kinda all over the place. when you say 'you all' are you talking about the people in this thread or the bbr? cus the people in this thread dont make the tier list and the people who make the tier list arent here to entertain you for the most part.

People who condescend and try to talk like they know the game when they suck and actually don't know it either. Double whammy status. People trying to say Marth sucks when there's only one real good Marth player in the US and pretty sure we have not seen him play every MU. Same with every character since every character only really has one solid main. So how do we know how said chars stack up if all we really see is how they do against MK for the most part?