Official BBR Tier List v5

[Exceladon City]

Juushichi wins the thread for the month.

 

[Die !]

Juushichi wins the thread for the month.

Clearly replying to something not on topic and saying /thread is praise worthy

/sarcasm

 

[Gamegenie222]

Pika's gay we should talk about Lucario or Marth.

 

[stingers]

lucario and marth are a lot gayer than pika

lucario especially...

 

[Gamegenie222]

I rather take a beating from a blue furry with spikes on his chest than a rodent chaingrabbing me all day. Also we should talk about Game & Watch.

 

[Die !]

I rather take a beating from a blue furry with spikes on his chest than a rodent chaingrabbing me all day. Also we should talk about Game & Watch.

I'd rather discuss Chars. worth talking about

 

[Gonzalo Barrios]

lucario and marth are a lot gayer than pika

lucario especially...

I Agree, But Pikachu has a really good CG now.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Not much can be said about Game and Watch. No new tricks have been developed for him, and now it's just a matter of getting better as a player and work with GW's strengths better. He hits like a train, he'll keep you away all day with Nair and Bair, and he's got a great "get-away" move in dtilt, and a techchase game. But with his best kill moves being readily avoided now, he can't get many kills with anything aside from a surprise Fair, a wayward Dair, a lucky 9, Dsmash's sourspot, or a hard read on a techchase.

Kaak recently "revealed" some tricks of his now that he's quit, but they're not truly exciting or gamebreaking.

That said, I don't think he's mid-tier material. With a LGL installed, he's probably at the bottom of high, with Lucario, Zamus, and Toon Link surpassing him. Without a LGL, he's probably good where he is right now.

 

[Espy Rose]

I Agree, But Pikachu has a really good CG now.

What do you mean now? Pikachu's always had chaingrabs to begin with.
They're just starting to finally use them right.

Because really, that's all Pikachu has. Chaingrabs.

 

[KenniSpam!]

dangit, i was hoping i had time to get post #9001

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol @ all pikachu has is CGs,

and all ddd is is down throw.

and mk really doesnt have anything besides shuttle loop and tornado

and the only move ike has is jab.

 

[Espy Rose]

lol @ the implication that Pikachu has anything else.

 

[DanGR]

I don't really understand the Smash community's obsession with characters with poor attack range. Time and time again players of these characters perform well 'early on' and then sort of fall off the charts later. I think you guys'll realize Pikachu is actually pretty limited against the better characters in the game sooner or later. In that regard, the chaingrab is super important to pika's success, I think. It's a pretty big obstacle. :<

 

[_Kain_]

If you eliminate Pika's CGs most of his MU's with everyone go drastically down, especially with spacies, snake, and MK

 

[Die !]

I don't really understand the Smash community's obsession with characters with poor attack range. Time and time again players of these characters end up performing well early on and then sort of fall off the charts later on. I think you guys'll realize Pikachu is actually pretty limited sooner or later. :<

Except Pikachu can get in your face if need be and has a spamable projectile
Also I just don't see eSams performance declining any time soon so im 99% sure pikachu will stay on the "charts"

 

[Deleted member]

If you eliminate Pika's CGs most of his MU's with everyone go drastically down, especially with spacies, snake, and MK

Pretty much this. Pikachu thrives from his chaingrabs. Nothing else about the character is that amazing.

Inb4zomgQAC!

 

[Gonzalo Barrios]

What do you mean now? Pikachu's always had chaingrabs to begin with.
They're just starting to finally use them right.

Because really, that's all Pikachu has. Chaingrabs.

That's what I mean.


Pikachu has: Great recovery, a really good projectile, and a good chaingrab.

Pretty much his ability to CG chars and to camp when he needs to is the reason why hes so high in the list and that edgeguarding pikachu it's really hard or situational. IMO

I agree alot with this new BBR tier list v5.

 

[deepseadiva]

I always thought Thunderjolt was pretty bad.

Slow with obvious trajectory. I really don't see it as flexible either.

Maybe damage is good?

 

[Gonzalo Barrios]

I always thought Thunderjolt was pretty bad.

Slow with obvious trajectory. I really don't see it as flexible either.

Maybe damage is good?

He can spam it. It's also a very safe projectile to do and no thunderjolt doesn't hit too much. Unless it's in the Air which in that case hits 9-6% which is alot for a projectile itself.

 

[Ussi]

If you eliminate Pika's CGs most of his MU's with everyone go drastically down, especially with spacies, snake, and MK

MK's CG is situational as Pika no way to guarantee a grab at 10% on MK when it only goes to 40% anyways.. MU won't change too much without the CG

 

[_Kain_]

MK's CG is situational as Pika no way to guarantee a grab at 10% on MK when it only goes to 40% anyways.. MU won't change too much without the CG

It can't be that situational if almost every vid of ESAM at MLG vs an MK he almost always gets one every stock. But yeah it isn't MU changing but it does give Pika a good % guaranteed lead on MK if he gets it off

 

[da K.I.D.]

also, dont momentum cancel up tilt or up smash or else you die at 70 I always thought that was a convinient aspect of that character as well.

 

[-LzR-]

I used to get ***** by thunder until I learned to not momentumcancel those. Suddenly I ****.

 

[deepseadiva]

He can spam it really quickly, and it's also a very safe projectile to do and yes thunderjolt hits pretty hard for a projectile.

Max Damage: 9%, 6% (stronger in the air) / Min Damage: 4%, 3%
Startup: 1-18 / Active: 19 (ground jolt lasts 100 frames; air jolt lasts 99 frames) / Cooldown: 20-58

58 frames in total?

Peach pulls turnips twice as fast. Maybe I'm missing an autocancel window?

 

[Seagull Joe]

You people are insane. You're basically saying outliers determine the tier list. Based on that Reflex would make Pt top tier and so would Polter with Yoshi.

Whoever said Ic's are worst then they are is a moron. Ic's can only get better, but people have stopped using them. I still remember the days when Meep was unbeatable, but he got bored of everyone complaining about infinites this and infinites that, so he now uses Fox.

Ic's completely destroy Olimar and GaW. Why would Olimar go above Ic's when he loses that matchup by such a large margin.

What are people's opinion on Marth? I think Marth is pretty decent and only loses to Mk and D3. But he isn't solid enough to win nationals and regionals because of his lack of ways of killing And Mk being quite prominent.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi could be top tier if he had a normal shield

 

[ErikG]

If you eliminate Pika's CGs most of his MU's with everyone go drastically down, especially with spacies, snake, and MK

This is irrelevant. Pikachu is still a solid character. He still has his mobility, projectile, and edge guarding game.

The CG allows Pika to gain a lead and then he can play a really annoying defensive game.

I'm also not riding the ESAM hype train. I've always thought Pikachu is an underrated character.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

58 frames in total?

Peach pulls turnips twice as fast. Maybe I'm missing an autocancel window?

Peach can't pull turnips in the air, and Pikachu can move left or right while doing it, also varying his jump height prior. It's pretty damn safe, at least. Squirtle's Water Gun would be so bad if he couldn't move while doing it in mid-air.

Pikachu can also chase after Thunder Jolt with specific spacing.

 

[Z'zgashi]

^^^ Pikachu can also wavebounce his.

 

[_Kain_]

This is irrelevant. Pikachu is still a solid character. He still has his mobility, projectile, and edge guarding game.

The CG allows Pika to gain a lead and then he can play a really annoying defensive game.

I'm also not riding the ESAM hype train. I've always thought Pikachu is an underrated character.

It is relevant because if he didn't have it he wouldn't be where he's at. Is he not where he's at because he does good against said characters? If he was not would he still b there? NO. He's still a good character yes, but saying his CG doesn't play a part of it is just plain ignorant.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

She can move left or right whilst pulling Turnips

Although can you imagine air Turnip pulls lol

Anyway, there are a lot better projectiles than Thunder Jolt . I've always wondered - what DOES Pikachu have apart from chaingrabs? Like, nothing else of his minus Thunder and QA really stands out

 

[deepseadiva]

Peach can't pull turnips in the air, and Pikachu can move left or right while doing it, also varying his jump height prior. It's pretty damn safe, at least. Squirtle's Water Gun would be so bad if he couldn't move while doing it in mid-air.

Pikachu can also chase after Thunder Jolt with specific spacing.

Agreed, it's pretty safe and mobile. I just wouldn't describe it as "really quick", as it has been.

 

[Z'zgashi]

If Olimar could pull pikmin in the air...

 

[phi1ny3]

Best move in the game is DK's aerial downB

 

[Steam]

Pretty much this. Pikachu thrives from his chaingrabs. Nothing else about the character is that amazing.

Inb4zomgQAC!

This describes D3 much more more than it does pika IMO

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This describes D3 much more more than it does pika IMO

Dedede has the fastest fastfall, an obscene grab range with little inherent risk to use, some great aerials (seriously, does B-Air actually have cooldown?), many strong and safe KO moves, great roll distance, and a busted z-axis spotdodge. There's a lot going for Dedede.

Anyway, there are a lot better projectiles than Thunder Jolt . I've always wondered - what DOES Pikachu have apart from chaingrabs? Like, nothing else of his minus Thunder and QA really stands out

Pikachu is just terribly safe, and isn't really lacking in much of anything. One of the best recoveries in the game (Meta Knight-proof!), a safe projectile that deals solid damage, a fantastic camping ability, a chaingrab that greatly rewards getting that first grab in, and safe, powerful KO moves. Pikachu is a little bit of everything, basically, with the chaingrab boosting matchups against the characters who thrive on their own extremes. No major weaknesses--Just a fundamentally great character.

 

[Steam]

I dunno, characters who D3 can't CG have a tendency to **** him while he counters many good characters he does CG. D3's CG by itself makes a few characters unviable if infinites aren't banned.

D3 doesn't have a solid kill move outside of utilt... : / tons of D3 offstage kills get setup by the CG as well.

 

[Gonzalo Barrios]

Agreed, it's pretty safe and mobile. I just wouldn't describe it as "really quick", as it has been.

lol, ok I agree by the frame data.

I "dismiss" my really quick comment lol

 

[Gonzalo Barrios]

Pikachu is just terribly safe, and isn't really lacking in much of anything. One of the best recoveries in the game (Meta Knight-proof!), a safe projectile that deals solid damage, a fantastic camping ability, a chaingrab that greatly rewards getting that first grab in, and safe, powerful KO moves. Pikachu is a little bit of everything, basically, with the chaingrab boosting matchups against the characters who thrive on their own extremes. No major weaknesses--Just a fundamentally great character.

This is exactly what i wanted to say.

 

[Tagxy]

I don't really understand the Smash community's obsession with characters with poor attack range. Time and time again players of these characters perform well 'early on' and then sort of fall off the charts later. I think you guys'll realize Pikachu is actually pretty limited against the better characters in the game sooner or later. In that regard, the chaingrab is super important to pika's success, I think. It's a pretty big obstacle. :<

It sounds like you drastically overrate range, lol. If this were the case Olimar for God tier, Ike for A, and Wario and Falco for D tier . Characters like Rob and DDD fell off in spite of their great range because they were immobile and slow. Also pikachus done well since the beginning, theres no early on.

Aside from MLG, his tournament results are terrible. The whole top half of mid tier have better results than him. It's been this way for a long time yet he's been 9th for the past three tier list.

Its not insignificant, but the context is still important. Theyre terrible if you ignore the fact that very few people play him. Even more context, all his better players arent frequent tournament attendees including ESAM, Anther, Pikpiks, and the 5 or 10 people below them. I think Roller (and maybe you?) is the only one who goes more then once a month. These factors are also important, and if you could include them in the data Pika would probably perform above his position.