Official BBR Recommended Rule Set 3.1

[Browny]

If lucas can hit you out of whatever youre doing with PK thunder, you cant call it entirely invulnerable

 

[SaveMeJebus]

How do you guys feel about changing the timer from 8 min to 10 min. I feel that there are some matches in brawl that no matter how close you are to taking your last opponent's stock, you just can't seem to land a killing move. Then before you know it, it comes down to the last 15 sec and the best option for you to do is to run. I have done this to opponents before and they have done it to me. I would rather finish a match than have to run away for 30 sec to get the victory and 2 extra minutes would be just the right amount of time to finish the match.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well, it's certainly not illegitimate, as it's merely a change of an in-game setting. However, it's going to make tournaments way longer. It's, at most, an extra 6-12 minutes per set. That's time you could use striking from a bigger starter list.

 

[sunshade]

10 minutes is fine, I don't see how it is better than 8. Matches don't last 8 or 10 minutes unless one or both players are trying to time the other out or are being extremely defensive.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Well, it's certainly not illegitimate, as it's merely a change of an in-game setting. However, it's going to make tournaments way longer. It's, at most, an extra 6-12 minutes per set. That's time you could use striking from a bigger starter list.

This would only be true if one of the players is trying to time out the other player in every match. As we all know, not everyone that plays this game is going to go for the time out and most matches usually usually last about 6 minutes. This rule is intended for those matches were two characters with no kill moves or kill set ups have to fight each other and they don't have enough time to finish a match. Since we can't make a rule that allows a timer change for those situations alone, The rule should just be to increase the timer by two minutes.

 

[-Vocal-]

I think eight minute timers are fine. They haven't posed any significant problems thus far and the only reason to change it would be that you wish to see a different type of gameplay. As both times are arbitrary, I suppose if the majority of the Brawl community supported a 10 min timer then it could be changed, but until then I don't think anything needs to be done.

And @Shaya: Could Marth really remain entirely invulnerable for five minutes straight, hypothetically?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I think eight minute timers are fine. They haven't posed any significant problems thus far and the only reason to change it would be that you wish to see a different type of gameplay. As both times are arbitrary, I suppose if the majority of the Brawl community supported a 10 min timer then it could be changed, but until then I don't think anything needs to be done.

And @Shaya: Could Marth really remain entirely invulnerable for five minutes straight, hypothetically?

how do you make a poll to decide how many people would actually want to switch the rule set to 10 minutes?

 

[-Vocal-]

how do you make a poll to decide how many people would actually want to switch the rule set to 10 minutes?

You don't. You wait until a large segment of the community is advocating for it. If you wish to start such a movement, try going to the social or tactical threads on the community boards and asking to see if there is support there.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

You don't. You wait until a large segment of the community is advocating for it. If you wish to start such a movement, try going to the social or tactical threads on the community boards and asking to see if there is support there.

I thought they created this thread to stop people from making threads like these.

 

[-Vocal-]

I thought they created this thread to stop people from making threads like these.

>.>

GO TO THE SOCIAL OR TACTICAL THREADS. You missed that part. And you aren't going to get this changed without a majority - there is no other grounds on which to change it. Find your own way to make that happen if you feel so strongly about it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

or alternatively, you hold your own tourney with a ten minute timer. and than when people come and enjoy the rule, you tell them to spread it around and get other tourneys around them to adopt said rule

 

[-Vocal-]

or alternatively, you hold your own tourney with a ten minute timer. and than when people come and enjoy the rule, you tell them to spread it around and get other tourneys around them to adopt said rule

^Good suggestion right hur

 

[Shaya]

Well... all someone would have to do is speed hug him... so 5 minutes is a bit of a stretch.

 

[-Vocal-]

Well... all someone would have to do is speed hug him... so 5 minutes is a bit of a stretch.

Well if no one enjoys the rule specifically then nothing needs to be changed ^_^

 

[Judo777]

What happens if ganon ganoncides with top port and more than likely gets a tie then in the 1 stock tie breaker he suicides again getting another tie?

 

[Flayl]

It keeps going until someone gets a non-draw. I remember going to round 5 in street fighter (in a bo3), that was fun.

edit: Oh, do you mean what the game tells you? I'm not sure but I think Ganondorf loses. If someone doesn't post the result I'll test it myslef later.

 

[M]

What would be the general scene's opinion of music?

We've been getting complaints from players that the music makes it difficult to hear sounds such as c4 transfers.

 

[Tesh]

Tournaments tend to be pretty loud, i don't see why turning off music (or custom music) would make a difference if you feel the need to hear specific things.

 

[Jebu-95]

Well you can still always turn the "Sounds" volume up higher while decreasing the "Music" volume. I dont see a reason why turn off the music completely.

 

[deepseadiva]

lol

Best new anti-IC tactic: turning sound off, and putting music all the way up.

Timing ruined.

 

[-Vocal-]

It keeps going until someone gets a non-draw. I remember going to round 5 in street fighter (in a bo3), that was fun.

edit: Oh, do you mean what the game tells you? I'm not sure but I think Ganondorf loses. If someone doesn't post the result I'll test it myslef later.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283685

If it's an ordinary stock match, the same random factor applies; however, it would be logically feasible for him to do this repeatedly on character with a low or non-existant chance of victory from Ganoncide, such as Snake. Realistically though, this would never happen

 

[-LzR-]

Music johns too? What the hell is wrong with people.

 

[Flayl]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283685

If it's an ordinary stock match, the same random factor applies; however, it would be logically feasible for him to do this repeatedly on character with a low or non-existant chance of victory from Ganoncide, such as Snake. Realistically though, this would never happen

Why did you link this? You didn't test what happens in sudden death.

 

[-Vocal-]

Why did you link this? You didn't test what happens in sudden death.

Oh that's what you wanted to know? I sure wish someone had tested that...

\|/Theories\|/​

• Victory from Ganoncide is actually a glitch with an unknown cause. Support for this theory is gained from (of all places) Sudden Death: if a Ganoncide is performed during Sudden Death, the game will declare a victor based upon percentages, but there is still a chance of victim victory (with the accompanying 4% increase in percentage).

ZOMG IT WAS IN THAT LINK :O



So yea. Whenever Ganoncide would lead to Sudden Death, in Sudden Death it determines the victor by percentage; however, victim victory can still occur as it does outside of Sudden Death.

 

[Flayl]

You put it in the theory section -_____________-

 

[-Vocal-]

You put it in the theory section -_____________-

Because information about Sudden Death isn't relevant to gameplay Had it been an important discovery I would've drawn more attention to it, but there wasn't really a need.

 

[theunabletable]

Jigglypuff's Rising Pound is stalling because the opponent can't reach you.

Even though it's probably ridiculous and suicidal to try, you CAN reach MK while he's planking.

At what point is it that Jigglypuff's Rising Pound is considered stalling? Is it when you cannot hit Jiggs AT ALL?

Could I go to a tournament and just rising pound just baaaarely in reach of my opponent, so that if they want to hit me, I get a free gimp every time?

EDIT: Oh, **** it. I was reading the 30th page (which I thought was the last page in this thread) when I saw that, not this page, the 31st >_>

 

[John12346]

Music johns too? What the hell is wrong with people.

Could you imagine brstm hacks with Snake saying "NOW" randomly throughout each hacked song?

 

[Browny]

This is relevant

Since I got bored of this thread I may have missed it...

but if Sonics HA under the stage is not banned and ONLY the TO can call it as stalling, thats just ********. Here you are preaching the objectivity of rules and then suggest pure subjectivity to control it. If someone pays money to enter a tournament and the tourney is run by BBR rules with no mention whatsoever of HA I dont see any reason why it would remain DQ worthy, you cant just invent new rules (which this entirely is, the rule does not exist) after the tournament begins. If the TO states they dont want HA under the stage allowed well thats fine but I wonder why they would say that. Is it too much of an assumption to say the reason anyone is against it is because the BBR rules used to state that HA was banned, despite the fact it has since then been removed from the rules? People are running tourneys off mis-information, its not so much a case of they can do what they want, but people should be educated on this matter. You wouldnt agree to a TO banning ICGs if they had no idea how non-metagame breaking it is, I see no reason why this rule should stay in place either.

Tell me, what other tactics in this game are under the discretion of a TO to disqualify a player on which is not explicity stated? It seems like this ruleset is a really pathetic attempt to redirect disagreements onto something horribly outdated and wrong. A TO could cite this ruleset as an argument but at no stage has the BBR made it clear what they want on this matter, thats unfair to the player who may be using a perfectly fair, legitimate, beatable tactic but is banned by pure ignorance and subjectivity which the BBR promotes with the current stalling rule.

/hate

What I would like to know is why Sonics HA under the stage does not have a rule about it. Its clear there is a lot of ambiguity here, there is no reason why the BBR cant ammend the rules and simply state that HA under the stage is banned, or allowed. Nothing beneficial is gained by not stating their viewpoint on the matter. You cant tell the TO's to do what you want but the least you can do is give them advice on what is best for competition. Isnt that the reason the entire ruleset exists in the first place lol?

of course, if that ammendment happens to be that it is banned, well then this is going to continue for a lot longer than you would like

 

[-Vocal-]

I could agree to Homing Stall being banned. Although it doesn't make Sonic technically invincible like IDC does for MK, it's still a nearly unbeatable tactic if a character wants to live. I acknowledge that this opens the door for things subjectively defined as stalling to be banned, and I'm fine with opening that door.

 

[Browny]

The thing is, it isnt nearly unbeatable. It was never extensively tested. Yes its nearly unbeatable for characters like falco and IC's, but its no more powerful than planking is, and is effective in just as many or less matchups on only 3 stages so that changes things a lot.

 

[-Vocal-]

The thing is, it isnt nearly unbeatable. It was never extensively tested. Yes its nearly unbeatable for characters like falco and IC's, but its no more powerful than planking is, and is effective in just as many or less matchups on only 3 stages so that changes things a lot.

How would Snake beat this? Diddy? Marth? Wario? DDD? Olimar? Game and Watch? If the majority of A and B tier has no answer, it's a pretty difficult to beat. That said, I've never actually seen it done in an actual match, though the same can be said for rising Pound.

 

[Browny]

Who cares about A + B tier? the tier of characters that can beat it is irrelevant lol. Once you ban and strike stages to leave sonic with only battlefield the tactic becomes very beatable as he doesnt have much room to move around on battlefield and many characters can throw out an attack beneath the stage and still recover easily with its ledges.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Snake has well-cooked grenades that may or may not work with very good timing; Diddy has bananas; Marth can't beat it, Wario has tires, Olimar has either purple pikmin or nothing, he probably gets wrecked by it pretty hard, DDD has waddles or gordo (can he do this without dying?), G&W can probably hit with bacon...

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Sonic's Homing Attack stall is only really a problem under FD because of its width and the shape of the underneath of the stage. The bottom part acts like a guard which stops people from getting at him without definitly killing themselves. Lylat Cruise could also cause problems, as could Smashville but to a lesser extent due to how small it is. Oddly, you can't actually go underneath Pictochat but there you have it

FD is the only stage I would be concerned about Homing Attack stall because everywhere else doesn't really allow Sonic to 'stall' effectivly with Homing Attack. Unless I'm mistaken, Sonic has to use his 2nd jump to actually get into a safe position under the stage...Homing Attacking at the side of the stage is screaming for getting stage spiked by something. That or Sonic will move back up to the ledge due to the stage's shape and then he'll be back to square one anyway

Btw - Moving around won't stop Homing Attack 'stalling' because if Sonic touches a roof/surface first, he'll bounce off that rather than lock onto you. I checked this by going underneath the stage and Floating around Sonic as he was Homing Attacking underneath FD and he didn't lock onto me provided he touched the stage first


I can't remember the exact mechanics of wall bouncing with Homing Attack but Sonic iirc moves left or right or stays in the same place in a seemingly random fashion. So sometimes you could get Sonic stuck down underneath the stage forever and sometimes Sonic will pop back up in a matter of seconds

Tbh, this is a poor man's attempt of stalling - You don't have much control over where Homing Attack actually takes you, you can't do it safely on most stages and heck Sonic isn't even invincible when he's doing it. I think some solid evidence as to why this should/shouldn't be banned needs to be published though to convince a final verdict on it

 

[Life]

You don't need your second jump to HA stall, but everything else you say looks accurate at a glance.

 

[Browny]

Ive presented enough to fill an entire thread of reasons as to why it should not be banned (ONLY WHILE PLANKING IS ALLOWED) and as stated, it is impossible to physically prove it is broken. The counterpick system renders it nearly useless and losing 2 matches in a set to it is no different than choosing DK for all your matches, it all depends on whether the opponent chooses a character that can stop it. You dont ban a technique while it is very beatable. Again though it all comes down to the comparison vs planking. If no character can stop the theoretical perfect plank while many characters can stop even a perfect HA stall, either they both need to be allowed, or both restricted/banned. Im not gonna go into excessive detail again.

 

[-Vocal-]

I smell fallacy. True, many characters have a very difficult time stopping it, but it isn't on the same level as PPlanking just because you can beat it. I think it just becomes more of a Ganondorf vs. MK on RC type situation - doable but not likely. (That was assuming it's a bad stage for Ganon to fight MK on, I'm sure one of them will correct me if I'm wrong )

And I only listed A and B tier for ease of reading and writing, but let's continue: ZSS? (C tier actually looks like they could handle it better than others, go figure.) DK? Fox? Sheik? PT? Bowser? Ike? Yoshi? Mario? CF? Jiggs? The rest?

(Btw, while looking I this I discovered there's a new Melee tier list; places 1, 2, and 3 are taken by Fox, Falco, and (of course) Jiggs, though I don't think in any particular order.)

Anyways

You know...after counting that makes about ten characters that could theoretically beat this, esp. with Rickerdy's insights. (@BPC: wouldn't Sonic be so far under the stage that most of those items wouldn't reach him? That's the reason I questioned them.) As such, this is on an entirely different level than PPlanking. To try to group them together is poor, poor logic. Don't really think I'd be in favor of banning it either, due to the fact that there is a core of characters that can beat it. Not to mention it's not as abusable as either IDC or PPlanking - the other two you can start and stop at will, but HA Stall needs specific setup and takes longer to quit.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I could agree to Homing Stall being banned. Although it doesn't make Sonic technically invincible like IDC does for MK, it's still a nearly unbeatable tactic if a character wants to live. I acknowledge that this opens the door for things subjectively defined as stalling to be banned, and I'm fine with opening that door.

That could also be said about ledge grabs(any character). There are many characters who can do little to stop this with out putting themselves at risk.

 

[-Vocal-]

That could also be said about ledge grabs(any character). There are many characters who can do little to stop this with out putting themselves at risk.

You're now saying that grabbing the ledge is broken.












(Thank you, I haven't had a good reason to use that in a while.)

Basically what I'm trying to say is that's not an issue.