Official BBR Recommended Rule Set 3.1

[DMG]

So someone with less % can lose if the opponent out damages them? That actually sounds kinda like a buff to MK; he may never kill Snake under 150, yet die around 100 himself. Last stock, MK gets to 100% and Snake is at 30%, yet MK wins cause he outdamaged Snake over the course of the game. 330% MK has caused, 300% Snake has caused. Yes let's do this rule instead

Don't tell me that scenario is unrealistic either, cause it was you in the first place who argued that it wasn't fair to say MK is the winner with 100% and Snake is at 101%. If MK should lose when he has lower %, then Snake should certainly lose in that spot.

 

[Spelt]

N o

Umm, okay.


Let's say Falco vs Snake.
they spend 7 minutes camping each other on the first stock.
falco has 110% and snake has 210%.
snake kills falco with utilt, then gives falco 90% on his second stock and right before time runs out falco kills snake with usmash.
time runs out when both players have 2 stocks left. falco at 90% and snake at 0%. but who wins? Falco.


Edit: kind of ninja'd by DMG, but whatever i'll just leave this here.

 

[sunshade]

I really hate having time victories be based on something you cannot see during the match. Unless you are memorizing the percent damage you wont be able to tell if you can camp in a close game.

Stock and percent is simple to understand and easy to enforce. Time outs are once in a blue moon and never happen unless one of the players is intentionally causing them so I don't see the issue with them.

People see something they think is gay or boring and want to change the rules to make it not work.

 

[Luxor]

Fact is, Brawl is a gay and boring game and using rules to change that is a futile effort.

 

[ADHD]

Fact is, Brawl is a gay and boring game and using rules to change that is a futile effort.

I recommend you press start and quit out of SWF NOOB.

 

[Luxor]

ADHD, we love you in an unconditional sort of way. Plus I was kinda joking. Kinda.

 

[DMG]

WHERE IS START BUTTON

Lol

 

[ADHD]

I did just think of something cool, though. You can sabotage someone's nametag before the match so brutally that they are forced to press start, and then you ***** to the referees and win game 1.

Now I can never lose.

 

[DMG]

For MLG, screw that. I will be nameless if I have to and avoid all that

 

[ADHD]

For MLG, screw that. I will be nameless if I have to and avoid all that

I will make a nametag Player 1.

 

[DMG]

Simple; scroll all the way until there are no names/where you create one. Pick the default, or make a fresh one

 

[Spelt]

Make Cheese's nametag have Z set to taunt.

 

[John12346]

The two most drastic issues seem to be the "Pausing issue" and the "MK Planking without a LGL" subjects. Maybe we should take one at a time so we don't get mixed up?

Let's focus on the pause issue for starters. There are a lot of possible ways to administer a solution, but none of them seem to be effective. Let me explain:

Turn off the Pause Setting- This seems to be the most effective solution, as phonecalls and bathroom breaks and the like can be held for a mere <8 minutes. However, as someone pointed out, if an emergency arises that forces the player to get up, what then? I personally believe that if the match has to be stopped to something serious enough to stop the match, the time, percents, and stocks should be memorized and the player should attend to his situation, I believe this is the most effective solution to the matter.(Naturally, this rule should be ignored if the player has to, for example, go home)

Leave the Pause Setting on, with no penalty for accidental pauses- This solution is okay, but if, for example, a chaingrabber gets his grab, the victim could feign "accidentally" pushing pause to escape the grab. Flat out, this solution is abusable.

Leave the Pause Setting on, with a one life loss for accidental pauses- This solution is better than the previous one, because it wouldn't behoove the chaingrabbed victim to push pause, but then it begets the question, "What happens if the victim really did push pause by accident?" The player might've been honestly trying to escape by mashing, so yeah.

Leave the Pause Setting on, with a DQ for accidental pauses- Cheese vs. Nick Riddle. Also essentially the same problems as the previous one.

 

[-LzR-]

I think the best option to pausing is disabling it and using the home button of a wiimote when needed to pause. Every wii needs a wiimote so it's realistic that it's possible. Someone who isn't playing the match has to pause it when the players request it.

I know it sounds stupid, but it works in a way it makes no accidental pauses.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Leave the Pause Setting on, with a one life loss for accidental pauses- This solution is better than the previous one, because it wouldn't behoove the chaingrabbed victim to push pause, but then it begets the question, "What happens if the victim really did push pause by accident?" The player might've been honestly trying to escape by mashing, so yeah.

this is the best option.

If the person really did pause by accident they drop a stock anyway. thats their fault for going so crazy on the controller that they did something unintentionally to disturb the entire flow of the game. and the penalty for dropping said stock is not excessive.

then in addition to that, you add in a gentleman's clause so that the opponent of the person who paused, may choose to just unpause the game and start again from a neutral position ( what most people will do) or make the opponent drop a stock.

I think the best option to pausing is disabling it and using the home button of a wiimote when needed to pause. Every wii needs a wiimote so it's realistic that it's possible. Someone who isn't playing the match has to pause it when the players request it.

I know it sounds stupid, but it works in a way it makes no accidental pauses.

at my events sometimes there are people who bring hacked wiis that dont need a wiimote to start the game up. so there tends to be less wiimotes than wiis in attendance at my tourneys.




Lastly, I would not mind trying out that does more damage time out rule.
since abusing that rule requires you to continually hit your opponent more than they do you, even if they dont die, and still hold all 3 of your stocks for the required amount of tiem.

 

[deepseadiva]

Leave the Pause Setting on, with a one life loss for accidental pauses- This solution is better than the previous one, because it wouldn't behoove the chaingrabbed victim to push pause, but then it begets the question, "What happens if the victim really did push pause by accident?" The player might've been honestly trying to escape by mashing, so yeah.

This is obviously the best solution.

Is this not in the ruleset? Haha.

I'mma check.

EDITZ: Control+Effing "pause" resulted in nothing. That's odd.

 

[-Vocal-]

Wow, this thread has slowed significantly in the past week or two. Has everyone else just gone back to school like I did?

 

[KillerJawz]

I believe the pause setting should be decided between both of the players, and if a decision cannot be made, a rock paper scissor event should occur, the winner obviously picking which type of pause setting is allowed.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I was reading the thread that DMG wrote on planking. From what I read, the reason why it is broken is because he basically gets two invincible U-airs, then he can just re-grab the ledge and repeat this over and over again. Why don't they just make a rule against that? Make a rule that bans U-air as the first attack while on the ledge(when using MK). This fixes the planking problem.

 

[Spelt]

Because it's an arbitrary nerf and they don't support those.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

It's as arbitrary as banning Peach's infinite bomber tech which they did ban in Melee.

 

[Spelt]

It's as arbitrary as banning Peach's infinite bomber tech which they did ban in Melee.

go yell at the mbr to change it then.

 

[Tesh]

An LGL sounds much much better than banning the immediate use of uair when someone is above you.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

An LGL sounds much much better than banning the immediate use of uair when someone is above you.

The problem with a ledge grab limit is that they force it on all the characters even the ones that are not broken on the ledge

 

[Nidtendofreak]

An LGL sounds much much better than banning the immediate use of uair when someone is above you.

Except that a LGL won't stop MK. He can just Dair camp until there is little enough time left that he can plank without going over.

There is a very obvious way to get rid of this problem, but since so many people seem to be against the obvious solution (Hit MK with the banhammer), we are in fact stuck with MK being stupidly good at planking with no realistic solution to stop it. You can't realistically just target MK without saying "Yes he's bannable, we just don't want to do it". LGL won't work. Air Time Limit doesn't work and seriously hurts other characters (like Jigglypuff needs a nerf like that). Stage selection in either direction of conservative or liberal will stop it, unless you make every match play on PTAD.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I was reading the thread that DMG wrote on planking. From what I read, the reason why it is broken is because he basically gets two invincible U-airs, then he can just re-grab the ledge and repeat this over and over again. Why don't they just make a rule against that? Make a rule that bans U-air as the first attack while on the ledge(when using MK). This fixes the planking problem.

this fixes what you said is the problem though

 

[sunshade]

Can someone name me a single time metaknight has used his unbeatable planking to win a tournament of note or a money match of 10$ or more? A video must be supplied as well.

Why are we trying to ban something that has never happened in a competitive environment and has not been an issue at any point in the full year and a half that ledge grab limits did not exist?

 

[vVv Rapture]

MK was banned at Viva La Smash III. Peeps said it was awesome him not being there. MK is such a downer at parties. Being all douchebag-like.

Top 5 in Singles were Toon Link, DK, ROB, Pit and Olimar, btw.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Can someone name me a single time metaknight has used his unbeatable planking to win a tournament of note or a money match of 10$ or more? A video must be supplied as well.

Why are we trying to ban something that has never happened in a competitive environment and has not been an issue at any point in the full year and a half that ledge grab limits did not exist?

I have never seen any technique that has been banned in a previous smash game be used in a tournament just before it got banned. How about you show me a video of that?

 

[sunshade]

Then none of those techniques should have been banned.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Then none of those techniques should have been banned.

Why does someone necessarily have to put up money and get their *** beat just so that you can be convinced that a move or technique should be banned? Some things are just common sense like if you have a character like Jigglypuff in Melee with an attack that can be used to infinity stall , it might actually be used to infinity stall in a tournament.

 

[Spelt]

because most melee players really wouldn't even think about doing it.
and the 1-2 times it actually might happen in a tournament far out way the 76543578 other tournaments without it

 

[SaveMeJebus]

because most melee players really wouldn't even think about doing it.
and the 1-2 times it actually might happen in a tournament far out way the 76543578 other tournaments without it

Well, that is not the case for brawl players who would probably abuse the cape glitch if it wasn't banned.

 

[Tesh]

Except that a LGL won't stop MK. He can just Dair camp until there is little enough time left that he can plank without going over.

There is a very obvious way to get rid of this problem, but since so many people seem to be against the obvious solution (Hit MK with the banhammer), we are in fact stuck with MK being stupidly good at planking with no realistic solution to stop it. You can't realistically just target MK without saying "Yes he's bannable, we just don't want to do it". LGL won't work. Air Time Limit doesn't work and seriously hurts other characters (like Jigglypuff needs a nerf like that). Stage selection in either direction of conservative or liberal will stop it, unless you make every match play on PTAD.

First of all, I didn't suggest LGLs are perfect, but banning someone from using uair when its the smart thing to do is just silly. If you are planking against a ganondorf and he tries to spike you with his frame 22 dair, you can't hit him first or you get punished because you did an upair.

If you have a low enough LGL, then MK can't perfect stall for long. According to DMG's thread you have to regrab the ledge ASAP to stay safe. So if you want to stall for more than 1 minute with a 40 LGL then you have to leave some holes in your planking or fight for 7 minutes first. Infinites are limited the same way, you can do it for a while, but not forever. Hell you can lower the LGL to 20 if it suits you.

Dair camping is just really good vertical spacing. If you really need to limit or ban good spacing, just ban the character. You don't need to ban good spacing. He isn't invincible, you can get to him, its just risky. I understand dair camping must annoy the heck out of some people, but MK is the best so ofcourse he has alot of safe options in alot of situations.
The point of an LGL is to make him beatable, not to turn him into ganondorf. You can't just ban everything thats good about him.

@ sunshade
If something is proven to be extremely broken and humanly possible (or just plain easy) by FRAME DATA, then you don't have to go test it really. With that said, I'm not 100% convinced that uair planking beats Snake, Pit or pikachu. Difficulty does factor into how worthy something is of a ban. Wasn't Fox theoretically unstoppable in melee but not humanly possible to play at such a level?

 

[sunshade]

Because first impressions are bias, often incorrect, and lead to unreversible changes to the ruleset.

Metaknights has been able to plank since the day the game shipped but it has not been an issue at any point in the past 2 years. Why do you want to implement a rule for something that does not happen and is not an issue?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Because first impressions are bias, often incorrect, and lead to unreversible changes to the ruleset.

Metaknights has been able to plank since the day the game shipped but it has not been an issue at any point in the past 2 years. Why do you want to implement a rule for something that does not happen and is not an issue?

because it can happen and it can become an issue.

 

[sunshade]

It has not happened and has not been an issue.

 

[Tesh]

But if its already been proven to be broken, why do you need to test it. Running in circles with sonic/fox on hyrule has been possible since the game shipped too, but it never got a chance. If you see a can of rat poison, do you taste it to prove that its deadly? If you can tell by simply looking, why do you need to damage something (a tournament) to prove its bad. IF the data clearly says he can't be touched and its BECAUSE he is grabbing the ledge, then why can't we just limit the issue.

 

[DMG]

Most people don't know how to do it correctly. Even before I outlined what he can do, people have won numerous sets through planking or Dair camping to planking to run out the time. I also explained why it doesn't win tournaments awhile back (most people associate winning a tournament with a strategy doing it in Grand Finals even if they have never done it in their life lol, but exempt scenarios where the strategy is used in most sets barring grand finals.)

The first problem is that most people who play MK will "reserve" playing gay unless absolutely necessary. Most MK's, from M2K to Lee Martin to even Dojo, fit that bill. M2K can beat what, 95% of the Brawl community without playing gay, and the other 5% when he decides to. You have the general lack of gayness until things get "close" in Brawl; how many people do you know of that will actively try to time someone out at or before the 6 minute mark? No one has that fervor for playing gay, shamefully not even I possess that kind of zeal and vigor. Once things are close, and the gay is turned up, people say "Oh well he just won cause he's better". I rarely hear someone say "He won because he planked or ran away", and hear "He's just better" despite the tactic clearly shaping the game significantly. If people associate winning with always being better, no tactics coming into play, then of course most people would fail to say "Hey wait a minute, that's a bit ********".

The reason you don't see MK in Grand Finals planking? Because it tends to be M2K vs whoever, and even when it gets Nasty M2K tries not to whip out any time wasting shenanigans unless it's crucial that he does. Even then, I've seen him stone faced approaching going against his urges to plank and fight people straight up. The other few times, when it's MK vs MK, it just be a battle of who's better at planking/stopping it. Most people don't want to press their luck, and don't try it. Despite doing it in the previous tournament sets against non MK players, you might rarely see it in Grand Finals unless people "want" to do it.

If people actively, ACTIVELY tried to play gay with MK, and then people were doing well against it, you could go "Oh ok, no problem yet". But we're barely scratching the surface of gayness at this stage IMO. There are so many timeouts, so many plankings, so little time...

 

[Luxor]

LGL's are the de facto standard anyway. The only reason imo the BBR didn't expressly limit them because it's so hard to agree how to do it. Ban MK? Global LGL? Just MK? How many? Do we say drop-->double Uair is banned? How do we enforce that?Every single solution has problems. Every. Single. One.

Spoiler

except for quitting vBrawl and just playing mods lol, that's work fine

Also except for making people play with honor, which (like ^^^DMG's post) is a de facto standard as well. When some top MK loses all sense of shame and manly pride is when the BBR will rule on this.