Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Flayl]

wow! thank you for that bit of info there judo! i guess people are just messing up there spacing when they play me (hell that even applies to M3g@f0x) so tbh i guess it only outrprioritzes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

 

[Zigsta]

you know, wifi may not be very helpful in learning the matchup but it might be helpful in gauging general knowledge at a glance... I wonder if any of the top Luc mains will sit down and try to wif-...

Ahh... failure... that'd be so failure, what am I talking about... sigh. I wanna go back in time and use Pit against Trela at MLG T_T

Come to Texas for a rematch!

 

[phi1ny3]

Pit = gay rights, they'll never really catch on well in the US

 

[Kuro~]

Only reason I have trouble with this...his MU is on the level of some A tiers if not better...that isn't right. I've seen this as a trend with Pit where a lot of his MUs are kinda far on the ooptomistic side.

He probably does better without a LGL, but with it. I don't see why ICs, Pika, Snake are even.

Falco i've heard different thinks simular to Diddy, but for ICs, Pika, and Snake, why is he even?

Even comparing...this is on par if not better than Lucario's...

Pits ground game is actually really good vs pika. Pika survives longer and can kill with thunder as in every matchup. Pikas fsmash is actually pretty good in this matchup as it outspaces most of pits grounded assaults. And with pikas super awesome ability to refresh his whole moveset in like 2 seconds with his jab staleness isn't a problem. Pit can't juggle pika? lol. That's just not true. Pit can actually juggle pika well with upsmash,utilt, baited dairs and *sometimes* uair. Though the fear of uair is what leads to easy upsmashes,utilts, and dairs. Which all pop him back up. Pikas dtilt does not outrage pit.
Snake is even cuz of how pit can juggle, rack up damage, and gimp snake. a 50+% chaingrab that leads him offstage. And can easily outcamp him. Some pretty solid evidence considering koolaid consistently has beaten fatal and bizkit.

As far as IC's go. I feel it's +1 IC's. Everytime i watch a pit fight an ICs i see the pit have to *try* harder. Dair camping only works so well for so long cuz if they can find the pattern IC uair beats it. However, we do have CP advantage. And we have safe retreats with FH dair on their shield and jab infinite actually does work well on IC. But it can be anticipated and grabbed. It's a little bit harder than Zeldas fsmash to grab for reference. Pit doesn't really need no LGL to be able to play safe and be good.

Fox: Not gonna say **** cuz as of now its all super theory craft bros. And it's pissing me off.

@Whoever gave that long list...tbh that's exactly where i feel pit should be. Mid B tier. He's a character that can easily place well with his balanced spread of matchups but takes work to be good with.

@Maha i agree with that list. I just have to yet to see why IC is even. So someone prove that to me cuz i'd love to believe that
@Dedede As far as pit vs ddd matches. Pit has won them in high level play so that's why i have it as +1. That being said, i personally could see +0 as well. But the results support a +1 so far.

Magic doesn't exist.

Friendship is Magic.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Pit = gay rights, they'll never really catch on well in the US

Given... me I have to lol at this .

Also never is a very long time.

 

[Krystedez]

You know, that's about the safest damn analogy I've seen used so far about Pit, and it's gotten me down-right sick of it, on both accounts.

Come on guys. Pit isn't "gay". He just has two unique reflectors, a spammy projectile that can be curved around the entire stage forever (?), wings, a sword, 4 jumps, a glide, and a hellaciously sexy outdoor voice (THE FIGHT IS ON~~!~)

You can't defeat me, guys.

Oh btw, Pit v Snake, kills are easier on him if you save your fsmash, but it's all in the bair baby. Also, WoI-refresh to off-stage u-air gimp/kill is so sexy because whichever way they DI they die at relatively reasonable percents, unless they have a nade blow them up. But this is just the stuff offhand I can think of for kills, there's other ways too.

 

[Steam]

I'm not arguing against pit because I "don't like him" lol

he's one of my more liked characters... lmao

still not a good character

 

[Krystedez]

Steam, didn't say you don't like him, I'm just tired of the trolling from other users that don't contribute anything to the discussion.

And what you say is subjective. I think he's a good character.

 

[Matador]

this is why pits never place in tourneys.

if pits matchups were really that basic and good for him, he wouldnt struggle so much to get out of pools at big events.

i think the characters main problem. is that he really doesnt have any mixup potential, and you can almost always tell what hes going to do.

sonic for all intents and purposes is a bad character. But he has the ability to do unpredictable things. and if you cant predict a characters moves. you cant react to them fast enough. and if your reaction time is bad, your not going to be able to punish moves, or choose the correct moves based on the situation. which is what leads to a lot of people losing to sonic.

even ddd. character has like 5 moves. 2 of them are attacks, 2 of them beat shield, and the last one is a projectile. the character is retardedly basic or straight forward. but if you have him in the air and are trrying to shield his falling bair because it outprioritises any move you would throw at him, and he turnaround inhales you. people are going to get hit by that until the end of time. because its a solid fundamental mix up. pit doesnt really have anything like that. his entire game is pretty much predicated on. Shoot arrows when theyre far away, and when theyre close, push them out so you can shoot more arrows.

aside from low percent grab combos. the character has nothing that would encourage them to go against the game plan i just lined out. which leads to them being super predictable. and in this game, if youre predictable, you lose.

even falco, who has an arguably, better projectile, has not only an incentive (his CQC game is top notch, and his juggle traps are amazing) but also the means (side b is kinda really hard to punish) to stop shooting lasers for two seconds, and go up and hit the other guy. I just dont see pit having that. and it leads to tired, predictable, losing gameplay.

QFT. New age theory-crafting right here.

This is the same reason I believe people are so flabbergasted when their theory-crafting =/= results. This talk of jabs beating jabs n whatnot RARELY makes a difference in tourney...what makes a difference is the big-picture stuff that KID outlined here.

Anyone who plays anything other than Smash competitively finds this blatantly obvious to them.

 

[da K.I.D.]

QFT. New age theory-crafting right here.

This is the same reason I believe people are so flabbergasted when their theory-crafting =/= results. This talk of jabs beating jabs n whatnot RARELY makes a difference in tourney...what makes a difference is the big-picture stuff that KiD outlined here.

Anyone who plays anything other than Smash competitively finds this blatantly obvious to them.

I see your QFT, and I raise you one more.

Especially in smash, making sweeping generalizations like 'pits jabs beats everything fox can do on the ground' makes you look foolish, because its super easy to just SHAD through somebody thats spamming jab, or even just powershield and punish. Nothing is concrete in this game. and like matador said, if you ever play traditional fighters, it gives you a much better perspective on this sort of thing.

PS. for the record. there is a KiD who plays falco and is from Jersey. I am not him, I am KID, all caps, aka Goggles. from Upstate NY.

 

[Steam]

Steam, didn't say you don't like him, I'm just tired of the trolling from other users that don't contribute anything to the discussion.

And what you say is subjective. I think he's a good character.

I think he's a bad character because he places like one : D

 

[Shaya]

Talking about "beats everything fox can do on the ground", have you guys ever played angled upwards forward tilt squirtle as Fox?

YOU WILL ****ING RAGE.

 

[T-block]

Talking about "beats everything fox can do on the ground", have you guys ever played angled upwards forward tilt squirtle as Fox?

YOU WILL ****ING RAGE.

Feels good man =D

 

[Chuee]

I think he's a bad character because he places like one : D

So if snake placed like a mid tier character he would be mid tier?

 

[Matador]

PS. for the record. there is a KiD who plays falco and is from Jersey. I am not him, I am KID, all caps, aka Goggles. from Upstate NY.

I see, my apologies.

 

[Kuro~]

I see your QFT, and I raise you one more.

Especially in smash, making sweeping generalizations like 'pits jabs beats everything fox can do on the ground' makes you look foolish, because its super easy to just SHAD through somebody thats spamming jab, or even just powershield and punish. Nothing is concrete in this game. and like matador said, if you ever play traditional fighters, it gives you a much better perspective on this sort of thing.

PS. for the record. there is a KiD who plays falco and is from Jersey. I am not him, I am KID, all caps, aka Goggles. from Upstate NY.

Your statement is entirely opinionated. Pit's ability to mix-it up is actually pretty well. Not the best but definitely not as bad as your making it out to be. Also, really? Like a pit is gonna blindly jab to the point that the fox can just SHAD through already anticipating it.That part just makes me QQ.

 

[da K.I.D.]

So if snake placed like a mid tier character he would be mid tier?

1. if snake placed like a mid tier, he would probably have the tools of a mid tier, so yea, hed be mid tier.

2. snake places like hes the second best character in the game, and oh look, the tier list seems to state that snake is the second best character in the game.

Your statement is entirely opinionated. Pit's ability to mix-it up is actually pretty well. Not the best but definitely not as bad as your making it out to be. Also, really? Like a pit is gonna blindly jab to the point that the fox can just SHAD through already anticipating it.That part just makes me QQ.

talk to your boy maharba, cause thats the impression he was giving. the point is that saying pit jab locks down and beats everything fox can do on the ground (even the 8 defensive options that every character in the game has at any point in time) is ignorant.

 

[Steam]

What goggle guy said

 

[Krystedez]

In the circles I play with/talk with in the MW plus my room mates, Snake is considered over-rated. Ally just 2gud

 

[MVD]

Snake isn't good smh

 

[Kuro~]

*sigh* again i'll restate what i said earlier...just drop the whole pit vs fox ****. It's all theory craft with no backbone and those types of arguments anger me to no end cuz neither side is accepting or budges and just puts up an iron wall to other peoples opinions.

Lol, ya ally2gud. All other snakes don't place like he's 2nd best. They place like he's low part of A tier.

 

[Poltergust]

Uh... Razer?

 

[MVD]

Ally definitely plays MK more lol backups are nice

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

you all keep saying pit isn't placing good i tourney's for the last few years. yet when i posted eveindence of pit's placing top 10 at several tournies and top 20 at WHOBO3, it seems like all you guys did was ignore it becuause it shows now that people are
1:actually starting to use pit in tourney now
2:start placing where his MUs place him

and ya, im done theory crafting MUs in here, just look at results of actual matches for the MUs you are questioning (only tourney/money matches count). oh wait, up until this year who used pit in tourney again? hm... that's strange, i can only think of koolaid, yass, and way back when sagemoon (wait a minute? didn't they all place rather high at the tourneys they attended? and doesn't koolaid still place high?) i mean hell im not even gonna mention the japanese in here because you guys will say nothing they do counts (wait wasn't some1 arguing yui for fox?).

lol, the hell with it. even as we do better in tournies it is obvious that none but a few people here will actually support us as fellow brawlers so i will just let our continually increasing placement at tournies do all the talk for me along with actually just playing this game and proving to people in tournament that pit is
1:a good character that hardly anyone will ever recognize due to just labeling we that main him a joke
2:that as i take your money from you that the MUs for pit are better than what most of you give us credit for.

and btw @whoever said ice blocks stop arrows, that's only if they touch the arrow (weave much?)

see yall in tourney

 

[Kuro~]

Uh... Razer?

Ya that's true. I still don't think he's second best. Too many off matchups with much of the high tier and some mid tier.

Ally definitely plays MK more lol backups are nice

Of course, MVD. Didn't you know every snake goes to mk eventually?

 

[san.]

Snake places just as well as the other top characters.

There were two snake users in grand finals of WHOBO 3. Fatal, Razer, Ally, (MVD?), random NE snake, etc I see at top 8 at large tournaments all the time, too, consistently.

Middle of high tier I see all over the place, really. Marth really under-performs, too.

Pit has worse results than some of the characters around him, can't deny that. But there's enough leeway to group them all together, I suppose.

 

[NickRiddle]

you all keep saying pit isn't placing good i tourney's for the last few years. yet when i posted eveindence of pit's placing top 10 at several tournies and top 20 at WHOBO3, it seems like all you guys did was ignore it becuause it shows now that people are
1:actually starting to use pit in tourney now
2:start placing where his MUs place him

and ya, im done theory crafting MUs in here, just look at results of actual matches for the MUs you are questioning (only tourney/money matches count). oh wait, up until this year who used pit in tourney again? hm... that's strange, i can only think of koolaid, yass, and way back when sagemoon (wait a minute? didn't they all place rather high at the tourneys they attended? and doesn't koolaid still place high?) i mean hell im not even gonna mention the japanese in here because you guys will say nothing they do counts (wait wasn't some1 arguing yui for fox?).

lol, the hell with it. even as we do better in tournies it is obvious that none but a few people here will actually support us as fellow brawlers so i will just let our continually increasing placement at tournies do all the talk for me along with actually just playing this game and proving to people in tournament that pit is
1:a good character that hardly anyone will ever recognize due to just labeling we that main him a joke
2:that as i take your money from you that the MUs for pit are better than what most of you give us credit for.

and btw @whoever said ice blocks stop arrows, that's only if they touch the arrow (weave much?)

see yall in tourney

The top 10 placings matter.
Top 20 doesn't matter... are you serious?
If top 20 mattered, more than half the cast would be tournament viable.
Also, did you really mention SageMoon? 2008/2009 results do not matter. People get better. In 2008/2009 was crazy broken.
Pits in the US aren't really placing. Koolaid places the best and he generally, from what I've seen, doesn't go all Pit. If people can take credit away from Fox/TKD for that, I can take credit away from Pit/Koolaid like that.




Also, a big problem with this thread/the tier list thread. Your placing doesn't matter at all. If you get an easy bracket and place 5th that doesn't mean you/your character is good. It's all about who you beat.

Who have top Pits been beating as ONLY Pit?

 

[Chuee]

Who have top Pits been beating as ONLY Pit?

Japanese Pits do work with only pit.
inb4japandoesn'tmatter

 

[NickRiddle]

Japanese Pits do work with only pit.
inb4japandoesn'tmatter

I kinda turned that into moreso a US thing, as he keeps mentioning US Pits.
Also, are JP Pits still doing work? I honestly don't know anymore.

 

[Krystedez]

Eh. I don't get placed against really known players in pools at tournaments, and when I do play good players in bracket, I'm not developed enough as a Pit player to take them down. All which will change soon.

In BitH,
Used Pit on Kel game 1, went close but lost, used wario for rest of set
Used all Pit on Judo, lost 2-0 :/ Never faced a great shiek player before then with pit, gave me a good perspective on the reality of the MU rating.
Won as Pit on The Smile, forgot who he uses, KY player I think.
Won as Pit on HadesBlade's yoshi and Kero's Olimar.
Went Pit round 1 against Y.b.M.'s kirby, first time trying that MU out. Was ... okay. But lost.

Other than that, I've always beat my pools match players with Pit, and I took a few MKs down in bracket at SiiS4 like Capem... CAPEM... who... I don't know. But I'm not afraid to test my limits against guys like Ally. Which I did. And failed miserably. FOR NOW!

 

[z00ted]

Ya that's true. I still don't think he's second best. Too many off matchups with much of the high tier and some mid tier.

Um.. Razer has the best Snake.

 

[NickRiddle]

Eh. I don't get placed against really known players in pools at tournaments, and when I do play good players in bracket, I'm not developed enough as a Pit player to take them down. All which will change soon.

In BitH,
Used Pit on Kel game 1, went close but lost, used wario for rest of set
Used all Pit on Judo, lost 2-0 :/ Never faced a great shiek player before then with pit, gave me a good perspective on the reality of the MU rating.
Won as Pit on The Smile, forgot who he uses, KY player I think.
Won as Pit on HadesBlade's yoshi and Kero's Olimar.
Went Pit round 1 against Y.b.M.'s kirby, first time trying that MU out. Was ... okay. But lost.

Other than that, I've always beat my pools match players with Pit, and I took a few MKs down in bracket at SiiS4 like Capem... CAPEM... who... I don't know. But I'm not afraid to test my limits against guys like Ally. Which I did. And failed miserably. FOR NOW!

I've heard of HadesBlade... and you lost against everybody else who's name I recognize.
Dem top players.

 

[Chuee]

Also, are JP Pits still doing work? I honestly don't know anymore.

Yup.
Masashi hasn't been to anything in awhile, but Earth recently got 2nd at a tourney with most of the top Japanese players.
He beat Yui (fox), Shu (snake), Otori (mk), and Brood (olimar). He lost to Nietono's olimar in GFs.
All the vids are on youtube
Yui
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZfYW3zuUL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JADjip1M0Q&feature=related
went sheik game 3
Shu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5VWlIKZpnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo5LpCEwp7s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_GgJgZuOT0&feature=related
Otori
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGsRjB556BA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKLd2BcLQQ&feature=related
Brood
went sheik game 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8kTh28A-QM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d54A0y_G-Jg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOldP-nAzV0
Nietono
went sheik game 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8kTh28A-QM&feature=related
went sheik game 3
@Illmatic: Razer da bess snake.

 

[Krystedez]

I've heard of HadesBlade... and you lost against everybody else who's name I recognize.
Dem top players.

It happens

 

[Conviction]

LATE AS HELL BREAKING NEWS BEACUSE I'M LAZY: Fox's Bairs beats Pit's Infin-Jab....wtf...lol I'm so late Judo made the whole situation a hella lot easier. Lol I tested for no reason :-/

 

[Kuro~]

Snake places just as well as the other top characters.

There were two snake users in grand finals of WHOBO 3. Fatal, Razer, Ally, (MVD?), random NE snake, etc I see at top 8 at large tournaments all the time, too, consistently.

Middle of high tier I see all over the place, really. Marth really under-performs, too.

Pit has worse results than some of the characters around him, can't deny that. But there's enough leeway to group them all together, I suppose.

Consistency...ya i could see that as an arguement. But i'm just not seeing him as 2nd best anymore. Ally doesn't even really go snake anymore. I mean he does a bit but even he himself said " I don't care about snake anymore".

The top 10 placings matter.
Top 20 doesn't matter... are you serious?
If top 20 mattered, more than half the cast would be tournament viable.
Also, did you really mention SageMoon? 2008/2009 results do not matter. People get better. In 2008/2009 was crazy broken.
Pits in the US aren't really placing. Koolaid places the best and he generally, from what I've seen, doesn't go all Pit. If people can take credit away from Fox/TKD for that, I can take credit away from Pit/Koolaid like that.




Also, a big problem with this thread/the tier list thread. Your placing doesn't matter at all. If you get an easy bracket and place 5th that doesn't mean you/your character is good. It's all about who you beat.

Who have top Pits been beating as ONLY Pit?

Koolaid was mk for a while. But when he goes pit he goes pit. 90% of the sets he wins are with pit. There's also a large gap between him and the other pits imo. Esca being the closest.

But again, you yourself kinda countered your own point. It's all about who you beat. So if koolaid beats Fatal, malcolm or people at Nationals with pit but goes metaknight on others. It still doesn't change who he beat with pit. If tkd beat m2k with fox but went mk against tyrant and lost does that detract from fox success and evidence of viability? I don't think so

Japanese Pits do work with only pit.
inb4japandoesn'tmatter

Ya they do. You can't really say it's their ruleset either...cuz pit is 1) aided by CPs and 2) they don't even abuse the no LGL anymore. If you watch the recent ones you can see earth purposely playing like he has american limitations.

Um.. Razer has the best Snake.

No, i was referrring to tier placement. Not how good razer is. I agree with this statement though.

LATE AS HELL BREAKING NEWS BEACUSE I'M LAZY: Fox's Bairs beats Pit's Infin-Jab....wtf...lol I'm so late Judo made the whole situation a hella lot easier. Lol I tested for no reason :-/

I thought i already said that...if not my bad lol. But again pit shouldn't be inf jabbing where fox has enough time to run RAR bair lol. /pleasedontcontinuewithpitvsfoxstuff.

 

[Conviction]

but i'm learning here...

 

[Esca]

Who have top Pits been beating as ONLY Pit?

I've beaten some heavy hitters going only Pit man.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i love how the hater posts on pit just stopped as soon as chuee posted videos of a top level pit wrecking shop on obvious other top players (need i remind you guys brood beat m2k back when). just goes to show how little people probably had even seen a professional pit player actually play let alone ever played one themself. *middle finger's the screen, opens another beer with his lighter*

*totally digs awkward silence feeling atm*

*totally goes and snags another beer, tonight is a night to celebrate
1:new job
2:earth's rain of terror and pit support through his shop wrecking*

*doesn't know how above thing counts as an action*

 

[phi1ny3]

Earth too good. Although I wish he still played the obviously more bamf sheik more often than he does now