That's pretty over powered.
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Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0
- Thread starter Marc
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Does clashing apply if you hit their hurtboxes as well as the hitbox?
I am unsure.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.
I am unsure.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.
I'm pretty sure her arm is a hurtbox though, which is why it's unusual that I've beaten out things like Squall Hammer, Bair and F-smash with it.
Zelda's f tilt has transcendent priority.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Transcendent priority means the move can't clash with or be canceled out by other moves.
You can still hit the character with with a bigger hitbox/projectile in most cases, but you can't clash with their attack if it has transcendent priority.
One of the many reasons Meta Knight is so good, almost every single one of his attacks has transcendent priority.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Transcendent priority is also what stops him from clashing with projectiles to stop them.
It's both a blessing and a curse.
It's both a blessing and a curse.
Eh, I'd rather air dodge through projectiles tbh.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
True, probably more of a blessing though.
Depends on your characters fall speed and recovery, some characters like Link or Ganondorf can't really afford to air dodge through projectiles sometimes.
I suppose so, I guess that makes their Falco match-ups really bad. lol
Fuujin
Smash Champion
That and his jab.
His jab is soooo good.
His jab is soooo good.
Sakurai should make a super broken character in SSB4.
Like... Falco's jab and laser, MK's d-smash with Ike's range, Sheik's grab, Peach's float ability and Sonic's speed.
That character would be fun to main.
Like... Falco's jab and laser, MK's d-smash with Ike's range, Sheik's grab, Peach's float ability and Sonic's speed.
That character would be fun to main.
To hell with floating, I don't even have the tech skill for all those dumb tricks. Just give us 100% perfect air control, vertical and horizontal. And a glide attack that shoots a high priority grab that spikes. Basically a glide attack projectile version of ganon's side b.
Excited for ssb4 now...
Excited for ssb4 now...
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Super Dragon Ball Brothers 4
^
John12346
Smash Master
Imagine a character with:
Ike's Jab and guaranteed followups
Fsmash with Dedede power, Ike range, and MK Dsmash startup time
MK Uair and GaW Bucket Brake
Dedede chaingrab on the whole cast that leads into a guaranteed spike with Ness Dair power
10 midair jumps and multiple glides
Shuttle Loop with invincibility throughout the whole move and with Luigi UpB power without the need to sweetspot
Wolf Reflector
Mach Tornado with the effect it possessed in Super Star Ultra
Now imagine if EVERY CHARACTER had bat**** insane movesets like that
We've got a game now lmao
Ike's Jab and guaranteed followups
Fsmash with Dedede power, Ike range, and MK Dsmash startup time
MK Uair and GaW Bucket Brake
Dedede chaingrab on the whole cast that leads into a guaranteed spike with Ness Dair power
10 midair jumps and multiple glides
Shuttle Loop with invincibility throughout the whole move and with Luigi UpB power without the need to sweetspot
Wolf Reflector
Mach Tornado with the effect it possessed in Super Star Ultra
Now imagine if EVERY CHARACTER had bat**** insane movesets like that
We've got a game now lmao
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Guys...........
SSB4 topic elsewheres.
SSB4 topic elsewheres.
Shaya.
I have suddenly fallen in love with you.
I have suddenly fallen in love with you.
Thank you,
but please (you and everyone else) discontinue from posting in an off topic manner from ... [or else]
________________________this line
but please (you and everyone else) discontinue from posting in an off topic manner from ... [or else]
________________________this line
So...
Peach has surprisingly decent matchups.
Peach has surprisingly decent matchups.
They're still not very good, either. Uphill battle against a lot of characters. TOO SLOW
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
People also forget things don't clash in the air unless w/ other specials, aerials interact differently than ground attacks/most specials (there are exceptions like pikmin)
edit: Oh, now we're talking about Peach. I think the uair string is becoming helpful to get damage quickly w/o having to work for it w/ fair and staling one of her best kill moves, nonetheless, several higher ups are not so fun for peach
edit: Oh, now we're talking about Peach. I think the uair string is becoming helpful to get damage quickly w/o having to work for it w/ fair and staling one of her best kill moves, nonetheless, several higher ups are not so fun for peach
Doc King
Smash Lord
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Does anyone here think that King Dedede vs. Wolf should be a +4 for King Dedede? King Dedede has many options against Wolf like a lot of chain grabbing, edge infinite, Downward slope infinite, Down throw to up smash, and severe RCO Lag punishes on Wolf that lead to an instant death. He also has **** cps on Wolf like Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza, Halberd, PS2, Lylat, Frigate, Brinstar, and Seige.
Steam
Smash Hero
inb4wolfmains
Doc King
Smash Lord
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Only like a few characters because of slope infinites.
Jimmyfosho
Smash Hero
but the acid limits the infinites anyways.
Doc King
Smash Lord
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True, but still, they can be useful. The whole thing is basically slopes, so characters that suffer from slopes like Wario, Lucario, Wolf, and Ganon will have a hard time trying to escape out of the chain grab.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Unless MK was banned, I would never knowingly take anyone to Brinstar unless I was intending to switch to Wario/G&W/MK, or if I knew the opponent was, without a shadow of a doubt, going to play non-MK.
Jimmyfosho
Smash Hero
if MK was banned i would CP almost any char that isnt GW/Wario there.(as mario)
Doc King
Smash Lord
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The cool thing with the D3 vs. Wario matchup is that D3 has an infinite (Not including the acid) on Wario on Brinstar, when it's considered one of Wario's best stages. It's weird for a character to lose to someone on their very known good overall stage.
Also, D3's air release finishers can kill at low percents there. I'm thinking this could be a decent counter pick for D3 on several characters.
Also, D3's air release finishers can kill at low percents there. I'm thinking this could be a decent counter pick for D3 on several characters.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Yeah, I can see D3 being pretty decent by virtue of how much control basic D3 stuff can have on the stage even when his CG is lessened on people who aren't slope infinited, just not in a MK-centric metagame.
That's not weird; ask 90% of characters in the current ruleset how they feel about playing against Meta Knight on their best (legal) stage.
Also, acid helps Dedede's recovery, and the stage is made for his aerials and U-Tilt to work amazingly.
I didn't think dthrow > usmash worked on Wolf? Idk, I keep getting mixed answers on that one lol, but it wouldn't change the MU really because there's smallstep CG > ledge infinite > dtilt that basically 0-deaths us anyways (in theory, at least).
Skipping past the rest of your post because you tend to overrate your character and I'm pretty sure you know very little about Wolf's performance on these stages (no offense, I mean, why would anyone bother to really know Wolf unless they mained him lol), but IMO it's a definite -3 for Wolf. D3 is our worst MU, but Wolf gets a decent boost on his CP and can barely overcome the MU on neutral stages with ridiculously consistent spacing, lots of camping, and extreme offstage presence. That and D3's inability to actually force us to approach stops it from being on that unwinnable status, but the risk/reward when Wolf tries to do something is so ridiculously skewed X_x
I still do it anyways and it's always a horrible idea lol. So many pocket MKs for that stage :/ with MK banned, it's an awesome CP though.
Doc King
Smash Lord
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+3 King Dedede sounds good too. You are right that Wolf has a few good options like the blaster, fast air attacks, etc. But overall, King Dedede beats Wolf very good. It's probably a +4 on Rainbow and Halberd.I didn't think dthrow > usmash worked on Wolf? Idk, I keep getting mixed answers on that one lol, but it wouldn't change the MU really because there's smallstep CG > ledge infinite > dtilt that basically 0-deaths us anyways (in theory, at least).
Skipping past the rest of your post because you tend to overrate your character and I'm pretty sure you know very little about Wolf's performance on these stages (no offense, I mean, why would anyone bother to really know Wolf unless they mained him lol), but IMO it's a definite -3 for Wolf. D3 is our worst MU, but Wolf gets a decent boost on his CP and can barely overcome the MU on neutral stages with ridiculously consistent spacing, lots of camping, and extreme offstage presence. That and D3's inability to actually force us to approach stops it from being on that unwinnable status, but the risk/reward when Wolf tries to do something is so ridiculously skewed X_x
I still do it anyways and it's always a horrible idea lol. So many pocket MKs for that stage :/ with MK banned, it's an awesome CP though.
It's not -that- bad. Probably a strong +2, but it's hardly unwinnable as long as Wolf camps like he's Wario.
Doc King
Smash Lord
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Wario can't camp lol.
Wolf's camping isn't that great. He only has one projectile, which is good, but D3 can just shield it and just apporach Wolf. It isn't that hard to approach. Also you're gonna have to approach at some point or else D3 will beat you with a time out.
Wolf's camping isn't that great. He only has one projectile, which is good, but D3 can just shield it and just apporach Wolf. It isn't that hard to approach. Also you're gonna have to approach at some point or else D3 will beat you with a time out.
I lost. HARD.
Implying camping is based on projectiles. Also implying waddle throw > laser. Also implying that DDD wins a timeout when both are at 0%.
What are your reasonings for RC and Halberd? Do not underestimate Wolf's ability to dance around a stage like RC, and he's very good at utilizing central platforms like the one one Halberd. Not that I'd CP these stages (unsure about RC, I know about the infinite because of the stage moving and temporary walls and no ledges etc etc, but that stage gives Wolf more options to not get grabbed; Halberd's low ceiling kinda makes D3's utilt more of an issue so idk how I'd feel about going there either), but I don't see what would make them that much worse.
Eh... possibly, but it's definitely Wolf's hardest MU so most of us are leaning towards -3 to differentiate it from Pikachu and Wario. I suppose it isn't much worse than Wario's MU with D3 in comparison, right?
On time-outs... here's the short version:
Wolf can make back a % lead pretty easily, and dancing around on platforms is very effective against D3 imo, especially higher ones like on BF or the floating part of Delfino. You'll have a hard time catching Wolf in the air as D3, I assure you. Wolf can approach and whatnot, it's just really skewed risk/reward which is what makes the MU so bad. Well, that combined with how D3 can force Wolf onto the ledge and shut him down there.
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