Ntsc vs pal

[Grim Tuesday]

So many comments as if puff is ****** the PAL scene.

Despite the changes the main choice of characters are pretty much the same... I don't know why people are all like "lololol europe = all peach and puff cuz the other chars are nerfed".

Marth got like 1 nerf, falco is barely nerfed at all, fox got a couple of strength nerfs and sheik got a few more nerfs too, but all of these characters are still extremely good and are the more dominant / often used characters in the game.

Every tournament I go to is like Fox falco marth fox fox. Occasionally I'll have to play a sheik or peach.

About time someone brought that up.

I see tons of Sheiks, Falcos and Foxs around South Australia. I've played a few Puffs and a VERY small amount of Peachs. :/

 

[Archangel]

holy hell Aussie's play smash? I didn't even know you guys existed in the smash scene. I mean Jiggs hasn't taken over the scene in PAL but PAL Jiggs players aren't as good as our best Jiggs tbh. If it was somehow possible to Mod a melee disk to play both PAL and NTSC at the same time then I'd like to see a NTSC vs PAL crew battle. The Truth would pretty much show up. Aside from that I hate this thread. It was fun for a bit but now I just hate it. I hate the fact that Threads are being closed around it and somehow this **** is still open. What do you gotta do to get this thread ****ing closed?

 

[Aussierob123]

Australia has quite a large smash scene for our population, only our metagame is so far behind. M2k is comming to our next major too. (everyone will get trashed).

Also lol, I don't know where the perception that jiggs is 100x more superior in PAL has come from. There isn't THAT many differences in the game.

Take marth and falco for instance, marths dair is no longer a spike. :O big deal barely anybody tries to spike a jiggs with marth anyway. And falco, HALF of his dair has been changed to not spike. So his dair is a spike half the time and just a random *** knock back the other half. Again, it affects the game slightly but not MASSIVELY. These changes barely affect the jiggs matchup at all.

The huge difference is in fox, being that his usmash is weaker in PAL. It still KO's jiggs though, just at about 20% more (which isn't that much % higher anyway).

My point is that these characters arent lolwtf useless, at most they are only subjectively worse, like marth cant spike spacies after grab combos at the edge. big deal, the matchups are still played very much the same. And you're right, jiggs doesn't dominate here because there aren't as many jiggs mains at the US level, but put the US players of ALL characters in PAL the differences wouldn't be THAT massive. Jiggs would just own foxes a little bit harder lol.

Except for sheik. Sheik is just stupid in PAL lol. Still a strong character, but her metagame in PAL is completely different.

 

[Archangel]

Australia has quite a large smash scene for our population, only our metagame is so far behind. M2k is comming to our next major too. (everyone will get trashed).

Also lol, I don't know where the perception that jiggs is 100x more superior in PAL has come from. There isn't THAT many differences in the game.

Take marth and falco for instance, marths dair is no longer a spike. :O big deal barely anybody tries to spike a jiggs with marth anyway. And falco, HALF of his dair has been changed to not spike. So his dair is a spike half the time and just a random *** knock back the other half. Again, it affects the game slightly but not MASSIVELY. These changes barely affect the jiggs matchup at all.

The huge difference is in fox, being that his usmash is weaker in PAL. It still KO's jiggs though, just at about 20% more (which isn't that much % higher anyway).

My point is that these characters arent lolwtf useless, at most they are only subjectively worse, like marth cant spike spacies after grab combos at the edge. big deal, the matchups are still played very much the same. And you're right, jiggs doesn't dominate here because there aren't as many jiggs mains at the US level, but put the US players of ALL characters in PAL the differences wouldn't be THAT massive. Jiggs would just own foxes a little bit harder lol.

Except for sheik. Sheik is just stupid in PAL lol. Still a strong character, but her metagame in PAL is completely different.

You Play Captain Falcon so your opinion on this suddenly means less imo(Joke) lol. I Main Marth. I eat sleep and breath Marth. Not having a Spike is a Big god**** deal to me. As for Puff, I struggle enough with Sheik/Marth against Jiggs so I've had to re-learn Fox in order to try and do something against Puff. Honestly though I can't believe you think 20% isn't a big deal. If 1-5% depending on DI is the difference between winning or losing how can 20% be no big deal? Falco....he's not worth complaining about. what about the others?

Mario(I think doc but idk), and Fox are lighter which means even more doom
Sheik is still cool with Tilts but her Dthrow is gone and her Fair/Uair are nerfed to hell
Marth is also Lighter and is shine-spiked easier and I can't tell you how much the amazing history of our Marth would currently not exist if he didnt have his Spike.
Not to mention Our Ganon/Samus/IC's/Link/Luigi Players are screwed over as well.

Balanced? maybe Pika/Mewtwo/yoshi have a slightly greater chance of winning but the cost for those 3 is too great. imo.

I also forgot bowser gets ****** as well.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You Play Captain Falcon so your opinion on this suddenly means less imo(Joke) lol. I Main Marth. I eat sleep and breath Marth. Not having a Spike is a Big god**** deal to me. As for Puff, I struggle enough with Sheik/Marth against Jiggs so I've had to re-learn Fox in order to try and do something against Puff. Honestly though I can't believe you think 20% isn't a big deal. If 1-5% depending on DI is the difference between winning or losing how can 20% be no big deal? Falco....he's not worth complaining about. what about the others?

Mario(I think doc but idk), and Fox are lighter which means even more doom
Sheik is still cool with Tilts but her Dthrow is gone and her Fair/Uair are nerfed to hell
Marth is also Lighter and is shine-spiked easier and I can't tell you how much the amazing history of our Marth would currently not exist if he didnt have his Spike.
Not to mention Our Ganon/Samus/IC's/Link/Luigi Players are screwed over as well.

Balanced? maybe Pika/Mewtwo/yoshi have a slightly greater chance of winning but the cost for those 3 is too great. imo.

I also forgot bowser gets ****** as well.

I'm afraid your opinion means quite a lot less to me, because you haven't played PAL from what I can tell, and you didn't even realise Australia had a smash scene.

Everything goes exactly the same here, wether you like spiking with Marth or not is irrelevant, the high tiers are the same with the very possible inclusion of Peach, and they are still in roughly the same order as well.

 

[Archangel]

I'm afraid your opinion means quite a lot less to me, because you haven't played PAL from what I can tell, and you didn't even realise Australia had a smash scene.

Everything goes exactly the same here, wether you like spiking with Marth or not is irrelevant, the high tiers are the same with the very possible inclusion of Peach, and they are still in roughly the same order as well.

Well If everyone is nerf'd Then all you did was make a slightly less enjoyable version of the game...so what is the point. Also your smash scene is nothing like our. We have Ganon, Link, Bowser, Fox(our foxes are players are different.) I won't use the word better but our Spacies as a whole have spent to many years playing to suddenly get nerf'd. Sheik...I don't care about sheik tbh. The Results may be the same I guess but I have a feeling if your players mixed with our players and we both switched versions. I bet it would change your landscape a little bit. First thing is the best player would probably be a sheik and thats some characters may place higher after a year. If We used that version it would change our region alot though. Pretty much All Ganons would quit. Half the Foxes would convert to Falco, Puffs would place higher(God help us) Peach players would be happier. Wobbling would be unbanned, Players like Germ and other links would probably not play or switch out. The slight re-emergence of Marth would wither away and Die......hmmmm it would pretty much destroy the smash scene in some regions and over populate falco's, Peaches...in other regions. Idk....its a bad idea. Btw I played the PAL Version about a year. This Norwegian guy from my older bro's college had a PAL version and I played like 8 matches and I hated it. I picked Sheik and Threw someone down and nothing happend. I ken Combo'd The dude and he recovered and I died, I Shine Up smashed him at 90ish % and he lived. idk...I didn't like it. Everything about it felt wrong and I haven't played/don't want to play it since that time.

 

[Aussierob123]

You Play Captain Falcon so your opinion on this suddenly means less imo(Joke) lol.

O_o I don't know what you're talking about with like 80% of what you said. Bowser isn't nerfed at all as far as I'm aware. Neither is Samus, IC's, Luigi's nair is slightly less powerful but it's his nair, it's only used for combos and it still works fine. Ganon's nerf is noticeable for sure, ganon is another character besides sheik that plays very differently.

in the case of jiggs or peach vs fox the usmash isn't quite 20% difference for a kill, its closer to 10-15% for the kill. You're right, it's a big deal, but the fact remains that fox is still a very viable character with his combos, pressure game and gimps (just not so much against jiggs)

The only reason armada dominates with peach is because he's an exceptionally talented player. Not because Peach > PAL. As it stands, falco, marth, fox and sheik probably still own PAL, and Jiggs would if somebody in PAL mained her as well as the NTSC players did. Hell, falcon can re-grab peach after dthrow in PAL, so he becomes even more of an obstacle for her.

The biggest difference is that sheik is a totally different character in PAL, but shes still very strong compared to most of the cast.

TLDR:
Point being, the game is more balanced, but it's still very similar. Jiggs in theory should beat everyone, but it's the same for NTSC. She's just too good in both versions. Peach isn't omgwtf hax in PAL.

Edit: Link's UP is no longer a semi spike. Is that why people will quit link?

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

wow i just realized spam arrows is a massive ****** im so glad i havent read any of his posts (up until now)
*adds spam arrows to ignore list*

 

[Archangel]

Link doesn't have his bomb recovery which is all that keeps his heavy *** from dying many times. As for your opinion mattering less it's because Captain Falcon doesn't really move at all between versions lol. I know Armada is good, Not just good but great. He is Peach at her full potential and a Peach at full potential will not lose to anyone in PAL except Jiggs, another peach(if somehow a peach got as good as him but i don't see it) or a Falco maybe. Fox could probably still win but having an extra 18% Damage pad(It's 18% I looked it up) as well as Fox being overall weaker I think that match is pretty much delt with with the right stage bans. Peach isn't greater in PAL it's just her bad match ups are nerfed so that they are either Even or Slight peach now with the exception of Falcon who pretty much doesn't give a **** what version as well as Jiggs Who goes from being the Top of Top tier in NTSC to being in a GOD tier in PAL. All hope is lost in PAL. thats your problem though because NTSC will always be our standard version so once some PUFF's as good as Hbox start showing up....I feel so bad for you guys. I don't know why people think I don't like Armada btw. I love Armada...what I wouldn't have friend requested him if I didn't. I think APEX will reveal a little bit more if the pattern continues though. I mean at Genesis the Magic Armada had was off the scale. He ended up getting 2nd though because Mango started pressing DownB. Pound 4. Armada got 2 places lower. Still top 5 but he seemed less UNSTOPPABLE then before. Maybe it's because Eurape had know Falcons. I mean who knows what would have happened if Hax had grabbed the edge on game 3. Still once he got past the Falcons he started looking like better though. Idk. I think Armada would **** no matter which version he played tbh. I just feel he wouldn't Dominate in NTSC even in the even Hbox and Mango were not around. I mean him vs M2K was a won by a hair and Zhu looked like he had him figured out in Crews. I think the competition in NTSC version better serves someone of Armada's skill level. Of course he plays for money so it's natural he'd want to play PAL because...that means more money and easier money. That is until Mango and Armada go to a PAL tournament. I can't wait to see everyone's response on these boards when that happens.

Ok i'mma switch sides and see if that gets this closed. PAL>NTSC America is full of ******s and Socialists.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Well If everyone is nerf'd Then all you did was make a slightly less enjoyable version of the game...so what is the point. Also your smash scene is nothing like our. We have Ganon, Link, Bowser, Fox(our foxes are players are different.) I won't use the word better but our Spacies as a whole have spent to many years playing to suddenly get nerf'd. Sheik...I don't care about sheik tbh. The Results may be the same I guess but I have a feeling if your players mixed with our players and we both switched versions. I bet it would change your landscape a little bit. First thing is the best player would probably be a sheik and thats some characters may place higher after a year. If We used that version it would change our region alot though. Pretty much All Ganons would quit. Half the Foxes would convert to Falco, Puffs would place higher(God help us) Peach players would be happier. Wobbling would be unbanned, Players like Germ and other links would probably not play or switch out. The slight re-emergence of Marth would wither away and Die......hmmmm it would pretty much destroy the smash scene in some regions and over populate falco's, Peaches...in other regions. Idk....its a bad idea. Btw I played the PAL Version about a year. This Norwegian guy from my older bro's college had a PAL version and I played like 8 matches and I hated it. I picked Sheik and Threw someone down and nothing happend. I ken Combo'd The dude and he recovered and I died, I Shine Up smashed him at 90ish % and he lived. idk...I didn't like it. Everything about it felt wrong and I haven't played/don't want to play it since that time.

I don't think you are taking into account what I am saying.

Our community is the same.

We have Marths, Puffs don't place higher, Foxes don't convert to Falcos, etc...

Notice how the things nerfed are the more broken aspects of the game?
Being able to KO a player as Marth with a two-hit combo has been nerfed. Sheik's down throw which prevented most low tiers from beating her has been nerfed. Fox (the best character in the game) has had his main killing move nerfed.

The reason you don't want to change is just because you are stubborn.

Link doesn't have his bomb recovery which is all that keeps his heavy *** from dying many times. As for your opinion mattering less it's because Captain Falcon doesn't really move at all between versions lol. I know Armada is good, Not just good but great. He is Peach at her full potential and a Peach at full potential will not lose to anyone in PAL except Jiggs, another peach(if somehow a peach got as good as him but i don't see it) or a Falco maybe. Fox could probably still win but having an extra 18% Damage pad(It's 18% I looked it up) as well as Fox being overall weaker I think that match is pretty much delt with with the right stage bans. Peach isn't greater in PAL it's just her bad match ups are nerfed so that they are either Even or Slight peach now with the exception of Falcon who pretty much doesn't give a **** what version as well as Jiggs Who goes from being the Top of Top tier in NTSC to being in a GOD tier in PAL. All hope is lost in PAL. thats your problem though because NTSC will always be our standard version so once some PUFF's as good as Hbox start showing up....I feel so bad for you guys. I don't know why people think I don't like Armada btw. I love Armada...what I wouldn't have friend requested him if I didn't. I think APEX will reveal a little bit more if the pattern continues though. I mean at Genesis the Magic Armada had was off the scale. He ended up getting 2nd though because Mango started pressing DownB. Pound 4. Armada got 2 places lower. Still top 5 but he seemed less UNSTOPPABLE then before. Maybe it's because Eurape had know Falcons. I mean who knows what would have happened if Hax had grabbed the edge on game 3. Still once he got past the Falcons he started looking like better though. Idk. I think Armada would **** no matter which version he played tbh. I just feel he wouldn't Dominate in NTSC even in the even Hbox and Mango were not around. I mean him vs M2K was a won by a hair and Zhu looked like he had him figured out in Crews. I think the competition in NTSC version better serves someone of Armada's skill level. Of course he plays for money so it's natural he'd want to play PAL because...that means more money and easier money. That is until Mango and Armada go to a PAL tournament. I can't wait to see everyone's response on these boards when that happens.

Ok i'mma switch sides and see if that gets this closed. PAL>NTSC America is full of ******s and Socialists.

I think that's a good idea.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

spam arrows youre just so ****ing stupid do you even read your own posts seriously

 

[Archangel]

spam arrows youre just so ****ing stupid do you even read your own posts seriously

I'm sorry If I had known you would unignore me so fast I would have.....

I almost never read something after I hit submit reply. Especially not in this thread. If I did that would mean I took myself and especially this thread way to seriously. As for you I think you are quite full of yourself and you seem really serious. Now according to you I am ****ing stupid but you've never met me? Nor do you know what knowledge is held beyond my screen name inside this skull. You haven't seen my test scores ever in your life and yet your quite sure that your that your neurons are firing faster then mine. How could you draw such a conclusion? I could post here that I believe 5 + 5 = 30 that doesn't mean I believe it lol. Just so you know this is the internet and you see what I want you to see. Nothing more or nothing less my friend and until you get your name legally changed to Daniel Webster you can't define me.

Good day sir.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

Mike's insults and accusations of America being nazi patriots didn't even bother me.

but whenever I read spam_arrows' posts I cringe and clench my fists.

 

[Archangel]

Mike's insults and accusations of America being nazi patriots didn't even bother me.

but whenever I read spam_arrows' posts I cringe and clench my fists.

Who are you? Why the hate on such a loving thread? I recognize you now. Your that guy thats been my shadow the past week. You had something negative to say all 3 times we've posted on the same page. As if you are shadowing me to try and ruin my fun or something. Whats up with that man? You had something to say about the in regards to a post I made in the MU-chart thread but it didn't really matter because it wasn't me that believed Y-link was even with high tiers(laughable I agree). I do remember you making a remark in a match when I got rested 3 times in 30 seconds. (Hungrybox liked it but you didnt ) Then I also remember you responding to me about something in this thread. You and some others somehow haven't got it threw your head that with the exception of a few things nothing I say in this thread carries any weight to me. I'm simply saying **** till it gets closed because i need a reason to increase my post count more or less. Why your shadowing me and taken away my fun I'm not sure. You can remain my shadow if you want though I don't care. When I go outside I'll be standing upright...butt if you are my shadow then where will you be?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm sorry If I had known you would unignore me so fast I would have.....

I almost never read something after I hit submit reply. Especially not in this thread. If I did that would mean I took myself and especially this thread way to seriously. As for you I think you are quite full of yourself and you seem really serious. Now according to you I am ****ing stupid but you've never met me? Nor do you know what knowledge is held beyond my screen name inside this skull. You haven't seen my test scores ever in your life and yet your quite sure that your that your neurons are firing faster then mine. How could you draw such a conclusion? I could post here that I believe 5 + 5 = 30 that doesn't mean I believe it lol. Just so you know this is the internet and you see what I want you to see. Nothing more or nothing less my friend and until you get your name legally changed to Daniel Webster you can't define me.

Good day sir.

I don't know if you were trying to seem intelligent by being literal minded or what, but that is completely irrelevant.

If you are perceived as stupid, you can be called stupid. You're previous posts have led others and myself to believe you are stupid. If you don't want to be called stupid, don't post stupid posts.

Stupid.

 

[Siglemic]

spam arrows is trolling, you guys are silly =]

 

[Archangel]

I don't know if you were trying to seem intelligent by being literal minded or what, but that is completely irrelevant.

If you are perceived as stupid, you can be called stupid. You're previous posts have led others and myself to believe you are stupid. If you don't want to be called stupid, don't post stupid posts.

I am Stupid.

Seriously I have no time for keyboard soldiers If you are going to ignore me then ignore me but don't waist my time. Especially considering the great distance between the 2 of us and the fact that you'll likely never end up at a venue I attend. Therefore any trash talk that would ensue is a waist. Let me know if you decide to go to Pound 5 or Apex 2 or something like that. I'd like to meet you and see what a Keyboard crusader looks like. Until then......I can't see anything you post.

Good bye sir.

 

[megapup]

i would go as far as to say that falcos nerf makes almost NO difference at all. you need 5 minutes to learn how to time the dair a bit better thats all. Falcon did get changed versions, a change more significant than you would think as i still see top falcons mesing up gentlemens and getting punished for it. as for my contribution to the discussion, i think PAL is more balanced but NTSC is probably more fun. so, because pretty much everyone uses top tiers or high tiers anyway PAL might not necessarily be better. In australia (we use pal here) i dont see jiggs rapeing. what about europe?

 

[PottyJokes]

spam arrows : *super serious and extremely stupid post*

other people : ur dumb spam

spam arrows : LOL NO I WAS TROLLING IM REALLY NOT STUPID!Q


nice save bro.

 

[X1-12]

i would go as far as to say that falcos nerf makes almost NO difference at all. you need 5 minutes to learn how to time the dair a bit better thats all. Falcon did get changed versions, a change more significant than you would think as i still see top falcons mesing up gentlemens and getting punished for it. as for my contribution to the discussion, i think PAL is more balanced but NTSC is probably more fun. so, because pretty much everyone uses top tiers or high tiers anyway PAL might not necessarily be better. In australia (we use pal here) i dont see jiggs rapeing. what about europe?

I don't see no jiggs ruling over here

jiggs I think is the least used top/high tier character in the UK

 

[Grim Tuesday]

spam arrows : *super serious and extremely stupid post*

other people : ur dumb spam

spam arrows : LOL NO I WAS TROLLING IM REALLY NOT STUPID!Q


nice save bro.

Exactly.

Seriously I have no time for keyboard soldiers If you are going to ignore me then ignore me but don't waist my time. Especially considering the great distance between the 2 of us and the fact that you'll likely never end up at a venue I attend. Therefore any trash talk that would ensue is a waist. Let me know if you decide to go to Pound 5 or Apex 2 or something like that. I'd like to meet you and see what a Keyboard crusader looks like. Until then......I can't see anything you post.

Good bye sir.

.
.
.
Yes.

i would go as far as to say that falcos nerf makes almost NO difference at all. you need 5 minutes to learn how to time the dair a bit better thats all. Falcon did get changed versions, a change more significant than you would think as i still see top falcons mesing up gentlemens and getting punished for it. as for my contribution to the discussion, i think PAL is more balanced but NTSC is probably more fun. so, because pretty much everyone uses top tiers or high tiers anyway PAL might not necessarily be better. In australia (we use pal here) i dont see jiggs rapeing. what about europe?

Hey man, what state do you live in? It's so hard to find good people to Smash against here...

 

[Tamoo]

lol pottyjokes pretty much hit the nail on the head

And yeah, jiggs is hardly used at all over here, which is bad for me because it makes me proportionally more gay and i love fighting gainst jiggs unlike what seems is the majority of swf :/

 

[gm jack]

I don't see no jiggs ruling over here

jiggs I think is the least used top/high tier character in the UK

There aren't many Peaches wither, though VA is pretty **** good.

@Spam Arrows

Sheik's Fair isn't weaker. Only her Uair and Usmash are weaker. Tipper Usmash is still insanely strong and Uair work better for mid percent combos now. And the Dthrow change against most people just mean you have to tech chase or follow what they do rather than have a given set of follow ups. Still a really good character.

 

[Tamoo]

There aren't many Peaches wither, though VA is pretty **** good.

There's quite a few peaches actually, VA, kman, Amcd, callum, leliel, almas and im sure im missing some more.

Jiggs is really only me, brad and fandemz not that aiko's quit again.


On topic, I personally would rather play NTSC, NTSC marth just looks sooooo appealing, feels so much quicker

 

[AXE 09]

spam arrows : *super serious and extremely stupid post*

other people : ur dumb spam

spam arrows : LOL NO I WAS TROLLING IM REALLY NOT STUPID!Q


nice save bro.

Lol this pretty much sums up my thoughts.

Anyways, what's up with all the America vs Europe hate??? I've never been bias towards any country/region/state regardless of the location. I judge players by their individual playstyles and attitudes in regards to the game.

It really bothers me when someone from America says something like "All of the European smashers are so lame, this and that, and blah blah" because I have NEVER thought about a region as a whole.

Same with the reverse. When someone from Europe says things like "Americans are so erragant, selfish, stupid, etc etc." it really sux thinking that I'm included in that category of "America as a whole". Just because someone rests in a certain location does not mean that they have the same attitudes and habits as everyone around them does.

Basically, I hate all this arguing and stuff that our countries are having in this game. We should embrace the fact that we can all be united thanks to Melee, and we should judge a player based on their own individual characters, not on their location. Armada is my absolute favorite player because he's so nice and friendly, and his playstyle is the most amazing thing I've ever seen. Just because he's not in America like I am does not mean that I automatically don't like him.

On the flipside, just because I like Armada does not mean that I like every European. I also don't like every American. I could care less where a person is from; the only thing that matters is the actual individual person.

So Americans: don't say that all Europeans are lame, stupid, ********, etc. because it's not true.

Europeans: don't say that all Americans are lame, stupid, ********, etc. because that's not true either.

I never thought I'd run into this problem playing Melee. I thought we'd all be united by the game regardless of our origin.


EDIT:

I know that has nothing to do with the PAL vs NTSC discussion, but I kinda just wanted to say what was on my mind lol.

 

[Zoler]

spam arrows : *super serious and extremely stupid post*

other people : ur dumb spam

spam arrows : LOL NO I WAS TROLLING IM REALLY NOT STUPID!Q


nice save bro.

Exactly what I was thinking. Spam_arrows, ur dumb

 

[EPsilon933]

Why can't we be friends?

Because Americans don't want to play PAL because they're so desperate to get good at NTSC Melee that they're afraid playing PAL Melee will ruin their game. Ok, not every American hates PAL, but a lot do. There are people who insult me when I try to set up PAL. Melee isn't about fun, it's about winning, and you're not going to learn how to win with/against a weaker Sheik/Fox/Marth/Falco, for most Americans.

I play Zelda and all the top tiers are really mean to Zelda. I'm just trying to even out the game. There's a lot you can do by staying alive (not getting killed by waveShine to upsmash as badly) and there's a lot you can do by not getting throw comboed (Sheik's dthrow comboes).

I ask to play PAL during Smashfests, where there's no tournaments, and players just refuse.

 

[Deleted member]

Removed by Moderator

 

[stelzig]

Why is it so important to you that this topic gets locked spam_arrows? If you don't like it, just ignore it.
I also use marth, and actually somewhat prefer PAL marth just for the falling over from shine (the weight difference is very VERY minor), but the spike is indeed one of the reasons why i enjoy playing NTSC alot too. Marth Dair spike and hitting with the very powerful ganon Fair just feels very satisfying lol.

As for the Dair not meaning much in regards to edgeguarding i at least have some trouble with foxes coming up right next to the stage without the edgehog->Dair, and haven't really figured out a great way of edgeguarding them other than hoping they won't sweetspot (well on places like battlefield it isn't really a problem heh)

 

[Tero.]

Why is it so important to you that this topic gets locked spam_arrows? If you don't like it, just ignore it.
I also use marth, and actually somewhat prefer PAL marth just for the falling over from shine (the weight difference is very VERY minor), but the spike is indeed one of the reasons why i enjoy playing NTSC alot too. Marth Dair spike and hitting with the very powerful ganon Fair just feels very satisfying lol.

As for the Dair not meaning much in regards to edgeguarding i at least have some trouble with foxes coming up right next to the stage without the edgehog->Dair, and haven't really figured out a great way of edgeguarding them other than hoping they won't sweetspot (well on places like battlefield it isn't really a problem heh)

Lately I've had people (someone from South America) complaining about PAL Marth because he falls from shine and gets shinespiked more often than NTSC Marth.

 

[PottyJokes]

why is every euro obssessed with japanese. even moreso than magus

 

[Zoler]

Lately I've had people (someone from South America) complaining about PAL Marth because he falls from shine and gets shinespiked more often than NTSC Marth.

Why would that make you get shinespiked easier?

 

[Tero.]

Why would that make you get shinespiked easier?

If you don't hold towards the stage or get shined at a unfavorable distance you don't immediately grab the edge leaving you more vulnarable to edgeguard attempts.

 

[oakleaf]

I think a good way to view the situation is to withdraw the developpers point of view. The team that made Melee did a base work ("masterpiece" would be more appropriate though), and then improved on it as much as they could given the time they were given before the releases of the game.

PAL version came last, so it is the version that they refined the most, because they had the time to do it. To my eyes, PAL represents their vision better. This is quite idealistic, but I like to think of it that way.

Now when it comes to the question "what will be played?", the answer is very practical. NTSC is the most accessible version in the US, and the US are the heart of the Melee scene, so it's gonna be NTSC in the end.

It's not a bad thing because we already have tremendous variety and richness in today's Melee, but it's interesting to imagine what it would be if PAL was adopted.

By the way, I'm using PAL at home because I live in France, but I'm considering buying a NTSC version. It's really frustrating to play and not being able combo like the pros on Youtube, just because, well, their combos would not work on a PAL version.

 

[Let It Riot]

So despite all of the idiotic posting I have seen here, what I have ascertained is that the PAL supporters claim that the top tier is nerfed, but still in the same order, while the lower tiers now have a better chance at winning.

The NTSC crowd says that jiggs will be even stronger in PAL, which would be detrimental to the meta-game. The PAL guys counter this by saying that there are very few jiggs players in the meta-game.

NTSC players also state that there aren't anymore (or maybe even less) low tier PAL players. PAL then counters with the fact that that is just a player preference not an indicator of balance.

So what we're left to is a whole pile of opinions with very few substantial facts. Jiggs could be a hell of a lot better in PAL, but PAL doesn't have players to show this. But the NTSC players also don't have the experience with PAL to show that they would break the game if they use PAL.

You can't actually show that the meta-game would change, because, surprise surprise it's not feasible to massively switch versions to see how different regions respond to the game play changes.

In the end, it seems that PAL and NTSC play very similarly, with largely the same characters. The only difference is that PAL has slightly worse characters from the balance nerfs. Thus NTSC seems to be just as attractive as a version because the most played characters are better (some would say more gay), thus the large majority of players would have a bit more "fun". On the other hand PAL gives more chances to the minority of players that use the non top tier characters. It appears we are at a stand still, and that is of course ignoring the sheer impossibility of any of this mattering because there is no way in hell either region could entirely switch versions in a practical and quick manner.

 

[Professor :3]

im so smart n deep l0l

rgthyhrtdfbdfb

 

[EPsilon933]

Now when it comes to the question "what will be played?", the answer is very practical. NTSC is the most accessible version in the US, and the US are the heart of the Melee scene, so it's gonna be NTSC in the end.

It's not a bad thing because we already have tremendous variety and richness in today's Melee, but it's interesting to imagine what it would be if PAL was adopted.

If I had the money to buy extra wiis and I could host tournaments, I would hack them all and burn copies of PAL Melee to be played. The better character balance can promote more character variety among players.

 

[PottyJokes]

hmm, by character diversity you mean more low tiers? i really don't see that happening

 

[Zoler]

hmm, by character diversity you mean more low tiers? i really don't see that happening

From one tournament, no, that won't happen. More like if a large area played it over some time.

 

[EPsilon933]

hmm, by character diversity you mean more low tiers? i really don't see that happening

Yeah, me. You don't know how much Zelda can do by being alive against Fox longer and by not getting dthrow comboed by Sheik. They don't have to be low tiers, they can be mid-high tiers too. Aren't most tournaments (local, regional, national, world, all sizes of tournaments) won mainly by Sheik/Fox/Marth/Falco? Why not let Jigglypuff and Peach join them? I'd imagine some of the mid and high tiers being able to place closer to the top would be a good thing.