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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

BritishGuy54

Smash Journeyman
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Dec 14, 2020
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I DID want to add Malos but uhhh He's NOT IN the smash maker and I didnt feel like making an icon at the time of making it.
Why Malos? I get he’s a villain, and helps fulfil the trinity of the series, but as DLC? In what would likely be the late 2020’s? Unless you were thinking of a future Xenoblade 2DE…

In my opinion, it definitely will.
Too many predictions treat Smash as a marketing showcase instead of as its own thing.
I think online usage will be taken into some consideration. But obviously marketing is a big part of it too.
 
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Perkilator

Smash Legend
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The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
What are some pure BIAS Most Wanted?
I Know she will NEVER get in in any form, but Marina Liteyears would be just below Shantae for me in terms of hype. Smash Remix is the best I can get and frankly its quality is on par with an official Smash release.
Honestly…there’s a lot of characters I want but Estelle Bright is one of my more “out-there” picks.
 

Oracle Link

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This Rivals mod moveset is a pretty good compromise that doesn't shy away from rooting the swordsman in some general Dark Matter-isms too. I like it a lot, although he's never quite been anywhere near my top choice for Kirby. I'm just not that pressed for Kirby to have a "real" main villain or anything, many of his came-and-went friends and foes are more compelling characters and Dark Matter is more of an idea than a character usually.

Honestly, I think I'd rather just add Gooey if this was the direction we were gonna go with it.



I still think Galacta Knight is a better choice. I really like Morpho Knight but I dunno, I think Galacta Knight is more firmly rooted in the series and works as a better foil and rival for Meta Knight specifically. I don't think there's any particular drive to add him right now, unless he ends up being sort of a late stage addition using assets from MK like Wolf and Fox, but still. We don't even really know what Morpho's deal is yet.
We do know hes apparently a judge of those who are about to die!
Whatever that means!
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Dec 1, 2019
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4,034
As far as DK64, its a tricky topic for me because while there's definitely gameplay bloat, my immediate issue at the time was that it felt the atmosphere and the feeling of the DKC trilogy was a bit lost in the jump to 3D. Mario obviously shifted from a beginning to end level design to open stage with collection, but the spirit of the NES and SNES still felt like it was there. DK64 is solid enough, it's just that between the loss of Dixie, the shift in soundtrack style, and more colorful aesthetic emphasis, it can't help but feel like a Banjo Kazooie title with a DK skin at points.

A solid title that just never quite lives up to the dream of 3D Donkey Kong as I've imagined.
 

fogbadge

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As far as DK64, its a tricky topic for me because while there's definitely gameplay bloat, my immediate issue at the time was that it felt the atmosphere and the feeling of the DKC trilogy was a bit lost in the jump to 3D. Mario obviously shifted from a beginning to end level design to open stage with collection, but the spirit of the NES and SNES still felt like it was there. DK64 is solid enough, it's just that between the loss of Dixie, the shift in soundtrack style, and more colorful aesthetic emphasis, it can't help but feel like a Banjo Kazooie title with a DK skin at points.

A solid title that just never quite lives up to the dream of 3D Donkey Kong as I've imagined.
hey she may not be there but her spirit lived on through her sister and cousin
 

Greenhorne Ethan

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What are some pure BIAS Most Wanted?
I Know she will NEVER get in in any form, but Marina Liteyears would be just below Shantae for me in terms of hype. Smash Remix is the best I can get and frankly its quality is on par with an official Smash release.
Maybe not PURE bias because I think she has a decent shot, but my personal most-wanted is definitely Arle. I think Puyo Puyo is shaping up to have a large enough international presence.
 

NintenRob

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What are some pure BIAS Most Wanted?
I Know she will NEVER get in in any form, but Marina Liteyears would be just below Shantae for me in terms of hype. Smash Remix is the best I can get and frankly its quality is on par with an official Smash release.
I unashamedly want Baby Mario.

He's my main in all the games he's in, so I want him in Smash, it's that simple. I know I know, beating up Babies. It's cartoony enough it should be fine, especially with crazy stuff that happens in Mario Kart and Partners in Time
 

AreJay25

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What are some pure BIAS Most Wanted?
I Know she will NEVER get in in any form, but Marina Liteyears would be just below Shantae for me in terms of hype. Smash Remix is the best I can get and frankly its quality is on par with an official Smash release.
Klonoa. No shot he ever makes it in, even with his games getting remastered a few years back, but I've always been a fan of the little guy and his series. Would jump through the roof if he ever got announced.
 
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Speed Weed

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What are some pure BIAS Most Wanted?
I Know she will NEVER get in in any form, but Marina Liteyears would be just below Shantae for me in terms of hype. Smash Remix is the best I can get and frankly its quality is on par with an official Smash release.
If we mean "things I want that aren't getting in".....Sakura Shinguji and Shiori Fujisaki. They're both in the same camp of being characters from very well-regarded 90s Japanese franchises who are probably never going to get in because of how regionally lopsided they are. A shame, because I love them both.

Additionally, retro Namco characters not from Pac-Man. I love Namco's 80s and early 90s stable of arcade characters, and so many of them have fantastic designs and would be lovely to see in a fighting game....but the vast majority of them are from extremely old games that have not gotten sequels in a long time if at all, and most of them are also barely popular outside of Japan. I'm already counting my blessings that Pac-Man himself pays such loving tribute to the pre-merger arcade era of Namco
 

CapitaineCrash

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Canada, Québec
Aside from already having content in Smash, DOOM is a very iconic series, pioneering the FPS genre (something Sakurai has pointed out), has its whole series on Nintendo consoles, and the Doom Slayer Mii costume itself was one pf the best selling costumes in Ultimate among Japanese players. There's not really much standing in the way of Doom Slayer being a playable character in Smash.
Nintendo never shared the sales of Mii costume. I don't get where those "this costumes sold more than the others" come from. We have no idea.
 

Speed Weed

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Nintendo never shared the sales of Mii costume. I don't get where those "this costumes sold more than the others" come from. We have no idea.
A while back people found that they could sort Eshop items by "most popular" and used that to determine what were ostensibly the most successful Mii costumes and characters in each region. It should be noted, however, that the validity of this listing was debated, namely in terms of whether it factored in all-time sales or recent sales
 
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CapitaineCrash

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A while back people found that they could sort Eshop items by "most popular" and used that to determine what were ostensibly the most successful Mii costumes and characters in each region. It should be noted, however, that the validity of this listing was debated, namely in terms of whether it factored in all-time sales or recent sales
But iirc the "most popular" sorting is just like, best selling in the past 2 weeks. So of course, the newest wave will be more popular than the oldest. If anything it could still mean that Doom Slayer was the most popoular of his own wave, but that's not saying a lot considering that he released alongisde a Octoling wig and Judd hat.
 

Speed Weed

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But iirc the "most popular" sorting is just like, best selling in the past 2 weeks. So of course, the newest wave will be more popular than the oldest. If anything it could still mean that Doom Slayer was the most popoular of his own wave, but that's not saying a lot considering that he released alongisde a Octoling wig and Judd hat.
Yeah exactly, the listing likely wasn't what people thought it was - but it seems to still be used to determine these things sometimes even though it's been more or less discredited
 

waddledeeonredyoshi

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What are some pure BIAS Most Wanted?
I Know she will NEVER get in in any form, but Marina Liteyears would be just below Shantae for me in terms of hype. Smash Remix is the best I can get and frankly its quality is on par with an official Smash release.
I remeber back during the Fighters Pass I was gaslighting myself into believing The Knight from Hollow Knight was FP5 and they remained my 2nd most wanted for the rest of the DLC.

Flash forward to today and Hollow Knight will likely be old news by the time Smash 6 rolls around, especially if Team Cherry continues taking their sweet time with Silksong. Not to mention as an indie game it might likely be outprioritized by something like Undertale/Deltarune which has more staying power and momentum behind it. Point is while I'd still want them I'm no longer expecting the Knight as anything bigger than an Assist Trophy/Mii Costume.
 

fogbadge

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I remeber back during the Fighters Pass I was gaslighting myself into believing The Knight from Hollow Knight was FP5 and they remained my 2nd most wanted for the rest of the DLC.

Flash forward to today and Hollow Knight will likely be old news by the time Smash 6 rolls around, especially if Team Cherry continues taking their sweet time with Silksong. Not to mention as an indie game it might likely be outprioritized by something like Undertale/Deltarune which has more staying power and momentum behind it. Point is while I'd still want them I'm no longer expecting the Knight as anything bigger than an Assist Trophy/Mii Costume.
in fairness to team cherry a massive global pandemic probably set them back quite a bit
 

Will

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What are some pure BIAS Most Wanted?
I Know she will NEVER get in in any form, but Marina Liteyears would be just below Shantae for me in terms of hype. Smash Remix is the best I can get and frankly its quality is on par with an official Smash release.
Fulgore from Killer Instinct. The underrated mascot, the GOAT, and, fun fact, a Native American.

IMG_8161.gif
 

Gengar84

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Fulgore from Killer Instinct. The underrated mascot, the GOAT, and, fun fact, a Native American.

View attachment 385696
Fulgore is in my top 5 most wanted characters for Smash. He has such an awesome design and I was really into Killer Instinct back in the day. The 2013 game is great too and I played that one quite a bit as well. The whole series has amazing music too. I actually don’t think he’s out of the question for Smash thanks to the recent focus on bringing RARE games back to Nintendo consoles. Killer Instinct was even the focus of that announcement in the latest direct. There’s also rumors that there’s a new game in development. Maximilliandood has posted a few videos about that. I feel like things might actually line up in his favor this time around.


The video is 2 years old at this point so I’m not sure if there’s any truth to the rumor but he’s been pretty active in campaigning to bring the series back and Microsoft has acknowledged how much fans are making their voices heard. KI 2013 just had a balance patch 10 years after the game’s release so there is at least some attention being given to the series.
 
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Dinoman96

Smash Master
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Sep 22, 2013
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3,272
I honestly always thought Fulgore would low key make for a great 90s Nintendo rep because, just like Banjo-Kazooie, Nintendo flat out owned Killer Instinct (or at least co-owned it with Rare) prior to 2002. It's the only other original Rare property besides BK and like, Blast Corps to have that honor (everything else like Battletoads, Perfect Dark, Conker, etc were always fully owned by Rare, and obviously the DK games + SF Adventures are Nintendo's). It was treated by Nintendo of America as a big franchise of theirs alongside DK and Mario.


I do feel the two main things that hold KI back is 1. lack of Smash popularity in comparison to other Microsoft characters/series (Master Chief, Doomguy, Crash, etc) and 2. well, the fact that NCL didn't actually publish the original KI games on their platforms in Japan, it was really mostly a NOA thing unfortunately. I do know the new game and even the originals technically got a release there on Xbox...but it's Xbox so unfortunately it doesn't mean much.
 
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Sucumbio

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It's the little things during the off season that I love. TMNT is so much fun!
 

Gengar84

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It's the little things during the off season that I love. TMNT is so much fun!
I’d have to agree. TMNT is my favorite franchise ever and it’s always great to see it get more love. I actually played this on in an arcade years ago with my friends and thought it was pretty fun. Not quite on the level of Turtles in Time or Shredder’s Revenge but it was still enjoyable.
 

Wonder Smash

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But iirc the "most popular" sorting is just like, best selling in the past 2 weeks. So of course, the newest wave will be more popular than the oldest. If anything it could still mean that Doom Slayer was the most popoular of his own wave, but that's not saying a lot considering that he released alongisde a Octoling wig and Judd hat.
Don't know where you got the "2 weeks" from. And there were other high ranking costumes that came out long before the Doom Slayer Mii costume, so it wasn't because it just came from a new wave.
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
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Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,734
Yeah exactly, the listing likely wasn't what people thought it was - but it seems to still be used to determine these things sometimes even though it's been more or less discredited
Because that's not enough to discredit it. The fact that it might not be what people thought, but also maybe totally is, makes it a useful tool.

It's not definitive, but it's also not nothing.
 

CapitaineCrash

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Don't know where you got the "2 weeks" from. And there were other high ranking costumes that came out long before the Doom Slayer Mii costume, so it wasn't because it just came from a new wave.
Well that's just how online shop work. Usually when you sort by best selling it doesn't show all time best selling, it's just a key period (usually 2 weeks or a month).

And just to be sure, I just tested it. I wrote "Mario" in the Eshop search bar and I sort by best selling. You would think that number 1 would be Mario kart 8 deluxe, but it was actually... The Mario vs DK remake. So yeah, it definitely shows the best selling in some recent time period unless you want to argue that MArio vs DK sold more than Mario odyssey, Mario kart and Mario bros wonder.
 

Wonder Smash

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Well that's just how online shop work. Usually when you sort by best selling it doesn't show all time best selling, it's just a key period (usually 2 weeks or a month).

And just to be sure, I just tested it. I wrote "Mario" in the Eshop search bar and I sort by best selling. You would think that number 1 would be Mario kart 8 deluxe, but it was actually... The Mario vs DK remake. So yeah, it definitely shows the best selling in some recent time period unless you want to argue that MArio vs DK sold more than Mario odyssey, Mario kart and Mario bros wonder.
Then again, Mario vs DK is the newest game in the series to be released right now, so it's really no surprised that it would be at the top. That sounds a lot different from the Doom Slayer costume, which had older costumes ranked above it but was still ranked pretty high itself. even moreso than the other costumes that came with it.
 

Curious Villager

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Speaking of DK stuff question about Donkey Kong 64, what is the opinion of it? I didn't play it and know nothing about it I was actually surprised to learn of it's existence recently but it seems the game was a disappointment to some...
It was a fine game for the most part, so long as you're not looking to 100% it, the only thing I wish was that the Nintendo and Rareware coin's weren't mandatory to collect to get to the final Boss and that they cut down on the minigames a bit for the Golden Banana's, iirc DK64 had more minigames than even some actual Mario Party games did...
 
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fogbadge

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It was a fine game for the most part, so long as you're not looking to 100% it, the only thing I wish was that the Nintendo and Rareware coin's weren't mandatory to collect to get to the final Boss and that they cut down on the minigames a bit for the Golden Banana's, iirc DK64 had more minigames than even some actual Mario Party games did...
Mario party also never, as far as im aware, told you to get out before sniping at you
 

Louie G.

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Fulgore from Killer Instinct. The underrated mascot, the GOAT, and, fun fact, a Native American.
Honestly the more I've resonated on it, and after some good points posed earlier in the thread, I feel like Killer Instinct is a good choice for a secondary Rare "rep" - even though that circumstance is pretty unlikely. I had forgotten just how prominently it used to get showcased alongside those big, longstanding Nintendo IPs. I suppose at one point this was Nintendo's signature fighting game series, predating Smash and it still stands as one of the only traditional fighting game IPs they've had to their name. I guess it probably counts for something that it was treated as sort of the lead-in / main attraction for the recent NSO reveal too. I certainly think Fulgore holds a bit more weight than the likes of Conker, not sure how he stacks up with Battletoads.

Maybe we could see Fulgore show up as an Assist Trophy next game? I imagine that for fans of the series it'd be exciting to see him here at all. Perhaps they could even build a Mii Costume off the existing model after a little while, as they've done with a few other characters.

I'm not sure whether Master Chief will have violent introduction like this. I bet it would be more in line with savior figure. But, that may be my bias.
This is a really fun animation, but yeah I feel like if Chief made it in he probably wouldn't go on such a massacre. Then again, that wouldn't be so different than Mega Man immediately throwing hands. I just imagine Master Chief's reveal being one that poses is a bit more like a friendly sparring with a respected opponent like Samus. But maybe it'd go something like this if they want to make a big show of the crossover appeal.

Marina Liteyears is perhaps my favorite video game character of all time, and her being in Smash is my absolute impossible dream. The reason I never talk about her in prediction/want topics is because I just KNOW that, as the situation is now, she's never getting in. Being trapped in a single-console game with copyrights so all over the place that it has never been ported or re-released, it's simply not worth discussing her possibilities in Smash, because there are none.

If there is one thing I hope will happen someday, is that Mischief Makers gets picked up by Nintendo and gets a revival like they did with Bayonetta. That would absolutely open the "Marina for Smash" floodgates.
I'm very happy seeing Marina's name pop up this much, she's one of my big pipe dream picks too. My words aren't really properly coming together on it right now, but she just fits the essence of Smash incredibly well. I adore Treasure games and their designs are so much fun to boot, you look at Marina and you can already garner how unique she'd be. There must be some sort of unspoken understanding about how nicely she slots in with some of the other big boys at Nintendo, validated even further by her inspired moveset in Smash Remix.

I really like the idea of a more "condensed" grappler character, on the short side but has a ton of raw power and muscle behind them. Had Wario been added earlier I feel like he'd have leaned into that a lot, but as is we don't have so much of it. I can't even tell you who the hell owns this character anymore though, so unless we ever see some sort of revival or rerelease this is the most lost of lost causes.
 
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Gengar84

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Honestly the more I've resonated on it, and after some good points posed earlier in the thread, I feel like Killer Instinct is a good choice for a secondary Rare "rep" - even though that circumstance is pretty unlikely. I had forgotten just how prominently it used to get showcased alongside those big, longstanding Nintendo IPs. I suppose at one point this was Nintendo's signature fighting game series, predating Smash and it still stands as one of the only traditional fighting game IPs they've had to their name. I guess it probably counts for something that it was treated as sort of the lead-in / main attraction for the recent NSO reveal too. I certainly think Fulgore holds a bit more weight than the likes of Conker, not sure how he stacks up with Battletoads.

Maybe we could see Fulgore show up as an Assist Trophy next game? I imagine that for fans of the series it'd be exciting to see him here at all. Perhaps they could even build a Mii Costume off the existing model after a little while, as they've done with a few other characters.



This is a really fun animation, but yeah I feel like if Chief made it in he probably wouldn't go on such a massacre. Then again, that wouldn't be so different than Mega Man immediately throwing hands. I just imagine Master Chief's reveal being one that poses is a bit more like a friendly sparring with a respected opponent like Samus. But maybe it'd go something like this if they want to make a big show of the crossover appeal.



I'm very happy seeing Marina's name pop up this much, she's one of my big pipe dream picks too. My words aren't really properly coming together on it right now, but she just fits the essence of Smash incredibly well. I adore Treasure games and their designs are so much fun to boot, you look at Marina and you can already garner how unique she'd be. There must be some sort of unspoken understanding about how nicely she slots in with some of the other big boys at Nintendo, validated even further by her inspired moveset in Smash Remix.

I really like the idea of a more "condensed" grappler character, on the short side but has a ton of raw power and muscle behind them. Had Wario been added earlier I feel like he'd have leaned into that a lot, but as is we don't have so much of it. I can't even tell you who the hell owns this character anymore though, so unless we ever see some sort of revival or rerelease this is the most lost of lost causes.
As someone who has the Battletoads as their most wanted, I feel that Fulgore actually makes more sense as the second RARE rep over them. Unlike Battletoads, Killer Instinct was actually partially owned by Nintendo themselves. I think the Killer Instinct 2013 was a lot more hyped than the Battletoads 2020 game too. The latest direct seemed to primarily focus on Killer Instinct as their main attraction for the RARE announcement even though Battlemaniacs was also included. Finally, Battletoads was multiplatform before RARE was partially acquired by Nintendo but KI was exclusive to Nintendo consoles (and arcades) before being bought by Microsoft. My dream would be to get both of them but I feel like that’s a bit unrealistic and greedy on my end.

As far as other Microsoft characters like Master Chief go, I think it depends on whether Nintendo would rather use the spot to celebrate their own history or gaming as a whole. I think both are valid positions. There’s nothing saying we can’t get both either like we did with Banjo and Steve in Ultimate.
 
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Shinuto

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Honestly the more I've resonated on it, and after some good points posed earlier in the thread, I feel like Killer Instinct is a good choice for a secondary Rare "rep" - even though that circumstance is pretty unlikely. I had forgotten just how prominently it used to get showcased alongside those big, longstanding Nintendo IPs. I suppose at one point this was Nintendo's signature fighting game series, predating Smash and it still stands as one of the only traditional fighting game IPs they've had to their name. I guess it probably counts for something that it was treated as sort of the lead-in / main attraction for the recent NSO reveal too. I certainly think Fulgore holds a bit more weight than the likes of Conker, not sure how he stacks up with Battletoads.

Maybe we could see Fulgore show up as an Assist Trophy next game? I imagine that for fans of the series it'd be exciting to see him here at all. Perhaps they could even build a Mii Costume off the existing model after a little while, as they've done with a few other characters.



This is a really fun animation, but yeah I feel like if Chief made it in he probably wouldn't go on such a massacre. Then again, that wouldn't be so different than Mega Man immediately throwing hands. I just imagine Master Chief's reveal being one that poses is a bit more like a friendly sparring with a respected opponent like Samus. But maybe it'd go something like this if they want to make a big show of the crossover appeal.



I'm very happy seeing Marina's name pop up this much, she's one of my big pipe dream picks too. My words aren't really properly coming together on it right now, but she just fits the essence of Smash incredibly well. I adore Treasure games and their designs are so much fun to boot, you look at Marina and you can already garner how unique she'd be. There must be some sort of unspoken understanding about how nicely she slots in with some of the other big boys at Nintendo, validated even further by her inspired moveset in Smash Remix.

I really like the idea of a more "condensed" grappler character, on the short side but has a ton of raw power and muscle behind them. Had Wario been added earlier I feel like he'd have leaned into that a lot, but as is we don't have so much of it. I can't even tell you who the hell owns this character anymore though, so unless we ever see some sort of revival or rerelease this is the most lost of lost causes.
Marina deserves better for what she has currently
 

Gengar84

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I’m probably just giving myself false hope but I actually feel a lot better about the chances of seeing another RARE character after the recent Direct. I think it did a lot to show that they still care about that part of their history. It would have been cool to get some other RARE Mii outfits and Spirits along with Banjo. That might have helped to drive more interest in seeing them get a second character. Maybe finally getting these games on the online service can help get younger fans acquainted with these games so there might still be hope there.

If we did somehow manage to get a second character, here’s how I feel in terms of likelihood (probably influenced a bit by personal bias):

Killer Instinct > Battletoads > Perfect Dark > Conker
 
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timrtabor1234

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I thought we clarified most people don't know how to make a Smash Bros. roster, especially those who think they know how the characters are chosen.
On that note feels like folks really underestimate the importance of characters with a solid distinct game play hook. Like even the most basic non-semi clone newcomers in Ultimate Ridley and K.Rool have some more mechanically complex stuff going on compared to 64 and Melee's characters with the instakill attack and blunderbus respectively.
 

Louie G.

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I’m probably just giving myself false hope but I actually feel a lot better about the chances of seeing another RARE character after the recent Direct. I think it did a lot to show that they still care about that part of their history. It would have been cool to get some other RARE Mii outfits and Spirits along with Banjo. That might have helped to drive more interest in seeing them get a second character.
I do think it's a bit more of an uphill climb for another character to make it without sheer Banjo levels of support, putting it lightly, but with how openly Microsoft has been supportive of bringing Rare back to Nintendo I wonder if they would suggest it themselves. Like hey, we'll give you Banjo back and you can do whatever the hell you want with these guys. I can see that happening to varying results - maybe one ends up an AT, a few costumes, we get a bunch of scattered Rare spirits, etc.

As far as a playable character goes, never say never I suppose. I do think with the wealth of options available from Microsoft the likes of Killer Instinct and co. might not be the highest priority, but I would gladly welcome a repeat of last game like you mentioned earlier. One character gets in through their rich history with Nintendo, the other gets in as a massive gaming icon in their own right. There are more than enough great characters to choose from.
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

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325
I always thought the eventual second Rare character would be Joanna. Perfect Dark is a cult classic and it already sorta had content in Smash through the Motion Sensor Bomb.
A Killer Instinct character probably makes more sense, though. Personally I support Spinal, this roster is severely lacking in both skeletons and pirates and he puts a patch on both.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record though, the next Rare character should really be... Dixie Kong. She's their biggest character not in yet.
 
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