Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Shinuto]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

 

[CannonStreak]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

I would like to see something like that, actually.

 

[ScrubReborn]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

Yeah. Hell, let's go crazier. Air grabs. Why not.

 

[Noipoi]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

If they can make it work it'd open up a whole lot of opportunities for cool stuff.

I wonder if they'd be all new Smash attacks or just the normal Smash attacks but...in the air

 

[Perkilator]

If they can make it work it'd open up a whole lot of opportunities for cool stuff.

I wonder if they'd be all new Smash attacks or just the normal Smash attacks but...in the air

I think if aerial Smash attacks were a thing, whether or not they’d be new attacks would probably depend on the character.

 

[Garteam]

Ridley maybe but Mewtwo? Part of his Smash identity is being frail, IDK how they could explain tough body for him.

Giving tough body to characters like Ridley and Mewtwo actually plays well into their identities as glass cannons, IMO. Mewtwo and Ridley have a good advantage stage and some decent tools for neutral, but being a frail, big-body is such a disadvantage that their offense feels too outweighed. Making the player work slightly harder before they can exploit Mewtwo and Ridley's horrible disadvantage would force players to respect their options more and would open up new offense options for Mewtwo and Ridley that would make them feel even more powerful while still being fundamentally bad defensively.

In terms of in-universe explanations, that's easy. Ridley is a major boss in his home series and a massive space dragon that could take an absurd amount of punishment. Mewtwo is built to be large and sturdy by design because he's genetically bred to overpower other Pokemon. Mewtwo still has 90 defense in game, which isn't bad. Plus, if you want to lean into Mewtwo's size in his Smash design, you may as well go all the way with it and give him something that plays into the fact that Mewtwo's larger than you might expect.

 

[Gorgonzales]

If they can make it work it'd open up a whole lot of opportunities for cool stuff.

I wonder if they'd be all new Smash attacks or just the normal Smash attacks but...in the air

Most likely new attacks, a lot of the grounded Smashes can't be translated into the air anyway.

I'm all for aerial Smashes. I think it'd be cool if Mario's standard Fair was the forward kick from SM64 while his current Fair is repurposed into the strong version.

 

[Garteam]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

This is an unpopular opinion, but I'd rather they didn't. Either they go all the way with it and give each character at least 4 attacks with brand new animations or they take the Robin route and just put new effects on the old animations. The former would take an absurd amount of development time and the latter would feel a little cheap and likely gratuitous for some characters (what would you do for Snake in this situation?).

I think it would also hurt Smash's accessibility. Newbies already have trouble with air combat unless they have a ton of jumps to play with. Introducing another element is just going to add another consideration they need to have in mind to play well.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The former would take an absurd amount of development time

In a situation where they keep everyone, maybe. It's just four animations like you said, and even then they could just reduce it to three by just having one side smash, rather than forwards and backwards ones.

Likewise they wouldn't have to be making every single one of those animations from scratch anyway. If you want your character to move in a certain way and you already have an animation made that looks even 50% similar to the one you want, you don't make a new animation from scratch, you tweak the pre-existing animation. That's why Ganondorf has gone from being purely Falcondorf to Falcon-Ike-Cloud-dorf, because they already had animations for a big guy swinging a big sword the way they wanted Ganondorf to.

 

[Idon]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

I once considered in a novel idea until I saw Steve do it and now I am quite happy that for 99% of the cast, it is quite restricted.

 

[ninjahmos]

Ignore this post

 

[Will]

OK guys, quick question…

How would you feel if Nintendo got FromSoftware to make a Metroid game with them?

This sounds like a Social thread question.

Id rather them do a Zelda or Fire Emblem game tbh

 

[Wunderwaft]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

Yes
Go all the way and give unique animations for all four attacks.

 

[Shinuto]

Yes
Go all the way and give unique animations for all four attacks.

Idea: Sonic's down air smash is a run in place with his feet kicking the opponent multiple times

 

[Wunderwaft]

Idea: Sonic's down air smash is a run in place with his feet kicking the opponent multiple times

Ahh...the good ol' Yoshi dair
Love it, would make Sonic even more obnoxious.

 

[Shinuto]

God imagine if Smash still had momentum in jumps and you charged an aerial smash to your opponent off stage to chase them.

 

[Will]

I’ve always wanted to charge Mario’s F-Air for a more satisfying dunk

 

[Zerp]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

Ngl I'd probably hate that unless it's restricted to a few characters actually designed around it. Rivals of Aether has a character with aerial strongs (as well as various workshop characters) and even with the weakness of lacking grounded smashes it's a super strong option. You have to remember that most characters lack the tools to actually contest something like that off-stage in the first place. Giving players access to both at the same time sounds completely insane, I wouldn't trust the game to be remotely balanced if it's a castwide thing. If people want that they better not complain about dying off 30% to a dash attack from someone with ladder combos like Meta Knight. A string that's normally not lethal can become lethal pretty easily if we give someone aerial smashes as a finisher. Or complain about getting gimped 24/7 against the high air mobility characters, because again they can now just toss out smashes off-stage.

 

[Idon]

God imagine if Smash still had momentum in jumps and you charged an aerial smash to your opponent off stage to chase them.

Yall need to hop on Rivals 2

 

[Ivander]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

Robin kinda does that. If you have your Bronze sword out and you tilt before your aerial attack, you'll keep your Bronze Sword, but if you press the Air attack at the same time you tilt, you use the Levin Sword instead.
That aside, probably not. If anything, I'd like to see some characters have access to a Shield Special similar to Inkling and Steve. It'd probably be alot less of a hassle on characters.

OK guys, quick question…

How would you feel if Nintendo got FromSoftware to make a Metroid game with them?

Man, that would be Lore Heaven for the Metroid fans. But otherwise, no. If FromSoftware were to collab with Nintendo, I would either want Zelda or a new original IP. Fire Emblem would be rather interesting, as Fire Emblem has delved into games with action gameplay with the Warriors spin-off games, but considering how Fire Emblem is mostly about your soldiers fighting together and interacting with each other, I don't think a Souls-like game would be a good fit for Fire Emblem.
I guess that's part of why I think an original IP would work better for a Nintendo X FromSoft collab. There are a couple Nintendo series that have a setting that could work for a Souls-like game, like Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, Sin & Punishment and Xenoblade, but when looking at their gameplay history, having a new game with Souls-gameplay would probably be a very hit-or-miss thing in regards to fans and newcomers.
The only franchise that could work with the Souls-setting without the gameplay being a far departure would be Zelda. But then the big question comes up is that if making a game for Nintendo, would it be better for FromSoftware to do a Zelda game or a new IP for Nintendo? One could argue that Zelda doesn't really need a Souls-like game and making a new IP would probably be great for Nintendo for publicity and variety and how FromSoft has a great history with original IPs like Bloodborne, Sekiro and Elden Ring. Whereas another could argue that Zelda could do a Souls-like that keeps both elements of Souls-likes and Zelda games without being alienating for fans of either.

I certainly wouldn't mind a FromSoft Zelda myself, but I do sort of want to see what Nintendo and FromSoft could cook with a new IP.

 

[Will]

Yall need to hop on Rivals 2
View attachment 395829

That ain’t Falco!

 

[MBRedboy31]

Both NASB games have 3 ”strong” aerial attacks for each character and Slap City has one for each character, and it seems to work perfectly fine in those games.

 

[cashregister9]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

Honestly, I like how NASB implemented them, I wouldn't mind that for smash

That ain’t Falco!

You're right

It's him

 

[fogbadge]

If B&K come back I hope they get a Tooie stage. my pick would be Jinjo Village. yeah I know it's yet another early game area but I love those vibrantly coloured houses

 

[Garteam]

In a situation where they keep everyone, maybe. It's just four animations like you said, and even then they could just reduce it to three by just having one side smash, rather than forwards and backwards ones.

Likewise they wouldn't have to be making every single one of those animations from scratch anyway. If you want your character to move in a certain way and you already have an animation made that looks even 50% similar to the one you want, you don't make a new animation from scratch, you tweak the pre-existing animation. That's why Ganondorf has gone from being purely Falcondorf to Falcon-Ike-Cloud-dorf, because they already had animations for a big guy swinging a big sword the way they wanted Ganondorf to.

Even in a 50 character roster where there are only 3 attacks each, that's still 150 animations that need to be created. You're still looking at multiple characters' worth of work. There is no roster that can realistically compete with Ultimate and still have this mechanic. You would need a roster smaller than Smash for Wii U and 3DS' launch roster to make this work and, even then, it would still likely be the most labour-intensive addition to Smash's movesets ever.

Tweaking pre-existing animations to save time would not work because attacks need to be clearly distinguishable from a distance. There's a reason that even characters who have conceptually similar tilts and smash attacks have dramatically different body movements when executing their moves (e.g. the Belmonts and Steve really leaning into their swings for f-smash). The only real way around that is to do what Robin does and have clearly and obvious different effects for the aerial smashes. Some characters lend themselves very naturally to this (Mario, Captain Falcon, etc.), others don't (Inkling, Snake, Joker, etc.)

EDIT: I realized I misunderstood your second point. Characters use others as bases all the time, but animating is still an incredibly time-intensive process. There are also a lot of characters that this method wouldn't work for. Who is R.O.B or Steve going to use as a base?

 

[Shinuto]

If B&K come back I hope they get a Tooie stage. my pick would be Jinjo Village. yeah I know it's yet another early game area but I love those vibrantly coloured houses

No screw that witchy world or halfire peaks. Jinjo village is boring...unless the death ray fires off in the background.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

Could be interesting, but at that point imo they should bite the bullet and give a dedicated button to smash attacks. Smashing the stick in a direction while you're already tilting it to influence your character's aerial drift just isn't precise enough for what would be such a major mechanic.

 

[fogbadge]

No screw that witchy world or halfire peaks. Jinjo village is boring...unless the death ray fires off in the background.

nope. Vibrant bright colours

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

If B&K come back I hope they get a Tooie stage. my pick would be Jinjo Village. yeah I know it's yet another early game area but I love those vibrantly coloured houses

I do want another new Banjo stage, but I also kinda hope they do a sort of continuity thing now that Tooie is on NSO and bring Spiral Mountain back, but make it the more messed up destroyed one from Tooie lol

I don't think they will, but I think it'd be kinda funny.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

No screw that witchy world or halfire peaks. Jinjo village is boring...unless the death ray fires off in the background.

Yeah Hailfire Peaks would be amazing.
I still think Click Clock Wood would be the best choice for a second Banjo stage overall, but from Tooie I vote for Hailfire Peaks

 

[Laniv]

If B&K come back I hope they get a Tooie stage. my pick would be Jinjo Village. yeah I know it's yet another early game area but I love those vibrantly coloured houses

I think the Jinjo should watch the battle and cheer or jeer if someone gets KO'd. Their favorites are chosen at random

 

[ScrubReborn]

God imagine if Smash still had momentum in jumps and you charged an aerial smash to your opponent off stage to chase them.

To this day the loss of momentum transfer in jumps remains as probably the worst mechanic removal in the series.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What do you guys think about Tough Guy/Tough Body?

Like many others have said, it's perfectly fine on Bowser but really unneeded on Kazuya.

I think there's something really fun when Tough Guy triggers with Bowser but there's also the fact that it helps make up for the fact that his frame data is slow as molasses, which combined with some added layer of armor of some kind (which usually caps at a certain amount of damage) means he's overall less screwed and can actually not worry about the mere action of doing any attack but Up B. Tough Guy is healthy on him.

Kazuya feels like a ****post or badly designed mod since the devs literally gave him every gimmick under the sun.

And while Tough Body is one of the things he got, it's also like, the least of his issues since it's basically Bowser's Tough Guy but objectively worse in every way. It really doesn't add much to Kazuya since his attacks are so generous in size, range and intangibility that he's a better swordfighter than actual swordfighters so I don't really mind it being there but it's really the principle of "why the **** does he even have it?"

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

Like other people said, I would want this to be on a case-by-case basis. Some people would be way too ridiculous with aerial smash attacks, which we've technically seen with Steve.

If aerial smash attacks become a universal thing, expect the aerial play in the game to be significantly watered down to prevent having an entire game with 0-to-death ladder combos into aerial up smash.

But if we get a character whose entire gimmick is having air smashes, and they're designed around it so it's not toxic as hell, I'm in.

In other words, put Wrastor in Smash

 

[Kirbeh]

I feel like meteor smashes and other strong aerials like Knee already serve the purpose that aerial smash attacks would.

Even if they finally gave Smash attacks their own button and added a set of strong aerials for every character, I still don't like the idea of them being chargeable attacks like their grounded equivalent.

The only way it'd be acceptable (to me) is if they're basically just jumping heavy attacks like in traditional fighters.

I'm open to a character being built and balanced around the idea, like Wrastor in Rivals, but otherwise I can't say I'm fond of the concept.

As for the Tough mechanic, I think it's fine on Bowser but could use a bit more fine tuning. I'd probably be fine with a select few also getting it, like Dedede, but I think it needs to be removed from Kazuya.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Yall need to hop on Rivals 2
View attachment 395829

Unironically this. I've been playing Rivals 2 for the past weeks since it released and it's a ridiculously fun platform fighter that gets basically all of the mechanics right. It just feels good to move around in, unlike in Ultimate where it feels like you're wading through sludge when trying to get off a platform.

It really does feel like an evolution of platform fighters with the way everyone's movesets have mechanical depth and how moves synergize with one another in unique ways.

I'd love to see Rivals content in Smash. Not a character though, since there's already enough overlap between both games being platform fighters that there wouldn't really be a transformative element to seeing a character from Rivals being playable in Smash. Something else, like maybe a Forsburn assist trophy that spreads smoke everywhere and allows the summoner to hide in it, only becoming visible when attacking/shielding.

Including guest content from a platform fighter would be a cool full-circle moment for the series.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'd love to see Rivals content in Smash. Not a character though, since there's already enough overlap between both games being platform fighters that there wouldn't really be a transformative element to seeing a character from Rivals being playable in Smash. Something else, like maybe a Forsburn assist trophy that spreads smoke everywhere and allows the summoner to hide in it, only becoming visible when attacking/shielding.

I disagree.

They really don't need to be transformative when the movesets themselves are already standing strong on their own. Just make sure they get to keep the actual wavedashes (which WILL happen in this specific case because guests have to be Done Right) but otherwise, they could translate pretty well without needing to be given some sort of mechanic they don't already have on their own.

 

[MBRedboy31]

A Rivals character in Smash would be transformative also simply because of the fact that you can use them in casual items play.

Have you ever seen a Rivals character pick up a Ray Gun, or put on a Bunny Hood, or break open a Metal Box, or use a Final Smash?

 

[Gorgonzales]

I disagree.

They really don't need to be transformative when the movesets themselves are already standing strong on their own. Just make sure they get to keep the actual wavedashes (which WILL happen in this specific case because guests have to be Done Right) but otherwise, they could translate pretty well without needing to be given some sort of mechanic they don't already have on their own.

The movesets do stand strong on their own but I brought up the transformative element because... well, if I want to play a Rivals character, I'm just gonna go play Rivals lol. Every other character on the roster is plucked from a different genre and it's cool to see how their skill set and game style is translated over to one unified genre. Rivals is the same genre as Smash so there isn't much to add other than a Final Smash (in which I'm confident they'd just go the lame-o route like Min Min and have the Rivals™ be summoned for it in a cinematic since all Final Smashes are creatively bankrupt now).

Not that it wouldn't be cool to play as one of them in Smash, but at that point I feel like it'd be less of "I'm glad this character has access to all of these extra movement techniques" and more "for the love of all that is holy, why doesn't the whole cast have access to these options??"

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

A Rivals character in Smash would be transformative also simply because of the fact that you can use them in casual items play.

Have you ever seen a Rivals character pick up a Ray Gun, or put on a Bunny Hood, or break open a Metal Box, or use a Final Smash?

You can say that for literally anyone though so it doesn't really count...

The movesets do stand strong on their own but I brought up the transformative element because... well, if I want to play a Rivals character, I'm just gonna go play Rivals lol. Every other character on the roster is plucked from a different genre and it's cool to see how their skill set and game style is translated over to one unified genre. Rivals is the same genre as Smash so there isn't much to add other than a Final Smash (in which I'm confident they'd just go the lame-o route like Min Min and have the Rivals™ be summoned for it in a cinematic since all Final Smashes are creatively bankrupt now).

Not every fighter needs to be given the bottle of Smash Milk to become a cooler version of themselves when acting as a guest for Smash, personally.

I think it would be cool to see a Rivals character even if solely because it would basically mean Nintendo is admitting another platform fighter is notable enough to stand alongside Smash.

Not that it wouldn't be cool to play as one of them in Smash, but at that point I feel like it'd be less of "I'm glad this character has access to all of these extra movement techniques" and more "for the love of all that is holy, why doesn't the whole cast have access to these options??"

And honestly I would welcome people realizing Smash is sauceless.

 

[Opossum]

Not every fighter needs to be given the bottle of Smash Milk to become a cooler version of themselves when acting as a guest for Smash, personally.

Hell, in the case of a lot of Rivals characters, you could directly port them from their home game and they'd STILL be some of the most mechanically unique fighters in the game. Like, imagine if Smash added Maypul, who has so many unique mechanics that it's hard to list them all.

But the biggest thing they should take from Rivals is the fact that there isn't a single Smash character with an alt as perfect as Chef Loxodont. This is the peak of alternate costumes.