Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

Prince Ryoma will wait patiently for his revenge, but only for 25 turns. After that, he will begin his assault.

Still earlier than Sylux.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Penn: He flies around throwing newspapers at everyone, he will also swipe at fighters with his large wings and bite with his beak.

Took me a minute to remember who Penn was, and all I could picture was, like... this:

In terms of assist trophies I'd want, probably mumbo (would transform people), a creeper (explodes, obviously), rouxls kaard (creates stupidly easy puzzles, and completing them buffs you - imagine warioware but very mundane), and the securitrons from fallout new vegas (shoots you, but has a low chance to spawn yes-man instead, who just cheers you on).

Also make the moon look like the N64 version (not low-poly, but scared rather than angry).

 

[HyperSomari64]

Hey let's think up new Assist Trophy ideas!

• Neptune (Hyper-Dimension Neptunia
• Asuka (Senran Kagura)
• Itsuki Aoi and Mirage Chrom (Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE)
• Kuma (Tekken)
• Tetrominos (Tetris)

 

[Ivander]

Still earlier than Sylux.

I mean, at least Sylux got to begin his assault. Ryoma....well, at least he got to do some sudoku?

 

[SPEN18]

I mean, at least Sylux got to begin his assault.

Don't speak too soon. Now that you said that, watch MP4 go and get delayed again... /j

 

[Ivander]

Don't speak too soon. Now that you said that, watch MP4 go and get delayed again... /j

I mean, I already posted that potential inevitability around when it was first announced.

3 Years Ago on the June Nintendo Direct:
Metroid Dread was revealed in the middle while Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom was shown at the end.
Metroid Dread was never announced beforehand while Tears of the Kingdom was announced before, but showed gameplay for the first time.
Metroid Dread is released the year it was announced while Tears of the Kingdom was planned for next year, but got delayed to the following year.

3 Years Later on the June Nintendo Direct:
Legend of Zelda Echoes of Wisdom is revealed in the middle while Metroid Prime 4 Beyond is shown at the end.
Echoes of Wisdom was never announced beforehand while Metroid Prime 4 was announced before, but showed gameplay for the first time.
Echoes of Wisdom is releasing the same year it is announced while Metroid Prime 4 Beyond is planned for next year.

Is history going to repeat itself?

 

[Deleted member]

If Undertale gets a playable character next game, do you see this character as a base game or DLC?
I think Undertale could be a great pass opener like Joker was.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Undertale gets a playable character next game, do you see this character as a base game or DLC?
I think Undertale could be a great pass opener like Joker was.

The base game guest has traditionally been from long-standing, iconic IPs with some association with Nintendo.

Undertale is not that. Not saying it can't be base game but the current precedence goes against it.

 

[ninjahmos]

Hey let's think up new Assist Trophy ideas!

Hyakutaro Ichimonji: This POW can shoot homing fireballs from his hands toward the user's opponents multiple times. Before he leaves, he'll say "Thank you!" while dropping an item and salute you.

Metal Gear Mk. II: The design could be a mix between the one from Snatcher and the one from Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots. This smaller version of Metal Gear can roll around on wheels and stun the user's opponents.

Jehuty: This mecha, or Frame, has a variety of advanced weaponry, both melee and ranged. It can move around, hover and fly pretty fast, and it can hack and slash the user's opponent or shoot them. Whoever is the pilot, or Runner, of the Jehuty in this case is unknown.

 

[Idon]

Thinking about Pokken again (unhealthy, I know), and there's this one really minor mechanic I really liked.
Where most fighting games have a crouching stance while holding down when grounded, Pokken also has an "up" or "high" stance when holding up since it uses a jump button ala Smash.

The interesting thing is that beyond just aesthetically showing that up is being held, they also provided some minor passive benefits since crouching already made you a harder target to hit. They range from charging characters' meters to providing passive super armor to certain types of moves.

Since Smash follows the same principle (assuming of course you're playing with tap jump off), I was thinking about some passive stances you could implement to the existing Smash fighters.

For example shield fighters could have it so that holding up has that projectile blocking thing they get when they're standing/walking.

Characters that canonically hover can float off the ground menacingly to not get their toes clipped by low attacks.

You could even make go more in-depth with other characters like Cloud accessing his new Punisher Mode from FF7R to get some different normal attacks than usual.


Any ideas for other characters' high stances? It's not exactly a major addition, but it'd be neat to see.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Thinking about Pokken again (unhealthy, I know), and there's this one really minor mechanic I really liked.
Where most fighting games have a crouching stance while holding down when grounded, Pokken also has an "up" or "high" stance when holding up since it uses a jump button ala Smash.

The interesting thing is that beyond just aesthetically showing that up is being held, they also provided some minor passive benefits since crouching already made you a harder target to hit. They range from charging characters' meters to providing passive super armor to certain types of moves.

Since Smash follows the same principle (assuming of course you're playing with tap jump off), I was thinking about some passive stances you could implement to the existing Smash fighters.

For example shield fighters could have it so that holding up has that projectile blocking thing they get when they're standing/walking.
View attachment 395852
Characters that canonically hover can float off the ground menacingly to not get their toes clipped by low attacks.

You could even make go more in-depth with other characters like Cloud accessing his new Punisher Mode from FF7R to get some different normal attacks than usual.
View attachment 395853

Any ideas for other characters' high stances? It's not exactly a major addition, but it'd be neat to see.

I think this idea could be a good new home for specials that charge meter like Cloud's limit break. Maybe Lucario could purposely damage himself to build aura?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hey let's think up new Assist Trophy ideas!

Eggplant Wizard: Nothing too complicated. Shows up, casts spells to turn people into Eggplants.
Protoman: Just like he is in the games. Whistle blows. He teleports in. Jumps around shooting for a bit, then teleports out.
Majima: MAJIMA EVERYWHERE SYSTEM!
Pyramid Head: Moves slowly. Sword swing deals enormous damage and knockback.
Cactuar: Sprints around the stage. Always tries to dodge attacks. Does it's 1000 Needles attack, which deals exactly 100.0% damage.
Tonberry: Moves slowly. If he stabs you with his knife, it Instant KOs if your damage is over 100%.
Slimes: Slimes start dropping into the stages and moving towards each other. Easy to KO, but if too many of them come together, they merge into a King Slime which is very tough and deals a lot of damage.
Abobo: A brick wall appears in the background that he smashes through, walks around trying to throw and boot characters.
Vic Viper: Flies around the stage shooting with multiple Options.
Sophia 3rd: Acts like the old Land Master FS, except it can drive up walls.

Rygar, Mike Jones, Bernard Bernoulli, Kuros: No specific ideas for these guys. I just want 'em as AT.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Hey let's think up new Assist Trophy ideas!

Big the Cat: He sits down on stage and starts casting his lure out, think a much longer range Isabelle Side Special. If he catches a fighter he'll reel em in and throw em away. thrown fighters deal damage to other fighters they fly into. Occasionally Big will catch an actual fish, he will hold it above his head, these fish can be eaten by players to restore a bit of health.

Fi: Fi dances across the stage doing kicks and transforming into a sword to swipe at fighters. she can be attacked and defeated in fights.

Chaos: Chaos will throw out his long stretching arm to attack fighters, spinning around, turning into a large ball of water that bounces players off its surface and can transform into a puddle to trap players while moving around as well. On rare occasions he will transform into Perfect Chaos and perform massive stage covering tidal waves and energy beams and tornados doing widespread absurd damage, this can be stopped if a point on his head is damaged enough.

Penn: He flies around throwing newspapers at everyone, he will also swipe at fighters with his large wings and bite with his beak.

Lanky Kong: He can inflate himself like a balloon and act as a platform for fighters. Attacking him in this state will end his inflation early, Lanky will also stretch out his arms to attack fighters and move around to shoot at fighters with his grape blowgun. If he KOs a fighter he will do a little dance.

Magda: flowers will sprout around her, if any fighters step in these flowers or attack them she will violently attack the fighter(s) with frightening speed, she can very easily KO most fighters.

Heartless: Heartless will spawn all over the stage, attacking anyone that comes near them, the heartless that spawn are Shadows, Darkballs, Large Bodies, Green Requiems, Hot Rods, Parasol Beauties and Invisibles. Shadows Darkballs and Invisibles can become untouchable for brief periods of time, Large Bodies are invulnerable from the front, Hot Rods travel over the stage very quickly and deal high knockback, Green Requiems can heal fighters nearby and Heartless, Parasol Beauties can fire energy beams from their parasols and can float in the air, and Invisibles can curse fighters with a ark shadowy ring surrounding them that ignore shields and must be jumped or dodge rolled through with good timing.

Behemoth: seperate from the Heartless spawn is the Behemoth Heartless, it can slam down into the stage with a big jump, rain down dark orbs it casts from its horn, cast thundaga spellls all over and can be riden/stood atop of and attacked by fighters. It is a very large AT on par with Rathalos.

Tiki Tong (Donkey Kong): His head serves as a solid "block" platform while his outstretched giant hands are soft platforms. The head and hands move in unison in a "battlefield" platform formation, with Tiki Tong's head being in the center. The jewels on his hands will periodically flash (either independently or simultaneously), indicating that he's going to slam that hand on the ground below (typically doing this only when his summoner isn't in the way).

Linebeck (The Legend of Zelda): Scours the stage for a treasure. He can be damaged and K.O.'d, so his summoner must protect him until he reaches his destination, at which point he'll unearth a treasure chest containing a valuable item for his summoner.

Team Rocket (Pokemon): Being the first-ever Pokemon Assist Trophy, Jessie and James are called to the scene in their Team Rocket balloon, which lingers in the background as the duo toss whatever they can find at the fighters. These include various items from the Pokemon series like berries (which can actually heal you if picked up after they land) and TMs, but most notably Pokeballs. If a Pokeball hits a fighter, they'll be trapped inside and can break free by mashing, but they can also be picked up like an item and thrown. Trapped fighters break free mid-throw and will not be able to attack their "trainer" that summoned them for a brief period of time, indicated by a red mist surrounding them.

Louie (Pikmin): Causes all sorts of trouble. Lunges at fighters in a command grab and squeezes two to five food items out of them, which he tries to gobble up as soon as possible. Will also sometimes whistle to make a Volatile Dweevil carrying a Bomb Rock drop from the sky, which explodes after a brief moment.

Chell (Portal): Uses her Portal gun to create one orange and one blue portal on the stage's floor, ceiling, or walls. She then watches the fight from the background. Fighters and projectiles can enter one portal and emerge from the other side. After enough time has passed, she will fire her Portal Gun once more to change the layout of the portals before disappearing. This last set of portals lasts for three uses.

Sandbert (Rivals of Aether): Sandbert can be considered the "Poison Mushroom" variant of Sandbag since he disguises himself as that item, with subtle eyebrows and a mouth being the only clues to his true nature. If attacked, he goes ballistic on his assailant, stringing together inhumanly fast combos of body flailing attacks and erratically flying around while on fire.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Hey let's think up new Assist Trophy ideas!

Big the Cat: He sits down on stage and starts casting his lure out, think a much longer range Isabelle Side Special. If he catches a fighter he'll reel em in and throw em away. thrown fighters deal damage to other fighters they fly into. Occasionally Big will catch an actual fish, he will hold it above his head, these fish can be eaten by players to restore a bit of health.

Fi: Fi dances across the stage doing kicks and transforming into a sword to swipe at fighters. she can be attacked and defeated in fights.

Chaos: Chaos will throw out his long stretching arm to attack fighters, spinning around, turning into a large ball of water that bounces players off its surface and can transform into a puddle to trap players while moving around as well. On rare occasions he will transform into Perfect Chaos and perform massive stage covering tidal waves and energy beams and tornados doing widespread absurd damage, this can be stopped if a point on his head is damaged enough.

Penn: He flies around throwing newspapers at everyone, he will also swipe at fighters with his large wings and bite with his beak.

Lanky Kong: He can inflate himself like a balloon and act as a platform for fighters. Attacking him in this state will end his inflation early, Lanky will also stretch out his arms to attack fighters and move around to shoot at fighters with his grape blowgun. If he KOs a fighter he will do a little dance.

Magda: flowers will sprout around her, if any fighters step in these flowers or attack them she will violently attack the fighter(s) with frightening speed, she can very easily KO most fighters.

Heartless: Heartless will spawn all over the stage, attacking anyone that comes near them, the heartless that spawn are Shadows, Darkballs, Large Bodies, Green Requiems, Hot Rods, Parasol Beauties and Invisibles. Shadows Darkballs and Invisibles can become untouchable for brief periods of time, Large Bodies are invulnerable from the front, Hot Rods travel over the stage very quickly and deal high knockback, Green Requiems can heal fighters nearby and Heartless, Parasol Beauties can fire energy beams from their parasols and can float in the air, and Invisibles can curse fighters with a ark shadowy ring surrounding them that ignore shields and must be jumped or dodge rolled through with good timing.

Behemoth: seperate from the Heartless spawn is the Behemoth Heartless, it can slam down into the stage with a big jump, rain down dark orbs it casts from its horn, cast thundaga spellls all over and can be riden/stood atop of and attacked by fighters. It is a very large AT on par with Rathalos.

Emio: Walks around the stage slowly and if he gets close to another fighter, he'll catch them puts on the mask for them and they instantly dies.

 

[Ivander]

Emio: Walks around the stage slowly and if he gets close to another fighter, he'll catch them puts on the mask for them and they instantly dies.

I immediately thought of Mimikyu and how it worked in Smash Ultimate and now I'm just imagining Emio and Mimikyu having been summoned to the field together, surrounding a fighter with Mimikyu with it's shadow hand popping out on one side, Emio on the other side holding a paper bag, and then the following screen is just Emio giving a adoring hug to Mimikyu with the fighter they surrounded lying down in the background with most of their body out of sight.

Like I said, don't know anything about Emio since I haven't played their game yet. Just that Mimikyu came to mind reading this and then the Smash Bros. imagination station kicked in.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I imagine a Chocobo assist trophy that works like FF7, where on rare occasions its a fat chocobo that just slams into the ground and leaves.

Emio: Walks around the stage slowly and if he gets close to another fighter, he'll catch them puts on the mask for them and they instantly dies.

I mentioned this in an earlier post but i feel like there should be some chance of escape here. Maybe if you press the taunt button or something, dont know how this would work in practice.

Because in the actual story of Famicom detective club he tries to make people laugh and if they laugh he leaves them alone but if they dont he kills them.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

For those of you keeping up with it, DKC2 got added to the music app a bit ago.

Haven't seen anything yet if they're gonna announce when the next update will be, but we're not on a set day whenever it does happen since Mario Wonder was Thursday night lol

Does seem to be consistently at about 10:30pm EST though since news articles about it are from 3 hours ago, and Mario Wonder was also around that time I believe.

 

[fogbadge]

Louie (Pikmin): Causes all sorts of trouble.

his character in a nutshell

 

[Oracle Link]

I just started echoes of wisdom so here are alt concepts for link and Zelda!

Spoiler: Link Links Awekning/ Echoes of widom

Costume 1: Links Awekning comes without the hood and his old equipment!
Green, Red, Blue and Shadow Link
Costume 2: Echoes of wisdom comes with the hood and his (and Zeldas) new equipment!
Green, Whitish Purple, Yellow and Still world?/ Dark? Link

Spoiler: Zelda Echoes of wisdom

Costume 1: Classic Dress
Pink, Blue (Nayru), Red (Din), Green (Farore) her HAir changes colours to match!
Costume 2: Icognito Clothes (with links hood)
Pink, Botw Blue, TP (DArk pink and brown hair), Young Zelda OOT (Everything dark purple)

Keep in mind havent played EOW yet so i probably missed some alts! but im pretty happy with links alts!

 

[Garteam]

This is my thought on any big mechanical change that would require some major, universal rework across the roster.

To casuals, fighting games are their casts. No, casuals do not buy fighting games for story modes alone. Those are too anemic to stand up on their own if you're not a fan of the characters or the underlying game going in. The roster is the action figures, the story mode is a plastic play set. If a casual fan cannot differentiate between the mechanics of two fighting games, which is often the case if two games are generally similar, then the characters make up the difference.

Yes, other fighting games frequently cull and reinvent their veterans, but those games aren't Smash. Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, and especially Rivals of Aether are all aimed at a much specialized audience that is much more intimately familiar with how the genre works. There's an expectation that this isn't your first rodeo.

And, to be candid, is following the mainstream fighting game industry really that great of an idea? These games are slowly becoming infamous for being half-finished products with progressively smaller player bases that are increasingly beholden to being continuously nickeled and dimed to make up for inflating budgets and decreased sales of the base game. The origin of things like the $5 Mishima Dojo isn't solely corporate greed, it's an attempt to find alternate models of monetization to keep major studios interested in the genre.

Any mechanical change has to make up for the utility lost from characters being removed from the judgment point of a casual fan. Yes, a thread full of people who have put thousands of hours into Smash is going to get a lot more out of something like an aerial Smash Attack or reworking many of the 64, Melee, and Brawl vets, but the general public isn't as fatigued. I mean, Ultimate still sells. That means casuals feel this entry at least modern enough to be a commercially viable $80 game. Things aren't nearly as stale as we may perceive.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

This is my thought on any big mechanical change that would require some major, universal rework across the roster.

To casuals, fighting games are their casts. No, casuals do not buy fighting games for story modes alone. Those are too anemic to stand up on their own if you're not a fan of the characters or the underlying game going in. The roster is the action figures, the story mode is a plastic play set. If a casual fan cannot differentiate between the mechanics of two fighting games, which is often the case if two games are generally similar, then the characters make up the difference.

Yes, other fighting games frequently cull and reinvent their veterans, but those games aren't Smash. Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, and especially Rivals of Aether are all aimed at a much specialized audience that is much more intimately familiar with how the genre works. There's an expectation that this isn't your first rodeo.

And, to be candid, is following the mainstream fighting game industry really that great of an idea? These games are slowly becoming infamous for being half-finished products with progressively smaller player bases that are increasingly beholden to being continuously nickeled and dimed to make up for inflating budgets and decreased sales of the base game. The origin of things like the $5 Mishima Dojo isn't solely corporate greed, it's an attempt to find alternate models of monetization to keep major studios interested in the genre.

Any mechanical change has to make up for the utility lost from characters being removed from the judgment point of a casual fan. Yes, a thread full of people who have put thousands of hours into Smash is going to get a lot more out of something like an aerial Smash Attack or reworking many of the 64, Melee, and Brawl vets, but the general public isn't as fatigued. I mean, Ultimate still sells. That means casuals feel this entry at least modern enough to be a commercially viable $80 game. Things aren't nearly as stale as we may perceive.

Maybe it's due to me being an Ultimate 2 copium addict, but: 100% agree, would read again.
What works for Tekken doesn't necessarily work for Smash (and viceversa), single player modes are never going to be main draw of a Smash game, and we don't know how good we have it.

That said, something like aerial smash attacks is the kind of organic add-on to the gameplay that I can see working well. Kinda like side specials back in Melee.
I'm more concerned with the fact that imo they don't gel all that well to the current control scheme, and they could end up taking away focus from edgeguarding and all the other cool unique Smash mechanics if not kept in check. A combo from the upper platform of Battlefield that ends in an aerial up smash that kills your opponent at 25% doesn't sound all that fun, but if aerial smash attacks are as strong as grounded ones, that's bound to happen a lot.
If they manage to overcome these difficulties, though, why not? Maybe that's how Ridley finally gets the pogo tail and Banjo & Kazooie get the Beak Buster.

I personally didn't feel like this for custom moves. Those always felt like a tacked-on feature to me.

 

[BuckleyTim]

The five dollar footlong mishina dojo thing makes me think because I'm just gonna say it: Mii costumes that are from the same series as the dlc pack should be apart of the pack. Selling them for a dollar apiece isn't on the same level as Tekken 8, but it does feel like unintentional inspiration for whatever guy had to figure out how to squeeze every last drop out of the bottom line.

I always wonder who's buying Mii costumes like the Teddie helmet or whatnot. Some of those hats are real stretchs to get an extra dollar out of people.

Ninja edit: honestly Mii costumes as honorable mentions make sense but still feel sleazy to me because of the whole "buying it will communicate to the devs that we want them playable" angle. Like they could gather community feedback through say, a Ballot instead of adding a surcharge to our "votes".

 

[Perkilator]

The five dollar footlong mishina dojo thing makes me think because I'm just gonna say it: Mii costumes that are from the same series as the dlc pack should be apart of the pack. Selling them for a dollar apiece isn't on the same level as Tekken 8, but it does feel like unintentional inspiration for whatever guy had to figure out how to squeeze every last drop out of the bottom line.

I always wonder who's buying Mii costumes like the Teddie helmet or whatnot. Some of those hats are real stretchs to get an extra dollar out of people.

Ninja edit: honestly Mii costumes as honorable mentions make sense but still feel sleazy to me because of the whole "buying it will communicate to the devs that we want them playable" angle. Like they could gather community feedback through say, a Ballot instead of adding a surcharge to our "votes".

If anything, Mii Costumes should be bundled with Challenger Packs regardless of whether or not they’re from the same series as a DLC fighter.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Keep in mind havent played EOW yet so i probably missed some alts! but im pretty happy with links alts!

I just want to say that I'm legitimately pissed that in this game where you play as Zelda and can switch to different outfits, there's no Sheik outfit.

It feels like the game even teases it at one point. Impa shows up and is like "You'll need a disguise, Zelda, so I brought you thi- Oh, I guess that hooded cloak you're wearing will do."

 

[SneakyLink]

I just want to say that I'm legitimately pissed that in this game where you play as Zelda and can switch to different outfits, there's no Sheik outfit.

It feels like the game even teases it at one point. Impa shows up and is like "You'll need a disguise, Zelda, so I brought you thi- Oh, I guess that hooded cloak you're wearing will do."

What’s even worse is that Shiek’s amiibo works and unlocks a costume… of Zelda in a blue dress.
Granted, said costume also unlocks with any other amiibo of Zelda, but that is actually a missed opportunity to have Shiek give a Shiek outfit.

 

[NintenZ]

Weird thing I wanted to say

You know who I think is being slept on?

Fitness Boxing!

I know it would probably make people really angry but it makes a lot of sense. Imagineer has been supportive of Nintendo for years now! (Reminder they made an RPG for Nintendo 64 when no one else would). Not to mention it’s sold 1m copies, had a television anime, and crossovers with Hatsune Miku and Fist of the North Star.

Heck, even Sakurai talked about it in a Famitsu column.

so what are ya waiting for? FITNESS BOXING SWEEEEEEP!

 

[BuckleyTim]

I could see it as an assist trophy. The trainer appears behind the stage like Andross and the UI appears on the battlefield- the obvious happens whenever they punch to the beat.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I always wonder who's buying Mii costumes like the Teddie helmet or whatnot. Some of those hats are real stretchs to get an extra dollar out of people.

I totally didnt buy all the hats

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I just want to say that I'm legitimately pissed that in this game where you play as Zelda and can switch to different outfits, there's no Sheik outfit.

It feels like the game even teases it at one point. Impa shows up and is like "You'll need a disguise, Zelda, so I brought you thi- Oh, I guess that hooded cloak you're wearing will do."

I hadn't even thought of that yet and you're so ****ing right. How did they miss THAT?!

She doesn't even try to hide her name during the entire part that she's on the run either. And no one questions why she has the same name as the wanted princess. Is Hyrule filled with idiots?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I personally didn't feel like this for custom moves. Those always felt like a tacked-on feature to me.

It only felt that way because the idea was infeasible, and then they made you grind for hours to get them all.

The way it was set up, as of ultimate, there would be 984 special moves, assuming that Echo Fighters got all the same customs, which wouldn't be the case due to Chrom, and probably also Ken. It's ridiculous. Delthezin's idea of giving each fighter a single set of custom moves is much better, but still bad as it reduces that number to only 656 (with the same assumptions made + the Miis would be down-scaling as well). If the roster were a much more manageable size, custom moves would be a great addition, it just can't work with Smash's scope.

Come to think of it, air smash attacks would probably have a similar issue. Assuming everyone comes back, that's 246 new moves, and everyone in the entire cast has to be redesigned to accomodate them. I won't say it's impossible, and the idea is very interesting to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decide against ever adding new moves like this.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Smash has definitely reached a size and scope so big that the only way we can get entirely new moves as universal mechanics rather than character-specific stuff is if Sakurai hits the reset button and starts the series over from scratch.

But the size and scope Smash has reached also makes the idea of a reboot an absolute gambit. It almost feels too big for turning back to be a viable option unless they really make sure everything they put on that reboot makes it worth buying despite Ultimate... existing, really.

Basically, by making Ultimate, Sakurai put himself into a very bad corner for trying to follow up on it.

 

[Dukefire]

I can safely say that Super Smash Bros Ultimate is a crossover game that no other company can perform without lots of money and discussion.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That said, something like aerial smash attacks is the kind of organic add-on to the gameplay that I can see working well. Kinda like side specials back in Melee.
I'm more concerned with the fact that imo they don't gel all that well to the current control scheme, and they could end up taking away focus from edgeguarding and all the other cool unique Smash mechanics if not kept in check. A combo from the upper platform of Battlefield that ends in an aerial up smash that kills your opponent at 25% doesn't sound all that fun, but if aerial smash attacks are as strong as grounded ones, that's bound to happen a lot.
If they manage to overcome these difficulties, though, why not? Maybe that's how Ridley finally gets the pogo tail and Banjo & Kazooie get the Beak Buster.

And personally, I think arguing that we can't make any universal mechicanic additions/changes would make more sense if Ultimate didn't already do that.

There's directional airdodges and powershielding being reworked into "parries" like I mentioned yesterday, but there's also stuff like the universal 3 frame jumpsquat, balloon knockback that gets triggered if an attack deals enough knockback, all those replaced FS's because they don't fit the gameplay they're aiming for, etc. They were already ensuring you're not just playing a carbon copy of Smash 4.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

It only felt that way because the idea was infeasible, and then they made you grind for hours to get them all.

The way it was set up, as of ultimate, there would be 984 special moves, assuming that Echo Fighters got all the same customs, which wouldn't be the case due to Chrom, and probably also Ken. It's ridiculous. Delthezin's idea of giving each fighter a single set of custom moves is much better, but still bad as it reduces that number to only 656 (with the same assumptions made + the Miis would be down-scaling as well). If the roster were a much more manageable size, custom moves would be a great addition, it just can't work with Smash's scope.

Come to think of it, air smash attacks would probably have a similar issue. Assuming everyone comes back, that's 246 new moves, and everyone in the entire cast has to be redesigned to accomodate them. I won't say it's impossible, and the idea is very interesting to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decide against ever adding new moves like this.

For what it's worth, even the simpler customization via Spirits doesn't strike me as a particularly well suited mechanic for Smash.
I don't know, its pick up and play nature is such a big part of its appeal. Losing yourself in menus with literally thousands of options before starting a fight that doesn't really need all that stuff to be fun feels kinda absurd.
Same for custom moves, really, but those were also awfully implemented.

Aerial smash attacks could be feasible maybe? I don't want to downplay them, but they'd mostly be a big commitment on animation and particularly on design. Programming-wise they'd mostly be big moves were knockback goes vrrrrr like regular smash attacks. Even Smash 4's custom moves, as undercooked as they were, felt more difficult to make for the most part, at least at a glance.
Plus they were already considered for Ultimate.

I don't know how I'd feel about them to be honest, but they'd easily feel like the most natural gameplay expansion since the introduction of Final Smashes imo.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'm sure Sakurai would want to cut as little characters as possible for the next game, but then there's a problem because of the possibility of a condensed roster. And even if they cut at least 1/4 of the roster, would they even have enough room for reworks or a few major mechanics like new moves, or even newcomers?

 

[Dukefire]

I'm sure Sakurai would want to cut as little characters as possible for the next game, but then there's a problem because of the possibility of a condensed roster. And even if they cut at least 1/4 of the roster, would they even have enough room for reworks or a few major mechanics like new moves, or even newcomers?

That is the BIG question applied to the development team and Sakurai. Creation takes time and money for man power on building a huge game project.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

TBH I'm not necessarily looking for any major changes to the series' gameplay, even if I do want Smash 6 to have some differences. I'm more interested in individual moveset changes.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I truly feel like air dashes would being a good mix of freshening up the gameplay while also not requiring too much in terms of new stuff or drastic rebalancing. If they can make the input simple enough, it could be something both casuals and hardcore players would really have fun with.

Also air dashes are cool.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I truly feel like air dashes would being a good mix of freshening up the gameplay while also not requiring too much in terms of new stuff or drastic rebalancing. If they can make the input simple enough, it could be something both casuals and hardcore players would really have fun with.

Also air dashes are cool.

It'd be interesting to see how the Smash devs would implement them considering how the Fraymakers devs thought they were too powerful to impliment without something to give them a downside. IIRC their solution was to make air dash attacks put you into freefall.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It'd be interesting to see how the Smash devs would implement them considering how the Fraymakers devs thought they were too powerful to impliment without something to give them a downside. IIRC their solution was to make air dash attacks put you into freefall.

I think a simple way to do them would be for them to take the same resource as a double jump. So you could either double jump or air dash but never both.

In the case of multi-jumpers, they could probably only air dash once before touching the ground, and it would still take away one of their jumps.

Probably not the most balanced solution but like... it's a good starting point.