Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hell, in the case of a lot of Rivals characters, you could directly port them from their home game and they'd STILL be some of the most mechanically unique fighters in the game. Like, imagine if Smash added Maypul, who has so many unique mechanics that it's hard to list them all.

But the biggest thing they should take from Rivals is the fact that there isn't a single Smash character with an alt as perfect as Chef Loxodont. This is the peak alternate costumes.

If Smash somehow gets Loxodont but they don't bring this alt and the metaballs along, then what's even the point?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I was already leaning on Loxodont if I ever picked up Rivals 2 because I gravitate towards the big heavies.

That costume seals the deal.

 

[Laniv]

Ah, yes, people are discussing Rivals of Aether. Good

Outside of Loxodont, one of the coolest characters in that game, how cool would La Reina be?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ah, yes, people are discussing Rivals of Aether. Good

Outside of Loxodont, one of the coolest characters in that game, how cool would La Reina be?

View attachment 395831

La Reina vs Incineroar would be a matchup for the ages

 

[ninjahmos]

It'd probably never happen, but I kinda would like to see Zangief VS Incineroar in Smash.

And maybe Blanka VS Pikachu

 

[Zerp]

Ah, yes, people are discussing Rivals of Aether. Good

Outside of Loxodont, one of the coolest characters in that game, how cool would La Reina be?

View attachment 395831

That'd be awesome. La Reina's taunt and walk cycle would both instantly be the best in the game if it's anything like workshop lol

 

[Gorgonzales]

Ah, yes, people are discussing Rivals of Aether. Good

Outside of Loxodont, one of the coolest characters in that game, how cool would La Reina be?

View attachment 395831

The guy who made La Reina somehow getting the silly workshop character he made into the biggest video game crossover of all time

 

[PeridotGX]

Honestly, I like how NASB implemented them, I wouldn't mind that for smash


You're right

It's him

if there's UT content in the next smash game, this better be a spirit and/or trophy

 

[Opossum]

if there's UT content in the next smash game, this better be a spirit and/or trophy
View attachment 395832

This is a bit off topic but I need to bring it up because I've never seen anyone talk about this, but I'm 100% certain this Berdly statue is based on Dedede's self portrait from this Brawl in the Family comic from 2009 because the similarities are uncanny but I have no way to confirm it lmao.

Spoiler

 

[Perkilator]

Delzethin just released a moveset video for Kamek.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

Only if they also make one of the face buttons a Smash button.

It'd probably never happen, but I kinda would like to see Zangief Haggar VS Incineroar in Smash.

Fixed.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If Mewtwo gets a Tough Guy (Psychic Shielding?) mechanic, it would be really funny if its effects were stronger on his tail. Like, he has Kazuya level armor on his body (With the threshold upped to account for his lower weight), but the tail had armor that's stronger than Bowser's, even accounting for weight differences.

The devs would be like "we need everything to be consistent, so you don't get intangibility, but you can have armour now...also pay no attention to the Min Min still getting away with murder."

...Actually that might be an interesting compromise. Give Min Min Tough Guy on her arms when she Punches. That way she doesn't get screwed by stray projectiles and such, but you could in theory contest them much easier, especially at higher percentages. It would also give you more of a reason to use Megawatt, as it's harder to trade with.
EDIT: You could even have the armor be dependent on the ARM: Ram Ram has terrible armour, but Megawatt's is quite beefy.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Mewtwo gets a Tough Guy (Psychic Shielding?) mechanic, it would be really funny if its effects were stronger on his tail. Like, he has Kazuya level armor on his body (With the threshold upped to account for his lower weight), but the tail had armor that's stronger than Bowser's, even accounting for weight differences.

The devs would be like "we need everything to be consistent, so you don't get intangibility, but you can have armour now...also pay no attention to the Min Min still getting away with murder."

...Actually that might be an interesting compromise. Give Min Min Tough Guy on her arms when she Punches. That way she doesn't get screwed by stray projectiles and such, but you could in theory contest them much easier, especially at higher percentages. It would also give you more of a reason to use Megawatt, as it's harder to trade with.
EDIT: You could even have the armor be dependent on the ARM: Ram Ram has terrible armour, but Megawatt's is quite beefy.

I think being able to contest Min Min's arms would definitely make her far healthier, yeah.

But instead of just dealing knockback if a hit overpowers the armor, the ARM could just fall to the ground and leave Min Min stuck for a second.

You get to counter the ARM and are rewarded by having an opening created for you to go in and kick her ass.

 

[Opossum]

Only if they also make one of the face buttons a Smash button.

This is the controller layout I use for the NASB games and it works like a dream lol. X for jump, Y for strong attacks (smash attack equivalent), A for light attacks (tilt equivalent), and B for specials.

Honestly I just hope they make one out of X or Y do something else by default. We don't need two dedicated jump buttons. Hell, even just making one of them a dedicated short hop button would be better than what we have now.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This is the controller layout I use for the NASB games and it works like a dream lol. X for jump, Y for strong attacks (smash attack equivalent), A for light attacks (tilt equivalent), and B for specials.

Honestly I just hope they make one out of X or Y do something else by default. We don't need two dedicated jump buttons. Hell, even just making one of them a dedicated short hop button would be better than what we have now.

I kinda like the dual jump buttons because it gives my thumb access to the desired attack while jumping. I suppose it really only effects the farthest button, but I ended up remapping my controls in Rivals of Aether II so I could still do this. I set strongs are on C-stick, though this isn't a perfect solution as the lack of Smash inputs means I still had to rewire my brain for strongs, which makes Wrastor awkward to play, and ruins my smash muscle memory because there I have it set to tilts...

Your way probably is better lol. It just doesn't mesh well with my brain.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Finished Banjo-Tooie just in time for the next Mario & Luigi!
It's amazing how much work they put into the NSO version of this game. Especially if you compare it to stuff like F-Zero X which still can't run at a smooth frame rate, the most important thing in an F-Zero game...

Let me gush about it for a bit.

Spoiler

The frame rate rarely chugs and is much higher than on Nintendo 64, usually hitting the perfectly acceptable 30 fps target. This and the wide screen effect (already present in the original game, but now it really shines) almost make you feel like you're playing a remaster. The game feels unbelievably smoother than it did on the Nintendo 64, and it actually benefits A LOT from it.
Last time I replayed Tooie, some 8 years ago I think? on my Nintendo 64, I couldn't even finish it and I left somewhat disappointed. It just wasn't very enjoyable, and running around the numerous big open areas in the game in particular destroyed the experience. Blurry images made figuring out where the path is a pain, slideshow framerate made the action feel bad, and the more limited field of view made the levels feel more disorienting than they actually are.
But that's all gone on Switch, and the overall feel of the game is incredibly smoother. Movements are fluid, you always know where you are and you don't have to constantly squint your eyes to notice hidden details in the level. Navigating the levels is now fun! And with that, the actual level design and ideas that they put in the game get to unfold to you as intended. Even the animations read a lot better thanks to the improved frame rate, they're much more exaggerated and cartoony than in Banjo 1 and it's obvious that the Smash team was looking more at Tooie when developing the duo.

Anyways I can't believe I didn't enjoy Tooie all that much last time. What a great game.
It's full of excesses, and it's a bit rough around the edges, but its particular blend of platformer/adventure/metroidvania/open world (and FPS, for some reason) is still very unique 20+ years afterwards and it's just engaging.
The game asks A LOT out of you, you need to keep track not only of the level's layout but also of the way it connects to other levels, and also of the unique abilities of each character and which parts of the level each one can access, and how. Quests are often a multi-step process that also requires you to keep track of what you're doing and to plan your next steps.
The comparisons Tooie gets with DK64 are unfair; in that game most puzzles involve figuring out which kong should step on the switch with Diddy's face, while Tooie is much more stimulating. You often see where your objective is, and you need to figure out how to reach it by either observing the level or understanding which particular skill you have to use to solve the navigational challenge.

It's not a perfect game, its flaws have been discussed numerous times on the internet, but I really loved this.
Compare to Mario Odyssey where you get a Moon every two steps by going around randomly and performing very menial task... Tooie sometimes has you play for one hour without even getting a single Jiggy, but you're not running around aimlessly, you're exploring the level, figuring out how it's laid out and little by little opening up all its sections and understanding how they connect to each other and to sometimes to other levels. Then you can take on the missions that lead you to Jiggies, which are often long multi-step quests themselves.
Sometimes it can admittedly become a little too much, although call me old-timer but Tooie's approach is so much more interesting and engaging. I miss when games weren't afraid of offering you a challenge and of being a little unwelcoming. Dark Souls is one of the few things that still carry that feeling.

Anyways. Really happy about having gotten to revisit Tooie in such a good version of the game.
Between these re-releases and the Smash appearance, the Switch era surprisingly hasn't been the worst time to be a Banjo fan.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Hell, in the case of a lot of Rivals characters, you could directly port them from their home game and they'd STILL be some of the most mechanically unique fighters in the game. Like, imagine if Smash added Maypul, who has so many unique mechanics that it's hard to list them all.

But the biggest thing they should take from Rivals is the fact that there isn't a single Smash character with an alt as perfect as Chef Loxodont. This is the peak of alternate costumes.

Imagine if every characters got a special skin every while, and Mario got a chef skin...

 

[dream1ng]

Imagine if every characters got a special skin every while, and Mario got a chef skin...
View attachment 395844

Skin? That's not even Mario. That's Marco, and he's 100% going to be an echo. xD

 

[Gorgonzales]

Could be interesting, but at that point imo they should bite the bullet and give a dedicated button to smash attacks. Smashing the stick in a direction while you're already tilting it to influence your character's aerial drift just isn't precise enough for what would be such a major mechanic.

This is the controller layout I use for the NASB games and it works like a dream lol. X for jump, Y for strong attacks (smash attack equivalent), A for light attacks (tilt equivalent), and B for specials.

Honestly I just hope they make one out of X or Y do something else by default. We don't need two dedicated jump buttons. Hell, even just making one of them a dedicated short hop button would be better than what we have now.

Smash attacks really should have a dedicated button at this point in the series.
There should also be an option to disable Smash attacking on the left stick so it's easier to just do tilts.

 

[ScrubReborn]

There should also be an option to disable Smash attacking on the left stick so it's easier to just do tilts.

I think you already can do that. You just have to apply the settings to a custom nametag.

 

[Gengar84]

Are there any characters you’d like to see that originated from video games but you’re more familiar with them through other media? The two that come to mind are Jinx from League of Legends and Okabe Rintaro from Steins;Gate. I’ve never played either of their games but both Arcane and Steins;Gate are amazing shows that made me a fan of theirs. I’m curious if other shows like CastleVania, The Last of Us, or Fallout could do the same for people that haven’t played their games. I’ve heard good things about each of those shows.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Are there any characters you’d like to see that originated from video games but you’re more familiar with them through other media? The two that come to mind are Jinx from League of Legends and Okabe Rintaro from Steins;Gate. I’ve never played either of their games but both Arcane and Steins;Gate are amazing shows that made me a fan of theirs. I’m curious if other shows like CastleVania, The Last of Us, or Fallout could do the same for people that haven’t played their games. I’ve heard good things about each of those shows.

I learned of Touhou through various fanart, and then learned of the games and great music.

Albeit, I'm a major Cirno fan. Not that she'd be more than a Spirit(or an AT, if super lucky, heh).

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

The Fallout show is quite good. Fun setting and a couple of great characters, good soundtrack, good twists, plus it has Kyle McLachlan! One of the final reveals is pretty dumb, but whatever... I'm really looking forward to the next season.

 

[NintenZ]

Would like more grapplers in Smash.

I play mostly grapplers and heavies in fighting games, I main Incineroar in Smash been playing Blanka in Street Fighter since the arcades, Cable was one of my mains in Marvel vs Capcom 2, Lidivia in Granblue Fantasy Versus Rising, Big Band in Skullgirls, the list goes on.

More would be great! Even if I am happy with Incineroar and think he represents them well.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Are there any characters you’d like to see that originated from video games but you’re more familiar with them through other media? The two that come to mind are Jinx from League of Legends and Okabe Rintaro from Steins;Gate. I’ve never played either of their games but both Arcane and Steins;Gate are amazing shows that made me a fan of theirs. I’m curious if other shows like CastleVania, The Last of Us, or Fallout could do the same for people that haven’t played their games. I’ve heard good things about each of those shows.

I didn't like Arcane that much (sue me), but I wouldn't argue about Jinx getting in. I like her design and she'd be a fitting choice to represent MOBAs.

 

[Gengar84]

I didn't like Arcane that much (sue me), but I wouldn't argue about Jinx getting in. I like her design and she'd be a fitting choice to represent MOBAs.

No worries, to each their own. I thought it was great but everyone has their own tastes. I think Arcane and Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood are my two favorite animated shows. Have you seen Steins;Gate? That’s another favorite of mine.

Would like more grapplers in Smash.

I play mostly grapplers and heavies in fighting games, I main Incineroar in Smash been playing Blanka in Street Fighter since the arcades, Cable was one of my mains in Marvel vs Capcom 2, Lidivia in Granblue Fantasy Versus Rising, Big Band in Skullgirls, the list goes on.

More would be great! Even if I am happy with Incineroar and think he represents them well.

Does Astaroth from Soul Calibur qualify as a grappler? He’s always been my favorite character to use in those games and does have some grappling moves though he’s more a heavy charge based axe user. Astraroth also has some of the cooler designs in the series in my opinion.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Even in a 50 character roster where there are only 3 attacks each, that's still 150 animations that need to be created. You're still looking at multiple characters' worth of work. There is no roster that can realistically compete with Ultimate and still have this mechanic. You would need a roster smaller than Smash for Wii U and 3DS' launch roster to make this work and, even then, it would still likely be the most labour-intensive addition to Smash's movesets ever.

Tweaking pre-existing animations to save time would not work because attacks need to be clearly distinguishable from a distance. There's a reason that even characters who have conceptually similar tilts and smash attacks have dramatically different body movements when executing their moves (e.g. the Belmonts and Steve really leaning into their swings for f-smash). The only real way around that is to do what Robin does and have clearly and obvious different effects for the aerial smashes. Some characters lend themselves very naturally to this (Mario, Captain Falcon, etc.), others don't (Inkling, Snake, Joker, etc.)

EDIT: I realized I misunderstood your second point. Characters use others as bases all the time, but animating is still an incredibly time-intensive process. There are also a lot of characters that this method wouldn't work for. Who is R.O.B or Steve going to use as a base?

...and it just dawned on me that they were making more than 3 new animations for all the Smash 4 veterans in Ultimate anyway, if you consider:

• Directional airdodges
• Parries
• Taunt animations being tweaked or otherwise completely changed so it makes more sense that taunts are faster now, or to accommodate new character portrayals like Zelda.
• And that's not getting into all the animation changes every single veteran received that don't fall in to those categories

 

[DarthEnderX]

This is the controller layout I use for the NASB games and it works like a dream lol. X for jump, Y for strong attacks (smash attack equivalent), A for light attacks (tilt equivalent), and B for specials.

Nah, son. The bottom button is always jump. Everyone knows that!

Are there any characters you’d like to see that originated from video games but you’re more familiar with them through other media?

Nah. Only examples of that I can think of are Arcane and Last of Us, and I don't care if either of those make it into Smash.

I play mostly grapplers and heavies in fighting games, I main Incineroar in Smash been playing Blanka in Street Fighter since the arcades,

...Blanka isn't a grappler.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I play mostly grapplers and heavies in fighting games, [...] Cable was one of my mains in Marvel vs Capcom 2

......................Cable? A grappler?

I want to hear your case on this because bro doesn't even have a command grab special and even if he did, he's more of an Air Hyper Viper Beam machine than anything else.

Does Astaroth from Soul Calibur qualify as a grappler? He’s always been my favorite character to use in those games and does have some grappling moves though he’s more a heavy charge based axe user. Astraroth also has some of the cooler designs in the series in my opinion.

He's the closest thing to a grappler that a weapon-based fighting game can have without feeling like absolute garbage and he's the only one for whom the grabs are REQUIRED in order to do well with him, so I say yes.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Have you seen Steins;Gate? That’s another favorite of mine.

Yeah I watched and it enjoyed it, I mentioned that earlier.

EDIT: I enjoyed FMAB a lot too. And while it's not eligible for Smash, I find it interesting it's owned by Square Enix.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah I watched and it enjoyed it, I mentioned that earlier.

EDIT: I enjoyed FMAB a lot too. And while it's not eligible for Smash, I find it interesting it's owned by Square Enix.

lol yeah I see that now. I couldn’t remember who said Okabe was one of their most wanted but I see it was you now. Sorry about that. I actually just watched Steins;Gate Deja Vu last night for the first time. It was enjoyable but the ending felt a little rushed and anti climactic. Still great to see all the characters again and cool they gave Makise Kurisu a chance to shine on her own. I am curious if the success of the anime was enough to get some Smash representation, whether it be a playable character or Mii outfit.

 

[smashkirby]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

I can't say I wouldn't be curious to see how that would be implenmented. Say... Robin is said to be the only character who can use (uncharged) Smash Attacks in the air (When using the Levin Sword), right?

Although, I should mention that the reason I WOULDN'T want it to be a thing for EVERY character is... well, I was sort of thinking that CHARGEABLE midair Smash Attacks could serve as a "niche" for a Pilotwings character (Be it Lark or another character).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Say... Robin is said to be the only character who can use (uncharged) Smash Attacks in the air (When using the Levin Sword), right?

Min Min also gets uncharged smash attacks in the air, actually

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Super Smash Bros., but everyone is Wrastor is a funny thing to think about.

Imagine trying to land against a levitating Bowser charging his Up Smash.

EDIT: Scratch that, imagine trying to land against a levitating Sephiroth charging his Up Smash. lol

EDIT EDIT: Actually, while I wouldn't make air smash attacks air stall for everyone, it would be an interesting property to add to specific characters. Ganondorf, Ridley, and Bowser Jr. would be the primary characters I'd look at for such a mechanic.

 

[PeridotGX]

Aerial smash attacks were considered for iirc ultimate, would you want those implemented?

I see a lot of people in the thread saying they want these - but the opportunity cost makes me think it's unnecessary. Let's say the next Smash game has 50 veterans - that's 50 new moves that need to be animated and balanced at minimum. If there are three midair Smash attacks, that's 150 animations - and sure, you could probably re-use a few animations here and there, but it's still a ton of effort that would eat up resources that I would rather go to newcomers or fixing already existing moves on veterans.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Super Smash Bros., but everyone is Wrastor is a funny thing to think about.

Imagine trying to land against a levitating Bowser charging his Up Smash.

EDIT: Scratch that, imagine trying to land against a levitating Sephiroth charging his Up Smash. lol

EDIT EDIT: Actually, while I wouldn't make air smash attacks air stall for everyone, it would be an interesting property to add to specific characters. Ganondorf, Ridley, and Bowser Jr. would be the primary characters I'd look at for such a mechanic.

Palutena Up Smash but in the air

 

[Shinuto]

Hey let's think up new Assist Trophy ideas!

Big the Cat: He sits down on stage and starts casting his lure out, think a much longer range Isabelle Side Special. If he catches a fighter he'll reel em in and throw em away. thrown fighters deal damage to other fighters they fly into. Occasionally Big will catch an actual fish, he will hold it above his head, these fish can be eaten by players to restore a bit of health.

Fi: Fi dances across the stage doing kicks and transforming into a sword to swipe at fighters. she can be attacked and defeated in fights.

Chaos: Chaos will throw out his long stretching arm to attack fighters, spinning around, turning into a large ball of water that bounces players off its surface and can transform into a puddle to trap players while moving around as well. On rare occasions he will transform into Perfect Chaos and perform massive stage covering tidal waves and energy beams and tornados doing widespread absurd damage, this can be stopped if a point on his head is damaged enough.

Penn: He flies around throwing newspapers at everyone, he will also swipe at fighters with his large wings and bite with his beak.

Lanky Kong: He can inflate himself like a balloon and act as a platform for fighters. Attacking him in this state will end his inflation early, Lanky will also stretch out his arms to attack fighters and move around to shoot at fighters with his grape blowgun. If he KOs a fighter he will do a little dance.

Magda: flowers will sprout around her, if any fighters step in these flowers or attack them she will violently attack the fighter(s) with frightening speed, she can very easily KO most fighters.

Heartless: Heartless will spawn all over the stage, attacking anyone that comes near them, the heartless that spawn are Shadows, Darkballs, Large Bodies, Green Requiems, Hot Rods, Parasol Beauties and Invisibles. Shadows Darkballs and Invisibles can become untouchable for brief periods of time, Large Bodies are invulnerable from the front, Hot Rods travel over the stage very quickly and deal high knockback, Green Requiems can heal fighters nearby and Heartless, Parasol Beauties can fire energy beams from their parasols and can float in the air, and Invisibles can curse fighters with a ark shadowy ring surrounding them that ignore shields and must be jumped or dodge rolled through with good timing.

Behemoth: seperate from the Heartless spawn is the Behemoth Heartless, it can slam down into the stage with a big jump, rain down dark orbs it casts from its horn, cast thundaga spellls all over and can be riden/stood atop of and attacked by fighters. It is a very large AT on par with Rathalos.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Sylux: he breaks a wall and enters the scene as the music picks up. That's it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sylux: he breaks a wall and enters the scene as the music picks up. That's it.

I got a better idea.

When you pick up the assist trophy, a single note falls on the floor. The note says. "Sylux will be an important character and actually do something in twenty years."

The match then continues as normal.

 

[Ivander]

I got a better idea.

When you pick up the assist trophy, a single note falls on the floor. The note says. "Sylux will be an important character and actually do something in twenty years."

The match then continues as normal.

Prince Ryoma will wait patiently for his revenge, but only for 25 turns. After that, he will begin his assault.