Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Opossum]

It's never actually stated she's any kind of god. As far as we know, she's just a powerful human with magic.

At the very least I'd classify her as a demigod due to her greatly extended lifespan alone, since that at least implies an ascension of some sort.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ya'know, one the creative liberties that feels the strangest to me is the fact that Pyra/Mythra's run cycle involves them flying. Like, I know exactly why they did this, and I get it, but it's still super weird. They even doubled down on these random floaty powers by having The Aegis Sword float while they grab someone.

And to be clear, I don't hate this change, it just sticks out to me as a thing that they shouldn't be able to do.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I don't see how Emio being a VN game means it can't be horror.

If anything, a certain game out there very much proved it's possible to bring out horror vibes from a game with nothing but text and pngs. One that may or may not involve poems and a school club.

So it's simple then. Put "Just Monika" in Smash.

Ya'know, one the creative liberties that feels the strangest to me is the fact that Pyra/Mythra's run cycle involves them flying. Like, I know exactly why they did this, and I get it, but it's still super weird. They even doubled down on these random floaty powers by having The Aegis Sword float while they grab someone.

And to be clear, I don't hate this change, it just sticks out to me as a thing that they shouldn't be able to do.

Mythra and Malos fly in Torna in the cutscene after the final boss fight

Spoiler: Torna: The Golden Country spoilers

 

[Louie G.]

I think Pauline is cool and you could do alot of original stuff with her, you don't really need to give her a super gimmicky moveset, You could just have it be instrument or music note themed.

any comparisons to a Splatoon Idol or Rhythm Heaven character is IMO, Overthinking things way too hard.

I don’t agree. If you’re giving Pauline a “music note themed” moveset then I’m not expecting them to explore Chorus Kids or KK Slider. If she was added and did a bunch of showy choreography, it’s not unreasonable to acknowledge the potential overlap with a pair of idols. I never said anything about any of these characters being especially gimmicky.

I know that we like to be open minded and acknowledge all the vast differences and I appreciate that. In the event where we’re comparing a character who was added ten years ago and one speculated to join next game, sure. But newcomer space is limited and I don’t especially think we’d eat up two of them on the premise of “fights with dance” or “fights with music” even if the execution is starkly different. Maybe that is me being too pessimistic but I don’t think I’m overthinking anything here, I’m actually looking it at it very simply.

As acknowledged there are multiple directions you could take with Pauline that could theoretically coexist. But I just don’t personally believe there is room for two newcomers with an explicit, centralized music focus. I wish there was but I don’t have confidence in that. So that hinges a lot on how they would choose to represent that.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Videospiel means Videogame thought i translated it!

This is the last thing I’m gonna say on this, very brief thing but it might be helpful later on for reach if you DO make a game with him, but spiel means something completely different in English than it does German (which I assume is your native language, apologies if that’s incorrect, typed this on mobile and couldn’t see location text). In German it does mean game, that’s correct.

In English though spiel means “a long or fast speech or story, typically one intended as a means of persuasion or as an excuse but regarded with skepticism or contempt by those who hear it” which makes it sound like he’s a bad video essayist.

Again, not poking fun at you or anything, just letting you know in case you do make an indie game centered around it in the future.

 

[Laniv]

You know what would be neat, if Sakurai saw Pauline and went "Broadway, the fighter."

Like his vision for Pauline would be to have her fighting style be akin to a musical theatre performer. Move across the stage like it's part of her choreography. Maybe New Donkers can be part of her ensemble cast. Let her fight like she's giving a performance.

Pauline reveal trailer hitting like:

 

[DarthEnderX]

It's never actually stated she's any kind of god. As far as we know, she's just a powerful human with magic.

Hm hm hm...you poor naive mortal. Unable to pierce the veil...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don’t agree. If you’re giving Pauline a “music note themed” moveset then I’m not expecting them to explore Chorus Kids or KK Slider. If she was added and did a bunch of showy choreography, it’s not unreasonable to acknowledge the potential overlap with a pair of idols. I never said anything about any of these characters being especially gimmicky.

I know that we like to be open minded and acknowledge all the vast differences and I appreciate that. In the event where we’re comparing a character who was added ten years ago and one speculated to join next game, sure. But newcomer space is limited and I don’t especially think we’d eat up two of them on the premise of “fights with dance” or “fights with music” even if the execution is starkly different. Maybe that is me being too pessimistic but I don’t think I’m overthinking anything here, I’m actually looking it at it very simply.

As acknowledged there are multiple directions you could take with Pauline that could theoretically coexist. But I just don’t personally believe there is room for two newcomers with an explicit, centralized music focus. I wish there was but I don’t have confidence in that. So that hinges a lot on how they would choose to represent that.

My thoughts on this are that while it's probably unlikely that they'd do two musical themed characters at the same time, I don't think they'd be like "hold up, we already have a music character. We can't add this one." Meanwhile the swordies...

They're also very different types of music, and very different characters to boot. Pauline is a human who sings in a jazz band, Pearl is...well I'm not sure of her genre, but it's much more harsh, and she's accompanied by Marina, who also has a different style to her. Then you have the Squid Sisters, who are more pop stars, and the Chorus Kids who are funny white dudes who sing badly in a choir.

Honestly, you probably could make a case for adding more than one of them at a time since these styles would manifest differently: Pauline swinging around a stand mike and hitting you with music notes (and potentially also summoning minis or having some sort of band member/item collection mechanic), the Splatoon Idols having goop guns with music being more of a characterization factor than a moveset premise, and the Rhythm Heaven characters having a rhythm mechanic would all lead toward completely different feeling fighters, even if music is part of their focus.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

You know what would be neat, if Sakurai saw Pauline and went "Broadway, the fighter."

Like his vision for Pauline would be to have her fighting style be akin to a musical theatre performer. Move across the stage like it's part of her choreography. Maybe New Donkers can be part of her ensemble cast. Let her fight like she's giving a performance.

Pauline berates you when you enter Snapshot mode in the middle of the match.

 

[Louie G.]

My thoughts on this are that while it's probably unlikely that they'd do two musical themed characters at the same time, I don't think they'd be like "hold up, we already have a music character. We can't add this one." Meanwhile the swordies...

I figured this might come up and I just wanna make a distinction in how I judge these similarities. I'm thinking in terms of character hook.

I don't consider using a sword to be a "hook". Maybe back in Melee it was special when Marth did it, that's his thing. But nowadays when this is so commonplace these characters all have some other thing going on... and to your point yeah, this could theoretically be the case with characters using music as a thematic throughline. Because there are so many kinds of music, and performance styles. But "theme" is the key here, because this is a fresh new thing we've never done before and is more a general aesthetic or character-infused approach rather than something so general as a style of weapon. I feel that if some of these characters were added, there's a strong chance their core hook is "they are a performer / musician". That'd be the big initiative to having some of them here, especially Pauline.

Would it be a matter of shutting it down immediately because "we already have a music character"? Not really. But I'm trying to visualize Sakurai's pitch document, where he might say about... I'll use Pauline as an example, "she is a performer who attacks with music". A lot of them have to start as couple sentence taglines like this, just a general concept to elaborate on. I have to imagine if Chorus Kids, or KK Slider were on the table their "elevator pitch" might be described in a similar way with one or two different details - add in "has a guitar" or "can attack in rhythm". But I think that baseline overlap would generally hurt their chances of being considered if Pauline was the first one that came to mind. Big what-if, of course.

I still think the most likely are the Splatoon idols, who I suppose after thinking about it some more are also the ones who stand on their own the easiest. Because you potentially have a team-up, duo thing going on and you're using some wacky ink weapons, so that stuff definitely serves as much of a "hook" as being performers does. I still think there's the possibility that "fights with dance choreography" is something that could clash between Squid Sisters / Off the Hook or Pauline. But there's admittedly enough going on here where it's easy to envision other directions that avoid that problem.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I figured this might come up and I just wanna make a distinction in how I judge these similarities. I'm thinking in terms of character hook.

I don't consider using a sword to be a "hook". Maybe back in Melee it was special when Marth did it, that's his thing. But nowadays when this is so commonplace these characters all have some other thing going on... and to your point yeah, this could theoretically be the case with characters using music as a thematic throughline. Because there are so many kinds of music, and performance styles. But "theme" is the key here, because this is a fresh new thing we've never done before and is more a general aesthetic or character-infused approach rather than something so general as a style of weapon. I feel that if some of these characters were added, there's a strong chance their core hook is "they are a performer / musician". That'd be the big initiative to having some of them here, especially Pauline.

Would it be a matter of shutting it down immediately because "we already have a music character"? Not really. But I'm trying to visualize Sakurai's pitch document, where he might say about... I'll use Pauline as an example, "she is a performer who attacks with music". A lot of them end up being simple couple sentence taglines like this, just a general concept to elaborate on. I have to imagine if Chorus Kids, or KK Slider were on the table their "elevator pitch" might be described in a similar way with one or two different details - add in "has a guitar" or "can attack in rhythm". But I think that baseline overlap would generally hurt their chances of being considered if Pauline was the first one that came to mind. Big what-if, of course.

I still think the most likely are the Splatoon idols, who I suppose after thinking about it some more are also the ones who stand on their own the easiest. Because you potentially have a team-up, duo thing going on and you're using some wacky ink weapons, so that stuff definitely serves as much of a "hook" as being performers does. I still think there's the possibility that "fights with dance choreography" is something that could clash between Squid Sisters / Off the Hook or Pauline. But there's admittedly enough going on here where it's easy to envision other directions that avoid that problem.

I have to go, but I do want to say that DLC is another factor to consider:

Base Game: Simon has the farthest range of any character!
DLC 1: Byleth is a distance demon.
DLC 2: So anyway, here's Min Min.

Will any of these characters make DLC? Probably not, but half these characters barely have a shot at base so eh...

 

[Oracle Link]

This is the last thing I’m gonna say on this, very brief thing but it might be helpful later on for reach if you DO make a game with him, but spiel means something completely different in English than it does German (which I assume is your native language, apologies if that’s incorrect, typed this on mobile and couldn’t see location text). In German it does mean game, that’s correct.

In English though spiel means “a long or fast speech or story, typically one intended as a means of persuasion or as an excuse but regarded with skepticism or contempt by those who hear it” which makes it sound like he’s a bad video essayist.

Again, not poking fun at you or anything, just letting you know in case you do make an indie game centered around it in the future.

I know i even made a disclaimer its right here:

German VSM isnt real he cant hurt you!
German VSM:

 

[Shinuto]

I know i even made a disclaimer its right here:
View attachment 395812
German VSM isnt real he cant hurt you!
German VSM:

Stop bringing this oc thing up it has nothing to do with anything in this thread

 

[Louie G.]

I have to go, but I do want to say that DLC is another factor to consider:

Fair enough, I was referring to base game but I also think these things become more flexible when DLC is considered. Especially since Sakurai is, presumably, not the one in charge of DLC selection so the judgement of deliberate archetypes or balance of gameplay style isn't as clean cut.

And frankly... not to put too many conditions on this, but I do think third parties are judged independently from that. Many of them still manage to do their own thing, but I don't think Simon was added in effort to add a distance demon. He was just added because he's Simon. First party characters, especially those who aren't highly requested fan favorites, have to lean a bit harder on what they're bringing to the table that nobody else is.

 

[fogbadge]

I don't consider using a sword to be a "hook". Maybe back in Melee it was special when Marth did it, that's his thing.

is Link a joke to you?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Fair enough, I was referring to base game but I also think these things become more flexible when DLC is considered. Especially since Sakurai is, presumably, not the one in charge of DLC selection so the judgement of deliberate archetypes or balance of gameplay style isn't as clean cut.

I think DLC is something to be considered, but in the circumstance being specifically mentioned, I can't really see characters like KK Slider, Off the Hook, Pauline, or Rhythm Heaven being DLC for a Smash game lol

Especially Rhythm Heaven with this decade long drought we've been forced to endure lol

 

[Louie G.]

is Link a joke to you?

I only highlighted Marth because his thing is exclusively using a sword and a more traditional moveset was created around that, so it's more likely that's the hook or premise that he was sold on. Link is more of a swiss army knife character to me, since the sword isn't his only tool and by Melee he's got three projectiles to throw at you from across the stage plus the hookshot.

Obviously does use a sword, but it wasn't his "thing" or his archetype if that makes sense. Long story short, I didn't forget about him.

 

[Oracle Link]

Stop bringing this oc thing up it has nothing to do with anything in this thread

Dude Didnt you tell me to stay calm!?
I answerd to someone else! I get bringing my "OC" or to be more specific my story up is the wrong time however this was merely A Reply to someone else he asked if im aware what spiel means in english and i replied by showing him the disclaimer!

I Actually dont plan to continue this topic yet you guys continually bring it up again...

So Lets do this I dont bring this "oc" up for a while and you guys dont make me answer Anything problem solved!

 

[fogbadge]

Dude Didnt you tell me to stay calm!?

no that was me

 

[dream1ng]

Rosalina ain't human. She's some kind of Outer God.

Well neither is Waluigi. He's an eldritch abomination.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Same here. My brother and I have been working on a story for an RPG game since we were kids. We’ve got a ton of character art and backstories and my brother’s already written the prologue and a few other sections as well as made the opening are in RPG Maker. No enemies or combat yet but just an area you can walk around in. It’s a ton of work so I doubt we’ll ever actually finish but it’s a fun side hobby.

You know funny enough, for years I've been considering getting an RPG Maker and I'm not even an RPG fan. lol

I just tend think up all these different crossover games (such as a Nintendo and SEGA crossover) and while I usually want to just write my own fanfics of them, making an actual game of them is just so tempting.

 

[Gengar84]

You know funny enough, for years I've been considering getting an RPG Maker and I'm not even an RPG fan. lol

I just tend think up all these different crossover games (such as a Nintendo and SEGA crossover) and while I usually want to just write my own fanfics of them, making an actual game of them is just so tempting.

Yeah that sounds like fun. Even with RPG Maker, it’s still a ton of work and you have to really know what you’re doing, which we don’t fully get ourselves. I’d love to make a Pokemon fan game but if I’m going to put that much work into a game, I’d prefer it be our own characters and story so maybe we could turn it into something one day. Crossover fan games could still be a ton of fun though. Like a Pokemon game that has guests like Goombas, Slimes, Final Fantasy monsters and summons, and other things. Imagining how other creatures could work as Pokemon would be really interesting.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dude Didnt you tell me to stay calm!?
I answerd to someone else! I get bringing my "OC" or to be more specific my story up is the wrong time however this was merely A Reply to someone else he asked if im aware what spiel means in english and i replied by showing him the disclaimer!

I Actually dont plan to continue this topic yet you guys continually bring it up again...

So Lets do this I dont bring this "oc" up for a while and you guys dont make me answer Anything problem solved!

Best thing to do is not reply and at worst, hit the ignore button for those causing you trouble(even if it's just till the topic goes to the next page, to guarantee the topic has moved on). Unfortunately, some don't bother to read the topic up to the last pages before hitting the Post reply button, which causes unnecessary issues. Anybody who simply was a bit patient would realize the topic moved on anyway.

That said, webcomics are still cool. I really should get to working on an ideal one I have(a riff on Quest 64 and its Gameboy remake, albeit, I lack some sprites to do that, lol).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Omega is cool.

He's one of my dream picks that are never happening. Lol.

 

[ninjahmos]

Mike Haggar and Strider Hiryu are two of my dream picks that are probably never gonna happen.

 

[SharkLord]

Welp, Shadow Generations is finished.

Shadow for next Smash? Possibly. Maybe? Hopefully.

I think Shadow could benefit from a Fox/Wolf situation with Sonic, with specials that fit a similar theme but with more or less distinct normals. Though, it would probably help if Sonic had a cooler moveset for Shadow to bounce off of. Maybe I'll set up a rework of Sonic to go with a Shadow moveset

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I’m being pulled out of self-imposed retirement. or something. I’ve been preoccupied with a lot of things.

Please refrain from discussing whatever character Oracle Link created as 1) it’s not a video game character and 2) this thread is to discuss videogame characters in Smash.

Using this thread to discuss this character or other webcomic/user-created OC’s will result in spam warnings. This also means responding or egging the user in question. If they mention it, report and move on.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

this thread is to discuss videotape characters in Smash.

This is how The Ring wins

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

This is how The Ring wins

im fine with Sadako in smadh

also sorry I have not been around. I have health and mental issues that became really bad. I won’t go into depth bout it as it’s not the place but I suppose I’m in a good place now

I’m glad everyone is doing well

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

im fine with Sadako in smadh

also sorry I have not been around. I have health and mental issues that became really bad. I won’t go into depth bout it as it’s not the place but I suppose I’m in a good place now

I’m glad everyone is doing well

And if they won't add Sadako, then they can add Hisako instead!

Not the Killer Instinct rep we deserve, but the Killer Instinct rep we need...or something.

Also hello again!

 

[Wunderwaft]

Omega is cool.

He's one of my dream picks that are never happening. Lol.

ANNIHILATE ANNIHILATE ANNIHILATE

 

[Cyberfire]

Omega is cool.

He's one of my dream picks that are never happening. Lol.

Now I kinda want Sakurai to pick Omega over Shadow/Tails/Knuckles and watch the world burn.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What do you guys think about Tough Guy/Tough Body?

I personally think it's kind of a dumb mechanic. Like, it's supposed to make Bowser and Kazuya seem more intimidating, but making it so that a bunch of random attacks have 0 hitstun at seemingly random percentages isn't intimidating as it is annoying. Some of these are really silly too, like Bowser Tough guying uncharged Hero's Bow, but only if he's at 7% or less, unless he's crouching in which case it extends to 25%.

Interestingly, I had been given the impression that Tough Body was better than Tough Guy, but it very much isn't. It's still kinda weird that a fighting game character was given this mechanic though. Also, it's kinda weird design-wise that both characters with the passive armor are the ones that use armor and intangibility the most liberally throughout their moveset. I guess the devs just really wanted their attacks be incontestable, but I feel like there's a better way to go about that kind of design space.

 

[Garteam]

What do you guys think about Tough Guy/Tough Body?

I personally think it's kind of a dumb mechanic. Like, it's supposed to make Bowser and Kazuya seem more intimidating, but making it so that a bunch of random attacks have 0 hitstun at seemingly random percentages isn't intimidating as it is annoying. Some of these are really silly too, like Bowser Tough guying uncharged Hero's Bow, but only if he's at 7% or less, unless he's crouching in which case it extends to 25%.

Interestingly, I had been given the impression that Tough Body was better than Tough Guy, but it very much isn't. It's still kinda weird that a fighting game character was given this mechanic though. Also, it's kinda weird design-wise that both characters with the passive armor are the ones that use armor and intangibility the most liberally throughout their moveset. I guess the devs just really wanted their attacks be incontestable, but I feel like there's a better way to go about that kind of design space.

I actually like Tough Guy/Body quite a bit. It goes a long way at remedying how much of a detriment being large and having bad movement is in a game like Smash. It's nice to limit the effectiveness of spamming weak projectiles to control neutral and to make it slightly more difficult to contest Bowser/Kazuya when they do finally get close enough to do damage. I hope Ganondorf and Dedede have it next game. Mewtwo and Ridley could probably also benefit from it, but it might be a little much with their speed and movement.

The issue is that the game doesn't really telegraph Tough Guy well. If you don't know about Super Armour as a general concept, it seems like sometimes Bowser and Kazuya just break the game by not taking hitstun or knockback. There should be some visual indication (like glowing red or something, I don't really know beyond that) that Tough Guy is activating. It communicates to the player immediately both that some unique mechanic is coming into play and (if the player knows about Tough Guy) that an attack doesn't break through the armour.

 

[Guynamednelson]

What do you guys think about Tough Guy/Tough Body?

I personally think it's kind of a dumb mechanic. Like, it's supposed to make Bowser and Kazuya seem more intimidating, but making it so that a bunch of random attacks have 0 hitstun at seemingly random percentages isn't intimidating as it is annoying. Some of these are really silly too, like Bowser Tough guying uncharged Hero's Bow, but only if he's at 7% or less, unless he's crouching in which case it extends to 25%.

Interestingly, I had been given the impression that Tough Body was better than Tough Guy, but it very much isn't. It's still kinda weird that a fighting game character was given this mechanic though. Also, it's kinda weird design-wise that both characters with the passive armor are the ones that use armor and intangibility the most liberally throughout their moveset. I guess the devs just really wanted their attacks be incontestable, but I feel like there's a better way to go about that kind of design space.

Okay on Bowser, annoying on Kazuya.

And have I mentioned yet that Kazuya would be more Tekken-accurate if he wasn't a Tough Guy? Because Kazuya would be more Tekken-accurate if he wasn't a Tough Guy.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Now I kinda want Sakurai to pick Omega over Shadow/Tails/Knuckles and watch the world burn.

Even if Shadow is one of my most wanted, I'd gladly accept Omega in his place.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Tough guy is fine on Bowser, he's a pretty honest character overall.
Kazuya however just gets too much from tanking through any attack and 0-to-desth'ing you.

 

[ninjahmos]

Tough Guy/Tough Body probably works well enough on Bowser, but not on Kazuya. I think that Ganondorf and Dedede could possibly benefit from it for the next game.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Tough Guy/Tough Body probably works well enough on Bowser, but not on Kazuya. I think that Ganondorf and Dedede could possibly benefit from it for the next game.

I'd say give it to Dedede as well next game. Partially because it'll make him even more like a Kirby boss which would be cool, and partially because he needs it.

 

[ScrubReborn]

Mewtwo and Ridley could probably also benefit from it, but it might be a little much with their speed and movement.

Ridley maybe but Mewtwo? Part of his Smash identity is being frail, IDK how they could explain tough body for him.