Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Kirby Dragons]

You know, between all of this and the earlier 4th paty talk, I'm kind of curious... is Love Live eligible for Smash Bros.? I'm pretty sure The IdolM@ster is possible (Unlikely as all get-out, but still possible). But Love Live... it's been a long while since I've looked into the series, so I forgot what it started off as...

I did some research, and it looks like it started in a magazine, but I can't tell what form it started in. But after that, it became a manga, then an anime, then a game. So unfortunately not eligible.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well you get them in gritty detective stories to so I say yuh huh

I don't see how Emio being a VN game means it can't be horror.

If anything, a certain game out there very much proved it's possible to bring out horror vibes from a game with nothing but text and pngs. One that may or may not involve poems and a school club.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

From what I understand, there's a decent amount of Japanese visual novels that are basically horror stories with a few having mystery elements to them.

Emio is notable just for being by Nintendo and actually getting localized to the West.

 

[fogbadge]

I don't see how Emio being a VN game means it can't be horror.

If anything, a certain game out there very much proved it's possible to bring out horror vibes from a game with nothing but text and pngs. One that may or may not involve poems and a school club.

you’re right being from a VN doesn’t mean it can’t be horror. it not being a horror story does that

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I don't see how Emio being a VN game means it can't be horror.

If anything, a certain game out there very much proved it's possible to bring out horror vibes from a game with nothing but text and pngs. One that may or may not involve poems and a school club.

And just what are you implying, M-[real name censored]?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

View attachment 395797


And just what are you implying, M-[real name censored]?

That I'm no longer playing this game if you're gonna doxx me

 

[Speed Weed]

Chunsoft's Otogirisou, AKA the progenitor of novel games as we know them, is a horror-themed story. The two have been closely tied ever since the beginning.

though either way, everything I've heard from ppl who have played Emio has indicated to me that having him be playable in Smash would be a bad idea regardless

 

[Ivander]

though either way, everything I've heard from ppl who have played Emio has indicated to me that having him be playable in Smash would be a bad idea regardless

Probably because while they have an urban legend/creepypasta vibe to them, they are still just a normal serial killer. They may look cool from a design and mystery standpoint, but they're no Slenderman, Sonic.exe or whatever horror being with powers.

That's only my interpretation from the before-release descriptions from Sakamoto's interview regarding the game. I still have not played the game yet, so I don't know anything about who they are under the mask and whatnot.

 

[fogbadge]

Chunsoft's Otogirisou, AKA the progenitor of novel games as we know them, is a horror-themed story. The two have been closely tied ever since the beginning.

though either way, everything I've heard from ppl who have played Emio has indicated to me that having him be playable in Smash would be a bad idea regardless

that doesn’t mean every visual novel is though

as for your second part, nah it just doesn’t feel right to have him be playable

 

[Speed Weed]

that doesn’t mean every visual novel is though

Honestly I kinda came into the conversation with only half the context so I'd probably take back what I said, doesn't really have much to do with the points made here. Apologies

 

[CommanderZaktan]

It's kind of a pity that Eternal Darkness and Alexandra Roivas is so downplayed these days because she (or possibly Pious Augustus) could make for a great first party horror character. Between the weapons as basic/smash attacks and spells as specials, there's a lot that could be done concept wise.

Maybe Pious as a summoner fighter with magic using one of the 3 artifacts.

 

[Louie G.]

Have to say given the plethora of great musical Nintendo characters available to us I would still be a bit frustrated if Pauline won out. As much as I love Jump Up Super Star, it’d feel sour if this one moment from Odyssey was what inspired them to finally explore this archetype when I’ve supported a Rhythm Heaven character for a decade, Splatoon has several viable options - any of the idols, plus Octavio - and KK Slider has been pumping out hits since 2000.

I’ve cooled off on her because frankly, her mayor outfit with the hat is pretty cool and I like the idea of using the micstand as kind of a staff. There are ways to make her fun… but if you want a musician I just think you’ve got a lot of equally viable candidates who handily trump her in some way or another. I’d even always kinda wanted to see Kass whack people with a stretchy accordion. Or idk, Barbara the Bat? Certainly a stretch but I kinda like her too.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'm still hoping that we get a Rhythm Heaven character.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Also (ironically fitting with the musician discussion going on), don't know if it got discussed after the Mario Wonder update last night, but Nintendo of Japan's Twitter mentioned the next update would be next week and mentioned games would be added "from time to time." I think weekly isn't bad for it as long as they stick to it, but I feel like they could probably get away with semi-weekly updates considering how much there is to work with here.

 

[Kirbeh]

Have to say given the plethora of great musical Nintendo characters available to us I would still be a bit frustrated if Pauline won out. As much as I love Jump Up Super Star, it’d feel sour if this one moment from Odyssey was what inspired them to finally explore this archetype when I’ve supported a Rhythm Heaven character for a decade, Splatoon has several viable options - any of the idols, plus Octavio - and KK Slider has been pumping out hits since 2000.

I’ve cooled off on her because frankly, her mayor outfit with the hat is pretty cool and I like the idea of using the micstand as kind of a staff. There are ways to make her fun… but if you want a musician I just think you’ve got a lot of equally viable candidates who handily trump her in some way or another. I’d even always kinda wanted to see Kass whack people with a stretchy accordion. Or idk, Barbara the Bat? Certainly a stretch but I kinda like her too.

Whose to say Pauline would stop a Splatoon idol or Rhythm Heaven character from getting in too though? (I was going to add Barbara again but she really is a pretty out there longshot.)

While they all have some ties to music, I'd imagine they'd still all be handled pretty differently. I personally don't see Pauline as a solely music/rhythm based character to be perfectly honest.

I could see her pulling a Rise and using the mic stand for some attacks but I'd say she'd probably a more standard character with some music references as opposed to having an actual rhythm mechanic.

Same for any of the idols. I still see them as primarily taking from actual gameplay with different weapons with the idol stuff being secondary. (Bring back long taunts to add some dancing there.)

And even if they did lean more into the music/rhythm aspect, I still think you could easily justify any combination or all three.

Mario and Splatoon are easy sells for new fighters after all. We just have to hope rhythm heaven is still on their radar.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I don't see how Emio being a VN game means it can't be horror.

As a story, Emio is a thriller, not a horror. Sometimes they look alike but it's two different genres.
As a videogame, it's not even close to being a survival horror.

It has one (very effective) jump scare and a morbid killer, but it's not horror.

 

[NintenRob]

You know what would be neat, if Sakurai saw Pauline and went "Broadway, the fighter."

Like his vision for Pauline would be to have her fighting style be akin to a musical theatre performer. Move across the stage like it's part of her choreography. Maybe New Donkers can be part of her ensemble cast. Let her fight like she's giving a performance.

 

[chocolatejr9]

You know what would be neat, if Sakurai saw Pauline and went "Broadway, the fighter."

Like his vision for Pauline would be to have her fighting style be akin to a musical theatre performer. Move across the stage like it's part of her choreography. Maybe New Donkers can be part of her ensemble cast. Let her fight like she's giving a performance.

My first thought reading this was "Princess Peach Showtime but without Peach". Not sure what that says about my thought process...

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'm gonna be honest, I've never gotten the hype for Pauline. At least as a Smash fighter.

If you want to see the character show up more in general after Odyssey brought her back after a long absence and made her more interesting as a character? I completely get that. There are tons of characters all throughout fictional media I like who've only shown up once or have limited screentime that I'd love to see show up again. I just don't think she has much to work with as playable fighter in SSB, especially compared to a lot of other Mario characters (most of whom admittedly have even less appearances than Pauline does).

It feels like the hype for Pauline to join Smash is primarily just there because Odyssey both brought her back and made her more popular.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Chunsoft's Otogirisou, AKA the progenitor of novel games as we know them, is a horror-themed story. The two have been closely tied ever since the beginning.

though either way, everything I've heard from ppl who have played Emio has indicated to me that having him be playable in Smash would be a bad idea regardless

Honestly im surprised he's allowed to exist as a character at all in current year, especially as a villain in a game.

Dont wanna talk about it much more because spoilers but i GUESS he could be an assist trophy which how he approaches his victims?

His whole thing is that he slowly approaches people standing alone and tries to make them laugh, if they laugh he leaves them alone but if they cry he kills them. I guess you could turn that into a weird assist trophy gimmick.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm gonna be honest, I've never gotten the hype for Pauline. At least as a Smash fighter.

If you want to see the character show up more in general after Odyssey brought her back after a long absence and made her more interesting as a character? I completely get that. There are tons of characters all throughout fictional media I like who've only shown up once or have limited screentime that I'd love to see show up again. I just don't think she has much to work with as playable fighter in SSB, especially compared to a lot of other Mario characters (most of whom admittedly have even less appearances than Pauline does).

It feels like the hype for Pauline to join Smash is primarily just there because Odyssey both brought her back and made her more popular.

I mean I could kinda see it just because she's been really heavily pushed in spinoffs (after Odyssey, she showed up in Tennis Aces, Tour, 8 Deluxe, Mario Golf: Super Rush, Mario Strikers Battle League, she was in the movie, and she was just recently in Mario Party Jamboree). I don't personally want her, but she does seem to be really heavily pushed ever since Odyssey, so I can understand why people might suggest her.

I do agree that I don't think she has very much to work with though, since in a lot of those spinoff appearances, she's kinda been coasting off of Jump Up Super Star lol

 

[PeridotGX]

The masks are associated with different stats? I thought Ogerpon had the same stats in each form.

They have the same BST, but they have stat affinitiee in other ways - and it's pretty consistently Teal is Fast, Hearthflame is Strong, Cornerstone is bulky, and wellspring is ???.

• Embody Aspect, as mentioned earlier, is the big one.
• Pokedex entries for ogerpon wearing it's masks mention their stat affinity.
• Their TCG cards also vaguely fit the pattern. Teal Mask can generate double energy and draws extra cards (which makes it and the game substantially faster), Hearthflame gets stronger the more damage it takes (meaning it has an extremely high ceiling), and Cornerstone is immune to some attacks

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Also (ironically fitting with the musician discussion going on), don't know if it got discussed after the Mario Wonder update last night, but Nintendo of Japan's Twitter mentioned the next update would be next week and mentioned games would be added "from time to time." I think weekly isn't bad for it as long as they stick to it, but I feel like they could probably get away with semi-weekly updates considering how much there is to work with here.

Also going along with this thing I mentioned earlier as a brief aside, since Mario & Luigi Brothership comes out next week, imagine if the update next week is the soundtracks for the previous games (since I don't expect Nintendo to drop a brand new game's soundtrack day 1 even with spoiler settings), so we end up getting like 5-7 new ones lol

 

[Louie G.]

Whose to say Pauline would stop a Splatoon idol or Rhythm Heaven character from getting in too though? (I was going to add Barbara again but she really is a pretty out there longshot.)

While they all have some ties to music, I'd imagine they'd still all be handled pretty differently. I personally don't see Pauline as a solely music/rhythm based character to be perfectly honest.

You're right of course, although I guess I like to think of batches of newcomers that are each thematically diverse. Obviously Pauline and say, KK Slider don't have much business playing like one another. But both of them service the "performer" role, and music is going to be a central throughline through their character. Whether or not it manifests into distinctly music based attacks is one thing - I think KK would be more likely to actually be playing music while Pauline would use it as a general aesthetic - but I'm just hesitant to believe we would see them explore this premise in multiple ways within the same game.

That is to say if any of these characters had been added in the past - say Chorus Kids made it into Smash 4 after all. Then obviously any of these guys are still on the table to be added now. It's moreso the close proximity of characters who are both thematically comparable and stem from a character premise that has yet to be explored at all. If we've gone 25 years and the closest thing we have to a musician character is Jigglypuff, then I'd say the likelihood of getting two of them at once feels pretty slim. Although admittedly I'm also trying to temper my own expectations, as a musical character in general is maybe the character archetype I'd like to see the most next time around, and IMO one of the most unfortunately absent from the roster as a whole.

I'm also inclined to say Pauline would cannibalize the odds of a Splatoon idol / duo specifically. Both would likely involve emphasis on dance moves / choreography, and use music as a backdrop but not necessarily the exclusive focus. It's easier to say someone like Chorus Kids could exist alongside Pauline, because I think their potential is just its own abstract thing altogether. But the showy performer type character has a pretty stark overlap here, and between say Marina and/or Pearl and Pauline I really think Splatoon should get the nod. It's a far more important part of that series, anyway.

It feels like the hype for Pauline to join Smash is primarily just there because Odyssey both brought her back and made her more popular.

Also not to disparage those who actually want Pauline, but I feel like you're misconstruing hype with general conversation here. Pauline is not an intensely popular request for Smash, she's just been popping up more frequently. So her recent prominence makes her someone worth keeping in mind, and talking about and maybe trying to see what can be done there. That seems to be where most of this comes from, less so any passionate movement in her favor.

Again, I'm not saying people don't want the character. I'm just saying she doesn't keep coming up because there's "hype" behind her, it's because she keeps showing up in Mario games and people are getting Rosalina flashbacks.

I'm still hoping that we get a Rhythm Heaven character.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Also not to disparage those who actually want Pauline, but I feel like you're misconstruing hype with general conversation here. Pauline is not an intensely popular request for Smash, she's just been popping up more frequently. So her recent prominence makes her someone worth keeping in mind, and talking about and maybe trying to see what can be done there. That seems to be where most of this comes from, less so any passionate movement in her favor.

Again, I'm not saying people don't want the character. I'm just saying she doesn't keep coming up because there's "hype" behind her, it's because she keeps showing up in Mario games and people are getting Rosalina flashbacks.

Maybe I could've chosen a better word for it, or worded my post better in general, but I'm honestly still inclined to disagree based on what I've seen, or at least what I can recall.

I've seen a decent amount of people really push for Pauline as a newcomer despite (what I think, at least) are her very limited moveset options. I won't deny that it's primarily because of her recent inclusions in Odyssey and numerous spin-offs, but those appearances have significantly increased her popularity as well.

Maybe I'm misremembering things, and I'll admit in advance that I could be completely wrong, here. But I can recall seeing a lot of support for Pauline, and while I still don't nor can I honestly blame anyone for wanting a character they like to join the series, I just personally don't fully understand the support I remember seeing for Pauline. If only because I can't envision her having a good moveset, nor much of a moveset concept for her at all.

 

[DarthEnderX]

it's like Funko pop, it stops mattering since it just ***** itself out to everyone

Exactly!

but let me ask you a related question: Do you play Soul Calibur, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, or King of Fighters? All of them have had guest characters originating from outside gaming.

Yes. And I hate it every time.

Unless it's a crossover game, I hate guest characters in general. I'd rather just have more of that series' characters instead.

If Monster Hunter ever gets into Smash, which weapon do you think they would use? The Great Sword?

Greatsword + Rathalos armor seems like the default character design.

I say Smash should add Joanna Dark at some point. She’s the closest thing to James Bond we can get.

I think Agent 47 feels more like Bond than Joanna does. Perfect Dark is too sci-fi.

So how does anyone feel about visual novel characters like Okabe from Steins;Gate’s eligibility for Smash?

Do you make choices? Or is it literally just reading a story?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

When did KOF have guest characters?

 

[DarthEnderX]

How do y'all feel about sorcerers?

I prefer Rogues.

When did KOF have guest characters?

Do you consider K9999 to be legally actionable Tetsuo?

that’s nothing, wait till you hear the deranged stuff my imagination comes up with

Every cool idea I ever had already became a game/movie/show.

If they felt like representing the genre, someone like Pyramid Head could be interesting.

He should be an AT.

Besides like Puzzle, horror and music games, Visual novels are the only genre not represented yet in smash by a playable character and I think that’s unfortunate.

Dr. Mario: "The ****?"

 

[Gengar84]

When did KOF have guest characters?

I’m referring to this:

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Again, I'm not saying people don't want the character. I'm just saying she doesn't keep coming up because there's "hype" behind her, it's because she keeps showing up in Mario games and people are getting Rosalina flashbacks.

Which is ironic as I remember bringing Rosalina up as someone to look out for as a darkhorse and there was a lot of pushback, yet I absolutely do not see at all Pauline having the same thing going for her in spite people literally jumping to her being a "lock" for Smash every single goddamn time she makes a spin-off appearance.


And considering Rosalina got in because of her major role in Galaxy and because of the moveset concept of being a puppeteer with Luma and not because "she appears in a lot of spinoffs, guys!" (of which she only had two Mario Karts to her name when the roster was decided).....

Not sure why people are trying to make connections to Rosalina that simply aren't there.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Which is ironic as I remember bringing Rosalina up as someone to look out for as a darkhorse and there was a lot of pushback, yet I absolutely do not see at all Pauline having the same thing going for her in spite people literally jumping to her being a "lock" for Smash every single goddamn time she makes a spin-off appearance.


And considering Rosalina got in because of her major role in Galaxy and because of the moveset concept of being a puppeteer with Luma and not because "she appears in a lot of spinoffs, guys!" (of which she only had two Mario Karts to her name when the roster was decided).....




Not sure why people are trying to make connections to Rosalina that simply aren't there.

It's because they are, just not ones that are actually relevant to her chances. They are, however, the most visible correlations.

I think Pauline will end up in the "briefly considered, but quickly dismissed" category since while she's become a notable character, there's at least 3 other Mario characters that have a better case to be made for them.

 

[NintenRob]

I just think Pauline compliments the main cast well (in regards to Mario spinoffs). With Pauline, you've got four main male human characters and four main female human characters. It creates a nice symmetry. Like I did a round of Bowser Kaboom Squad with Mario, Luigi, Wario, Waluigi, Peach, Daisy, Rosalina and Pauline. It just felt right.

Like if we got both Waluigi and Pauline in Smash Bros, I can imagine doing same frequently with 8 player Smash.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

First: It's "complements" not "compliments".
Second: I think even Candy Kong deserves a playable spot.

 

[Oracle Link]

...Isn't his name VideoSPIEL-Man which is why he's abbreviated as VSM?

That aside, if he has a webcomic, I don't get how calling him a webcomic character is inaccurate when you're calling him a video game character with no video game.

I have characters I'd like to center a video game around too, but I'm holding off until hopefully I can do something with them in the future lol

I could do that but considering i have like 20 Instalments Planned No that would be a dumb idea!

I mean I dunno man if there’s a book that has an in-universe video game mascot that doesn’t then make that fictional character an actual video game mascot.

I’m not trying to pick on you but I’m just saying, calling your character something like Lord Video, Duke of Games doesn’t automatically mean they qualify for Smash. They’ve gotta actually originate from a video game.

...Isn't his name VideoSPIEL-Man which is why he's abbreviated as VSM?

That aside, if he has a webcomic, I don't get how calling him a webcomic character is inaccurate when you're calling him a video game character with no video game.

I have characters I'd like to center a video game around too, but I'm holding off until hopefully I can do something with them in the future lol

Videospiel means Videogame thought i translated it!

Except he was originally planned as a videogame!
I agree someone like lets say Wreck it Ralph doesnt count!
But creating Videogames (especially like 20) IS almost impossible if you are alone! Especially if you are very untalented, easily overwhelmed and want to produce a good game!

True i couldve **** out an awful game with bad gameplay, no story and stock music but i didnt think that made sense i bhad a very specific vision for the game version WHICH I CANT DO ALONE

After creating VSM for a playground game i REALLY wanted to make him a GAme for 12 Years straight! Say what you will about his current state
But if i do make a game he should qualify for smash in my opinion! Sure hes too small for smash currently but if i do make a game and it gets Big Why Shouldnt he be in!

His entire DNA is Videogame based (okay and hes based on me so i guess he could be 5th Party which would be a fine counterargument)

HEck im not even saying VSM has to be in smash im saying this GENERALLY: "If a character is indie and had to be turrned from videoagame into a diffrent Medium for the lack of ressources than they Should in theory qualify for smash"

Again Videogames a group efforts and if you dont have a group Its almost impossible to make a good game!
Remember TOBY FRIGGIN FOX needed Help Expecting someone like me to do it is ridcoulous!

Also this is my last post in this Disscusion because arguing 3 or more people against 1 is incredibly tiring!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Guys, I don't know why you're even bothering to argue with him. His OC isn't gonna get added to Smash, even if it WAS a VG character.

With Pauline, you've got four main male human characters and four main female human characters.

Rosalina ain't human. She's some kind of Outer God.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Guys, I don't know why you're even bothering to argue with him. His OC isn't gonna get added to Smash, even if it WAS a VG character.

Rosalina ain't human. She's some kind of Outer God.

It's never actually stated she's any kind of god. As far as we know, she's just a powerful human with magic.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's never actually stated she's any kind of god. As far as we know, she's just a powerful human with magic.

She also doesn't necessarily have godlike powers, as the power to create universes belongs to the Lumas. That ending scene in Super Mario Galaxy does make her feel powerful, but it could have just been a big illusion spell.

Then again while it's not cannon, Super Smash Bros. put galaxies in her dress so maybe there is something to that whole god thing.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

I’m referring to this:

View attachment 395802

Jeez nuts! Crossovers are really going wild these days.

Nintendo has to pull something really big out of the hat for the next Smash Bros.
I wonder if they can manage that without breaking the "only videogame genarated characters" rule

 

[fogbadge]

Videospiel means Videogame thought i translated it!

Except he was originally planned as a videogame!
I agree someone like lets say Wreck it Ralph doesnt count!
But creating Videogames (especially like 20) IS almost impossible if you are alone! Especially if you are very untalented, easily overwhelmed and want to produce a good game!

True i couldve **** out an awful game with bad gameplay, no story and stock music but i didnt think that made sense i bhad a very specific vision for the game version WHICH I CANT DO ALONE

After creating VSM for a playground game i REALLY wanted to make him a GAme for 12 Years straight! Say what you will about his current state
But if i do make a game he should qualify for smash in my opinion! Sure hes too small for smash currently but if i do make a game and it gets Big Why Shouldnt he be in!

His entire DNA is Videogame based (okay and hes based on me so i guess he could be 5th Party which would be a fine counterargument)

HEck im not even saying VSM has to be in smash im saying this GENERALLY: "If a character is indie and had to be turrned from videoagame into a diffrent Medium for the lack of ressources than they Should in theory qualify for smash"

Again Videogames a group efforts and if you dont have a group Its almost impossible to make a good game!
Remember TOBY FRIGGIN FOX needed Help Expecting someone like me to do it is ridcoulous!

Also this is my last post in this Disscusion because arguing 3 or more people against 1 is incredibly tiring!

dude you need to chill. take it from someone who’s been in the same position as you, you gotta let this go. being creative rarely works the way you want it to but if you love your characters and stories you can still be proud of what form they take even if it isn’t what you had in mind in the first place

 

[cashregister9]

I think Pauline is cool and you could do alot of original stuff with her, you don't really need to give her a super gimmicky moveset, You could just have it be instrument or music note themed.

any comparisons to a Splatoon Idol or Rhythm Heaven character is IMO, Overthinking things way too hard.