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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Hmm. So I guess a fairly reasonable rule would be that if a character's personality clashes with too much of the base fighter's moveset, they need to be regular clones as well.

Perhaps Shadow would be a good example? I don't think he's able to Spin Dash, and while that hasn't stopped Dark Samus from Morph Balling around, it's also hard to picture him doing his forward smash, forward tilt, or down smash.
Yeah, some moves just don't mesh well, since he uses Karate Chops and a different kind of kick. It's not that he couldn't do them either way, but it's a bit more awkward. That said, they've been emphasizing his Chaos Powers moreso than ever, so a regular clone might be more likely at this point.

And indeed. Some characters can't pull off certain animations well. It can also depend how much work is needed. Ken is also an outlier due to "he's the original clone fighter", so he feels kind of like the label isn't really that accurate(though he does follow the core rule, and is surprisingly less different than people think), but still. I doubt we'll see anything Ken-like for more Echoes. Chrom-like, though? Could totally see it.
 
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Gorgonzales

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I wanted to bring up Plants Vs. Zombies in the discussion and even though it isn't a pure mobile game, I still feel it's heavily associated with mobile devices, so here I go.

PvZ is kind of weird to think about because it's a juggernaut of a franchise that frequently gets overlooked. Everyone knows what PvZ is, it's cultural impact is undeniable (I keep seeing memes about PvZ1 to this day. Not even the other games, just PvZ1) and from what I've seen it still sparks a fair share of discussions online. It's a well-known series with a big following and a debut title that's undeniably stood the test of time.

With all of this in mind, it's kind of eye-opening to me how seldom it's brought up in Smash discussion. I really would like to think someone like Crazy Dave has a better chance than most people let on, but I have a hunch that PvZ is a series that isn't really on the Smash team's radar and that's why nobody really talks about it. I can't blame them either; none of the mainline titles past 1 are on consoles, and not even the Garden Warfare spinoffs (excluding Battle for Neighborville if that counts) have come to Nintendo consoles.

Which is a shame because I love the gameplay and characters. I'm sure that if Crazy Dave got a huge fan-push like Banjo or Sora then I could definitely see him happening, but I can't see a campaign like that happening any time soon since everyone's eyes seem to be on other characters.
 
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RodNutTakin

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The main thing is that in spite of its popularity, Plants vs. Zombies is pretty much bubbled away from a lot of the video game industry. It is like Gorgonzales said; barely any of the titles are on home consoles, the series targets a mobile game-like audience (bringing along a further disconnect), and as far as I know, the series hasn't really leaned into collaborations with other series at all. It also doesn't help that the game's two direct sequels have not been as favorably recieved compared to the original.
Compare all of this with Minecraft, which is a game that I would actually argue its audience overlaps farily well with PvZ's. Minecraft has been on consoles for a majority of its lifespan and has performed well on them (the Xbox 360 port in particular is what I'd attribute a good chunk of the game's success to), the game has done a lot of collaborations past and present (The Mario Mash-up Pack, the Pac-Man, Mega Man X and Sonic collaborations, various other crossover skin packs, elements from the game appearing in other titles like Super Meat Boy, The Stanley Parable, Borderlands 2 etc.), and the game itself has managed to hold its popularity and success for almost 15 years at this point, on top of having a few spinoffs that have come and gone.
I know it may seem unfair to compare any game to Minecraft, but the main point I'm illustrating is that even though both games have a demographic overlap, PvZ is a series that I feel has not done enough to warrant either being on the Smash team's radar, or having a natural vocal fanbase for Smash, and that mainly has to do with most people only really caring for the original game and sometimes Garden Warfare. When I people still making memes about the game, a lot of the time it feels like it's more reminiscing on the game as a beloved thing from the past, instead of something that's still trending with gamers today. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but even outside of a Smash context, I don't really see people pushing for a new PvZ "like the good old days" outside of modding 2 to be less intrusive with unlocks.
 
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ScrubReborn

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Perhaps Shadow would be a good example? I don't think he's able to Spin Dash, and while that hasn't stopped Dark Samus from Morph Balling around, it's also hard to picture him doing his forward smash, forward tilt, or down smash.
I don’t feel like it’s be hard to make those moves fit him. Like f-smash and d-smash, I imagine they’d rein in the charging animation to make it look less exaggerated (maybe having him hold back his hand instead of winding up for f smash, which would be no less extreme a change than Lucina’s different Shield Breaker animation).

Granted I can easily see him being a… well, not echo, cause with how much he’s getting pushed now + his Smash fandom clout, I could actually see him being their main pick for a new Sonic rep.

(tho highkey Sonic’s d-smash sucks and it should get changed anyways lol. Old d-smash better x100)
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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(tho highkey Sonic’s d-smash sucks and it should get changed anyways lol. Old d-smash better x100)
His down smash from Brawl is definitely better from an appeal standpoint, but it'd be best if Sonic didn't have more than one move where he turns into a blue sphere. You can distinguish between neutral air, up smash, Homing Attack, and the two that should just be the same move due to changes in trajectory, but it's still not that great a design. If we were to give him something else, my vote would be for a break dance kick. Not like Mario's Break Dance Kick, but a similar concept.
 

CrusherMania1592

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I'm personally not a fan of Fortnite myself, but it does have the popularity to get something in the next Smash Bros. If not a fighter, I can expect an AT and/or stage at least.

I don't think any live service game should be repped in Smash due to the possibility that they won't exist in the future, so future Smash players will have no way to play their game of origin. Same goes for mobile games.
Splatoon says hi

:ultinkling::ultinklingboy::ultinkling::ultinklingboy::ultinkling::ultinklingboy::ultinkling::ultinklingboy:

Can't wait for Pokémon Stadium, but instead of transformations, the sky box is just an image of your house off of Google Maps. :4pacman:
That would be the greatest moment of Smash Bros ever lmao

Mobile games should be represented in Smash in some way.
While there are some that I can see as full fighters, I rather see them as mostly through stages, assist trophies, music or Mii costumes. Granted, there is music from Minecraft Earth and FE Heroes, but my point still stands.
Not a bad idea!

It wouldn't surprise me if they don't do anything other than Pokemon Go or Mario Bros/Kart due to being the very few Nintendo games on mobile atm
 
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Pupp135

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Regarding Shadow as an echo, I could see it happening if he was out-prioritized by other unique fighters beforehand but would still be something that the developers would want to implement in a similar vein to Melee Ganondorf or Dark Samus.

While a sequel to the Subspace Emissary is highly improbable, how would everyone feel if the next Adventure Mode is like The Great Maze specifically where the player experiences a platforming adventure and fights corrupted versions of fighters as well as bosses, but the player only starts with a handful of fighters where new ones join as their corrupted version is defeated, and locations are based on different gaming universes. Like The Great Maze, there are intermediate save points. Because this is a more condensed adventure, there would probably be fewer cutscenes.
 
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Perkilator

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While a sequel to the Subspace Emissary is highly improbable, how would everyone feel if the next Adventure Mode is like The Great Maze specifically where the player experiences a platforming adventure and fights corrupted versions of fighters as well as bosses, but the player only starts with a handful of fighters where new ones join as their corrupted version is deleted, and locations are based on different gaming universes. Like The Great Maze, there are intermediate save points. Because this is a more condensed adventure, there would probably be fewer cutscenes.
I've been playing a lot of Magolor Epilogue and it made me want an Adventure Mode where you travel an overworld roughly the size of Smash Run's map, and you enter portals that take you through different levels.
 

Wonder Smash

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I’m not sure yet but I’m not opposed. I’ll probably at least play any future River City Girls games they make. I’m really enjoying both of them so far. My favorite character design is probably Marian but Misako’s still my favorite character-wise. Marian’s great there too though.
Since you like Misako, have you also considered playing River City Girls Zero?
 
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Gorgonzales

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...where the player experiences a platforming adventure and fights corrupted versions of fighters as well as bosses, but the player only starts with a handful of fighters where new ones join as their corrupted version is defeated, and locations are based on different gaming universes.
I get the corrupted fighters in Brawl were just greenish-yellow textured character models, but by gosh one of the coolest things to see in Smash would be tailor-made "evil fighter" designs for every member of the cast. Basically what Fusionfall does with the villainous Fusion forms of characters, with every character having a twisted clone that follows a set of uniting design principles (green skin, muted palettes, red eyes and accents, etc).


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This was the coolest thing ever to me as a kid, and I think an idea like this could still hold merit in other crossovers. Seeing the CN cast re-interpreted in a crooked way like this was awesome, not to mention my favorite fusions were the ones with mutations (like Fusion Wilt inexplicably having cybernetic attachments and a 0 on his torso, and Prof. Utionium having tentacles erupt from his back.)

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Yeah, these examples reek of that mid-2000's edginess, but you get what I'm trying to go for here. Having evil fighter designs alone would satisfy me, but I'd love gameplay changes even more, even if it only applies to a select handful of fighters. Imagine a Simon clone with bat wings granting him multiple jumps, or Kirby clones with the ability to split themselves into smaller copies that swarm you like in Mass Attack, or a comically ironic hulking and brutish Isabelle boss clone. There's a lot of creative stuff you could do with an idea like this.

I'm not counting on something like this happening in Smash, ever (it'd be very time consuming to make in the event the roster still exceeds 50 or so characters) and I'd imagine a handful of third parties wouldn't be on board with Smash making weird experimental evil versions of their characters, but could you imagine?
 

Noipoi

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I get the corrupted fighters in Brawl were just greenish-yellow textured character models, but by gosh one of the coolest things to see in Smash would be tailor-made "evil fighter" designs for every member of the cast. Basically what Fusionfall does with the villainous Fusion forms of characters, with every character having a twisted clone that follows a set of uniting design principles (green skin, muted palettes, red eyes and accents, etc).


View attachment 392241View attachment 392242View attachment 392243

This was the coolest thing ever to me as a kid, and I think an idea like this could still hold merit in other crossovers. Seeing the CN cast re-interpreted in a crooked way like this was awesome, not to mention my favorite fusions were the ones with mutations (like Fusion Wilt inexplicably having cybernetic attachments and a 0 on his torso, and Prof. Utionium having tentacles erupt from his back.)

View attachment 392244View attachment 392245 View attachment 392246View attachment 392247

Yeah, these examples reek of that mid-2000's edginess, but you get what I'm trying to go for here. Having evil fighter designs alone would satisfy me, but I'd love gameplay changes even more, even if it only applies to a select handful of fighters. Imagine a Simon clone with bat wings granting him multiple jumps, or Kirby clones with the ability to split themselves into smaller copies that swarm you like in Mass Attack, or a comically ironic hulking and brutish Isabelle boss clone. There's a lot of creative stuff you could do with an idea like this.

I'm not counting on something like this happening in Smash, ever (it'd be very time consuming to make in the event the roster still exceeds 50 or so characters) and I'd imagine a handful of third parties wouldn't be on board with Smash making weird experimental evil versions of their characters, but could you imagine?
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Y’know what?

You’re speaking my goddamn language
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Imagine that in World of Light. In addition to the glowey eyes, the Galeem'd characters are in very angelic regalia with a wing motif, and the Dharkon'd characters are in more stereotypically evil outfits that are covered in reddish purple thorns.

Whelp...I guess I'm adding whatever this kids show was called to the list of things I saw once years ago and somehow still remember.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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I wanted to bring up Plants Vs. Zombies in the discussion and even though it isn't a pure mobile game, I still feel it's heavily associated with mobile devices, so here I go.

PvZ is kind of weird to think about because it's a juggernaut of a franchise that frequently gets overlooked. Everyone knows what PvZ is, it's cultural impact is undeniable (I keep seeing memes about PvZ1 to this day. Not even the other games, just PvZ1) and from what I've seen it still sparks a fair share of discussions online. It's a well-known series with a big following and a debut title that's undeniably stood the test of time.

With all of this in mind, it's kind of eye-opening to me how seldom it's brought up in Smash discussion. I really would like to think someone like Crazy Dave has a better chance than most people let on, but I have a hunch that PvZ is a series that isn't really on the Smash team's radar and that's why nobody really talks about it. I can't blame them either; none of the mainline titles past 1 are on consoles, and not even the Garden Warfare spinoffs (excluding Battle for Neighborville if that counts) have come to Nintendo consoles.

Which is a shame because I love the gameplay and characters. I'm sure that if Crazy Dave got a huge fan-push like Banjo or Sora then I could definitely see him happening, but I can't see a campaign like that happening any time soon since everyone's eyes seem to be on other characters.
I love Plants VS Zombies. I agree the character should be Crazy Dave, he could get one of those unconventional movesets that are really faithful to the mechanics of the original games. He'd spend different amounts of solar energy to be able to use each of his plants, and he'd be able to plant sunflowers around the stage to speed up the energy production. And he could plant a nut next to a sunflower to shield it from attacks, or a catapult on the edge of the stage that shoots from afar... Then his opponent would have to play like one of the zombies, trying to destroy the plants first, in order to dimantle his offense and strip him out of solar energy, and then go after Crazy Dave himself.
Plus while they're in talks with PopCap they could add a Peggle Assist Trophy or something. And the PvZ music! It's low-key one of my most wanteds.

But yeah, I can't really see it actually happen.
First of all, the game is popular, but there's a lot of popular games, and for Western stuff in particular the barrier of entry is higher.
Then, it just feels like the series wouldn't be on Nintendo's radar for something like this. I'm not sure if it's due to the fans or to Sakurai's tastes (probably both), but Smash focuses pretty intensively on classic/console gaming, with Steve pretty much being the only exception. Even now that the floodgates for Western gaming have been open, fan demand has been directed towards stuff like Crash, Doom or Halo that all fall pretty firmly in that same camp.
Of course they can expand from that, but if they want a character from the mobile sphere I'm sure they'd go after Angry Birds first. It's both more popular and owned by Sega.

I'm sad that there's no fan push for PvZ, but it's understandable. The series just doesn't operate in Nintendo's usual camp, especially in regards to Smash collaborations.
Maybe if Angry Birds (or something) actually gets a character and fans realize that mobile gaming is a thing, I could see PvZ starting to get a decent push.
But as of now, eeeh...
 
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RodNutTakin

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Even with it being under Sega's thumb, I still feel like it's going to be a long road for anyone wanting to see Angry Birds in Smash.
The series isn't outright dead, far from it, but like with PvZ there really hasn't been any major resurge in interest for the series after the initial wave of popularity settled down. Even when Rovio got bought by Sega, the reactions were more of an "Oh, huh. Interesting" than anything.
If it's worth anything, I would say that it would get picked if the Smash team for one reason or another wanted to specifically add a mobile game series that isn't theirs, but as it currently stands, that's not something I think they're in any rush to fill out soon. As the post above me said, Smash mainly targets series with primary console and handheld presence, and PC stuff may continue to get some of that share if Smash continues broadening its scope of represented series, but I think as it stands currently, we are a ways away from mobile stuff beyond Nintendo's own apps becoming part of the equation.
 

SharkLord

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Hmm. So I guess a fairly reasonable rule would be that if a character's personality clashes with too much of the base fighter's moveset, they need to be regular clones as well.

Perhaps Shadow would be a good example? I don't think he's able to Spin Dash, and while that hasn't stopped Dark Samus from Morph Balling around, it's also hard to picture him doing his forward smash, forward tilt, or down smash.
Shadow can Spin Dash just fine. Most Sonic characters can, actually. The problem comes from stuff like the donkey kick, the splits, and the wind-up punch, like you mentioned. Sonic's always had a carefree attitude to him, so he can get away with more implausible movements. Shadow, on the other hand, is serious and straightforward. Shadow having Sonic's specials would work, even if it'd be a little lackluster, but when it comes to normals I just can't see Shadow goofing around the way Sonic does. He'd have to be a semi-clone at best.

That said, they did let Ken be an Echo despite being a clear semiclone, so who knows. Maybe they'll loosen up on what it means to be an Echo next game.
 

Will

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Wonder Smash

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Ivander

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Yup yup. Like it or not, Emio is a lock for Smash 6. He's in.
I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that it can change expressions, but I'll certainly see what happens with this.

Also, if this is a 1st Party Nintendo horror title, Nintendo certainly has been a wild card this year. They have revealed a Zelda game where you play as Zelda, a Marvel vs Capcom Collection, a Metroid Prime 4 trailer and now a potential 1st-Party horror title. We're getting quite close to that "When pigs fly" moniker for Nintendo, aren't we?
 

Gengar84

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Not sure if anyone else here watches WWE but I was reminded of those recent Wyatt Sick6 promo videos with this trailer. I know the old VHS trope in horror very much predates them but the promos are fresh in my head.
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

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Emio for Smash??

Obviously reminds me of Smile, the movie. It sits firmly in the top 3 of horror movies that made me **** my pants the most, probably straight up top 1. Smile 2 comes out later this year and I'm not sure how I'm going to manage it, lol.

All this to say, I'm interested.
 

Stratos

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For weeks I've been thinking about what symbols these characters would have if they came as newcomers, and there are so many of them I don't know let alone imagine. Here are the characters I mention:
Euden (Dragalia Lost)
Zethia (Dragalia Lost)
Tin Star (Tin Star)
Freyr (Zangeki no Reginleiv)
Freyja (Zangeki no Reginleiv)
Zael (The Last Story)
Aeron (Pandora's Tower)
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment series)
Freddy Fazbear (Five Nights at Freddy's)
Kevin (Karkurenbo Battle Monster Tactics)
Haohmaru (Samurai Shodown series)
Kyo Kusanagi (The King of Fighters series)
Alexandra Roivas (Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem)
John Raimi (Geist)
Raymond Bryce (Disaster: Day of Crisis)
Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot series)
Spyro the Dragon (Spyro series)
Queen Azarel (Warlocked)
Chief Zog (Warlocked)
Fighter Hayabusa (Pro Wrestling)
Conker (Conker Series)
Chris Redfield (Resident Evil series)
Albert Wesker (Resident Evil series)
Nemesis T-Type (Resident Evil series)
Pyramid Head (Silent Hill series)
Edward Carnby (Alone in the Dark Series)
Reiji Arisu (Namco × Capcom, Project X Zone series)
Dante (Devil May Cry series)
Dillon (Dillon's Rolling Western series)
Yooka & Laylee (Yooka-Laylee series)
Ivan (Devil's Third)
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider series)
Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear series)
Adol Christin (Ys series)
Protagonist (The Glory of Heracles)
Heracles (Glory of Heracles)
Protagonist (Famicom Detective Club series)
Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club series)
Bubble Dragons (Bubble Bobble series)
Solaire of Astora (Dark Souls series)
Henry Fleming (Code Name: S.T.E.A.M.)
Doomguy (Doom series)
Mirian (Bloodstained Series)
Crono (Chrono series)
Aisya (ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat)
Mike Jones (StarTropics series)
Master Chief (Halo series)
Ragna the Bloodedge (BlazBlue Series)
Black Panther (Not the Marvel superhero, the cybernetic Black Panther from Konami's arcade video game Black Panther)
Akira Howard (Astral Chain)
Mr. Stevenson (Gumshoe)
Daitouryou (Nintendo hanafuda cards)
Tengu (Nintendo hanafuda cards)
Mini Kangaroo (Mini Game series)
Nester (Nintendo Power Magazine)
Kevin Keene (Captain N: The Game Master)
Hornet (USA Daytona series)
John Marston (Red Dead series)
Dr. Lobe (Big Brain Academy series)
Joanna Dark (Perfect Dark Series)
Ando Kensaku (And-Kensaku)
Centipede (Centipede Series)
Ashley Robbins (Another Code series)
Kyle Hyde (Hotel Dusk series)
Goku (Yūyūki)
Sukapon (Joy Mecha Fight)
Mike Anderson (Battle Clash Series)
Kageshina Kurabe (Nintendoji)
Sakura Samurai (Sakura Samurai: The Art of the Sword)
F-Type (Stunt Race FX)
Harry's Handler (Teleroboxer)
Ray MK II (Custom Robo Series)
Biker's Excitebike (Excite series)
Muddy Mole (Mole Mania)
Lloyd Irving (Tales series)
Akira Yuki (Virtua Fighter series)
Mio Amakura (Fatal Frame Series)
Mayu Amakura (Fatal Frame series)
Fulgore (Killer Instinct series)
Pokkle (GiFTPiA)
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