Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

So when do you think we'll learn more about Emio?

Probably in a September Direct.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I suspect Nintendo also has very specific expectations for letting studios handle certain IP.'s.

The lack of any new Donkey Kong games in the last 10 years is likely due to the company not simply seeing any development house ideally suited or available to do anything with the franchise (especially when Retro was given the task of focusing on rebuilding Prime 4 from ground up).

 

[Garteam]

How likely is Crash bandicoot for smash 6?

I think he's the most likely western third party, period.

Yeah, Crash Team Rumble went about as well as the Hindenberg and he's not as demanded, but he dominated the Fighter's Pass era from beginning to end. Only Doom Slayer did nearly as well. N. Sane Trilogy also sold 10 million copies, which is an absurd success beyond 97% single-player console games' wildest dreams. It's clear there's still a pretty big market for Crash generally. There's also the matter of Crash's importance as the PSX's de facto mascot, Crash being one of the few western games to truly break into the Japanese market, and Crash's general moveset potential.

I still think he'll be DLC because negotiations and development for non-Japanese characters takes awhile, but I think Crash is in a really good spot going into the next Smash.

 

[NintenRob]

I can see emio being the next controversial character.


"They'd never have a horror character."

"His Moveset potential is too vague." (Because the best horror leaves things hidden, which I anticipate this will do)

"Nintendo doesn't want to promote it alongside their other IPs" (it wasn't in the June direct, just a standalone video that is age restricted)


Edit: just to be clear, these aren't my opinions. Just counterarguments I see popping up

 

[Swamp Sensei]

"They'd never have a horror character."

To be fair, with the new ESRB restrictions, I can see this one happening.

I think a character like Bayonetta has the advantage of already being a Smash character. Emio may have some actual hurdles to jump through.

 

[NintenRob]

To be fair, with the new ESRB restrictions, I can see this one happening.

I think a character like Bayonetta has the advantage of already being a Smash character. Emio may have some actual hurdles to jump through.

I feel like there will be workarounds though. We only really know about these restrictions because of them still including stuff in the game, just not referring to the actual game.

 

[Ivander]

So when do you think we'll learn more about Emio?

Maybe soon-ish. For something so vague, I can't imagine it being a very long time before we get info.

That said, for a potential horror game like this, what would I like for them to do?

1. Do another vague and cryptic teaser that has the trailer/the Smiling Man character ask, "Do you wish to meet me?" "Does "insert date here" sound like a good time?" before the trailer goes a bit more cryptic and then ends.
2. On that date that they give out, every Switch gets a "system update" and that "system update" when it finishes puts out a Menu Option of the game at the front(as if you downloaded a game or the game you last played) that asks if you would like to meet "Emio", though first it gives a warning about the game's content and gives a Yes or No Answer. Answering No removes the "Icon" from the Switch menu, but answering Yes downloads a demo onto the Switch that serves as a "Before it began" for the game, similar to the Resident Evil 7 and 8 Demos and the P.T. demo.
3. The demo serves to introduce the Smiling Man/Emio character and show the players on what the gameplay and some of the setting is going to be like and then after players finish the demo, it gives the players the name of the game and gives the planned release date for the game.

Probably won't happen like that, but basically, an ARG-like thing that hands out a demo of the game that serves as the "First Look"/"First Interactive Trailer" and gives the players the name of the game and the planned release date for the game when they finish the demo. That would certainly be a bizarre and unique way to give the game attention.

 

[Perkilator]

Maybe soon-ish. For something so vague, I can't imagine it being a very long time before we get info.

That said, for a potential horror game like this, what would I like for them to do?

1. Do another vague and cryptic teaser that has the trailer/the Smiling Man character ask, "Do you wish to meet me?" "Does "insert date here" sound like a good time?" before the trailer goes a bit more cryptic and then ends.
2. On that date that they give out, every Switch gets a "system update" and that "system update" when it finishes puts out a Menu Option of the game at the front(as if you downloaded a game or the game you last played) that asks if you would like to meet "Emio", though first it gives a warning about the game's content and gives a Yes or No Answer. Answering No removes the "Icon" from the Switch menu, but answering Yes downloads a demo onto the Switch that serves as a "Before it began" for the game, similar to the Resident Evil 7 and 8 Demos and the P.T. demo.
3. The demo serves to introduce the Smiling Man/Emio character and show the players on what the gameplay and some of the setting is going to be like and then after players finish the demo, it gives the players the name of the game and gives the planned release date for the game.

Probably won't happen like that, but basically, an ARG-like thing that hands out a demo of the game that serves as the "First Look"/"First Interactive Trailer" and gives the players the name of the game and the planned release date for the game when they finish the demo. That would certainly be a bizarre and unique way to give the game attention.

That's the kind of demo that would make me click "No" right away. I ****ing love it.

 

[Ivander]

So Nintendo of Australia put out their version of the Emio trailer a bit ago.

It has an MA +15 Restriction and according to it, it will have "Strong Themes", Violence, Cruelty, Domestic Violence and Suicide Themes and References. Nintendo's not going soft with this game.

 

[Gengar84]

Okay, I finally got every ending in Bravely Default 2 and I think I probably broke the game. Pretty sure you weren’t meant to make every unit the exact same build but it seems nearly unbeatable. Everyone was a Freelancer as primary with a Hellblade secondary. I gave them all sub specialty 1 for health regen and double max HP. Everyone was equipping a ribbon and spammed mimic after one unit used Body Slam. It seems nearly impossible to lose with that setup.

Anyways, it would be cool to see some Bravely content in Smash like music or a stage at least.

 

[CannonStreak]

You know, Emio is not Nintendo’s first mature game out there.

Though this may not have been a USA game, anyone know about this?

Disaster: Day of Crisis

Disaster: Day of Crisis() is a video game for the Wii by Monolith Soft and Nintendo. Raymond Bryce, a member of the International Rescue Team (IRT), has been assigned to a mission on Mt. Aguilas, an active volcano in South America. While he and his best friend Steve Hewitt were busy hauling...

nintendo.fandom.com

 

[CrusherMania1592]

How likely is Crash bandicoot for smash 6?

I will Falcon Punch Sakurai if it does not happen

Mario vs Sonic vs Crash is MONEY

 

[Noipoi]

How likely is Crash bandicoot for smash 6?

More likely than you’d think he’d be, not as likely as I want him to be.

 

[Wonder Smash]

How likely is Crash bandicoot for smash 6?

I'm not sure how much demand he has but he has everything else going for him, so I say he's likely enough.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yay! New Double Dragon!

Oh...it doesn't look good...

Pyramid Head is one of those characters who I probably actively wouldn't want in Smash. Unless the actual creators behind the character and the game signed off on it, I think that is so actively antithetical to Silent Hill 2 and its message and what the character means. I really dislike how Pyramid Head has been trotted out for merchandising and crossovers by Konami in general, and I can't say I think Smash would be any different. It's not a matter of the care put into the character and series at that point for me.

Pretty sure that ship has sailed...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think most of the concern is often in regards to the CERO/ESRB Rating rather than the horror characters portrayal. Because most people don't argue much about Jill Valentine or Leon Kennedy, since RE characters like Chris and Jill were in Marvel vs Capcom.
Pyramid Head does get argued a bit, but the giant knife is hardly different from Cloud's Buster Sword, Pyramid Head has been in light-hearted crossovers like Super Bomberman R, a Konami crossover racer and in a Olympic game by Konami, and he's been in joke scenes in Silent Hill too. And he can be toned a bit down to take out a couple of his 'very mature' subjects, but enough to keep his brutality and whatnot.

This was back in DLC speculation (before the ESRB thing), but I remember there being a lot of people concerned about horror monsters requiring too many changes to fit Smash's tone.

I do agree that it's a pretty weak argument though. Looking at horror candidates, there's Freddy, who's series is extremely campy, Nemesis T-Type, who's shown they can fit in an environment where they're not supposed to be scary, and Pyramid Head, who would definitely be a challenge, but can definitely work (In fact, there's a Rivals of Aether mod that has really cool ideas on just how he can work). Maybe I'm missing some options, but a lot of these games probably wouldn't add their monsters (at least as their first rep) since the focus is more on the player character surviving them.

 

[AreJay25]

Yay! New Double Dragon!

Oh...it doesn't look good...

You know, I started watching the video, saw the ArcSys logo and thought it couldn't be that bad.

Then I saw the gameplay and thought "Uhhh okay. With ArcSys at the helm you'd think it'd look a lot bet-"

Then I saw the Yuke's logo at the bottom right corner at the end. Yeah that sounds about right lmao.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yay! New Double Dragon!


Oh...it doesn't look good...

Wow! DarthEnderX is gonna be so happy about this!


Presentation is kinda wonky though. Why is all the game play zoomed in so you can't actually see it? Why did they prioritize showing a mediocre cinematic with characters it fails to introduce over actual game play?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Wow! DarthEnderX is gonna be so happy about this!

Oh...it doesn't look good...

Mmm...

 

[Wonder Smash]

Wow! DarthEnderX is gonna be so happy about this!

Umm...what about me?

As for the trailer, I don't see what's so bad about it. Personally, I'd just wait until they show more gameplay of it.

 

[Stratos]

I think Emio will be very interesting, from Nintendo horror games we had two, one was Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem and the other was Geist. I would also say that Emio or Smile man will be one of the next ones I want as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros series. However, it is most likely that this new Emio video game will be released for the next Nintendo console, that is, to be released on the Switch 2, of course this is not certain as it can be released on the Switch 1 or at best both. Also if we count Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem and Geist as M-Rating video games as well, there's also Disaster: Day of Crisis.

 

[fogbadge]

Okay, I finally got every ending in Bravely Default 2 and I think I probably broke the game. Pretty sure you weren’t meant to make every unit the exact same build but it seems nearly unbeatable. Everyone was a Freelancer as primary with a Hellblade secondary. I gave them all sub specialty 1 for health regen and double max HP. Everyone was equipping a ribbon and spammed mimic after one unit used Body Slam. It seems nearly impossible to lose with that setup.

Anyways, it would be cool to see some Bravely content in Smash like music or a stage at least.

how long did it take you to beat her?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The Double Dragon title doesn't even really look so much bad as it does a bit generic. Especially after the likes of SoR4 and Shredder's Revenge felt distinct in their visual aesthetics, Revive just comes off as a bit bland with what it's going for. Hopefully the gameplay can make up for some of the graphical shortcomings.

 

[Oracle Link]

Mmm...
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KAZUMA! KAZUMA! KAZUMA! KAZUMA! WÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄH!

 

[dream1ng]

If this horror game is successful enough I don't see Nintendo omitting the character. Assuming this is even a first party IP and not something like Daemon x Machina.

Yeah the new ESRB restrictions, if they function as we believe them to, do present an obstacle. However the next Smash game is going to be made with them in mind, and it doesn't prohibit characters, just limits explicit references to their series. The next game can be made purposefully to minimize the kind of references some series wouldn't be able to feature, both in-game and in marketing, in a way Ultimate couldn't - as its development and release predated the change.

The difference, I believe, between a mature first-party series and third-party series is omitting successful, current first-party series would be very conspicuous. With third-party series, there are so many options, you can just opt for ones that don't present a ratings complication.

However, this is all fairly premature. Games like this hitting it big are not quite so common, especially as Nintendo IP. Until we see sales numbers that indicate otherwise, I'm going to peg this IP closer to AT level. ATs are also easier to dance around the series name, and, potentially, could still make it for base (it's imo too late for future new series).

And as for these
"They'd never have a horror character."
Sure they could. Nintendo published Fatal Frame for a while, and put an AT in Ultimate. There are already M-rated characters in Smash, there's nothing intrinsically too adult for Smash about horror characters if they're not running around bleeding and maiming people.

"His Moveset potential is too vague." (Because the best horror leaves things hidden, which I anticipate this will do)
I doubt this will be the case after the game actually comes out. Sakurai and his team are pretty good at moveset creation.

Also, just because the teaser is vague (because it's a teaser) doesn't mean the character will be.

"Nintendo doesn't want to promote it alongside their other IPs" (it wasn't in the June direct, just a standalone video that is age restricted)
Nintendo didn't promote Ring Fit alongside their other IPs either, it got its own showcase. Smash is generally about bringing all these disparate series together. Plus, Smash seems to be more exempt from restrictions than the rest. I mean, I don't see them letting people think Mario has been impaled in many other situations.

More over, at some point this game probably will show up in a presentation along with other Nintendo games. Nintendo Directs have had games like Wolfenstein in them, and those games are not only fairly violent, but deal with some pretty controversial themes and imagery.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

So do you guys think Emio is the protagonist or the monster?

 

[Oracle Link]

So do you guys think Emio is the protagonist or the monster?

I mean im guessing hes the monster Considering how the trailer framed him!
(Although i could see nintendo having a horror protagonist with a smiley bag!)

 

[Gengar84]

how long did it take you to beat her?

Maybe five minutes, if that. I had it on 4x speed and mastered every class (most classes weren’t legendary yet though). I was also around level 88 with all my characters. The boss literally couldn’t damage more than I passively healed every turn. She dealt about 350 damage on the high end and I was gaining 1,600 HP every turn from Hellblade’s support. I remember not being able to beat the final boss of the first game so I may have overprepared this time lol.

The boss at the gravesite and the final class upgrade portal battle were much more difficult than the true final boss. I actually had to use multiple elixirs to win that portal battle.

 

[RileyXY1]

If this horror game is successful enough I don't see Nintendo omitting the character. Assuming this is even a first party IP and not something like Daemon x Machina.

Yeah the new ESRB restrictions, if they function as we believe them to, do present an obstacle. However the next Smash game is going to be made with them in mind, and it doesn't prohibit characters, just limits explicit references to their series. The next game can be made purposefully to minimize the kind of references some series wouldn't be able to feature, both in-game and in marketing, in a way Ultimate couldn't - as its development and release predated the change.

The difference, I believe, between a mature first-party series and third-party series is omitting successful, current first-party series would be very conspicuous. With third-party series, there are so many options, you can just opt for ones that don't present a ratings complication.

However, this is all fairly premature. Games like this hitting it big are not quite so common, especially as Nintendo IP. Until we see sales numbers that indicate otherwise, I'm going to peg this IP closer to AT level. ATs are also easier to dance around the series name, and, potentially, could still make it for base (it's imo too late for future new series).

And as for these
"They'd never have a horror character."
Sure they could. Nintendo published Fatal Frame for a while, and put an AT in Ultimate. There are already M-rated characters in Smash, there's nothing intrinsically too adult for Smash about horror characters if they're not running around bleeding and maiming people.

"His Moveset potential is too vague." (Because the best horror leaves things hidden, which I anticipate this will do)
I doubt this will be the case after the game actually comes out. Sakurai and his team are pretty good at moveset creation.

Also, just because the teaser is vague (because it's a teaser) doesn't mean the character will be.

"Nintendo doesn't want to promote it alongside their other IPs" (it wasn't in the June direct, just a standalone video that is age restricted)
Nintendo didn't promote Ring Fit alongside their other IPs either, it got its own showcase. Smash is generally about bringing all these disparate series together. Plus, Smash seems to be more exempt from restrictions than the rest. I mean, I don't see them letting people think Mario has been impaled in many other situations.

More over, at some point this game probably will show up in a presentation along with other Nintendo games. Nintendo Directs have had games like Wolfenstein in them, and those games are not only fairly violent, but deal with some pretty controversial themes and imagery.

I don't know if Sakurai would want to add a character that he can't even acknowledge what series they came from.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah it's worth pointing out that Sakurai and Nintendo have always been fairly hesitant to including new Nintendo IPs as full on playable characters like that, like in Smash Ultimate's case, we literally only got two (Splatoon and ARMS, the latter of which as DLC). So I feel like this Emio game is first gonna have to really prove itself, lest it goes the way of stuff like Eternal Darkness, Custom Robo, Sin & Punishment, Dillon's Rolling Western, etc as spirit/assist trophy fodder.

 

[fogbadge]

Maybe five minutes, if that. I had it on 4x speed and mastered every class (most classes weren’t legendary yet though). I was also around level 88 with all my characters. The boss literally couldn’t damage more than I passively healed every turn. She dealt about 350 damage on the high end and I was gaining 1,600 HP every turn from Hellblade’s support. I remember not being able to beat the final boss of the first game so I may have overprepared this time lol.

The boss at the gravesite and the final class upgrade portal battle were much more difficult than the true final boss. I actually had to use multiple elixirs to win that portal battle.

evidently you found the build that breaks the game

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

More than by "Will Elmo get in Smash?" I'm intrigued by Nintendo doing a straightforward horror game. It's something really new for them. Almost unprecedented. It's pretty much just Eternal Darkness quite a long time ago, no?

 

[Will]

I don't know if Sakurai would want to add a character that he can't even acknowledge what series they came from.

Would it matter if Nintendo told him to do it?

 

[fogbadge]

More than by "Will Elmo get in Smash?" I'm intrigued by Nintendo doing a straightforward horror game. It's something really new for them. Almost unprecedented. It's pretty much just Eternal Darkness quite a long time ago, no?

you want the sesame street thread

 

[Louie G.]

I think the kneejerk reaction to talk about Smash with this horror game announcement is natural, simply because the number of new Nintendo IPs as of late has been.... well, there's a reason the only one that really comes up nowadays is Ring Fit Adventure. And also, the prospect of a new first party game that is ALSO an M-Rated horror game is pretty exciting to ponder on. It presents a very interesting dynamic against what Nintendo is typically known for, which has the mind wander toward "Emio" stalking Mario, which gets to Smash brain pretty quickly. We're not working with a lot of info here, after all.

And yes, Smash is historically kind of hesitant to add brand new IPs but... arguably not as much anymore? ARMS and even more notably Xenoblade back in Smash 4 got the Smash treatment after only a single game, and Ring Fit Adventure is likely to get the same. The relative lack of new IP through the last decade or so means less competition - the likes of Eternal Darkness or Sin & Punishment were competing with a dozen other new series that got overshadowed by Animal Crossing, Pikmin and WarioWare. We're not seeing even a fraction of the rapidfire introduction of new IP that we saw in the 2000s. Something as bold and fresh as a full on horror franchise under Nintendo is bound to demand a great deal of attention nowadays, in the Switch era.

But as everyone knows, it's hilariously early to be speculating too hard on a character and a game we know virtually nothing about. Due to the timing here I suspect the earliest anything substantial could show up is DLC, akin to Min Min. We'll just have to wait and see, but I'm compelled by both what this game is and at the prospect of a true horror themed character in Smash.

 

[Geno Boost]

This video is 10 years old now lol

Man I remember those days where smash community were split on Ridley because of his size

 

[Dinoman96]

This video is 10 years old now lol

Man I remember those days where smash community were split on Ridley because of his size

Oh man, that old Brawl mod...

In hindsight, I honestly feel like a lot of the Ridley's fanbases mods and prove of concepts made back in the day to convince naysayers wrong....ironically did the exact opposite, because of how really janky a lot of them were.

I actually think a big problem is that they kept relying on the Brawl boss model, which was, you know, designed first and foremost as a boss character. Shrinking it down like that just made him look like a goofy dinosaur imo.

I honestly think a big reason to why Ridley was able to work in Smash Ultimate is because Sakurai effectively had to completely re-invent the character from top to bottom, and give him a new design that lets him look actually intimidating even at a smaller size.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I'm just wondering, does it seem like ASW is trying to push Double Dragon a lot lately? There was Double Dragon Gaiden last year, there's this Revive game now, and then there's Billy and Jimmy in River City Girls 2.

 

[Sucumbio]

I love horror and if we get any horror characters I'd be really happy this included but my favs got to RE, SH or something else entirely like Alan Wake or even Cursed Mountain. There's just so much to the genre ... More than Enio at this point which is 15 seconds of like the ring meets lilbigplanet but that's OKAY Nintendo! Now Port Eternal Darkness!!

 

[Louie G.]

Man I remember those days where smash community were split on Ridley because of his size

The funniest thing about this to me is how few people have died on this hill. Every so often you'll see someone who still swears by Ridley looking weird in Smash, but 90% of that base mysteriously disappeared after that E3 Trailer. It really makes you wonder what all the fighting was about in the first place... or maybe Ultimate's Ridley really is just that good. Like Dinoman said, Sakurai did it far more convincingly than any fan mod.

Although I think people just like to be right and keep the routine up until they aren't. There were people who hated on K. Rool too until they suddenly didn't. Somewhere along the way Smash fans get the wires tangled and what they simply think might not be likely or plausible devolves into what should not be and doesn't deserve to be.