Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

I'm just wondering, does it seem like ASW is trying to push Double Dragon a lot lately? There was Double Dragon Gaiden last year, there's this Revive game now, and then there's Billy and Jimmy in River City Girls 2.

I feel like they're trying to build oldschool cred with DD and RC because their own properties didn't really take off till the 2000s.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

The funniest thing about this to me is how few people have died on this hill. Every so often you'll see someone who still swears by Ridley looking weird in Smash, but 90% of that base mysteriously disappeared after that E3 Trailer. It really makes you wonder what all the fighting was about in the first place... or maybe Ultimate's Ridley really is just that good. Like Dinoman said, Sakurai did it far more convincingly than any fan mod.

Although I think people just like to be right and keep the routine up until they aren't. There were people who hated on K. Rool too until they suddenly didn't. Somewhere along the way Smash fans get the wires tangled and what they simply think might not be likely or plausible devolves into what should not be and doesn't deserve to be.

I will admit that I fell for the "too big" meme, but looking back, it was a bit hard to see otherwise if you weren't a Metroid fan. I know someone IRL who was like this and used to argue about how the inconsistent sizing scale, particularly in Super's case, meant that Kraid was the only boss who really fit Ridley's specified argument of being unscalable. But if you only look at Smash appearances until Ultimate, Melee's intro was the only believable sequence where a potentially playable Ridley seemed plausible, and even then, it was difficult to see that in a prerendered cameo that only lasted a couple of seconds.

Of course, seeing Samus crossing that artificial chasm was enough of a whiplash for me right off the bat.

 

[Sucumbio]

Isn't Rosalina or Ganondorf or someone taller I don't remember (cause of his posture)

 

[Gengar84]

Isn't Rosalina or Ganondorf or someone taller I don't remember (cause of his posture)

I think Ridley and Donkey Kong are actually the two tallest characters in the game if they stood straight up. I don’t remember which of the two is taller.

 

[CannonStreak]

I think Ridley and Donkey Kong are actually the two tallest characters in the game if they stood straight up. I don’t remember which of the two is taller.

Probably Ridley, mainly because he is supposed to be that bi-SHOT

Yeah, I know...I'll shut up on that.

And yeah, even I know not of which of the two is actually taller.

 

[Louie G.]

I will admit that I fell for the "too big" meme, but looking back, it was a bit hard to see otherwise if you weren't a Metroid fan. I know someone IRL who was like this and used to argue about how the inconsistent sizing scale, particularly in Super's case, meant that Kraid was the only boss who really fit Ridley's specified argument of being unscalable. But if you only look at Smash appearances until Ultimate, Melee's intro was the only believable sequence where a potentially playable Ridley seemed plausible, and even then, it was difficult to see that in a prerendered cameo that only lasted a couple of seconds.

Yeah, and I mean coming off Smash 4 with two separate less than encouraging statements from Sakurai, and a pattern of implementing him in a particular role... I was all but ready to give up on the big guy if he didn't show up during that E3 presentation. Thankfully, he did. But I can't blame anyone at all for being skeptical and having their own opinions on the matter - I can just blame people for being rude. So many people chose to berate Ridley supporters and blanketly treat them as unreasonable. Mind you, some of them were very toxic, but with fandom you always kinda have to take the good with the bad. But one way or the other, it's always exhausting to argue with a brick wall.

Of course, old habits don't die. I see the same patterns extended toward Waluigi or Geno, although I wonder if fans who are critical of these characters would step off like they did with Ridley. If there was one thing that could never be argued against Ridley, it's his credentials. He was an "all star" and a major character from a staple Nintendo franchise. Now with a lot of discourse surrounding general importance and the inherent value of the most popular characters, rather than arguments about feasibility, I can see more people stubbornly holding onto grudges here.

 

[Perkilator]

That's the kind of demo that would make me click "No" right away. I ****ing love it.

So, funny story; I had a dream last night that this exact scenario took place. I was getting ready to do some Mario Kart 8 Deluxe time trials when the screen started turning dark and the Emio title screen took its place. Naturally, I clicked “No” as soon as the prompt came up and turned off my Switch.

Although now that I mention Mario Kart 8 Deluxe…

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yeah, I think it would be an understatement to say that the next Mario Kart game has massive shoes to fill.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Oh man, that old Brawl mod...

In hindsight, I honestly feel like a lot of the Ridley's fanbases mods and prove of concepts made back in the day to convince naysayers wrong....ironically did the exact opposite, because of how really janky a lot of them were.

I actually think a big problem is that they kept relying on the Brawl boss model, which was, you know, designed first and foremost as a boss character. Shrinking it down like that just made him look like a goofy dinosaur imo.

I honestly think a big reason to why Ridley was able to work in Smash Ultimate is because Sakurai effectively had to completely re-invent the character from top to bottom, and give him a new design that lets him look actually intimidating even at a smaller size.

I was on the "Sakurai won't include Ridley unless a Smash-original design is made that is tailored to the idea of being a fighter" mindset ever since his shadow was shown on Pyrosphere.

I had actually correctly predicted why Ridley wasn't playable being that there would need to be too many drastic changes from an existing design just to make it work for Sakurai's liking. Something not really done before with any other character by that point.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My prediction on Emio is that regardless of what happens, the game will not make the base roster unless Smash is coming later than we think because if it's coming next year this reveal would have been long before the roster was decided.

Assuming he's 1st party, he'd definitely be an interesting character to discuss for DLC though.

Probably Ridley, mainly because he is supposed to be that bi-SHOT

Ridley's supposed to be a BIG SHOT?

 

[fogbadge]

I can see the paper bag mii hat now

 

[superprincess]

Isn't Smash Ridley supposed to be a 3D recreation/modernization of his sprite from the very first Metroid game? So he isn't really an original in a way. Just a character going back to their roots.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Isn't Smash Ridley supposed to be a 3D recreation/modernization of his sprite from the very first Metroid game? So he isn't really an original in a way. Just a character going back to their roots.

By that logic, Pit's Brawl design being a "modernization" means it isn't original to Brawl.

 

[superprincess]

By that logic, Pit's Brawl design being a "modernization" means it isn't original to Brawl.

Not really. Ridley's design is just a recreation of the in-game sprite, which was conveniently smaller than modern Ridley. Pit underwent a total redesign, gaining a whole new weapon, and being drawn in a different art style, as if his series kept getting entries.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

By that logic, Pit's Brawl design being a "modernization" means it isn't original to Brawl.

If it is different enough to be considered a redesign, it's definitely a subtle one, as he looks about the same as he does in Metroid/Super Metroid artwork.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

If it is different enough to be considered a redesign, it's definitely a subtle one, as he looks about the same as he does in Metroid/Super Metroid artwork.

What the ****, no he doesn't.
He looks like he does in Brawl in Super Metroid's artwork but red and some freakish fly-like alien in Metroid's art.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What the ****, no he doesn't.
He looks like he does in Brawl in Super Metroid's artwork but red and some freakish fly-like alien in Metroid's art.

Yeah looks like I got my references mixed up. Super Metroid and Metroid: Zero Mission were what I was looking for. Taking a closer look, a little of Metroid: Other M's look is there too with the head shape, but it's more like the former two.

 

[Slime Scholar]

To be fair, with the new ESRB restrictions, I can see this one happening.

Other series have adapted to this rule. Fortnite, like Ultimate, doesn’t actually name the series the characters come from. Leon and Claire are part of a “Raccoon City Survivors” bundle, with no mention of Resident Evil or Biohazard in-game or in official press releases. They’re just referred to as“gaming legends” while Capcom is still listed as their rights holders. Jill and Chris are treated similarly.

Granted, its awkward for Smash to continue dancing around that in-game, pretending like we don’t know where these characters come from. But they could conceivably do it, and will have to if certain veterans come back. They’ve already done it for Mii costumes and spirits so I don’t see why they wouldn’t for fighters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As far as the ESRB thing goes, I feel like the UI will just use series icons exclusively from here on out. It's a bit less clear, but it would pretty much nip all issues with it in the bud.

 

[RileyXY1]

Other series have adapted to this rule. Fortnite, like Ultimate, doesn’t actually name the series the characters come from. Leon and Claire are part of a “Raccoon City Survivors” bundle, with no mention of Resident Evil or Biohazard in-game or in official press releases. They’re just referred to as“gaming legends” while Capcom is still listed as their rights holders. Jill and Chris are treated similarly.

Granted, its awkward for Smash to continue dancing around that in-game, pretending like we don’t know where these characters come from. But they could conceivably do it, and will have to if certain veterans come back. They’ve already done it for Mii costumes and spirits so I don’t see why they wouldn’t for fighters.

Sakurai might not want to add a fighter when he can't even mention what franchise they came from. It might be a dealbreaker for him.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Sakurai might not want to add a fighter when he can't even mention what franchise they came from. It might be a dealbreaker for him.

Are we sure about that? That seems kinda extreme.

 

[RileyXY1]

Are we sure about that? That seems kinda extreme.

It would be weird if only some characters had acknowledgement of their games and others don't. I think Sakurai might decide to represent E-rated games only next game in order to preserve Smash's legacy as a crossover game.

 

[chocolatejr9]

It would be weird if only some characters had acknowledgement of their games and others don't. I think Sakurai might decide to represent E-rated games only next game in order to preserve Smash's legacy as a crossover game.

Sega was perfectly fine not mentioning House of the Dead by name in the Sega Superstars games, how's this any different?

 

[Stratos]

Many of us are hoping that in Super Smash Bros. 6 that R.O.B. will finally have a stage from Gyromite, which is more likely than a stage from Stack-Up.

 

[RileyXY1]

Sega was perfectly fine not mentioning House of the Dead by name in the Sega Superstars games, how's this any different?

Smash is basically a museum of gaming. It would be weird if some franchises couldn't be referenced by name, or even be spoken about. They would basically become accessories.

 

[SPEN18]

Ridley in Smash Ult is true to his source, only with standard Smash-style scaling and reduced flight capability, and possibly a little more hunching/crouching than one might expect, but not to the extent that he looks out-of-character. I wouldn't say he's "reinvented" at all, just adapted to the practical constraints like any other character. That's not to diminish the great amount of care and effort put into him to make him work, and I'm not denying the hefty challenge in getting him right; just, I think this is one case (like Villager, for example) where Sakurai basically proved himself wrong. Looking at Ridley in Ult, there's not really any reason we couldn't have gotten essentially the same thing in an earlier Smash game; Sakurai simply hadn't cracked that code yet, and I'm glad he finally did.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Random Character Idea: A taunt for Meta Knight that has him throw down a sword from the Kirby series. The sword is a functional item that's essentially a weaker beam sword with fairly low range. Meta Knight can't pick it up while it's in the ground, and trying has him kick the it at the opponent. The initial throw is and the kick are too slow to be practical, but they do OK damage on hit. Ideally the moves would be not practical enough for regular use, but just practical enough for the funnies.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The main thing is they made a new model for Ridley that was easier to work with, while keeping his core design intact. It's nothing extreme like Pit's completely new design(which still encompasses his original design, but it's quite clearly different). This one on the other wing is a bit more scaly(to the point the scales look like armored plates a bit) whereas the normal Ridley, while still having scales, looked like a much more solid body. Though it does somewhat resemble Other M's look a bit, which erred slightly more on the armored side at times.

But anyway, it's a great change up and looks quite amazing. As well as far better than the other hacks which simply tried to reduce the size of the other models(which did not work. Those weren't meant to be that small. They were designed for massive size, heh).

 

[smashkirby]

I suppose the closest comparison we have to other popular requests is Bandana Waddle Dee, but Bandana Dee has consistently been framed as a very specific individual Waddle Dee. Yeah, any other Dee could wear the bandana, but BWD has been the only Waddle Dee who's actually shown with one. He's given a distinguishing identity and attributes. The Toads haven't really had that, unless you count Captain Toad and Toadette.

Funny thing is, Shinya Kumazaki (the general director of modern-day Kirby) seemed to point out in a Star Allies-era interview that he and the Kirby dev team made it a point to make clear that Bandana Waddle Dee is, without question, the same Waddle Dee in every game.

Heck, even the Kirby light novels in Japan play with this concept a bit by having B.W.D. ask a random Waddle Dee to wear his bandana and pass himself off as Bandana Dee himself, only for Dedede to easily tell he's not him.

 

[Gengar84]

The main thing is they made a new model for Ridley that was easier to work with, while keeping his core design intact. It's nothing extreme like Pit's completely new design(which still encompasses his original design, but it's quite clearly different). This one on the other wing is a bit more scaly(to the point the scales look like armored plates a bit) whereas the normal Ridley, while still having scales, looked like a much more solid body. Though it does somewhat resemble Other M's look a bit, which erred slightly more on the armored side at times.

But anyway, it's a great change up and looks quite amazing. As well as far better than the other hacks which simply tried to reduce the size of the other models(which did not work. Those weren't meant to be that small. They were designed for massive size, heh).

Ridley’s Ultimate body reminds me a lot of the Xenomorphs from Alien. Just replace those back tubes on the Aliens with wings and change the color to a grayish purple instead of black.

 

[Laniv]

Ridley’s Ultimate body reminds me a lot of the Xenomorphs from Alien. Just replace those back tubes on the Aliens with wings and change the color to a grayish purple instead of black.

IIRC, Ridley was named after Ridley Scott, director of Alien. And Metroids are kinda just jellyfish-shaped Xenomorphs in terms of behavior. And Samus herself is kinda based on Ellen Ripley if you squint.

 

[ninjahmos]

I still think it's clever that Ridley's reveal trailer is an homage to Aliens.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Ridley’s Ultimate body reminds me a lot of the Xenomorphs from Alien. Just replace those back tubes on the Aliens with wings and change the color to a grayish purple instead of black.

Well the Metroid franchise was originally a homage to the Alien(s) movies.

 

[SharkLord]

I think the kneejerk reaction to talk about Smash with this horror game announcement is natural, simply because the number of new Nintendo IPs as of late has been.... well, there's a reason the only one that really comes up nowadays is Ring Fit Adventure. And also, the prospect of a new first party game that is ALSO an M-Rated horror game is pretty exciting to ponder on. It presents a very interesting dynamic against what Nintendo is typically known for, which has the mind wander toward "Emio" stalking Mario, which gets to Smash brain pretty quickly. We're not working with a lot of info here, after all.

And yes, Smash is historically kind of hesitant to add brand new IPs but... arguably not as much anymore? ARMS and even more notably Xenoblade back in Smash 4 got the Smash treatment after only a single game, and Ring Fit Adventure is likely to get the same. The relative lack of new IP through the last decade or so means less competition - the likes of Eternal Darkness or Sin & Punishment were competing with a dozen other new series that got overshadowed by Animal Crossing, Pikmin and WarioWare. We're not seeing even a fraction of the rapidfire introduction of new IP that we saw in the 2000s. Something as bold and fresh as a full on horror franchise under Nintendo is bound to demand a great deal of attention nowadays, in the Switch era.

But as everyone knows, it's hilariously early to be speculating too hard on a character and a game we know virtually nothing about. Due to the timing here I suspect the earliest anything substantial could show up is DLC, akin to Min Min. We'll just have to wait and see, but I'm compelled by both what this game is and at the prospect of a true horror themed character in Smash.

Also of note is that SSBU just had a really limited selection of newcomers in base, and that selection was largely based on ballot popularity. Half of the roster was DLC, and the majority of that was third-party. If Ultimate had a normal development and release cycle, I'm sure we'd have a couple new IPs represented (Though like you mentioned, the only major ones now are like, Astral Chain and Ring Fit, maaaaaybe Nintendo Labo, so there isn't that much to work with in the first place)

 

[Ivander]

So this came out of nowhere!

A day after showing that teaser for "Emio", all of the sudden, Starfy 1, 2 and 3 are coming over to the West on the GBA NSO! Sadly untranslated, but still(hopefully this means Custom Robo V1 and V2 for the West N64 NSO). And the NES NSO Update with the 7 NES games was just around 8 days ago, near the start of the month.

When did Nintendo start cooking and why are they cooking so quickly?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So this came out of nowhere!

A day after showing that teaser for "Emio", all of the sudden, Starfy 1, 2 and 3 are coming over to the West on the GBA NSO! Sadly untranslated, but still(hopefully this means Custom Robo V1 and V2 for the West N64 NSO). And the NES NSO Update with the 7 NES games was just around 8 days ago, near the start of the month.

When did Nintendo start cooking and why are they cooking so quickly?

Opossum
Your boy is finally home.

 

[Guynamednelson]

When did Nintendo start cooking and why are they cooking so quickly?

Too bad it's not with making-sure-English-speakers-can-understand-these-text-heavy-games-flavored spices.

 

[RodNutTakin]

So this came out of nowhere!

A day after showing that teaser for "Emio", all of the sudden, Starfy 1, 2 and 3 are coming over to the West on the GBA NSO! Sadly untranslated, but still(hopefully this means Custom Robo V1 and V2 for the West N64 NSO). And the NES NSO Update with the 7 NES games was just around 8 days ago, near the start of the month.

When did Nintendo start cooking and why are they cooking so quickly?

I rarely get mad on here, but today I have to make an exception.
You are Nintendo. You have decided that apropros of nothing, you will finally give the rest of the world three games from a series dormant for almost 15 years. This is the first time ever that you are officially giving the rest of the world these games, these games that have a LOT of text and story in them. You have the potential to revitalize interest in this series with this move.
And then you choose to leave these games entirely untranslated even though Western audiences will be able to readily play these games tomorrow.

WHY???
What is the point of doing this? There have been other games on the service left untranslated, but leaving the Starfy games untranslated is going to seriously hurt in this instance. The games are a lot more dialogue and story-driven than the average Nintendo platformer--each stage has multiple cutscenes each, and the three games are overall very character-driven. Having the games untranslated is going to leave a terrible first impression on the average player using the NSO service, which is going to be fatal if Nintendo's intent with doing this is to measure interest in the series going forward. If Nintendo seriously cares this little, they might as well have put Mother 3 untranslated on the English service as well, but they didn't! This whole inconsistent treatment of Japanese-only games on NSO is genuinely infuriating--I genuinely would've been less angry if we got random shovelware and only the Japanese NSO got the Starfy games.

Between this and what happened to Madou Monogatari 4 today, I'm genuinely upset. It feels like this was done just to hurt me in particular.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I rarely get mad on here, but today I have to make an exception.
You are Nintendo. You have decided that apropros of nothing, you will finally give the rest of the world three games from a series dormant for almost 15 years. This is the first time ever that you are officially giving the rest of the world these games, these games that have a LOT of text and story in them. You have the potential to revitalize interest in this series with this move.
And then you choose to leave these games entirely untranslated even though Western audiences will be able to readily play these games tomorrow.

WHY???
What is the point of doing this? There have been other games on the service left untranslated, but leaving the Starfy games untranslated is going to seriously hurt in this instance. The games are a lot more dialogue and story-driven than the average Nintendo platformer--each stage has multiple cutscenes each, and the three games are overall very character-driven. Having the games untranslated is going to leave a terrible first impression on the average player using the NSO service, which is going to be fatal if Nintendo's intent with doing this is to measure interest in the series going forward. If Nintendo seriously cares this little, they might as well have put Mother 3 untranslated on the English service as well, but they didn't! This whole inconsistent treatment of Japanese-only games on NSO is genuinely infuriating--I genuinely would've been less angry if we got random shovelware and only the Japanese NSO got the Starfy games.

Between this and what happened to Madou Monogatari 4 today, I'm genuinely upset. It feels like this was done just to hurt me in particular.

I understand the sentiment behind this, since I also wish they were translated.

However, considering Starfy hasn't had a new game in 15 years, these games have never been rereleased in the 20 years they've existed (I thought they would've been on WiiU VC but I didn't find anything from looking them up), and the only thing Starfy has gotten otherwise since 2009 is a costume in Mario Maker 1 that you can't get anymore?

I'll take what I can get, personally lmao

 

[RodNutTakin]

(I thought they would've been on WiiU VC but I didn't find anything from looking them up)

EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER

From the list of Japanese Wii U VC titles on Wikipedia.

As for your other point, this being the first time in years they've done anything notable with him isn't an excuse if they're going to be half-hearted about it like this. Like I said, if this is an attempt to revitalize interest in the series overseas, the large amounts of Japanese text is going to dissuade all but die-hard fans, doubly so since this is only going to be available for Expansion Pack members. I really do not want them to send out Starfy to die like this.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER
View attachment 392351
From the list of Japanese Wii U VC titles on Wikipedia.

As for your other point, this being the first time in years they've done anything notable with him isn't an excuse if they're going to be half-hearted about it like this. Like I said, if this is an attempt to revitalize interest in the series overseas, the large amounts of Japanese text is going to dissuade all but die-hard fans, doubly so since this is only going to be available for Expansion Pack members. I really do not want them to send out Starfy to die like this.

Ah okay, I didn't see anything in other places, should've checked the full list.

And that also depends on it being an attempt to revitalize interest in the series in the first place, which we're not even sure if it is because you could say that for any series on NSO that hasn't had a game in a while like Golden Sun, Kuru Kuru Kururin, Sin and Punishment, Banjo-Kazooie, even Punch-Out could fall into this crew if an NSO release means a potential relaunch. Plus I'm not sure how they would even track that when you pay for the whole service and not just specific games.

Like I said, I wish they were translated too, but I never expected them to even come westward, let alone for Nintendo and TOSE to translate a trio of moderately successful GBA games from 20 years ago.