My Recovery tier list.

[CalebSitton]

TR4Q's and i ignore the thread now.....

 

[Dynamism?]

Rank S
Metaknight
Rob
Jigglypuff

Rank A
Pikachu
Wario
Samus
Kirby
Game and Watch
Lucas
Sonic
ZSS
Sheik

Rank B
Princess Peach
Snake
Pit
Toon Link
Luigi

Rank C
Fox
King DDD
Ice Climbers
Diddy Kong
Charizard
Lucario
Yoshi
Falco
Marth
Zelda
Wolf

Rank D
Bowser
Ness
Squirtle
Mario
DK
Captain Falcon
Ike

Rank E
Olimar
Ganondorf
Link
Solo Climber
Ivysaur
Solo Olimar

fix'd =D

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Umm...no. The list is fine the way it is for now.

 

[RednaXale]

Snake is amazing at recovery if you don't mind hurting yourself...

 

[Hive]

I'd stil argue samus is higher... but really the list has become so much more accurate than when it was first made ^^ so I really can't complain... ^^
Thanx to everyone who put so much effort into this list it has helped me understand different character's recoveries a lot better ^^

 

[ShadowLink84]

Why is Wario above Sonic?

Sonic goes a much greater distance, is much less predictable, and is harder to hit.

 

[PKNintendo]

I'd stil argue samus is higher... but really the list has become so much more accurate than when it was first made ^^ so I really can't complain... ^^
Thanx to everyone who put so much effort into this list it has helped me understand different character's recoveries a lot better ^^

Thanks.

 

[Gindler]

Snake is amazing at recovery if you don't mind hurting yourself...

...or if your opponent doesn't even try to edgeguard you. It's just so...Predictable!

 

[Matador]

Post

Alright, this is as convinced as I'm going to get. I can agree that ROB's recovery > Pits on the grounds that he has more chances to recover and is generally safer below the stage. And even though I don't agree that he has better defensive options than Pit, the fact that he often has multiple chances to recover and a pretty good defensive game without airdodging gives him the edge.

I WILL argue, however, that Pit's safer recovering from above because of ROB's blind spot and Pit's ability to protect himself from below. In the event that Pit and ROB both DI and end up high above the stage, I think that Pit has a slightly better chance of safely making it back than ROB. The fact that ROB wins in all other aspects is what pretty much swayed my opinion.

Sorry Andrew XD

 

[Browny]

Either every olimar played ive gone against is the worst brawl player in existence, or his recovery really is that bad. i mean seriously what he he possibly do after being hit by something like a zelda dsmash? hope that youve got a purple in front of your line, even then the only chance of recovering is dependant on whether the other player even knows how to edgehog properly. the day i see any tournament match where an olimar doesnt lose at LEAST 1 stock cheaply to being unable to recover maybe ill see things differently.

Also lol @ sonic being lower than anyone else besides MK/jiggs. im pretty sure he could recover from the very edge of the blast zone, all the way to the opposite edge of FD and go further than the edge by using spinshot, HA and spring. spinshot and spring alone do 3/4 FD's length each btw... I mean seriously, 2/4 of his recovery options give him invincibility frames and are the highest possible speed in each category (sping for vertical, spinshot for horizontal)

 

[Crystanium]

Why is Wario above Sonic?

Sonic goes a much greater distance, is much less predictable, and is harder to hit.

Don't use the word "distance." "Distance" doesn't matter. Haven't you been keeping up with the thread, ShadowLink84?

Sarcasm aside, I've seen Wario's recovery first-hand in Basic Brawl. This guy was good. He kept winning every match. I thought, "Yeah right! You can't do that!" By "that," I meant recover the way he did. Sonic has a pretty good recovery, though, and I don't play either character, so I don't know. If you want, though, you can give some more reasons.

 

[Matador]

I'd give the nod to Sonic because of Wario's horrid upB. The fact that Sonic has so many options and often doesn't need some of them if they should be taken away makes his a bit more reliable. On the off chance that Wario doesn't have his downB halfway or his Bike's on stage, he's in serious trouble, even with his insane airspeed.

 

[aeghrur]

djbrowny, forget spinshot man, for recovering, side-B+jump cancel=AMAZING distance followed by spring=survival.

 

[XienZo]

Either every olimar played ive gone against is the worst brawl player in existence, or his recovery really is that bad. i mean seriously what he he possibly do after being hit by something like a zelda dsmash? hope that youve got a purple in front of your line, even then the only chance of recovering is dependant on whether the other player even knows how to edgehog properly. the day i see any tournament match where an olimar doesnt lose at LEAST 1 stock cheaply to being unable to recover maybe ill see things differently.

His recovery actually depends, if he gets knocked off just a short distance(so the DJ plus Up-B hop is enough to go on the stage), its hard for characters to gimp him by WoP due to Whistle Armor compared to other characters, but its WAY easier to gimp him when he can no longer get back on without the tether. However, he's pretty floaty so he can normally get close enough to fair you off.

If its Zelda's Dsmash, he's screwed, but oh well. And what you MAY see as cheap deaths might just be the deaths needed to keep Olimar from getting OP. I mean, he's way OP on a lot of walk-offs.

 

[Mr.E]

Well, to be fair to Wario, at least his Up-B sweetspots the ledge if he has to use it and his amazing aerial mobility allows him to simply out-maneuver most characters.

The real question is whether Kirby should be above them or not. His air speed is fairly slow and his aerials don't exactly have a ton of range. Small target, though.

 

[German Wolf]

Someone explain Lucas

 

[Gindler]

Well, to be fair to Wario, at least his Up-B sweetspots the ledge if he has to use it and his amazing aerial mobility allows him to simply out-maneuver most characters.

The real question is whether Kirby should be above them or not. His air speed is fairly slow and his aerials don't exactly have a ton of range. Small target, though.

Actually wario's Up-B is one of the few that doesn't sweetspot. Or that's what I read in the wario guide forever ago anyway...

As far as kirby goes, alot of them will hammer the while time they're recovering and alot of people won't try to edgeguard in fear of actually getting hit by one

 

[PhantomX]

Wario's up b only sweetspots as it's ending.

 

[_clinton]

Someone explain Lucas

Lucas has been explained...

Recovery moves
2nd jump<Zap Jump/Magnet Pull
Rope Snake
PK Thunder

Recovery tools
PK Fire
PSI Magnet
Dair/Nair/Fair

His 2nd jump is equal to Ness's/Zamus's/Fox's/Shiek's in vertical height...yet his air speed lets him go futher then all of them (other then when Ness' uses his tools right...in which case they tie...but then Lucas starts using his tools...however to be fair...Ness' single 2nd jump is still tied for the 2nd best in the game IMO still...Lucas' goes a small amount futher then his...however Ness falls slower then Lucas does IMO that evens them out...but whatever)

But then he can also use Zap Jump...which put simple shoots his vertical height up to insane amounts at the cost of his 2nd jump...but if he uses PSI magnet right (as in the right use of it) after that he pushes his vertical distance to insane amounts as well...

Rope Snake is better then Tink's and Link's Hook/Claw shots...and with his normal double jump...you may not even need to use Zap Jump/Magnet pull...but guess what? He can use Rope Snake with those...

PK Thunder for Lucas is harder to cancel out then Ness'...the vertical range on it is greater then Fox's...and Lucas' free fall animation really isn't that bad (guess what people...Ness and Lucas don't have a speed cut for when they free fall...which means you can throw out their recovery moves whenever you want and still go the same vertical distance...they are still helpless and open to attack...but it they aren't as open as like oh say...Fox, Falco, Mario, or Marth if they are free falling)

PK Fire as just a normal tool can be used for defense, or adding a lot of horizontal distance

The faster Lucas is going adds to the pull from Magnet pull...but it also can be useful in stalling his fall...very well actually...and it adds a lot to horizontal distance normally (in one test Lucas went from 9 (his normal falling score) to 13...which was equal to Mario's and Ness' full horizontal distance in the same test (until I threw in the cape for Mario to add that small amount and used PK thunder and Fair with Ness) so that is pretty good...

Dair is hard to get through and comes out on frame 3...it would be better then Ness' Fair if it weren't for the size of Ness' Fair (Ness' Fair comes out on frame 8)

But still...if Lucas is coming down on you...you won't get through him (Samus' Screw Attack doesn't say hi to it)

And while Ness' air are just in general a little bit better then Lucas' (sort of like Lucas' ground game is to Ness' (however People like to say the other one sucks when comparing them to each other...sort of like Ness' recovery really) still...Lucas' air game is pretty good...

 

[PKNintendo]

Does anyone have a sort of Free fall sweetspot list?

 

[Hive]

this is a pretty good tier list, and there has been MUCH arguing and information about how each character uses there recoveries ^^ A lot of this could be very useful,
so I was thinking, maybe you guys can turn the tier list into sort of a more informative thread as well as retaining the debate aspect of this by posting common recovery options next to each character?
It would help keep the thread alive over time for use...

 

[streetracr77]

I really don't think wario's is that good to be 3rd.
Lucas's is great too. I guess you can zap jump but it's kind of hard to pull off...
But overall, it is pretty accurate
Nice job ^.^

 

[Adapt]

Does anyone have a sort of Free fall sweetspot list?

What do you mean? The maximum distance at which a character will sweetspot the ledge?

That would be interesting to see.

 

[PKNintendo]

What do you mean? The maximum distance at which a character will sweetspot the ledge?

That would be interesting to see.

yes.
10chars

 

[Dark.Pch]

I dont agree with where Peach is.She should be in like a Rank. She can make it Back from Nearly anything.If you get launced and dont waste your jump.

- Peach bomber X2
- Toad (yes it gives you distance when used.)
- Float closer to the stage. (About 4-5 secs of floating, And you can even attack while Floating to protect yourself. Any air attack you want.)
- Then finish it off with an Up-B which has so much height

That's alot of distance and recovery options. I Hardly die cause I can't make it back to the stage, if I die, its due to a K.O. I say she belongs ahead of Kirby.

 

[Wafles]

..why is Wolf so low?

 

[Discolicious]

Woah good list but DDD below lucas?

 

[Natch]

Woah good list but DDD below lucas?

Holy ****ing ****balls.

Lucas has been explained...

Recovery moves
2nd jump<Zap Jump/Magnet Pull
Rope Snake
PK Thunder

Recovery tools
PK Fire
PSI Magnet
Dair/Nair/Fair

His 2nd jump is equal to Ness's/Zamus's/Fox's/Shiek's in vertical height...yet his air speed lets him go futher then all of them (other then when Ness' uses his tools right...in which case they tie...but then Lucas starts using his tools...however to be fair...Ness' single 2nd jump is still tied for the 2nd best in the game IMO still...Lucas' goes a small amount futher then his...however Ness falls slower then Lucas does IMO that evens them out...but whatever)

But then he can also use Zap Jump...which put simple shoots his vertical height up to insane amounts at the cost of his 2nd jump...but if he uses PSI magnet right (as in the right use of it) after that he pushes his vertical distance to insane amounts as well...

Rope Snake is better then Tink's and Link's Hook/Claw shots...and with his normal double jump...you may not even need to use Zap Jump/Magnet pull...but guess what? He can use Rope Snake with those...

PK Thunder for Lucas is harder to cancel out then Ness'...the vertical range on it is greater then Fox's...and Lucas' free fall animation really isn't that bad (guess what people...Ness and Lucas don't have a speed cut for when they free fall...which means you can throw out their recovery moves whenever you want and still go the same vertical distance...they are still helpless and open to attack...but it they aren't as open as like oh say...Fox, Falco, Mario, or Marth if they are free falling)

PK Fire as just a normal tool can be used for defense, or adding a lot of horizontal distance

The faster Lucas is going adds to the pull from Magnet pull...but it also can be useful in stalling his fall...very well actually...and it adds a lot to horizontal distance normally (in one test Lucas went from 9 (his normal falling score) to 13...which was equal to Mario's and Ness' full horizontal distance in the same test (until I threw in the cape for Mario to add that small amount and used PK thunder and Fair with Ness) so that is pretty good...

Dair is hard to get through and comes out on frame 3...it would be better then Ness' Fair if it weren't for the size of Ness' Fair (Ness' Fair comes out on frame 8)

But still...if Lucas is coming down on you...you won't get through him (Samus' Screw Attack doesn't say hi to it)

And while Ness' air are just in general a little bit better then Lucas' (sort of like Lucas' ground game is to Ness' (however People like to say the other one sucks when comparing them to each other...sort of like Ness' recovery really) still...Lucas' air game is pretty good...

 

[Levitas]

I dont agree with where Peach is.She should be in like a Rank. She can make it Back from Nearly anything.If you get launced and dont waste your jump.

- Peach bomber X2
- Toad (yes it gives you distance when used.)
- Float closer to the stage. (About 4-5 secs of floating, And you can even attack while Floating to protect yourself. Any air attack you want.)
- Then finish it off with an Up-B which has so much height

That's alot of distance and recovery options. I Hardly die cause I can't make it back to the stage, if I die, its due to a K.O. I say she belongs ahead of Kirby.

Peach's best bet it to float low and parasol up to the edge (or above it). iirc, it's hard to ninja peach due to the parasol being so slow, but it forces a slightly higher recovery which can be punished.

Peach dies to correctly spaced spikes, the parasol doesn't get her back from that.

 

[Adapt]

The parasol has moderate height for an up-B, but her second jump is practically non-existent. Peach excels at horizontal recovery, but her vertical is lacking so she's ok in B rank

 

[Dark.Pch]

Peach's best bet it to float low and parasol up to the edge (or above it). iirc, it's hard to ninja peach due to the parasol being so slow, but it forces a slightly higher recovery which can be punished.

Peach dies to correctly spaced spikes, the parasol doesn't get her back from that.

Anyone dies from correct spikes. So that is not saying much.

Also Peach can make it back from nearly anything no matter where she is. And as for her Up-B, lets face it, there will be times when you have no choice but to recover and syke your enemy out with opening and closing it while moving left and fight. And anyone smart can punish anyone elses recovery. This does not only affect Peach, it affects everyone else too.

And i'll said it again. Peach belongs over jiggs.

 

[Natch]

Anyone dies from correct spikes. So that is not saying much.

Watch this vid starting from 2:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF14aeupJ-U

Peach has a good recovery, but it's not the best vertical wise.

 

[Dark.Pch]

He was only at 41 when that hit. And His up-B is good going up. If he had more Damage, He would have died on the spot or not have been able to make it. You have to take into account when spikes happen, damage determinds wether you have a chance to come back or die on the spot.

And her recovering not being good vertical wise does not mean much. Once again, she can make it back from nearly anything.

 

[Levitas]

Anyone dies from correct spikes. So that is not saying much.

She dies sooner because of a lack of vertical recovery range. That is my point. Jiggs, MK, ROB, Game and Watch, Lucas, even snake can make it back at times when Peach is stuck drifting to her death slowly. This is an advantage that these characters have in their recovery.

Sorry, I will not triple tag each component of your post. The text won't change, even if it's not "palatino linotype size 2 bold and dark orange."

Also Peach can make it back from nearly anything no matter where she is.

as long as she's above a certain line, but I've made that point already. Once again, a bunch of characters can make it back from more nearly anywheres.

and as for her Up-B, lets face it, there will be times when you have no choice but to recover and syke your enemy out with opening and closing it while moving left and fight. And anyone smart can punish anyone elses recovery. This does not only affect Peach, it affects everyone else too.

So your argument is that anyone can punish anyone's recovery. This doesn't help or hurt your point, unless you're claiming that everyone's recovery is on the same level. And we all know that's not what you're arguing.

I wasn't commenting on the fact that peach's recovery can get edgeguarded, I was commenting on the fact that peach's optimal recovery can get edgeguarded easier than some characters abover her.

And i'll said it again. Peach belongs over jiggs.

You can say that, but jiggs covers herself better in the air, crosses under stages like it's nothing if necessary, has certain attacks with ridiculous aerial priority (pound comes to mind) when faced either direction (peach is usually gonna be facing towards the stage anyway, bair's priority is less useful when recovering), a longer vertical range in recovery, and can stall offstage longer.

All peach has going for her is more chances if she gets hit sideways out of her recovery, and a little better spacing control offstage.

Edit: so what if he was at 41? Ness's spike usually kills before that, and peach would have died from that for sure.

 

[Dark.Pch]

She dies sooner because of a lack of vertical recovery range. That is my point. Jiggs, MK, ROB, Game and Watch, Lucas, even snake can make it back at times when Peach is stuck drifting to her death slowly. This is an advantage that these characters have in their recovery.

Snake's recovery can be gimped and he is pretty much a sitting duck, Reason he does not die so easy is cause his has super armor on it and even if you knock him out of it, His defense is high. Lucas Recover can be taken care of easy. I just go out am aim for him if he is close to the stage. if not I grab the edge as soon as he comes in close.

Jiggs recovery is based on her jumps and pound. also when below the stage, one foot stool and she is done.

Rob its about hitting him whlie in his up-B. and make him burn his fuel, also if he lands on the stage and you knock him out he will have trouble recovering again. he needs to be grounded a few sections to fully up-B and get a good height of recovery.

G&W can also be done for, just bait the Dair when you go near him and launch him again. And if he does not daur air or you beat him to it, Its a free hit for you.

And I am not saying this is all easy nether. or else edgeguarding in this game would be godly, which it is not.

as long as she's above a certain line, but I've made that point already. Once again, a bunch of characters can make it back from more nearly anywheres.

You are also forgetting where I said she has more than one recovery option.

- F-B
- Toad
- Floating

So your argument is that anyone can punish anyone's recovery. This doesn't help or hurt your point, unless you're claiming that everyone's recovery is on the same level. And we all know that's not what you're arguing.

Its not what I am agruing about.

I wasn't commenting on the fact that peach's recovery can get edgeguarded, I was commenting on the fact that peach's optimal recovery can get edgeguarded easier than some characters above her.

Her recovery in general makes up for that. with her options on how she can make it back to the stage, the Peach player does not need to worry so much about this. also as I said before, it won't be that simple. Nearly all the deaths I get are due to K.O, not recovery gimps and etc. if I make it back and get sent out, oh well, I work my way back in again. But I always hit the stage.



You can say that, but jiggs covers herself better in the air, crosses under stages like it's nothing if necessary, has certain attacks with ridiculous aerial priority (pound comes to mind) when faced either direction (peach is usually gonna be facing towards the stage anyway, bair's priority is less useful when recovering), a longer vertical range in recovery, and can stall offstage longer.

Her bair are is not less useful when recovering. it is quick, has priority and range. and if I wanted to turn while in the air, all I have to do is tap the stick the other way and toad and bair air for a kick raned attack with priority.

All peach has going for her is more chances if she gets hit sideways out of her recovery, and a little better spacing control offstage.

Again, her options to making it back help.

Edit: so what if he was at 41? Ness's spike usually kills before that, and peach would have died from that for sure.

So what nothing. If He has more %, he would have not made that. And if you was to Spike Peach like you did to that player in the video, Peach could have made that with that much percent for sure. I have survived and made it back from spikes before. you are letting her vertical distance control her whole recovery and the options she has with her recovery in general.

10 Peaches

 

[bludhoundz]

Peach's recovery is good, but lacks vertical height.

That's why Jiggs/Kirby are higher, because their recoveries have good vertical components, and a very similar distance horizontally to Peach's.

 

[Levitas]

Please, please, please use quote tags and make your comments between them. That way I don't have to do a sad amount of copy and pasting to quote you.

Snake's recovery can be gimped and he is pretty much a sitting duck, Reason he does not die so easy is cause his has super armor on it and even if you knock him out of it, His defense is high. Lucas Recover can be taken care of easy. I just go out am aim for him if he is close to the stage. if not I grab the edge as soon as he comes in close.

Jiggs recovery is based on her jumps and pound. also when below the stage, one foot stool and she is done.

Rob its about hitting him whlie in his up-B. and make him burn his fuel, also if he lands on the stage and you knock him out he will have trouble recovering again. he needs to be grounded a few sections to fully up-B and get a good height of recovery.

G&W can also be done for, just bait the Dair when you go near him and launch him again. And if he does not daur air or you beat him to it, Its a free hit for you.

And I am not saying this is all easy nether. or else edgeguarding in this game would be godly, which it is not.

You missed the point. I'm not arguing that all those characters are better at recovering than peach, I'm saying that they all have some aspect in common that's better than peach when it comes to recovery. The fact that she has a bad vertical recovery is a flaw. I have yet to see you acknowledge that directly.

And you're totally off on lucas for the record. PKT2 isn't his perferred method of recovery in most situations.

You are also forgetting where I said she has more than one recovery option.

- F-B
- Toad
- Floating

Cool. It's not that I forgot about them, it's that I was attacking her vertical recovery, and those don't help her recover vertically either. Should I mention how they don't help?

Although I'm pretty sure I mentioned floating. As far as normal recovery options, floating should be taken for granted, and I'm thinking toad is the best mix-up there. Forward b seems pretty meh to me though.

Its not what I am agruing about.

That was my point. You brought up a piece of evidence that only would support that point, which was clearly not the one you intend to make.

Her bair are is not less useful when recovering. it is quick, has priority and range. and if I wanted to turn while in the air, all I have to do is tap the stick the other way and toad and bair air for a kick raned attack with priority.

So to do that, you have to sacrifice time for a reverse toad before using your float, giving opponents more time to set up their spacing for the edgeguard. You're giving them more time to get above you for a spike, and for what? To protect your new front better. Bair's usefulness is diminished in recovery, but not necessarily because it isn't possible to use it towards the stage.

So what nothing. If He has more %, he would have not made that. And if you was to Spike Peach like you did to that player in the video, Peach could have made that with that much percent for sure. I have survived and made it back from spikes before. you are letting her vertical distance control her whole recovery and the options she has with her recovery in general.

Admit that she has a sup-par vertical recovery and I'll get off your case about it. If I have x and y coordinates, I don't dismiss a small y value because my x value happens to be large. They're both important.

And you saying that peach could survive a spike from ness at 41% from tht spacing is absurd. Don't argue that point.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Please, please, please use quote tags and make your comments between them. That way I don't have to do a sad amount of copy and pasting to quote you.

You missed the point. I'm not arguing that all those characters are better at recovering than peach, I'm saying that they all have some aspect in common that's better than peach when it comes to recovery. The fact that she has a bad vertical recovery is a flaw. I have yet to see you acknowledge that directly.

And you're totally off on lucas for the record. PKT2 isn't his perferred method of recovery in most situations.



Cool. It's not that I forgot about them, it's that I was attacking her vertical recovery, and those don't help her recover vertically either. Should I mention how they don't help?

Although I'm pretty sure I mentioned floating. As far as normal recovery options, floating should be taken for granted, and I'm thinking toad is the best mix-up there. Forward b seems pretty meh to me though.



That was my point. You brought up a piece of evidence that only would support that point, which was clearly not the one you intend to make.



So to do that, you have to sacrifice time for a reverse toad before using your float, giving opponents more time to set up their spacing for the edgeguard. You're giving them more time to get above you for a spike, and for what? To protect your new front better. Bair's usefulness is diminished in recovery, but not necessarily because it isn't possible to use it towards the stage.


Admit that she has a sup-par vertical recovery and I'll get off your case about it. If I have x and y coordinates, I don't dismiss a small y value because my x value happens to be large. They're both important.

And you saying that peach could survive a spike from ness at 41% from tht spacing is absurd. Don't argue that point.

I am gonna put it like this, from what you are saying going on about how her F-B is Meh. You sir, dont fully understand her fully and how to recover well with her. But if you are gonna question this from a Peach expert. Then I have nothing more to say to you.

And her vertical recover is not as bad as you and the rest make it out to be. You are letting that one thing affect her whole recovery game. If all Peach players were top base thier recovery on that, she be easy to kill when comming back. But she is not. Because she has options for making it back.

also if I can make it back from nearly anything. And she is not a character you can just gimp, thanks to her recovery in general. again stop letting this one lil thing affect her whole recovery. I already said she is not die cause she cant make it back. if I die, I die by touching the stage and getting K.O out if anything.

also I would not say peach cant not survive that spike at 41% in the same position that the player was if I have not done that before. all I need is my second jump.

 

[Levitas]

As much as I hate it when people underestimate lucas's recovery, it's entirely possible that I'm committing the same offense. The problem is when I say vertical recovery, you say "doesn't matter"

When I say "it matters in this case" you say "it clearly doesn't"

When a vid is posted by someone in a case where it matters, andmost of lucas's vertical up b range is used to make it back, you say "Peach can make it back, there, too".

I don't know which vid you watched, but you'd better start explaining how peach even has close to lucas's vertical up b range.

As far as forward b goes, I know it got a buff from melee. I heard that you can grab the edge from it. so logical conclusion is that you're gonna use it to either go for the edge or above the edge onto the stage. It's got a slow startup, so if you're going for the edge, prepare to get ninja'd. It has winddown, so if you're going above the stage, prepare to eat charged smash.

It's like a far slower and less ranged fox illusion, except that it does some damage.

Also, you keep saying that you can make it back from near anything. That's cool, except that a LOT of characters can make it back from near anything. Lucas can make it back from more near anythings. Rob can, too. Same with pit and kirby. Jiggs and metaknight can make it back from very nearly literally anything that doesn't kill them outright. So peach isn't special when she can make it back from "near anything"

 

[Dark.Pch]

I am not saying peach is special because she can make it back from nearly anything. I dont care about that. As long as she can do it, then thats what matters to me. screw the other characters. I care only about Peach.

Now you are getting to some obvious stuff with her F-B. Now why would I F-B when my enemy is near me? same goes for a reverse toad. I will do it when high in the air or to a point where you can't touch me. See how that works? learn what you can do and use your head. I recover as high as possible so I can be at the center of the stage coming down. and with Peach's options, I can do that easy when sent flying off the stage. and once in the center of the stage, it wont be hard for me to land. really if I have platforms at that.

The examples you are giving out are something that a stupid player would do. I would not do any of this near you and nether would any smart Peach player.