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My Recovery tier list.

bludhoundz

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
525
Location
New York, NY
Well, it counts to how well the people he can gimp should place. I still call BS on Zelda being easily gimped by Ness. clinton?
Yeah, but it doesn't move his own recovery up on the list at all. I guess it's relative because if others drop he rises, but I thought this thread was about character specific recoveries, not character specific gimps.

Also Zelda is not easily gimped by Ness. Once the Zelda player inputs up b, Ness has no more options than anyone else. PKT isn't going to get a lot of kills in this one.. in fact I'd say this is one of the matchups were his PKT is less likely to get gimps. Reflector + really far up b = fairly immune to medium speed aimable projectile.
 

Judge Judy

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
1,638
Why is Mario below Ness and Squirtle? Mario has a lot more edgeguard defenses than both of them plus his Up B is invincible and comes out quickly. The big problem with Mario's recovery is his Up B length which gives him good vertical height but only decent horizontal. Mario can protect his recovery very well but he needs to protect his DJ to be able to recover from a distance. He needs good defensive options to recover and he has those options. Mario's recovery length is decent and is difficult to edgeguard. FLUDD is a major defense for a varity of reason: HIHL can stop most aerials, FLUDD stops the momentum of guarders attempting to approach, FLUDD causes characters to go very high if it hits them while they are using a jump. Cape negates projectile spam, can be used to stall in the air, and can be used to sometimes directly protect against atks. Fireballs go without saying, they can be used to make approaching Mario in the air difficult. Mario's aerials are quick but saying that they are a good defense as well isn't too important since a lot of characters can say the same thing anyway.
 

XienZo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
1,287
I think its because squirtle can float his way back without anything most of the time(while defending himself) and Ness is currently under debate.
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
Jigglypuff is faster in the air, that's why.
Hm. Well, I guess we only need one character from Hal Laboratories to land in Rank S. I'm not surprised that "the answer to all of our problems" would land in first place. Heck, when I was making my own list, Meta Knight was in first.

Still, I am wondering why Pit is below Sonic.
 

AndrewCarlson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
367
Why do people keep *****ing about Ness position! He's in D rank! How much lower can he go? Lower than Mario, Falco, Ike and Wolf into D rank. Im 99% sure Ness has a better recovery than each of them. His double jump actually matches close to Mario's vertical distance. His air movement beats them all out. (equal to Mario in forward momentum, but Ness can easily move back and forth in a faster manner than Mario)

Falco, Ike and Wolf have trash air movement, and their recovery patterns are predictable. I swear, I might just move Ness below them, just to shut people up, seriously is he THAT hated!
Ness's air speed is 14th overall, tied with Mario. And Wolf has the 4th best air speed! Ike and Falco are 16th and 18th respectively, so they are not shabby by any means either.
 

Judge Judy

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
1,638
I think its because squirtle can float his way back without anything most of the time(while defending himself) and Ness is currently under debate.
Yah, I'd have to agree with that, that only thing I'd see Mario having over him is his Up B and a few extra defense options. IDK, I see Mario as being a very difficult opponent to edgeguard, but his recovery length is still only decent. How important really is edgeguarding defense vs recovery length? Also, which is considered more important, horizontal air speed or moves that can be simply used for anti-edguarding?
 

Judge Judy

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
1,638
What the hell is air speed, anyway and how do you rank it?
There was a thread a while back for horizontal air speed which was tested by marking each character's distance from a single full jump on FD. The starting point was a ledge and the ending point was the character's distance from the ledge towards the center of the stage. It was found that Yoshi has the best horizontal air speed. The ranks were from A-F, Mario and Ness were in the B rank. It's a poorly phrased term and the test was imperfect, but the percent error wasn't too great.
 

AndrewCarlson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
367
Still, I am wondering why Pit is below Sonic.
Me too. He has 3 mid-air jumps and can glide, not to mention Wings of Icarus has the greatest vertical distance out of any Up-B move. It's usually the last option for a Pit, but it's not easily gimpable when you fly up vertically and over the opponent to recover. Either that, or recover by going under the stage to the other side.
 

Undrdog

#1 Super Grimer!
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
5,587
Location
Aberdeen
Me too. He has 3 mid-air jumps and can glide, not to mention Wings of Icarus has the greatest vertical distance out of any Up-B move. It's usually the last option for a Pit, but it's not easily gimpable when you fly up vertically and over the opponent to recover. Either that, or recover by going under the stage to the other side.
And that's only one part of his recovery. lol Seriously S-Rank without a doubt.
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
I thought aerial movement left-right was called aerial mobility but I guess that's a compound of both falling speed and air speed, then.
 

Darkest-Link

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
171
MKs is decent at most, it doesnt go high at all, and whats the point of going far? MK has wings he doesnt need to go far
 

AndrewCarlson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
367
MKs is decent at most, it doesnt go high at all, and whats the point of going far? MK has wings he doesnt need to go far
You mean just his Up-B, or his recovery overall? Meta Knight has 5 mid-air jumps, the ability to glide, and an Up-B that not only provides great knockback and speed but also initiates ANOTHER glide. He has the best recovery by far, no doubt about that.
 

PKNintendo

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
3,679
My mistake. Wolf is has a good forward momentum, but what about moving backwars eh? Up B ledge snap...
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
Me too. He has 3 mid-air jumps and can glide, not to mention Wings of Icarus has the greatest vertical distance out of any Up-B move. It's usually the last option for a Pit, but it's not easily gimpable when you fly up vertically and over the opponent to recover. Either that, or recover by going under the stage to the other side.
No doubt about that! I tested this out one time to see who could make it the highest on a stage that I created. The stage had about thirteen platforms to jump on. Pit was the only one who could make it all the way up with his three jumps (four, if you count his first jump from the ground) as well as his Wings of Icarus. King DeDeDe was in second, I believe, but was actually tied with R.O.B.
 

Undrdog

#1 Super Grimer!
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
5,587
Location
Aberdeen
Well, technically Pit can use his Wings of Icarus twice plus the three jumps. But I'm not too sure that counts for recovery. lol

EDIT: Yes, very happy. =P
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
Well, technically Pit can use his Wings of Icarus twice plus the three jumps. But I'm not too sure that counts for recovery. lol

EDIT: Yes, very happy. =P
I like to use that when I am at Norfair and that tidal wave of lava is coming my way. Have your safety pod you people, but I'm going to use my Wings of Icarus, cancel it, jump three times and use Wings of Icarus again! :laugh:
 

ApplesOfDoom

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Messages
217
Location
Mississauga, Canada
I still think peach should be higher.
With her peach bomber, her float, AND her umbrella, she has one of the best horizontal recoveries.
Vertical recovery is lacking, yes, but most peaches will not put themselves in a position so that her recovery won't reach the stage.

Is her recovery gimpable? yes.
If she is using her umbrella, she can close and open it at will, and therefore making it slightly harder to gimp/come in contact with her. Good peaches use this well. They will not just go directly to the stage, oblivious to where the enemy is.

Peaches float can cover very large areas, approximately a bit more than half of FD. Though her float is a bit slow, she can still control her DI.

Peach bomber will be used if offstage, and there is no need for vertical recovery.
The bad thing about peach bomber is, that near the end of the animation, there is small lag. Peach bomber does cover good distance, though.

When a peach falls off the stage horizontally, she would not be an idiot go straight to use umbrella. Most of the time a peach will use any other option aside from her umbrella and second jump because those are vital for vertical recovery.

A very bad thing for peach though, is that if she is under a stage on the side... lets say under the lip of FD, shes facing the opposite direction of FD, and she used umbrella. Because of her inability to grab the ledge while her umbrella is open, and while she is facing away from FD, this pretty much screws her over. That doesn't mean its impossible to get back up while in this state, though. If peach is high enough, she can close the umbrella, and grab the stage ledge. If she's too low she'll fall to her death.

Yeah, peaches vertical recovery isn't great, but it's not useless. Her horizontal recovery is really the opposite though, as she has many options to get back on the stage.
Peach still is way too low.
 

Chis

Finally a legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
4,797
Location
London, England
NNID
ArcadianPirate
PKNintendo, after your random Pit placement after a bunch of mains arrived to this board you list has become utter Bull**** It's obvious you're not going to fix it properly and you just want a higher post count. Useless list is useless.
 

manhunter098

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
1,100
Location
Orlando, Sarasota, Tampa (FL)
Why is Wolf so much lower than Fox? His recovery is really only slightly worse, and his side b actually goes a great distance, plus he doesnt fall as fast either. So really overall they are about even.
 

Judge Judy

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
1,638
I still think Mario should be looked into more, he has some of the best edgeguarding defenses around.
 

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
Why is Wolf so much lower than Fox? His recovery is really only slightly worse, and his side b actually goes a great distance, plus he doesnt fall as fast either. So really overall they are about even.
Fox can shine...proper use of it adds to his horizontal recovery...not much though...however the fact that he can shine is one thing...oh and his 2nd jump is better at helping him with his side B...

Wolf's side B from using the whole thing goes higher then Fox's however you need space to see that...but still it is good...

Wolf's Up B is just better then Fox's...until the move ends...but even then Fox has limited movement as well...just not as much as Wolf

I really don't see why Fox is in Rank B...but I feel a lot of characters that are in Rank B don't belong there...
 

Adapt

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
1,489
Location
NS, Canada
I like to use that when I am at Norfair and that tidal wave of lava is coming my way. Have your safety pod you people, but I'm going to use my Wings of Icarus, cancel it, jump three times and use Wings of Icarus again! :laugh:
Just airdodge it... Norfair's lava wave is ridiculously easy to avoid.

Fox can shine...proper use of it adds to his horizontal recovery...not much though...however the fact that he can shine is one thing...oh and his 2nd jump is better at helping him with his side B...

Wolf's side B from using the whole thing goes higher then Fox's however you need space to see that...but still it is good...

Wolf's Up B is just better then Fox's...until the move ends...but even then Fox has limited movement as well...just not as much as Wolf

I really don't see why Fox is in Rank B...but I feel a lot of characters that are in Rank B don't belong there...
Wolf has terrible vertical recovery... while Fox's is decent at least. However Fox is clearly ranked too high, but I believe he should be higher than wolf and falco.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
Wolfs recovery isn't horrible, neither vertical nor horicontal. His problem is, that he has no move, that covers both...it's either one or the other. that's his problem
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
It's random, just like everything in Brawl. But why do you care? Wolf can just jump again...
 

Chis

Finally a legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
4,797
Location
London, England
NNID
ArcadianPirate
So if I said Sonic is S rank without a doubt would you move him like the PKNintendo?
 

DarkISDA

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
1,027
Location
St-Anne-Des-Plaines, Qc
People usually use it far away, and you're not so vulnerable after, I mean, you can airdodge, attack, etc. He don't have the best recovery, but he should be placed higher IMO.
 
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