Infinitysmash
Smash Champion
I was looking around at the other boards and I noticed that there is a lot of stage discussion going on. I wanted to be at least a little proactive and get a stage discussion started in the Metaknight forums because other than a short list in the Metaknight guide I don't see any discussion going on.
Format and Objective
We'll be discussing stages on a weekly-ish basis and rating them on a 0-100 scale. (I'd do 0-10, but a lot of people like putting in numbers like 8.5 so the 100 just makes this easier) I'll post a great big picture of the stage and put the rating right below the picture. Under that will be characters that the stage is good to counterpick against (i.e Pick this stage against Snake, Donkey Kong and Marth) The stage in discussion will have some question marks next to it. (i.e ???/100) In the end what we'll hopefully have is a comprehensive guide to what stages you should go to as Metaknight against certain characters and what stages to ban against certain characters. Pretty valuable information since at least 1/2 of the games you play over the course of the day will be on a couterpicked stage.
Please offer any input you have and then add what your personal rating is for the stage. I'll be averaging the well-thought-out posts together and that will be the rating I post. I'll even list the names of the people I use for the average, so do a good job and you'll get good recognition
Let's start things off with the neutrals. I'm going to leave this discussion up until March 2nd (a week from Monday) and start rotating stages every week after that.
Edit 1 - A good point made by Babar-Thorbald:
Important Player Input
If you watch their videos a lot of the best Metaknight players end up on this stage or Battlefield as their neutral. Mew2King has also counterpicked this stage on more than one occassion.
This stage is not optimal against characters with projectiles or grab release combos, such as: Snake, Diddy Kong, Falco, Yoshi and Zero Suit Samus (although you can be campy on the platform against Snake)
This stage is optimal against characters that force you to approach them but have no projectile, such as: anyone heavy that isn't Wario (his Waft and forward smash are really dangerous near the edge) and most mid-range characters. Just be careful near the sides of the stage since you die at early percents this way.
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Important Player Input
Other Important Notes
I copied this list straight from .Tero's post. He wrote an amazing review, he was just missing the grade for the stage.
That sums up the 'other important info' part.
Counterpick this stage against:
Snake, Falco, Marth, Zero Suit Samus (or anyone else with a tether recovery) and Diddy.
Don't counterpick this stage against:
No one, really. You have better options against the ditto and other jump-happy characters, but there's no one in particular that makes this stage bad.
Video references
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBzCHwiSroU <--- starts at roughly 5:00
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Discuss.
Format and Objective
We'll be discussing stages on a weekly-ish basis and rating them on a 0-100 scale. (I'd do 0-10, but a lot of people like putting in numbers like 8.5 so the 100 just makes this easier) I'll post a great big picture of the stage and put the rating right below the picture. Under that will be characters that the stage is good to counterpick against (i.e Pick this stage against Snake, Donkey Kong and Marth) The stage in discussion will have some question marks next to it. (i.e ???/100) In the end what we'll hopefully have is a comprehensive guide to what stages you should go to as Metaknight against certain characters and what stages to ban against certain characters. Pretty valuable information since at least 1/2 of the games you play over the course of the day will be on a couterpicked stage.
Please offer any input you have and then add what your personal rating is for the stage. I'll be averaging the well-thought-out posts together and that will be the rating I post. I'll even list the names of the people I use for the average, so do a good job and you'll get good recognition
Let's start things off with the neutrals. I'm going to leave this discussion up until March 2nd (a week from Monday) and start rotating stages every week after that.
Edit 1 - A good point made by Babar-Thorbald:
I think that you guys shouldn't rate this stage that high:
It is a good mk stage: the platform is useful against some campy characters, and works wonder with the UpB (because of the auto-lag cancel), but stages like delfino, RC, halberd etc... are way much better.
Then were would be the difference between a 85, a 90 or a 95 out of 100?
Let's say that this stage is above average (that is true), then let's rate it above average: like 65 or 60 out of 100, but 80 seems to be too high for me (because, even if mk ***** people there, he could do as well in a lot of stages, then what would be the differents rates: 80, 80,85, 90... ETC... Then, 60 for FD which is mk's worts stage... And even with this stage being his worst, it would be rated above average...
I personnaly think that if you have 100 points to rate any stages, it would be dumb to forget about the 60 first points.
Let's use every points, or, at least, the majority.
(like, for example putting a 40 out of 100 to FD, because it's not like mk cannot do anything there, and a 95 to RC and Luigi's mansion, then rating the other stages considering these stages...)
Then, we should, to my opinion, make a
"-ban/try not to play on this stage when playing against: ... Some characters
-use this stage as a counterpick/try to play on this stage when playing against: ... Some characters"
SMASHVILLE
A dog with a guitar being watched by a space-fox and a yellow lightning-rat. Welcome to the wonderful world of Nintendo.
75/100
A dog with a guitar being watched by a space-fox and a yellow lightning-rat. Welcome to the wonderful world of Nintendo.
75/100
Important Player Input
85/100
MK excels here. Getting an opponent off the edge is key to getting kills and racking extra damage. You have a small enough stage, in Smashville, to do this with ease if you know what you're doing. You're allowed enough room to manuever around, and do your thing as well while not off stage.
The moving platform doesn't really hinder his ability to gimp either. You can usually read when an opponent is going to attempt to make it to the platform rather then the ledge, and react accordingly. Most characters have a good bit of lag behind they landing when they recover so you have plenty of time to throw in a shuttle loop or nair to throw them back off again. It also has opportunities to take away from those that like to release grab like Marth and Yoshi.
But even with this, some characters may outclass him here. Diddy and Snake, in particular, can take alot of control on this stage with a flat terrain and a single moving platform, and it may not always be the best stage to take them to, and possibly a few others. There's usually a better option, but it's still definitely one of his better stages to rely on.
Other Important NotesSmashville is probably his best neutral. Easy to recover under it if you have to, platform helps MK against campy characters and helps him a lot vs IC's. The platforms also help his gimping game a lot more than they help people recover vs him; you can stand on the platform and drop/jump to where you need to where as a stage like FD you would have to jump a bit further out there and try to judge them well without being able to preserve jumps.
Only person I could see MK not taking to this stage would be Snake, and even then I don't think Snake dominates MK on this stage or anything.
If you watch their videos a lot of the best Metaknight players end up on this stage or Battlefield as their neutral. Mew2King has also counterpicked this stage on more than one occassion.
This stage is not optimal against characters with projectiles or grab release combos, such as: Snake, Diddy Kong, Falco, Yoshi and Zero Suit Samus (although you can be campy on the platform against Snake)
This stage is optimal against characters that force you to approach them but have no projectile, such as: anyone heavy that isn't Wario (his Waft and forward smash are really dangerous near the edge) and most mid-range characters. Just be careful near the sides of the stage since you die at early percents this way.
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Delfino Plaza
Beachfront property.
90/100
Beachfront property.
90/100
Important Player Input
I don't care what stage next ...
Summary of Delfino Plaza:
General Stuff about the Stage:
- There are 9 places where the moving platform can land
- 5 of the 9 places have water
- 7 walkoff edges in 4 places
- 8 walls in 4 places
Pros:
- Mk can Dtilt lock against Walls in 7 walls in 4 places
- You can jump through the stage from below, meaning you can attack your opponent from everywhere, you can suprise him with shuttle loop and you can start uair strings from below.
- You can rack up % quick if you catch your opponent in the water (Dair/Nair)
- MK can control the stage almost all the time
- Dair is extremely good against opponents trying to attack from below
- Platform on the moving part of the stage can help you with SL/Nado/Combos
- You can get some early Dair kills at a few places
- Characters with teather recovery can't stage spike you on the moving platform
- Music is kickass, lol
Cons:
- Characters with grab release chaingrabs can kill you at transformations with Walkoff edges
- Transformations can save your opponents from gimps
- Water can save your opponents from gimps
Good posts and more information:
I_Am_Infinity
Babar-Thorbald
Good Video to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBzCHwiSroU
Good CP Stage against:
- Snake
- Falco
- Diddy
- ZSS
- Marth
90/100
Pros:
Multiple approach options - You can pretty much approach anyone from anywhere on the normal section of this stage without any problem. This helps out with the next part...
Stage control - It's very easy to control this whole stage the entire time it's in its normal form and it's still super easy to control every transformation except for the area with the staircases in the middle. This is actually incredibly important because if you control the stage then you have momentum and you control the game. If you control the game then you win, this is the easiest stage for Metaknight to control the game on IMO.
Cons:
Losing gimps to stage changes - On occasion you can lose a kill to the stage changing and saving them from below.
Certain parts of the stage - There are a couple of stage changes that allow walk-off kills by being grab-released by some characters. Just be careful in these areas and this shouldn't be an issue.
Tricks:
Water! - The section with the pillars and the water in between is fun when people get trapped between the pillars with you. All you have to do is mash the jump button and the A button and you'll hop out of the water and neutral air them over and over and there's not much anyone can do about it because it hits them back into the water and you get out faster than they do. You can also 'lock' people with down air in the water next to the island, it's just hard to follow them.
'Sharking' - You can approach from under the stage, but this should be pretty obvious and intuitive. Just be patient when you're approaching or people will punish you. Remember that you have 5 jumps, so you can punish people's shields with up multiple airs and either tornado or shuttle loop.
Other notes:
This is my personal favorite stage. The stage layout practically caters to Metaknight and I honestly believe this is his best stage as it offers more and better options than any other stage and it offers them in an easy-to-use manner. You also have an answer to nearly every approach on this stage because if someone tries to approach you from under you can simply tornado them up and gain control again.
Counterpick this primarily against Snake, Falco, ZSS, and Marth; though it works great against any of the Space Animals and nearly anyone with less than 3 or 4 jumps.
Don't counterpick this stage against other Metaknights or any of the Dreamland cast. You've got a better option against DeDeDe (Brinstar) and Kirby does just as well here as Metaknight so it's better to take him to a neutral (unless you've got brass balls and feel like picking it anyway).
90/100
Delfino plazza... One of my favorite counterpicks (if not the one).
There are a lot of little tricks that you've got to know about this stage:
-You can Dtilt lock against walls in 4 zones.
-When you go to the golden place with the huge star, know that you can go through the ground, at the border, but only from below. (I'm pretty sure that not everyone knows that, because it looks too thick to go through... then, a nado from below, or a SL can surprise few opponents).
-When the flying stage starts to fall, if you see your opponent volunteerely falling in order to reach the ground before you can see it, don't be afraid to fast fall Dair or fast fall nair toward them in order to get an easy kill diagonnaly downward...
I haven't killed many people like that, because only few people try to reach the ground before it's actually possible to see it, but if you ever see anyone do that, you'll have a lot of fun seeing them dying^^.
(I've killed at 40% last time I used it, like three days ago...)
-When you are on the flying platform, abuse the fact to attack from below: uair strings, nado (be sure you jumped juste before using it) or SL (even cooler because the platform allows you to auto-cancel the lag) are safe and really annoying moves if you don't get too predictible.
-In the part with lots of cliffs, be SL spammy!
Whenever a character fall on the water, Dair string works well...
-When the stage falls, If there is a platform high placed (generally in the middle of the stage), know that at the last moment of the flying stage's disappearance, the ceiling is really close to the highest platform: if you time your Uthrow correctly, you can get an easy kill... (though I rarely managed to do this).
-When you are on the island: if someone fall on the water, a good thing to do is to nado from the island to above the character, and then go back on the island before the nado's ending: it's very annoying.
-When you are on the place with tiles, know that if you dtilt in the middle on the stage, if you use Dtilt, the sword will attack diagonally downward: it's great against small characters that would hide near the wall, but out of reach from other attacks.
One of the most useful videos in order to understand this stage: (starts at 5 minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBzCHwiSroU
-Use this map as a countepick against:
(anyone, but especially)
-Snake (any moving stage is fine against him)
-Falco (when the stage is flying, falcos usually mess up with the recovery: if they don't aim their illusion perfectly, they will go through the stage, and fall under the stage... Which will lead them to death.)
-Diddy (catching the nanas from below is way easier than trying to catch'em when diddy is actually throwing'em at you...)
Well, I think I've said everything I know about this stage (I mean, that can be useful in an actual game).
Other Important Notes
I copied this list straight from .Tero's post. He wrote an amazing review, he was just missing the grade for the stage.
- There are 9 places where the moving platform can land
- 5 of the 9 places have water
- 7 walkoff edges in 4 places
- 8 walls in 4 places
That sums up the 'other important info' part.
Counterpick this stage against:
Snake, Falco, Marth, Zero Suit Samus (or anyone else with a tether recovery) and Diddy.
Don't counterpick this stage against:
No one, really. You have better options against the ditto and other jump-happy characters, but there's no one in particular that makes this stage bad.
Video references
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBzCHwiSroU <--- starts at roughly 5:00
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DOUBLE THREAT WEEK!
Final Destination
Boring picture is boring.
??/100
Luigi's Mansion
This is what happens when you spam the B button.
??/100
Final Destination
Boring picture is boring.
??/100
Luigi's Mansion
This is what happens when you spam the B button.
??/100
Discuss.