Metaknight Stage Discussion

[OverLade]

Japes is better against Falco than Final D easily.

Everyone should remember that how good stages are is relative, as one stage may not be BAD but in comparison to his best stages it's not good.

FD < SV < Weegees < RBC < Frigate.

Just an example and me spreading my Frigate Bias.

 

[Babar-Thorbald]

is japes really worse than fd? =/ most tournaments in my area ban that stupid stage lolll.
i know he can CG to spike into clap trap you... although that is very situational. aside from that his lasers seem easier to deal with on that stage than FD. at least the stage is not flat. also he is a fast faller so he must have some trouble getting out of the water, right? i know his forward b could be used well by going under the stage and jumping from plat to plat with it. the stage having a high ceiling doesn't affect mk too much, since he doesn't often kill falco off the top of the stage anyway... and his up smash won't kill you until reallyyy high percent with good DI.

In japes, Falco's cg means almost guaranteed kill...
Nothing more to say.
(look for the sethlon vs. fogo on japes to figure this out.

 

[OverLade]

Barbar I'm pretty sure that doesn't work against MK actually. If you DI to the right against the water current you can get out of the water before you hit the deadzone.

At least I'm pretty sure, someone test.

 

[Babar-Thorbald]

Barbar I'm pretty sure that doesn't work against MK actually. If you DI to the right against the water current you can get out of the water before you hit the deadzone.

At least I'm pretty sure, someone test.

Well, I've tried only once to play against a falco in japes... And I've been totally destroyed.
Maybe I dind't DI well this time, but I don't think so.
(I refused to try to play another game in this stage against the falco player, since he screwed me sooo much, and I usually beat him more than he does to me in "normal" stages (including FD).

 

[xLeafybug =D]

Wait, when did we start talking about Japes?

 

[Babar-Thorbald]

When I said that it was even worse than FD for mk vs. falco...

 

[Babar-Thorbald]

Well, I think it's time to talk about another stage and to add the inputs, infinity... It seems that people didn't have that much to say about FD and Luigi's mansion :s.


(I purposely didn't edit my last post in order to bump this thread)

 

[Vel]

I agree with Babar - time to move on

I recommend Battlefield/Rainbow Cruise for the next 2

 

[Crizthakidd]

i like BF more then FD, but smashville the best. BF for dittos and i hate playing snake on fd. he owns the ground there.

japes vs falco is masacare but u can deal with it, its a matter of who gets that momentum/ calp trap death first XDD

 

[V]

Infinity wanted more input on FD, so i'll throw in my 2 cents.

Some basics about the stage that make it one of MK's weakest stages:

1. Completely flat with no platforms. This game is mostly dominated by campers, with MK being one of the few aggresive players to dominate. Many characters you will see at tourneys are campers. This right away gives them a little help ( there is no advantage over MK ). This also makes your approaches WAY more obvious, giving them more time to react accordingly. Everybody knows platforms help MK a lot. He can keep characters above him for a long time with U-air at least, easier to approach campers. FD lacks these characteristics.

2. This stage is BIG, which for MK isn't such a great thing. Small stages allow MK to dominate much more, against campers and non-campers alike. They allow us to get characters off the stage and into gimping postion much easier. It's harder to do this on FD.

3. Harder to glide under the stage. If for some reason you are over the edge, and miss a shuttle loop or they are edge hogging, it's more difficult to glide to the other side. I believe when gliding, the ratio to downward distance to upward distance is like 1 to 1.5? (correct me if I'm wrong). This means you have to go down quite a distance to make it up to the platform again, and unless your glide is done perfectly, it's much harder to make it. This also gives them more time to make it to the other side while you're trying to make it there.

4. This kinda has already been stated with the camping thing, but some of MK's worst matches are Snake, Falco, and Diddy. 3 characters who have a clear advantage over MK on this stage, immediate disadvantage in your match. If you play here and lose to a Snake, you can't counter LM effectively, and if they know this they'll ban RC or DP, giving you ONE stage to work with, and if you win, they still hav FD or SV to choose from depending on which one you ban. This is Falco's best neutral against you, and same goes for Diddy.

So you definitely have better options out there than FD. In some cases, I'd definitely ban it or strike it. You have no reason to come back to this stage after the first match in your set.

My 2 cents have been said

 

[OverLade]

I dont like Weegees because heavies can tank there and certain characters can tech chase/Jab lock you there. I'd rather not throw in unecessary variables.

But it's still a good stage for MK. I havent used it so I wont rate it.

 

[noodles]

ban halberd on snake

 

[I LAG]

wow this thread is dead. I think this thread would really help alot of mk mains.
for each stage there should be:
1. stage rating overall
2. who to cp this stage against
3. who to ban this stage against
4. tips and strategies on how to play on the particular stage
5. mks advantages on the stage
6. mks disadvantages

i would really like to know more about luigis mansion. i heard its a good cp stage for mk but i dont know any strategies or anything on that stage.

i dont really know enough about mk to contribute to this thread but i would like to learn which stages are good and bad for him against certain characters and strategies on how to play against them on the particular stage.

 

[DMG]

I am convinced Smashville is his best neutral, unless Delfino is a neutral at your tourney.

Luigi's is a fine stage for MK even against Snake/Olimar/others who abuse it.

Japes is fine vs Falco.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

MK on Weegees is good.
The ceiling can lead to juggle traps with Uair and Utilt I guess.
There's a lot of room for gimping, especially knocking them under the stage, as it's hard for them to get uout from under it and recover.
MK doesn't really have any upward killers other than Uair chaining, so the high ceiling isn't too big of a deal, and the far horizontal boundaries don't mess you up either because of your recovery.

I say anywhere from 70-80 out of 100.

 

[OverLade]

I am convinced Smashville is his best neutral, unless Delfino is a neutral at your tourney.

Luigi's is a fine stage for MK even against Snake/Olimar/others who abuse it.

Japes is fine vs Falco.

I agree.

On BF certain characters can camp under the platforms pretty well, and you can't approach them from above.

Simplicity favors MK in this case.

 

[Crizthakidd]

some mks like platforms others dont. each matchup calls for something diff. id much rather falco on smashvile then bf and diddy too.

but then id like fd against like marth or something

 

[OverLade]

some mks like platforms others dont. each matchup calls for something diff. id much rather falco on smashvile then bf and diddy too.

but then id like fd against like marth or something

Falco on BF or yoshis is brutal. Approaching him is incredibly frustrating because of the platofrms, I'd prefer FD even, though SV would be the best.

But against Marth, FD is bad because it's harder to gimp him, and with good DI he can live longer. I'd prefer SV or yoshis vs. Marth.

Depending on how easy your opponent is to damage/Kill determines how big the optimal stage should be. Heavy characters are harder to fight on wide stages, as well as characters that you could normally easily outpressure because it gives them more space to play comfortably.

 

[Tero.]

So we're actually still discussing FD and Luigi's Mansion?
Wow this topic is dead.

If yes I'm going to write something about each stage and we should definitly move on.

 

[Crizthakidd]

lets move on to pokemon stadium and japes

the most epic camp / planking stages FTW

 

[Hadesflame]

hey can someone give me the counter pick stages against other characters if I'm MK?

 

[Tero.]

Hadesflame: Rainbow Cruise, Delfino, Smashville if you prefer neutrals.

Also I'm just going to post something about Final Destination and Luigi's Mansion before we continue to the next stage.

Final Destination:

Actually this stage isn't that bad at all, it's just that FD doesn't favor MK that much like other neutrals/stages and most of your opponent's do better on in.
FD is his worst neutral and it would be best to strike it first. Campy characters are just going to outcamp you.
Ledges aren't that bad for you, you still have more than enough options.
Yeah actually I can't say much more.

Pro's:

• Ledges will screw your opponents recovery more that yours.
• opponents without projectiles have a hard time approaching without getting predictable
• No bad influences that handicap MK

I can't really add more.

Con's:

• Opponents with projectiles outcamp you
• No platforms to do stuff
• large area which reduces MK's preassure game
• This stage is better for most characters than for MK

Con's do overweight the pro's here.

_________________________________________________

Luigi's Mansion:

Stage boundaries are crazy, LM is definitly one of the biggest stages (if not the biggest one), so you're going to survive much longer than usual (assuming you have proper DI) but so are your opponents if you aren't able to gimp them.
Gimping is actually pretty good because of the ledge structure.

You can spam Tornado against most characters to built up damage, just remember that good players will actually punish you for it.
You can dtilt lock after ftilts to rack up damage and finish off with fsmash/dsmash (credits to infinity).

Multiple floors give MK good options to attack from below with Uairs and stuff. Because of the size of the stage and the speed of Meta Knight you can actually run away and camp the whole time if you rely on such strategies.

This stage is a no-go against some characters like Snake and Olimar, they can just limit your options even more and punish your Tornado and approaches like no tomorrow.

Pro's:

• Large boundaries
• Good chances to gimp people
• You can be really gay with tornado and tilts because of the ceiling on the first floor
• You can attack through the ceiling and hit opponents on the seccond floor
• You can run away and stall way to good

Con's:

• Some opponents will limit your approaches and **** you
• You will have promblems killing some characters

____________________________________________________​

Ok let's move on to the next stage(s).

 

[PowaStar]

I've always been curious about how Metaknight does on Frigate Orpheon against some characters I mostly use this stage against tether recovery characters because the right side of the stage can screw them over also it seems that I can kill alot more earlier from the sides.

@Tero.
Wonderful summary of the pros and cons on those stages thats going to really help me even more now.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Are people too stupid to understand how good MK is on Brinstar and Distant Planet? Cause so far, I'm the only one who mentioned those stages.
I have video's I'm working on to show you what I mean when I say MK is great on Distant Planet and Brinstar.

 

[DMG]

MK is good on Brinstar and Distant planet, yes. A lot of places do not allow Distant Planet though, and Brinstar isn't exactly a strong CP that comes to mind for MK players. It's good, but it's no Delfino/Rainbow Cruise/LM.

 

[OverLade]

Are people too stupid to understand how good MK is on Brinstar and Distant Planet? Cause so far, I'm the only one who mentioned those stages.
I have video's I'm working on to show you what I mean when I say MK is great on Distant Planet and Brinstar.

Like DMG said Distant planet is usually banned.

Brinstar doesn't work in MKs favor as much as some other stages. The low ceiling works against you, and the platforms give other characters angles to attack from they normally won't be able to use.

Characters you could normally just chase down and **** you can't do that to. Simplicity actually works in MKs favor concerning stage hazards......

 

[CaliburChamp]

Like DMG said Distant planet is usually banned.

Brinstar doesn't work in MKs favor as much as some other stages. The low ceiling works against you, and the platforms give other characters angles to attack from they normally won't be able to use.

Characters you could normally just chase down and **** you can't do that to. Simplicity actually works in MKs favor concerning stage hazards......

Brinstar's platforms are set up good good shuttle loops and ending your tornado on the platform which will prevent MK from falling helplessly for a long time. Also the lava can help you land a low % shuttle loop KO since you won't have to worry about falling to your death at certain times. MK can easily break apart the stage with tornado, and can attack from under the stage with Up-air combos.

Pretty much the same thing for Distant Planet, except that MK gains a projectile from the stage, and the left side of the stage on the slope makes it easy to land shuttle loops.

 

[OverLade]

Brinstar's platforms are set up good good shuttle loops and ending your tornado on the platform which will prevent MK from falling helplessly for a long time. Also the lava can help you land a low % shuttle loop KO since you won't have to worry about falling to your death at certain times. MK can easily break apart the stage with tornado, and can attack from under the stage with Up-air combos.

Pretty much the same thing for Distant Planet, except that MK gains a projectile from the stage, and the left side of the stage on the slope makes it easy to land shuttle loops.

And? MK gains far more of an edge than that from Frigate/Delphino/Cruise/Weegees. The small stage is also horribly turned against you since MK is a light character. Most characters will just be harder to approach because of the uneven nature of the ground.

IMO even Halberd is better than Brinstar....

 

[Fear The Force]

And? MK gains far more of an edge than that from Frigate/Delphino/Cruise/Weegees. The small stage is also horribly turned against you since MK is a light character. Most characters will just be harder to approach because of the uneven nature of the ground.

IMO even Halberd is better than Brinstar....

I disagree with this statement Redhalberd, but I agree with CaliburChamp. I just recently 3 stocked a very good D3 main with my metaknight on distant planet.

Free projectiles are great, as well as being able to attack your opponent from under the platform. It's easy to spam fairs, f-tilts, down tilts, and shuttle loops without fear of killing yourself, but putting lots of fear into your opponent. It is also easy to gimp KO your opponents with dair, off of the slope where the water runs, or into the mouth of the monster, so it can eat your opponent.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I disagree with this statement Redhalberd, but I agree with CaliburChamp. I just recently 3 stocked a very good D3 main with my metaknight on distant planet.

Free projectiles are great, as well as being able to attack your opponent from under the platform. It's easy to spam fairs, f-tilts, down tilts, and shuttle loops without fear of killing yourself, but putting lots of fear into your opponent. It is also easy to gimp KO your opponents with dair, off of the slope where the water runs, or into the mouth of the monster, so it can eat your opponent.

Yeah, if you look at my combo video I show some of the cheap stuff MK can pull off on Distant Planet. And honestly Red Halberd, Brinstar is better than Halberd. The way the platform's are positioned on brinstar make it better, and so does the acid so you can SL off stage at your opponent and still make it back alive after getting hit by the acid. It's not that hard to manuever around a small stage like Brinstar, and you can pull off more up-air to tornado KO's. It depends on the match as well, like if its vs Snake I would never choose Halberd or Brinstar against Snake, I'd choose rainbow cruise or delfino instead.

 

[OverLade]

I disagree with this statement Redhalberd, but I agree with CaliburChamp. I just recently 3 stocked a very good D3 main with my metaknight on distant planet.

Free projectiles are great, as well as being able to attack your opponent from under the platform. It's easy to spam fairs, f-tilts, down tilts, and shuttle loops without fear of killing yourself, but putting lots of fear into your opponent. It is also easy to gimp KO your opponents with dair, off of the slope where the water runs, or into the mouth of the monster, so it can eat your opponent.

Distant planet is banned ALMOST everywhere, so telling people it's a good stage doesn't really help anyone.

And the bolded things can be done on almost any stage. Simplicity works in MK's favor. Things like water that "work in MKs favor" can also be exploited by other characters as well....

Yeah, if you look at my combo video I show some of the cheap stuff MK can pull off on Distant Planet. And honestly Red Halberd, Brinstar is better than Halberd. The way the platform's are positioned on brinstar make it better, and so does the acid so you can SL off stage at your opponent and still make it back alive after getting hit by the acid. It's not that hard to manuever around a small stage like Brinstar, and you can pull off more up-air to tornado KO's. It depends on the match as well, like if its vs Snake I would never choose Halberd or Brinstar against Snake, I'd choose rainbow cruise or delfino instead.

W/e floats your boat.

But still, Rainbow cruise and Delphino, stages you listed yourself are still always better than brinstar or distant planet....

 

[Fear The Force]

@ Redhalberd

The keyword is being ALMOST. I was simply stating that it's a great cp for metaknight, if it is allowed. In regards to your post to CaliburChamp, it obviously seemed that you were comparing it to other counterpicks, and I would like to say that it IS an effective counterpick for metaknight.

That's all.

@ CaliburChamp

I'm going to watch your combo vid.

 

[OverLade]

@ Redhalberd

The keyword is being ALMOST. I was simply stating that it's a great cp for metaknight, if it is allowed. In regards to your post to CaliburChamp, it obviously seemed that you were comparing it to other counterpicks, and I would like to say that it IS an effective counterpick for metaknight.

That's all.

@ CaliburChamp

I'm going to watch your combo vid.

Ugh k w/e.

Maybe we should some stages people will generally be using. >_>

 

[CaliburChamp]

Ugh k w/e.

Maybe we should some stages people will generally be using. >_>

I know FL tournament hosts doesn't allow Distant Planet except for Will, but I know it's not banned everywhere. It's actually in the Counter/Ban section of the Official Stage Legality thread.

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you entirely.

 

[nevershootme]

I know FL tournament hosts doesn't allow Distant Planet except for Will, but I know it's not banned everywhere. It's actually in the Counter/Ban section of the Official Stage Legality thread.

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you entirely.

will did not ever allow distant planet on his tournament at all

 

[CaliburChamp]

will did not ever allow distant planet on his tournament at all

Yeah, your right. -_-

 

[OverLade]

Yeah, your right. -_-

wow........

I'd rather not think how many braincells I just lost.

 

[nevershootme]

wow........

I'd rather not think how many braincells I just lost.

for what reason being you lost some braincells, i've lost some watching eye burning videos and suffering 2 second seizures playing on brinstar!

 

[Crizthakidd]

where should i take a zerio suit sammus.

not just any... like the best one in the nation lolol he knows how to play every stage.

most liekey im thinking frigate. tips?

 

[Kamikaze*]

Can we discuss norfair?

I really need to learn this gay azz stage.