Metaknight iz zo brokn!!!!!!!!!!!!

[viparagon]

Mario's, Luigi's and DK's backthrow can all kill people. Also, why it's pit's fsmash so good, allegedly?

I explain so on page 1&2
who's is better?

 

[Judge Judy]

My canidates for the top 10 side B moves in no specific order: DDD, Mario, Olimar, Marth, Lucario, Zamus (maybe; great reach and acts pretty much like a Zair, but it's a little laggy), TL, G&W (maybe; it's has the potential to be a very good move but it's not too hard to avoid and unreliable), Lucas (maybe; good spacing move and great for recovery but otherwise it's nothing too special), Ganondorf (maybe; it's got some nice tech chases but it's also very is to block and intercept), Zelda (maybe; very good projectile that has a nice explosive hitbox, but other than that it's kind of crappy since it puts Zelda into helpless in the air and is farily easy to avoid), DK (maybe; nice for setups but godawful slow), Bowser (maybe; just because Bowsercide is just so epic).

 

[viparagon]

My canidates for the top 10 side B moves in no specific order: DDD, Mario, Olimar, Marth, Lucario, Zamus (maybe; great reach and acts pretty much like a Zair, but it's a little laggy), TL, G&W (maybe; it's has the potential to be a very good move but it's not too hard to avoid and unreliable), Lucas (maybe; good spacing move and great for recovery but otherwise it's nothing too special), Ganondorf (maybe; it's got some nice tech chases but it's also very is to block and intercept), Zelda (maybe; very good projectile that has a nice explosive hitbox, but other than that it's kind of crappy since it puts Zelda into helpless in the air and is farily easy to avoid), DK (maybe; nice for setups but godawful slow), Bowser (maybe; just because Bowsercide is just so epic).

Thanks for the update! completely forgot about lucario and lucas >_>
Zamus's side+b is great and almost unpunsihable if bsticked (I was going to include it on my dead scenario thread)
Oh and you can't block ganon's side b and its an infinite (IIRC)on small platforms, and garentees a dair on many characters! it can be mixed up with wizkick and thunderstorming for success

 

[da K.I.D.]

lucarios side b is not the best...

pit f smash is great because it racks damage its fast, it hits twice and its one of his only kill moves, and it has decent range.

an all around really good move

ZSS's side b is AMAZING

 

[cutter]

@ cutter. and D3s up air is super disjointed with madd range, which is basically the same as priority

Priority is if an attack can clank or not. Aerials do not clank; the aerial that "wins" is the one where the hitbox overlaps the opposing hurtbox first. That's why attacks such as D3's Uair and GW's Bair are crazy good.

 

[Judge Judy]

Oh and you can't block ganon's side b and its an infinite (IIRC)on small platforms, and garentees a dair on many characters! it can be mixed up with wizkick and thunderstorming for success

You can still prevent Ganon from even landing it on you if you have projectiles that stun or a good disjointed hitbox.

 

[viparagon]

Priority is if an attack can clank or not. Aerials do not clank; the aerial that "wins" is the one where the hitbox overlaps the opposing hurtbox first. That's why attacks such as D3's Uair and GW's Bair are crazy good.

Oh plz.
stop being such a prick.
you know what I meant. ur like yuna and spikes...

You can still prevent Ganon from even landing it on you if you have projectiles that stun or a good disjointed hitbox.

yeah, its pretty easy to avoid, just saying you can't actually shield it

 

[Judge Judy]

lucarios side b is not the best...

No, it isn't but it does have good range and can be used to CG many characters.

 

[viparagon]

No, it isn't but it does have good range and can be used to CG many characters.

yeah, its pretty unanimous marth is No. 1.

 

[Judge Judy]

yeah, its pretty unanimous marth is No. 1.

Yah, the only weakness I can think of for it is that since it has transcended priority it can pretty much be stopped by any projectile with stun.

 

[da K.I.D.]

but since its so fast on start up no marth will ever use it outside of its actual range since you can use it directly out of a run.

that move is too good.

 

[Flamingo777]

This Thread is Garbage, or needs to at least be updated

I decided this thread was garbage when:

1: I saw that Sheik's jab was not #1.
2. When I saw that Sheik's Dsmash was not top5.
3. When I saw that Yoshi's Usmash was in the top10 but not Sheik's DACUS (Dash Attack Cancel to Up Smash)

 

[cutter]

- Does Sheik's jab hit on frame 1? (ZSS)
- Can it do a massive 16%? (Ike)
- Does it kill? (Snake)

 

[TEECO]

dk for B throw.

 

[Crystanium]

D3 uair for #3?!?!?

If you think King Dedede's u-air is better, prove it. Zelda's u-air should be first in regard to KO potential.

dair:

peach needs to go down, ganon needs to go way up (have you seen thunderstomping? ridiculous), tlink needs to dissapear, jiggs needs to dissapear, G&w needs to go up, D3 needs to go down.

otherwise looks pretty reasonable

Let's just cut to the chase. A Ranking of Spikes in Brawl (Update: Ground Spikes). (I seriously don't know why this hasn't been added to the most important thread I'll ever read.)

 

[Afropony]

Why is Metaknight's glide attack better then Pit's?

 

[Flamingo777]

Why is Metaknight's glide attack better then Pit's?

Cause it is like lagless, goes straight into a Dsmash, and has killing potential.

 

[Tristan_win]

You underrate sheik side B.

It should be at least above Ganon

After seeing someone try to argue for higher sheik placement I realize I might need some proof

chain jacket: Sheik chain can have it's hitboxes, damage, and knockback replace with any of her moves including smash attacks so it can kill.

Reverse Chain lock: If used correctly can lock a opponent in a rapid series of hits that and can deal up to 100 damage in a second...no jokes.

Chain keep away: Characters such as Wario, Captain Falcon, Ganon and so on who doesn't have a projectile that can stun cannot knock out a perfect sheik chain camp. With the jump into chain increasing it's knock back and hit stun it is able to stop all approaches on a decent selection of the cast.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Why is Metaknight's glide attack better then Pit's?

cus MKs glide is better than pit, and because his options in and out of it are better than pits

p.s. im getting tired of everyone here pole jocking their mains...
edit for trsitan
thank you for trying to prove your point, but i have to ask, are all of those amazing things you said, are they reliably applicable in real high level play?

(vids would help)

 

[Tristan_win]

cus MKs glide is better than pit, and because his options in and out of it are better than pits

p.s. im getting tired of everyone here pole jocking their mains...
edit for trsitan
thank you for trying to prove your point, but i have to ask, are all of those amazing things you said, are they reliably applicable in real high level play?

(vids would help)

Currently? No there are no real videos of sheiks fighting on a high level using the chain.. at least with all the ways I listed above (especially the chain jack) but those are things the chain can do.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ok, well in responce to that i say that i personally picked up ganon for like the third time and went to delphino and personally took a guy from 20-100% on a platform using only side b

thats the kind of thing that defines the best move in whatever category

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Bthrows that kill below 200%, from Saxon's thread:

B. KO Power
Mario: ~160%
Luigi: ~139%
Donkey Kong: ~161%
Zelda: ~164%
Ganondorf: ~188%
R.O.B.: ~199%
Olimar (blue): ~131%
Olimar (purple): ~163%
Ivysaur: 168%
Ness: ~112% *Strongest throw in the game (with no DI)*
Lucas: ~155%
Snake: ~195%

lol @ Sheik's Side-b being top 10, let alone top 5.

 

[Gindler]

I think you had ROBs Fair and Bair mixed up. His Fair is ridiculously good and his Bair is awfully slow (no idea why it's in the top 10 but the Fair isn't even close)

I also think Kirby has the best Fsmash, insane range, hard to punish, massive KO power if "sweetspotted", oh and it's pretty fast to boot

 

[DanGR]

top ten dsmashes
10.bowser

dash attack
7.zelda
10.shiek

ftilt
10.ike

fair
7.olimar

dair
8.tlink
10.jiggly

Sideb
5.bowser
10.zelda

what should I change?

those

10lols

 

[da K.I.D.]

bowsers side b is amazing
tinks and jigglys down air are very good

i agree with everything else dan mentioned

 

[viparagon]

I think you had ROBs Fair and Bair mixed up. His Fair is ridiculously good and his Bair is awfully slow (no idea why it's in the top 10 but the Fair isn't even close)

I also think Kirby has the best Fsmash, insane range, hard to punish, massive KO power if "sweetspotted", oh and it's pretty fast to boot

its good, but actually is very easy to punish on shieild, unlike pits.

whats wrong with zelda and shiek dash atack? zeldas is very quick and a kill move, while shieks is the fasstest in the game

 

[da K.I.D.]

zeldas seems to be very shield grabbable, but im not very knowledgable on either, so i wont talk much on that

 

[Judge Judy]

Bthrows that kill below 200%, from Saxon's thread:



lol @ Sheik's Side-b being top 10, let alone top 5.

Sheik's chain jacket is decent, it's got good reach, and it's a decent tether.

 

[brinboy789]

bowsers side b is amazing
tinks and jigglys down air are very good

bowsers side b is good
jiggs only use for dair is drillrest
PLEASE take tlink dair off. it sucks. BADLY. it only spikes on the first portion of the attack, if you miss your screwed, and its preeety easy to miss. the only really guaranteed way to hit it is with footstoll, and you can do with with every spike. take it off.PLEASE.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Top 10 Down+B I would think would be... (in no particular order
1. Pikachu
2. Zero Suit Samus
3. Marth
4. Wario
5. Falco
6. Fox
7. Wolf
8. Pit
9. Luigi
10. Jigglypuff

As for the upsmash. I'd take out Link's up-smash and put Ivysaur in his place. Ivysaur up-smash is the strongest knockback move in the game, and I'm surprised Lucas' up smash isnt on that list.

 

[ShadowLink84]

The actually ability to use the Usmash is more imporant.
Link's Usmash has greater versatility than ivysaur and Lucas' Usmash.


I am surprised Sonic's uair isn't up there. I find it to be better than DDD's since it has greater length and isn't DI'ed out of as easily

Links down B is awesome.


Zamus has a good jab too.

 

[da K.I.D.]

bowsers side b is good
jiggs only use for dair is drillrest
PLEASE take tlink dair off. it sucks. BADLY. it only spikes on the first portion of the attack, if you miss your screwed, and its preeety easy to miss. the only really guaranteed way to hit it is with footstoll, and you can do with with every spike. take it off.PLEASE.

dude what are you smoking?

if you hit it on the part that doesnt spike, it pops them up right INTO THE SWORDPLANT AGAIN. and than after the second swordplant hits, YOU CAN HIT THEM WITH ANOTHER SWORDPLANT, and thats the one that spikes. and yes its easy to miss, but its hard to punish, because the wind effect on landing blows the opponent too far away to hit you back.
not to mention that you can combo into it out of a bomb
its good, just because you dont like the move, doesnt mean its not good. get over yourself

p.s. jigglus use down air for a combo starter just as much as fox does, so if you say jiggs down air is bad than you are saying fox's is too.

 

[~AceR~]

I always have to laugh at people who use TLink's Dair to spike and miss. XD

 

[Megavitamins]

throw to fsmash with marth is ****, and its great for edgegaurding,plus pivots and foxtrotting is really effective with it. pikas dsmash still has insane range, very quick start up, eats up shields, and is hard to punish, even though its easy to get out of.

Noo... It only works at a specific percent for all characters, and its only like 21 damager uncharged tipper. Snakes ftilt can do that. Unless it tippers it sucks, and good players wont be tippered. It comes out on like frame 14 I think? (just guessing, i dont remember) and has terrrible after lag. IF it doesnt tipper the knockback is awful. MArths f-smash sucks nuts. PIkas d-smash has good range? no? So what if it eats shields? The second its over and its shieled pika gets punished.

 

[brinboy789]

dude what are you smoking?

if you hit it on the part that doesnt spike, it pops them up right INTO THE SWORDPLANT AGAIN. and than after the second swordplant hits, YOU CAN HIT THEM WITH ANOTHER SWORDPLANT, and thats the one that spikes. and yes its easy to miss, but its hard to punish, because the wind effect on landing blows the opponent too far away to hit you back.
not to mention that you can combo into it out of a bomb
its good, just because you dont like the move, doesnt mean its not good. get over yourself

p.s. jigglus use down air for a combo starter just as much as fox does, so if you say jiggs down air is bad than you are saying fox's is too.

im smoking weed. want some?

it goes into the swordplant...if your opponent doesnt know what TDI and SDI mean. seriously, DI is a huge factor in brawl now >_>. all you have to do is DI out of the swordplants way. to avoid the wind effect...jump (not sure about this one), or use projectile. has very noticeable landing lag. if you miss with the bomb, then your screwed. it that hard to dodge a bomb, especially since airdodge is jacked up in brawl. and its not i dont ilke the move. its actually the move i spam when im TL because its a fun move , i just dont think its really all that great.

and doesnt jiggs have mroe of a horizontal knockback in brawl?

 

[DanGR]

if you hit it on the part that doesnt spike, it pops them up right INTO THE SWORDPLANT AGAIN. and than after the second swordplant hits, YOU CAN HIT THEM WITH ANOTHER SWORDPLANT, and thats the one that spikes. and yes its easy to miss, but its hard to punish, because the wind effect on landing blows the opponent too far away to hit you back.

Try airdodging.

p.s. jigglus use down air for a combo starter just as much as fox does, so if you say jiggs down air is bad than you are saying fox's is too.

lol, not really.

 

[Gindler]

Why is Metaknight's glide attack better then Pit's?

It isn't...

and why's kirby's jab so high? it's not even a good get off me move, it just knocks me back into smash range...

 

[viparagon]

Noo... It only works at a specific percent for all characters, and its only like 21 damager uncharged tipper. Snakes ftilt can do that. Unless it tippers it sucks, and good players wont be tippered. It comes out on like frame 14 I think? (just guessing, i dont remember) and has terrrible after lag. IF it doesnt tipper the knockback is awful. MArths f-smash sucks nuts. PIkas d-smash has good range? no? So what if it eats shields? The second its over and its shieled pika gets punished.

Look at the chart! I already changed it thanks to your input. I was just explaining why I put it there in the first place. And pika's dsmash does have good range, but your right, i'll move wolf's on top of it

im smoking weed. want some?

it goes into the swordplant...if your opponent doesnt know what TDI and SDI mean. seriously, DI is a huge factor in brawl now >_>. all you have to do is DI out of the swordplants way. to avoid the wind effect...jump (not sure about this one), or use projectile. has very noticeable landing lag. if you miss with the bomb, then your screwed. it that hard to dodge a bomb, especially since airdodge is jacked up in brawl. and its not i dont ilke the move. its actually the move i spam when im TL because its a fun move , i just dont think its really all that great.

and doesnt jiggs have mroe of a horizontal knockback in brawl?

Tlink can FOLLW UP with the second hit, depending on where you di if you miss with the bomb if they air dodge, they eat sword plant!. And no, fs combo is hard to pulloff with marth, and NO OTHER CHARACTERS CAN DO IT b/c they are either too slow, too short, or not a stall then fall

 

[TP]

To whoever said Ganon's Side B could be stopped with disjointed hits or projectiles: It is a PUNISHING move. It is never used as an approach.

Ganon's Dair should be on the list, according to the thread that ranks Dairs.

Also, Ganon's Uair needs to be on the list for many reasons:
1) It is our primary spiking move. (Yes it is, don't say Dair)
2) It is our fastest move (not including the Murder Quake, which has 52 frames of end lag), making it more important to Ganon's game than some of those Uairs are to their characters.
3) It kills.
4) Huge hitbox that stays out for awhile.
I know it isn't perfect (**** swords) but it does deserve to be somewhere on the list.

 

[viparagon]

thanks for teh shiz, it was helpful and u know what your talking about