Metaknight iz zo brokn!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eman]

hmm interesting. I personally thought marios fs would be in top 10....

 

[viparagon]

It does not go beyond his jab range dude.
Unimportant. you mean it multihits.

Dude you're not kidding anyone.
Sonic has an Fsmash that has more range than Pit does without being stutterstepped.
Go check yourself.
Oh and Sonic's Fsmash is disjointed to an extent.


What percentage does it kill fromt he middle of FD with proper DI?

Faster yes.
Don't know what you mean by everysense.

Everyone's Fsmash pushes the opponent back and the shieldstun is not that great.
it has low cooldown time but so does Lucario's and Lucario's has much more range.



Wario's is 1 frame slower than Pit's. Has as good range AND super armor.
and it can't be DI'ed out of.
The versatility of the move must be taken into account.
Simply going on the Fsmash alone is meaningless. If we are going by whats best then Pit's simply isn't the best. It lacks the range many other Fsmashes. All it has is speed and is just 1 frame slower and the first hit doesn't do as much damage as the second and it can be DI'ed from.

If pit is top ten, he should be lower.
its not a bad Fsmash, but its not as good as you make it seem.

Yeah its a punch. That is disjointed around the fist.

Sort of like Sonic's Utilt which is also disjointed.


I don't understand you. You're saying he has two swords so I innterpreted it as meaning he has two hits to the attack.
I know its disjointed.
But it lacks range and is weaker in comparison to other Fsmashes.

Cause its just as fast and has super armor and can be led into more easily.

Anyone else in the top 3.
Pit's is fast but lacks the range and versatility that those do.

The first hit of the Fsmash pops the enemy slightly away and up.
Again those other Fsmashes have more attributes that are better than pit's.
All Pit has on Marth's is speed.
All Pit has on DK is speed.


Again shield stun isn't much.
as for startup and cooldown thats what I mean.
Pit only has speed on those that I mentioned.

You must be joking.
Seriously go test it. I am probably off by a few percents but it does rival pit's in terms of power.

sorry, argument on dk is void thanks b/c without speed included, D3 has the best fsmash.
is that true
oh, and you know it does 19 damage, right?
the other top 4 are wario, kirby lucario

Pros +cons (in comparason to pit)

wario
pros: super armor on start up, slighlty more powerful

cons: very slighlty slower, it has a zillion frames of end lag that can easily be puished.

kirby
pros: longer range

cons: slighlty slower, Very punishable on shield

lucario
pros: huge range, extremely hard to punish after execution

cons: huge startup, can easily be rolled around


marth
pros: tippers have power, range


cons: slower, punishable on shield, very little power when not a tipper.

pits cant really even be perfect sheilded, since the second hit pushes them back!
and don't pull out the dI bull****. its like saying your going to di out of warios dair or olimars nair. DI isn't some magical acronym you can pull out of your *** to counter any multi hit attack. Atmittedly, sometimes it doesn't hit twice, but its still enough to stop almost any approach and still place pit in a good position while racking up damage.

hmm interesting. I personally thought marios fs would be in top 10....

Nah, lucas's is better

 

[Judge Judy]

hmm interesting. I personally thought marios fs would be in top 10....

It easily could be since it has crazy range and kills early if you sweetspot it. The only problems with Mario's Fsmash is it isn't all that fast and Mario's palm is not disjointed.

 

[viparagon]

It easily could be since it has crazy range and kills early if you sweetspot it. The only problems with Mario's Fsmash is it isn't all that fast and Mario's palm is not disjointed.

And its not as good as lucas's, who is tenth.

i'd put it next on the list, but it only goes to ten! srry!

 

[Judge Judy]

And its not as good as lucas's, who is tenth.

i'd put it next on the list, but it only goes to ten! srry!

Yah, that's pretty much the reason it's not on the list, too many good Fsmashes.

 

[brinboy789]

And its not as good as lucas's, who is tenth.

i'd put it next on the list, but it only goes to ten! srry!

lucases fsmash can be godly sometimes...and do literally NOTHING other times >_>. IMO zelda has best FS. OHKO (from anywhere thats not 0%), no risk in doing it, so ya.

 

[viparagon]

lucases fsmash can be godly sometimes...and do literally NOTHING other times >_>. IMO zelda has best FS. OHKO (from anywhere thats not 0%), no risk in doing it, so ya.

its good, but does have 15 frames of start up...
you know what?

ill move it up a few notches

but could we have more other movew (like nair and nuetral b) discussed? i'm sick of fsmash

 

[Skink]

On the subject of DIing out of TL's down a, keep in mind TL can DI while using it to keep up with you. Also, I'd like to nominate dk's fsmash on the grounds of range, speed, and power.

 

[viparagon]

On the subject of DIing out of TL's down a, keep in mind TL can DI while using it to keep up with you. Also, I'd like to nominate dk's fsmash on the grounds of range, speed, and power.

LOL at speed, though, power, range and danger level are all top notch ^_^

not sure if it should go above lucas though...

 

[Judge Judy]

As far as standard B moves, Mario's fireballs are very good and are at least as good as TL's arrows.

 

[viparagon]

As far as standard B moves, Mario's fireballs are very good and are at least as good as TL's arrows.

really?

i love me some fiya, but SHDL is very effective and charged arrows can be used to edgegaurd. it helps a tlink main approach as much as fireballz help us! again, one that was barely excluded from the list.

 

[Judge Judy]

really?

i love me some fiya, but SHDL is very effective and charged arrows can be used to edgegaurd. it helps a tlink main approach as much as fireballz help us! again, one that was barely excluded from the list.

Fireballs can be directly followed up with and you can have 2 out at once.

 

[viparagon]

Fireballs can be directly followed up with and you can have 2 out at once.

same with tlink

im a mario main, I already know al this stuff ^_^
don't want to be biased like some of the other people here! toonlinks can two with a quick draw

 

[Crystanium]

Cause it is like lagless, goes straight into a Dsmash, and has killing potential.

Pit can do the same. What's your point?

 

[Judge Judy]

same with tlink

im a mario main, I already know al this stuff ^_^
don't want to be biased like some of the other people here! toonlinks can two with a quick draw

I know what you mean but TL can't follow up with his projectile like Mario can.

 

[viparagon]

I know what you mean but TL can't follow up with his projectile like Mario can.

sorry, i still don't think I should switch it

ready fo r down+b?

 

[Judge Judy]

ready fo r down+b?

First of all, are you counting transformations and the infinite dimension cape?

 

[M15t3R E]

I can't believe how fast this thread has accumulated posts.
And you still haven't changed any of your original lists after all this feedback.

 

[viparagon]

I can't believe how fast this thread has accumulated posts.
And you still haven't changed any of your original lists after all this feedback.

OH wow, you haven't been looking very closely, b/c I've change every single category multiply times. look before u post plz.

And bring something to the discussion next time? i know your smart!

First of all, are you counting transformations and the infinite dimension cape?

No, that gets too complicated, just Like i didn't add olimars pikmin grab.

 

[Skink]

Aw, come on. Dk's fsmash is not slow enough to be laughed at. It's really pretty fast when you consider its power and range. That thing will kill at <100 regularly, and if spaced properly, one screw up and you're dead. It's a great move. You should look into it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

im sorry dude, but have you seen the 15-20 different threads based solely on how to avoid, beat or otherwise counteract tornado?
tornado is the best b move BY FAR. just because it loses to grenades doesnt mean that the grenades are actually better. it single handedly wins matchups against certain characters.

switch those two pls...

also, i think you should switch falcos and luc's. falcos unbelievable spammability beats out lucarios ability to kill with his projectile. the same goes for the 2 between them. falcos laser is way too good.

you should also switch sheik and warios b. sheiks would be really good if it wasnt for the immense charge up time on it. and i you have to realise command throws in this game are straight up redic. wario actually gets grab super armor on his bite. its better than you give it credit for

 

[viparagon]

Aw, come on. Dk's fsmash is not slow enough to be laughed at. It's really pretty fast when you consider its power and range. That thing will kill at <100 regularly, and if spaced properly, one screw up and you're dead. It's a great move. You should look into it.

hmmm... I'm seriously considering it.

do you seriously think its better than lucas's though?

thanks for the input, dakid.

about the nado, most of those polls are made by n00bs who don't know how to angle there sheild up. the mk is forced to retreat of get dash attacked/grabbed.Don't get me wrong, nado is an excellent move, its second because i just don't find it to be nearly as versatile as snake's nades. he can cook, glide toss, use them to set up positions and traps, and Anti jugglying move, and a decent approach with run>shield>(explosion)
ill move wario and falco up, but aurpshere is still beast. it works great spammed, is incredibly annoying with rolls, and is a great egdegaurding and antiedgegaurding move. ill switch wario too
nades are just too good

 

[Gindler]

Dtilt trip to Fsmash is greatness for DK.


Oh and where is ROBs Uair? it's got insane priority and range.

 

[XxBlackxX]

tornado>grenades
falco's lasers >lucario's thing (forgot what it was called lol)

EDIT: beaten by dakid. heh.

 

[viparagon]

Dtilt trip to Fsmash is greatness for DK.


Oh and where is ROBs Uair? it's got insane priority and range.

ok fine! dk bumps lucas!
and I totally forgot about robs uair!
this is what happens when we talk fsmash all day!

 

[viparagon]

Down+b added!
there will be blood on this one...

 

[da K.I.D.]

ROBs up air is way too easy to DI out of dispite the fact that it cna do like 27%

dude, anther is one of the most "just angle your shield and punish nado" supporters out there,and even if you watch his videos, he still gets hit by about 2 times as many nados as the ones he shields and punishes.

and snakes nades hurt him, and its very easy to make the nade hurt snake, just do a throw while near a nade and if you are in conroller port 4, snake gets an extra 15 damage. trust me, tornado is better

 

[XienZo]

Ike? His counter frames activate like 5 times later than Marths...

 

[Skink]

DK has a great down B. It has just about the most range of any non missile attack. And it hits on both sides of him, does good damage, punishes rolls hard, and pokes shields. Marth's down B is just plain crazy though, sometimes. And don't underestimate ZSS's, either.

If this was melee, I'd say zelda's is the best, though.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i have some qualms with this one.
wario cant be number 2 just because he cant use it and have it be effective any more than 1 time per minute
i dont think counters are good enough to be up here, but i cant really think of anything to replace them so w/e
but pikas thunder is seriously top 5, and kirbys rock makes him invulneable and hits... well, like a rock.

i agree with skink. ESPECIALLY ABOUT ZELDA
DKs is really good and really strong.
Zss's down b should include her attack afterwards and that makes it really good because it has invincibilty as well

 

[viparagon]

ROBs up air is way too easy to DI out of dispite the fact that it cna do like 27%

dude, anther is one of the most "just angle your shield and punish nado" supporters out there,and even if you watch his videos, he still gets hit by about 2 times as many nados as the ones he shields and punishes.

and snakes nades hurt him, and its very easy to make the nade hurt snake, just do a throw while near a nade and if you are in conroller port 4, snake gets an extra 15 damage. trust me, tornado is better

nade stripping says high.
anther is very aggressive, and tornado ***** shorthops and fullhop neutral bs, which anther likes to do alot. But yeah, its very close. I'll change ROB's uair, I didn't know you could escape it so easily...

Ike? His counter frames activate like 5 times later than Marths...

thats why he's five places down.




edit:
sorry everyone yeah, i'll definietely fix all that. I forgot about so many attacks >.<

 

[da K.I.D.]

ikes counter should be as strong as roys was...

about rob.
yea, most multihit attack have their knockback set up to push you into the other hits. but none of robs move has like, any knockback for the rest of the move

 

[viparagon]

ikes counter should be as strong as roys was...

about rob.
yea, most multihit attack have their knockback set up to push you into the other hits. but none of robs move has like, any knockback for the rest of the move

I fix'd up down+b

I'm actually liking how it looks

 

[XienZo]

thats why he's five places down.

Yeah, but for it to work, the opponent basically has to wait half a second after you input it as the counter frames take WAY too long to be used on any usual attack.

 

[viparagon]

Yeah, but for it to work, the opponent basically has to wait half a second after you input it as the counter frames take WAY too long to be used on any usual attack.

ur right don't know what I was thinking.
ckeck the chart again!

 

[da K.I.D.]

switch lucas and marth, i really dont think lucas's is anywhere near that good, and while your at it, make kirby number 9

and i think GaW isnt that great just because in a tourney setting, it really doesnt get that much use, when full its ****... but every player in the tourney knows how to avoid filling it

 

[M15t3R E]

OH wow, you haven't been looking very closely, b/c I've change every single category multiply times. look before u post plz.

And bring something to the discussion next time? i know your smart!

Your lists for f-smashes, u-smashes, and d-smashes look the same as its ever been. You sure you revised those?

I was about to bite your head off over the lack of Pikachu in down+b. So glad you fixed that.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I was about to bite your head off over the lack of Pikachu in down+b. So glad you fixed that.

yea....
i made sure that was remedied QUICK

 

[viparagon]

switch lucas and marth, i really dont think lucas's is anywhere near that good, and while your at it, make kirby number 9

and i think GaW isnt that great just because in a tourney setting, it really doesnt get that much use, when full its ****... but every player in the tourney knows how to avoid filling it

Lucas's is amazing. Have u seen wave jump? its HAX. it also useful for magnet slide, can be canceled free of lag, comes out fast, reverses directions, stalls, has a powerful attack that can work against legdeguarders, he's twice the damage thrown at him and comes out lightning fast... I could go on and on.

the implications of the bucket is that it inhibits projectile spamming? falco givin yah problems? bucket two lasers and you wont see another for a lloooonnng time. Kirbys sux.

 

[Oh Snap]

Zelda/Shiek's downB should be #1.