brinboy789
Smash Champion
WHY is MK still in grabs? put DK or IC's, they have amazing grab games. WHY is MK still in grabs???
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Metaknight iz zo brokn!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter viparagon
- Start date
- Status
How the hell is pk thunder overrated. No one gives it props cept ness mainers. It DOESNT MATTER that any attack can cancel out the head, a good or even decent ness player is tryingto hit you with the tail, which has INFINITE priority. Airdodging gets punished too. Normally, a ness wont lead pkt at you with the head, he`ll swipe around the tail while you air dodge then get hit with the head, or get hit with the tail while you try to cancel out the head thats already below you, then get tailwhipped again and again and then popped into the air for more pkt juggling. play a good Ness OFFLINE (PKT sux online) and youll see.
Lucas` is NOT better as an attack. for recovery, no duh.
D
Deleted member
Guest
i give it props skyler =)
That move is gay.
That move is gay.
kuenzel
Smash Ace
ZSS's Forward smash is the worst F-smash. Its lag is rediculous on start and finish, It doesn't even kill good at all. A basic ZSS strategy is to ideally NEVER use it.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Its laser priority not infinite priority -_-;
XxBlackxX
Smash Ace
what...IC's are worst for grabs? is this referring to range or overall?
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
To their range I think.
XxBlackxX
Smash Ace
i admit falco's down b has great uses and is fairly good, but not that good.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
peach's turnips are good... but it's more her ability to glide toss than it is to actually use turnips that makes them good. and falco's definitely shouldn't be on.
but yeah. you're right about dairs:
ICs, Sheik, ZSS... those are all just terrible
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Probably because, in all honesty, it IS overrated. I love the attack, but holy ****, it's basically Ness's only claim to fame. Don't even tell me that his air game is taken more into account than this stupid move.
It does matter that the head can be canceled out. Lots of projectiles ignore the ZOMG INFINITE (laser) priority of the tail and can still clash with the head.
I'm sick of you Ness players telling everyone to play a good Ness. PK Thunder > PK Thunder 2. PK Thunder 2 is basically a powerful smash attack that can be treated as a huge projectile. It's also Ness's main recovery attack, a move that requires reading and prediction to even be used effectively and, after the invincibility wears off, a move that most characters can override with one attack.The actual thunder projectile is way better than the blasting thing.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
okay then time to find my other biggest problems with the list now that that's fixed up:
Fsmash
Pit: still saying he's not as good as some of the others on that list.
Worst: ZSS NOT squirtle. Squirtle's has better power and super armour. ZSS's is just terrible.
Dsmash:
#1 should be ROB,
#2 should be MK
#3 should be Zelda
Toon link's shouldn't even be ON there.
Sheik shouldn't be #1... but, being tied with Zelda and ROB for fastest Dsmash in the game as well as having decent power, decent sheildpush and lingering hitboxes, she DEFINITELY deserves a spot. It's also hard to counter since sheik has no exposed hitboxes during the attack.
Worst should be Ganondorf's not jiggly's, but both are bad.
Dtilt:
Zelda's is generally better than charizard's. Charizard's is great for range and killing power, but zelda's has a lot more setups and more potential to do damage thanks to locks and comboes.
Fair:
Jigglypuff needs to be on that list, and AT LEAST mid way up on it. She can do with it exactly what ROB and squirtle can. IT's beastly. no reason for it not to be on there.
Dair:
Ness's is a bit more threatening than it's being given credit for.
Falco's is a bit less threatening too. it's a good spike to be sure, and is certainly useful and should be on the top 10 list... but it should be lower on the list. honestly it requires a sweetspot and is not one of the strongest spikes... it's comperable to zelda's if anything... and hers is listed as worst.
Sheik, ZSS and ICs have far worse dairs than zelda, whose dair is one of the strongest spikes in the game.
Fsmash
Pit: still saying he's not as good as some of the others on that list.
Worst: ZSS NOT squirtle. Squirtle's has better power and super armour. ZSS's is just terrible.
Dsmash:
#1 should be ROB,
#2 should be MK
#3 should be Zelda
Toon link's shouldn't even be ON there.
Sheik shouldn't be #1... but, being tied with Zelda and ROB for fastest Dsmash in the game as well as having decent power, decent sheildpush and lingering hitboxes, she DEFINITELY deserves a spot. It's also hard to counter since sheik has no exposed hitboxes during the attack.
Worst should be Ganondorf's not jiggly's, but both are bad.
Dtilt:
Zelda's is generally better than charizard's. Charizard's is great for range and killing power, but zelda's has a lot more setups and more potential to do damage thanks to locks and comboes.
Fair:
Jigglypuff needs to be on that list, and AT LEAST mid way up on it. She can do with it exactly what ROB and squirtle can. IT's beastly. no reason for it not to be on there.
Dair:
Ness's is a bit more threatening than it's being given credit for.
Falco's is a bit less threatening too. it's a good spike to be sure, and is certainly useful and should be on the top 10 list... but it should be lower on the list. honestly it requires a sweetspot and is not one of the strongest spikes... it's comperable to zelda's if anything... and hers is listed as worst.
Sheik, ZSS and ICs have far worse dairs than zelda, whose dair is one of the strongest spikes in the game.
powell651234
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2008
- Messages
- 86
First of all: valiant effort.
Obviously this is WAY harder than a tier list and there is going to be a ton of problems... a lot of the choices are awful close, and it's hard to say which move is best because matchup and situation govern all of that.
However, I am stunned that you said Mario has the worst dtilt in the game. His dtilt is a pretty good combo starter.
I mean dont Pikachu and Ike have pretty crappy dtilts. What about CFalcon and Zamus, their dtilts are like Marios.
I mean, especially since Mario is your main...
Obviously this is WAY harder than a tier list and there is going to be a ton of problems... a lot of the choices are awful close, and it's hard to say which move is best because matchup and situation govern all of that.
However, I am stunned that you said Mario has the worst dtilt in the game. His dtilt is a pretty good combo starter.
I mean dont Pikachu and Ike have pretty crappy dtilts. What about CFalcon and Zamus, their dtilts are like Marios.
I mean, especially since Mario is your main...
Gindler
Smash Champion
I don't main ness. I second him
. But yeah if an opponent is high enough and no platforms to get in the way then pkt is undodgeable which is nice. I rarely get teh head cancelled out because most people will try and dodge it all together which is difficult since you can just circle it right as they dodge and they'll still get hit. Tailwhipping can gimp too if you do it right (not hard). Oh and pkt2 is nice as well 
Mario's has sub-par range. Horrible speed, and just isn't too great. Pika's is a nice get off me move even though Dsmash is better in most situations, C.F's and ZSS's have much better range and pop them into combo position even better than mario's...
brinboy789
Smash Champion
have you failed to notice my first post on this page? oh and LOL @ ^^^
edit: first post on LAST page
edit: first post on LAST page
Judge Judy
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1,638
Mario's Dtilt is bad, I can't think of any Dtilt worse than it. Dtilt has little bit of priority and is slightly disjointed but its startup and ending lag make it just awful. Dtilt is at best a medicore juggling tilt at very specific percents. Most Mario mains just pretend Mario's Dtilt doesn't exist.
viparagon
Smash Ace
Its the actual grab, not grab GAME, brinboy...
Ussi
Smash Legend
Well, since you're picking on my two mains I'll have to correct you.
Pikachu's dtilt is amazing as it has the 2nd most horizontal range for any ground attack for Pikachu. Plus it trips which leads to combos.
Ike's dtilt is the 4th strongest overall spike, 2nd strongest grounded spike. Plus it cuts through shields of taller characters.
viparagon
Smash Ace
is that including luigi's down taunt?
Ussi
Smash Legend
Yes it is, Luigi's down taunt is the strongest spike in the game, and the grounded spike that beats Ike's dtilt.is that including luigi's down taunt?
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Its so scary seeing it used. Has anyone ever pulled it off in a tourney and if so, VIDS PLEASE!
brinboy789
Smash Champion
viparogon, WHY is MK STILL in 5th for grabs? put in IC's or DK or something, MK's isnt THAT great!
viparagon
Smash Ace
I answered your question... Look up
Well I nearley never hear anyone say anything good about the attack. Mostly "Lucas` is sooo much better than Ness`" Actually a lot of Ness mainers like his aerials more than pkt, I like pkt more than his aerials more, but w/e....
Keyword here is "projectiles",what kind of projectile is gonna stop the head while its looping around at you, probably stopping you with the tail as well? None...reflectors are the only thing really good against it, and even then a reflector happy player can get pkt2 if he doesnt watch out, because reflecting the tail doesnt stop control of the attack.
Well maybe some should play a good Ness(Im not even talking about myself, geez. And its not cool to stereotype people."you ness players"), I only hear bad stuff about Ness ALL THE TIME except for about fair and bthrow and frankly a lot of it is wrong, such as this case. Im not saying hes great or anything I know hes low tier but he has stregths which is why some people play him. PKT is one of his strengths. i agree with you PKT > PKT2...most matches I never even land a PKT2, but I always land a PKT numerous times. However is very good killing move and your correct that after the invincible part the move can be overriden by a lot of moves (sonic`s dair got me before lol)
are you being serious? If so your wrong.
brinboy789
Smash Champion
ooo oops you didnt quote me so i thought it didnt concern me
then how exactly is MK's grab 5th? his grab range is average, and his grabs are decent, but 5th? im pretty sure snakes grab and DK's grabs do more damage and knockback...
viparagon
Smash Ace
WTF ARE YOU TALING BOUTT?
grabs don't do damage, but I'm very willin g to knock him off...
in case it wasn't clear enough, its grab speed range, lag, etc.
@PKSKYLER
It is actually
check the lists
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
time for a spot dodge list.
1. D3
2. ROB
3. MK
4. Snake
and yoshi should be on the grab list.
maybe even number 1
1. D3
2. ROB
3. MK
4. Snake
and yoshi should be on the grab list.
maybe even number 1
Test it yourself. Ness's Dair is MUCH MUCH weaker than Luigi's Dtaunt.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
its highly damage dependant, but at 0 luigis taunt is the strongest spike in the game
viparagon
Smash Ace
You know what I mean for the list, right? if not, check above you...
this is the spotdodge itself, and MKs is actually relatively bad, and ROBs is also nothing special apparently, but I need hard data for this... Help, anyone?
MK's spotdodge is average. http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5135598&postcount=6
Kirby Redux
Smash Journeyman
I personally don't think Pikachu's b-air is the worst. It racks up good damage even with the ending lag.
Seriously? I was gonna argue Ness` is at 0%, and Ganon`s is at later percents. thats very awesome
PkTrainerCris
Smash Ace
I think there are some missing:
Fsmash: Zelda (last time i checked you couldnt SDI out of it, now im not sure)
Usmash: Charizard... its really good
Dash attack: Ivysaur.. it even kill decently
Utilt: charizards kills very well, and squirtles comboes like crazy
Charizards uair is soooo far from the worst... i would say the worst is... jigglys??
How is zeldas the worst dair???
Fsmash: Zelda (last time i checked you couldnt SDI out of it, now im not sure)
Usmash: Charizard... its really good
Dash attack: Ivysaur.. it even kill decently
Utilt: charizards kills very well, and squirtles comboes like crazy
Charizards uair is soooo far from the worst... i would say the worst is... jigglys??
How is zeldas the worst dair???
Ussi
Smash Legend
Charizard's usmash is indeed better than Dk's and peach's. It can kill and it has a better hitbox
viparagon
Smash Ace
WTH?? its been there since the beginning, but I must have accidentally gotten rid of it...
ungulateman
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2008
- Messages
- 241
Worst Uair is NOT Jiggs. You know "the Wall of Pain"?
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