Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO

[EdreesesPieces]

This matchup is 60-40 in Meta's advantage. You guys are right that her massively outranges her on the ground. and that's a good strategy to go, but the thing is MK doesn't really have the tools to force her to stay on the ground. Also, one thing Peach can do to stay competitive on the ground is to shield and counter with a turnip. Her downsmash also more often than not will shield poke metanight, so whenever I'm near him on the ground a lot of times I downsmash. to get him back in the air and get myself some space.

MK can really mess her up with his up b invincibility frames, it gives her a hard time, that was mentioned before. Basically the more patient player will often win this matchup, MK can't be as super aggressive as usual, and Peach has to camp like crazy to create openings. Peach is lucky that thanks to her UP B its pretty tough for MK to edgeguard her, though if you make crafty use of n-air (one of the best moves against peach IMO) you can sitll do it. She cannot edgeguard metaknight period.

Peach can beat MK but relies on him being a worse player or making mistakes, or not knowing the matchup extremely well. This is actually the matchup I know best in the entire game, I could not main Peach if I didn't know it that well because I'd be taken out so often in the first couple of rounds.

Meta I feel just has answers to most of what Peach can think of, he has the tools, just sometimes he has to be real creative to use those tools.

 

[MrEh]

Bowser can't follow up with a down-b spike after a grab release

Bowser Bomb only works on certain characters, and Meta is not one of them. Besides, it doesn't spike.

Most of the time I'd chaingrab or Klaw Meta anyway. (it's hard enough to land a grab though)

 

[Shadow 111]

this thread is good. i agree with most of your matchups. i like how you actually took the time to list a lot about EVERY character and not just the high tier chars.. also that you gave bowser and DK decent matchups against mk when most ppl underestimate them.
i think lucario is 55/45 though. that's just my opinion... his priority is a big problem... also the fact that if you can't manage to gimp him at an early percent he will give you a hard time as he gets higher in percent. i find it really difficult to get the kill off of very smart lucario players unless i manage to gimp them early on.
nice thread though.

 

[Staco]

i think lucario is 55/45 though. that's just my opinion...

If you get better, lucario will get easier and more easier to you.
He is a hard enemy, if you are not so good, but as a really good player he wont give you too much trouble.

 

[Snowstalker]

You suddenly changed Yoshi to 60:40 for no apparent reason.

Why do I have a sudden urge to print out the OP, and burn the paper?

 

[Affinity]

You suddenly changed Yoshi to 60:40 for no apparent reason.

Why do I have a sudden urge to print out the OP, and burn the paper?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6194888&postcount=343

 

[Sushi-Man]

If you get better, lucario will get easier and more easier to you.
He is a hard enemy, if you are not so good, but as a really good player he wont give you too much trouble.

Shadow is one of the top players in NY. I gotta agree with Shadow about the Lucario match-up. F-smash gets extremely annoying.

 

[Shadow 111]

Shadow is one of the top players in NY. I gotta agree with Shadow about the Lucario match-up. F-smash gets extremely annoying.

wow haha. thanks for backing me up. f smash is a problem but you just gotta learn how to space well against it, make sure you notice the change in it's range as he gets higher in percent.

Staco- i would call myself pretty good and very experienced with the matchup. i have played some amazing lucario players and still find the matchup to be almost even. that's just how i see it though. i do 2-3 stock most average lucario players so i could see how it could be strong mk favor.

 

[Staco]

I dont think that is much in MKs favor.
Maybe 60:40 for MK, but not worse.

 

[Deoxys]

this thread is good. i agree with most of your matchups. i like how you actually took the time to list a lot about EVERY character and not just the high tier chars.. also that you gave bowser and DK decent matchups against mk when most ppl underestimate them.
i think lucario is 55/45 though. that's just my opinion... his priority is a big problem... also the fact that if you can't manage to gimp him at an early percent he will give you a hard time as he gets higher in percent. i find it really difficult to get the kill off of very smart lucario players unless i manage to gimp them early on.
nice thread though.

Shadow is one of the top players in NY. I gotta agree with Shadow about the Lucario match-up. F-smash gets extremely annoying.

REALLY?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwo39ulIYfQ&fmt=18

IDK how MK is supposed to beat Wario, I've found a way around just about anything MK can throw at me. Only advice I can think of is to abuse those Upb invincibility frames the best you can, and try to space well.

How should MK play against Wario? Just walk around and Ftilt until the timer runs down?

 

[Staco]

I think azen could have done better, if he didnt fail the first stock. Maybe just one stock.

 

[Shadow 111]

REALLY?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwo39ulIYfQ&fmt=18

are you being serious and actually basing the entire matchup off of 1 match? or were you just bringing it up as a joke? if so it's funny lol. if not >_<

 

[MrEh]

You suddenly changed Yoshi to 60:40 for no apparent reason.

Why do I have a sudden urge to print out the OP, and burn the paper?

Hahaha, easy there.

Bowser was changed to 60-40 as well, but I'm not making a big deal out of it. Only a 60-40 disadvantage is excellent for Bowser, so I'm not complaining. And neither should you.

 

[fox219]

You can duck under lasers! and ftw

 

[brinboy789]

You can duck under lasers! and ftw

MK cant duck under falco's lasers

 

[ADHD]

MK cant duck under falco's lasers

I'm rewriting my ****ty noob vs diddy description tomorrow okay affinity? I have some good stuff to say.

Trying to gimp diddy can SEVERELY backfire. You can die instantly at any percent as long as you are below the ledge level of a stage.

 

[Staco]

everyone has got a power shield :D
no need for duck

 

[Affinity]

I'm rewriting my ****ty noob vs diddy description tomorrow okay affinity? I have some good stuff to say.

Sounds good

Trying to gimp diddy can SEVERELY backfire. You can die instantly at any percent as long as you are below the ledge level of a stage.

Haha yeah, I've played with Nynja enough to always remember that when playing against a Diddy.

 

[Samuelson]

The lucario part is pretty much right except for a couple of minor things. Fully charged AS will ALWAYS beat nado...not just at higher percents. I always punish MK's that use Dthrow, i DI upwards and Dair them or if i have a FCAS i will DI to the side and shoot AS before they can follow up. Other then that it's pretty good but you might be underestimating Lucario a little bit (like all the other character boards). You should point out that none of MK's A moves beat out AS so Lucario's will be using that a lot. If the MK player doesn't let Lucario space right or spam AS then it is pretty tough for Lucario but i don't think it is as steep as 65:35...i would say it's more like 60:40 but whatever. That's just my impute.

 

[DMG]

How should MK play against Wario? Just walk around and Ftilt until the timer runs down?

Lol, just lol.

It's actually a hard matchup if you get a Wario that knows how to punish well. U can't just use your range and expect to win unfortunately.

 

[Dojo]

DMG pwns me.

 

[Sushi-Man]

Lucario should be changed to 60:40. For Wario, abuse the invincibility frames from up-b to counter his dair and f-smash beats all his other approaches. Its not a easy match but it is in mk's favor.

 

[DMG]

For Wario, abuse the invincibility frames from up-b to counter his dair and f-smash beats all his other approaches. Its not a easy match but it is in mk's favor.

Lol that is too general good sir. What happens when I approach, u think I will dair and I airdodge? You are now about to get clapped.

As for Fsmash you can't just do that over and over, Boost Smash will cover the distance fast. Or Wario can just start walking closer and closer to you until it is dangerous to go for a Fsmash.

Ask Dojo, Wario is serious business. Seriously.

 

[Sushi-Man]

Lol that is too general good sir. What happens when I approach, u think I will dair and I airdodge? You are now about to get clapped.

As for Fsmash you can't just do that over and over, Boost Smash will cover the distance fast. Or Wario can just start walking closer and closer to you until it is dangerous to go for a Fsmash.

Ask Dojo, Wario is serious business. Seriously.

I was being very general. I was in no way insinuating that this was a straight forward match-up. Wario has several tricks to tackle mk but I was just stating some general tips that could help someone.

 

[Shadow 111]

Lol that is too general good sir. What happens when I approach, u think I will dair and I airdodge? You are now about to get clapped.

haha, i found that funny. it's true, it's really risky to up b from the ground or glide over to him because you will probably get CLAPPED lol. i try to avoid using up b from the ground while i'm at killing percent.

lol, you have anoth quote from azen sig, everybody has those now... even my brother =/. i like the star he uses though.. every time i see that blinking star on someone's sig i read it XD.

i definitely need some help on how to fight wario though. DMG you probably wouldn't wanna cuz you main him but could you give any advice on how to approach wario and deal with his offensive game? whenever he is dairing at my shield i never know what to do when it's done. i have hardly any experience fighting him so when i fight a really good one i usually suck at it lol.

 

[DMG]

I was being very general. I was in no way insinuating that this was a straight forward match-up. Wario has several tricks to tackle mk but I was just stating some general tips that could help someone.

No, those tips were fine, I was just surprised someone was more general about a matchup than me lol. I usually don't go in depth about anything unless there is a serious discussion about it.

haha, i found that funny. it's true, it's really risky to up b from the ground or glide over to him because you will probably get CLAPPED lol. i try to avoid using up b from the ground while i'm at killing percent.

lol, you have anoth quote from azen sig, everybody has those now... even my brother =/. i like the star he uses though.. every time i see that blinking star on someone's sig i read it XD.

Clap on MK hurts, nearly 18% and it keeps you in the air where he can usually threaten to clap again. Dair, Clap, and Fsmash make MK curl from all the damage he takes.

I quoted that just to remind myself that I might actually be good with this character and to maybe stick it out with him. Although I picked up a lot of other characters just to be well versed, Azen telling me that I good with him is enough motivation for me to keep using him.

i definitely need some help on how to fight wario though. DMG you probably wouldn't wanna cuz you main him but could you give any advice on how to approach wario and deal with his offensive game? whenever he is dairing at my shield i never know what to do when it's done. i have hardly any experience fighting him so when i fight a really good one i usually suck at it lol.

If he does Dairs, try Nair OOS right after the last Dair hit or when he tries to move away. A lot of Wario's will get hit by Nair if they don't retreat Dairs right or if they are bad at being strict on their fast falling. I also find Dash Grabs somewhat hard to avoid unless I fast fall it good, and it forces me to spotdodge almost instantly (although my definition of Instant is skewed since I know what people will do before hand lol) to avoid the grab. If you can train the Wario to react the same way over time, u can punish it. Actually being able to do that to a good player is harder said than done though obviously.

 

[Shadow 111]

No, those tips were fine, I was just surprised someone was more general about a matchup than me lol. I usually don't go in depth about anything unless there is a serious discussion about it.



Clap on MK hurts, nearly 18% and it keeps you in the air where he can usually threaten to clap again. Dair, Clap, and Fsmash make MK curl from all the damage he takes.

I quoted that just to remind myself that I might actually be good with this character and to maybe stick it out with him. Although I picked up a lot of other characters just to be well versed, Azen telling me that I good with him is enough motivation for me to keep using him.



If he does Dairs, try Nair OOS right after the last Dair hit or when he tries to move away. A lot of Wario's will get hit by Nair if they don't retreat Dairs right or if they are bad at being strict on their fast falling. I also find Dash Grabs somewhat hard to avoid unless I fast fall it good, and it forces me to spotdodge almost instantly (although my definition of Instant is skewed since I know what people will do before hand lol) to avoid the grab. If you can train the Wario to react the same way over time, u can punish it. Actually being able to do that to a good player is harder said than done though obviously.

alright. yea of course it will be hard to do to a really good wario player. thanks for the tips, i'll see how i can do against some wario players in my region now. the thing that was annoying me was in teams... atomsk and inui (2 of njs best) go snake and wario against me and my brother snakeee all the time now.. because they used to always lose to us and they noticed i can't handle the wario pressure. what usually happens is atomsk (wario) will keep me in the air with up airs .. reading my air dodges and punishing with another up air every time.. a couple of up airs later and it's inui's (snake's) time to up tilt away. lmao.
any tips on how to get away from his clap when he keeps me in the air with it? none of my moves will hit through it right? .. none of the moves i can do while he's under me i mean.

 

[Shadow 111]

Affinity- do you have every character matchup on there except for fox? lol
idk if you missed putting fox up there or just aren't done with getting info on him yet.
whether you know about it or not idk .. but you should definitely include the grab release to up smash that fox has on mk... at around 80% that will definitely kill with no DI... so it's something to be realllyyy careful about. also(if you didn't know) you can break out of his grab without using any jump buttons (X or Y) and you will break out right next to fox instead of aerially, which will prevent him from being able to use it.

 

[DMG]

alright. yea of course it will be hard to do to a really good wario player. thanks for the tips, i'll see how i can do against some wario players in my region now. the thing that was annoying me was in teams... atomsk and inui (2 of njs best) go snake and wario against me and my brother snakeee all the time now.. because they used to always lose to us and they noticed i can't handle the wario pressure. what usually happens is atomsk (wario) will keep me in the air with up airs .. reading my air dodges and punishing with another up air every time.. a couple of up airs later and it's inui's (snake's) time to up tilt away. lmao.
any tips on how to get away from his clap when he keeps me in the air with it? none of my moves will hit through it right? .. none of the moves i can do while he's under me i mean.

Dair might beat it, it's a lot easier if you are jumping and doing a Dair. If you are low on Jumps, then try Fast falling your airdodges, those are harder to punish than normal ones since Wario is so floaty. If you REALLY need to avoid Uair, try using Nado and steering it away or into him (obviously this is super dangerous if you are really high up since you will be left vulnerable on the way down). Shuttle Loop can also get you away from Clap, but that's like a severely last resort on some of the bigger stages.

Dair though while you are rising is pretty hard to clap, they gotta read it pretty far in advance (unless you are being super repetitive or readable), jump at the right time/predict the exact time you will Dair, and then clap you at near maximum range distance. If you are talking about doubles specifically, That's pretty hard to do with all of the distractions doubles presents. If he is able to do that though, then you tell Snakeee to just go f*** him up or something if he can lol.

 

[Kamikaze*]

DMG you're scaring me

 

[Shadow 111]

k thanks DMG. we are all at about the same skill in doubles... my brother wouldn't be able to **** him so easily lol. i'll definitely not be a dead weight in the next match we have though.

 

[Staco]

mk vs. falco:

http://nicozon.blog64.fc2.com/?video_id=sm5717533

what the heck!

mk vs. snake:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213673

im sure now, snake has got the advantage Oo

 

[TKD]

what the heck!

mk vs. snake:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213673

im sure now, snake has got the advantage Oo

Some east coast players say it's 60/40 Snake. I like to say it's even because both characters are so awesome.

Snake has grenade slide into shieldgrab, grenade camping and KO power.
Meta has range, a massive dashgrab and a better recovery.

One's lighter but recovers perfectly. The other is heavier but has more trouble recovering. Both have a decent damage output. =)

 

[Staco]

Whats grenade slide? (maybe I know what you mean, but I dont know the name for it xD)

 

[Babar-Thorbald]

Staco, in the mk/falco vid you posted, the mk played poorly... He played falco as if falco was a character without projectiles and chaingrab... How stupid...
The guy playing mk obviously didn't know anything about the matchup...
I use to play a falco which plays at the same level as the one in the vid, but the one who is used to win is me...
The mk was cged in each of his lives==>
No Dair camp, ended by a tornado, which is the best approach to fight falco, and to avoid getting cged.
No tornado against the illusion recovery (which is one (if not the one) of the most annoying moves mk can do...)
It edgeguards greatly falco: He has only two choices: trying to get the edge, but mk can edgehop very easily, so he won't do that often, or volunteerly trying to come back on the stage, knowing perfectly that the tornado will catch him...
Then, falco has two options, one means easy death and the other means free percents, you can be sure that he'll most often choose the free percent stuff, and that he'll be really annoyed...
That's an awesome brickwall.
(but when you play a falco, if japes isn't banned from the tournament, pray for not playing on DF...
the best places I've tried so far are battlefield and smashville, though.

 

[Vorguen]

I've been waiting for a Kirby vs Meta Knight one to come out. Hopefully that one can come out soon too.

 

[Babar-Thorbald]

I'm waiting for it too, because it's not that easy...

 

[TKD]

I can post up a match of me against the best Kirby player in SoCal, if you guys wish. I think it's a pretty even matchup.

The hardest matches for Meta Knight are Snake, G&W, Wario, Kirby and Falco.
Diddy Kong goes to the "maybe" pile.

I think they're all even except maybe Diddy. Meta Knight is at least 60/40 on every other character in the game IMO.

 

[Staco]

mk vs. kirby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MqavPwRTB4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNe7NOnufps

The matchup isnt the worst thing for kirby. An kirby can has some nados. xD

 

[Vorguen]

That's a lol in the face to MK... nadoing him back.