Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Diddy Kong

[Rayquaza07]

diddy vs mk is not at all easy for mk to win diddy has glide toss nanner which can beat nado the fliphop which beats nado has good smashes and good aerials not to mention he is fast and smasll making him that much harder for mk to hit but nannerz kill mk which makes this a pretty neutral mu on most stages

 

[ODST01]

i find this mu to be hard especially dealing with the bananas.

 

[Orion*]

That's a bad idea, lol.

Diddy can easily punish the lag frames. Just hold onto it and wait for anopening or throw it onto a platform,I guess.

dashing away and jc->uthrow is usually what i do. bt you always sandbag so icant tell if itll work in tournament or not XD

 

[Exdeath]

dashing away and jc->uthrow is usually what i do. bt you always sandbag so icant tell if itll work in tournament or not XD

JC>Uthrow away isn't really punishable and it gets the banana away from Diddy (which is particularly good if he has two out), but it's also good to keep the banana and use it as another mix-up tool. One thing that I've been trying out is running toward Diddy with the banana, stopping and dropping the banana, and then picking it back up. From what I've seen so far, Diddy will usually react. If he doesn't react, then a JC/GT to grab will beat that. Make sure that if you're attempting the latter that you still keep an eye on Diddy in case he reads your bait. Also, if Diddy runs away then it's safer to treat it as a neutral situation and act accordingly.

 

[Orion*]

i throw the bananas back at diddy actually, unless its adhd. because he WILL **** you for it. there is a significant different between him and Every other diddy.

even gnes, who i felt was on a ridiculously high level, was just ridiculously smart. he didnt have the same level of banana control

 

[lilseph]

i throw the bananas back at diddy actually, unless its adhd. because he WILL **** you for it. there is a significant different between him and Every other diddy.

even gnes, who i felt was on a ridiculously high level, was just ridiculously smart. he didnt have the same level of banana control

This ^

i was acually confused when ADHD said that throwing the banana back at diddy was a bad idea. Turns out its just a bad idea against ADHD.

 

[Gnes]

:3 Orion

There are ways to use a naner against diddy that doesnt have automatic retailation.

1.Z-dropping>opens up many things u can do.
2. Throwing it while short hopping. Hits diddy's shield at a diagonal so the only way he can I-throw it back is by jumping. hence putting him in the air.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I rarely use bananas offensively. I'll just use glide toss to get away @_@

Z-dropping is only so useful with MK, lol. He's too floaty and you can only get like a Dair out of it.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Throwing them down seems to be better then Z dropping with him. I've never seen benefits from Z dropping.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Unless you're floaty as hell (Peach turnip Zdrop is legit)

 

[-LzR-]

Zdrop is a mixup. With Rob I do combos with it. Zdrop gyro, opponent is now in hitstun. Then I bair, it catches the gyro and hits my opponent and then I can follow with another gyro throw towards him and now he is offstage. It's legit and I have done it many times. It needs some setup thought and it wouldn't work without zdrop. Dunno about MK thought, I think he is better of just holding the nanner. Zdrop, attack to pick it up. This allows you to attack with a nanner in hand and keep the Diddy guessing and with one nanner he isn't a threat.

 

[TreK]

Second, when you get tripped by a banana ALWAYS roll away. "Meh, but P4 if you always roll away you become predictable", that's really not the case, the truth is you're going to get carried to the end of the stage no matter what, so why not get there faster and take less damage? Besides all of that, it makes it harder for Diddy to follow up with either moves or bananas, trust me when I say this.

I read that thread a while ago cus I 2nd MK.
I also just discovered an AT for Diddy, that makes this advice wrong and an awful idea.

I, of course, shared it with the other diddies.

If you roll away all the time when you get tripped, you'll now get infinited.

 

[ぱみゅ]

SUMMARY Contains several quotes from Kaffei, Smash G 0 D, the unable tea table, Player-4, and others:


Learning how to use Bananas is very important in this MU.

If Diddy throws a Banana at your shield and he tries to follow up, you can GSL OoS, but this can be baited & punished.

When edge guarding Diddy you should be above him not linear or below, so you don't get spiked or humped.

When he's charging his Up b off stage, you should dair him. If he's blasting already then nair (invincinair if you can); or grab the ledge, forcing him onto the stage, then punish with a grab or Fsmash/Dsmash.

If you want to steal bananas then you can catch them off of your shield (shield, jump, catch) but most Diddy's will expect that so meh.

Don't fall for stupid stuff like Diddy's Dtilt combos. If he Dtilts you, get away before he Dtilts you again or rolls behind you and does more Dtilts or grab you, lulz.

Tornado can be good, but you have to be careful with it. Like if you have one of his bananas, it might be harder for him to punish nados. And if he doesn't have any bananas, tornado is pretty much unpunishable. Also... spacing nado above his throw range is good. Like you can nado and space it so that the banana that he throws at you goes right under you, but you still hit him.

Diddy is hella easy to kill. A simple read and you can get Fsmash or Dsmash at high percent, or, like stated by Kaffei, Dair his UpB.

Watch out for simple stuff like dash attack -> utilt -> aerial of Diddy's choice. I think you can shield it? Possibly shieldgrab before you get Utilt'd? I forget.
DI his dash attack. It really isn't that hard. A lot of people get hit by really stupid stuff like Dash attack > utilt string
Try not to have to be in that situation in the first place.

Dair camping doesn't work if Diddy has a banana in his hand and another in front iirc

If he has no bananas, Diddy's usually like to go for grabs, so that they can pull some more out. So watch out for that. Try really hard to punish his down-Bs. If you punish that, he's in a bad position, and you have control of a banana.

If he has a banana in front of him and a banana in hand, don't bother approaching. He can cover so many options, and the risk to reward just isn't worth it. Wait for a banana to disappear then try and do something. And if you decide to approach him when he has a banana in hand and on the ground, probably running up and shielding to bait a glide toss > followup that you can up-B OoS.

Grabs get Diddy in the air, where he's more vulnerable to MK. In the air, Diddy can't set up his banana or his stage presence. If Diddy doesn't have at least one of the two, then he can't fight MK at all. Just don't fall for Diddy's Fair (range is ridiculous).

Spoiler

also dont be m2k and get up attack every single time you trip from a banana lololololo

Other Great posts:

I think MK has one of the best banana games, if not potentially as good as Diddy's.

I mean look at all of the extra options he gets. His OoS options get even more ridiculous with the fact that he can up-B OoS you, or throw a banana you and then grab you, and then still maintain banana control. He covers a lot of space in his shield with that.

Or he can tornado you, without losing a banana and pressure the hell out of you with it. And he can kill you with shuttle loop.

He can bait you by throwing a banana at the ground near you, and then tornadoing you when you try and get it. He covers a ******** amount of options with a banana in front of him under his control. God forbid he gains control of two bananas

He has a large glide toss so he can cover ground really quickly, and have follow-ups, along with maintaining control after he gets those really good follow-ups.

His banana game is spectacular, imo.

About ratio, many people thinks 55:45, which seems to be the most logical one.
It might need some more little discuss, but it's fine like that.


Just trying to get this thread moving (and finish it once for all).

 

[Orion*]

55:45 on nuetrals, worse on CPs imo

 

[Player-4]

I'd actually like to to stray away from ratios and go to simple terms like "advan", "slight advan", etc. etc.

 

[Orion*]

just give mk advantage on everything already -.-

 

[Dojo]

Slight advantage for MK.

 

[Jem.]

I don't even know anymore after playing Felix in 20 sets. This matchup is hard as hell on neutrals, and rainbow isn't even a free win. I personally even struggle vs Felix on Brinstar, it always comes down to last hit. (I'm much more comfortable on frigate)

You're in for a brutal set if you lose game 1 though. Especially in best of 3 where diddy thrives.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Idk if this was said in these big *** posts, because I haven't read them yet, but I play and talk with Gnes ALL the time. One thing I can say is, don't perfect shield bananas, it's actually a bad idea, try to Z catch them, or catch them with an aerial, but if you can't do that just basic shield them and gtfo.

Second, when you get tripped by a banana ALWAYS roll away. "Meh, but P4 if you always roll away you become predictable", that's really not the case, the truth is you're going to get carried to the end of the stage no matter what, so why not get there faster and take less damage? Besides all of that, it makes it harder for Diddy to follow up with either moves or bananas, trust me when I say this.

I don't know if anyone already mentioned this but that is actually a bad idea. If you do that, you will be DIing wrong if he happens to go for an early D-smash meaning he can get an early kill on you if the diddy player notices that you always roll back

 

[ぱみゅ]

That's why I didn't add that to the summary.
You can give it a shot, but never EVER get predictable.

 

[Player-4]

Of course you don't want to be predictable, but I'm just taking Gnes' advice he's given me

 

[Orion*]

are you saying...

powershielding < regular shielding?

or z grabbing > powershielding

oh my god dojo your post, it enlightened me on the mu so much :O

 

[demonictoonlink]

Nothing is safe for anyone in this MU.

And game.

Except Wolf's bair.

 

[Jem.]

if you have future vision and know when a banana is gonna be coming at you, just short hop instant throw it down. thats risky though cause if you aren't sure if you have future vision and he doesnt throw it and you just air dodge, you look silly and get punished. so i advise you find out if you indeed do have future vision, and if you do not, i don't recommend guessing.

felix always says "never guess. just react." in reference to bananas.

 

[Orion*]

not enough people upB through bananas its SO obnoxious. but yeah reaction time is really important, in response to felix's quote

i literally have 2 different playstyles for diddy kong

1) if i have sleep

i play a strong powershield//grab ground game. similar to what anti does but i take less risks, which may or may not be a bad thing.

2) if i dont have sleep, i air camp like a ******. real talk LOL

also, i wanted to find a funny way to call you free jem but your name is to short, so ill just call you jem :'(. i was gonna ask to add you aim loool

 

[Kaffei]

lmfaooooooo, orion everytime i saw u you were sleeping
what is up with that!! xD

 

[Orion*]

i was hanging out with allied and atomsk all night!

talking about everything from theory craft to butt sex. and we cuddled no homo... maybe.


real talk i need to find like the PERFECT medium of sleep for brawl tournaments. to much is to bad, to little is to bad. that 7 hours so im just a LITTLE tired is so good lmao

but the past .... few weeks ive been used to playing without sleep. i usually always sleep well before tournaments except at nationals for some stupid reason (all by choice though obv).

the last few tournaments i went ot i had no sleep on, and ive been wifiing at like 6-7am on like no sleep every now and then so i just am starting to adapt. hopefully jet lag wont be to different XD

edit: kaffei WTF why are you up so late

also, double edit: i play pretty good tipsy imo. managed to perfectly grab release allieds mk with marth in a mm (that he tripped into LOL) on his last stock to win XDDD

 

[etecoon]

the last few tournaments i went ot i had no sleep on, and ive been wifiing at like 6-7am on like no sleep every now and then so i just am starting to adapt. hopefully jet lag wont be to different XD

sounds like me lmao

been ****ed up lately and sleeping like 2-3 hours a day, I think my general insane unhealthiness is probably one of my biggest weaknesses as a smasher, hard to play well like this

 

[Orion*]

i still think. that match against the kirby you won is HANDS down the funniest thing i have ever seen ever. like i will never get over that LOL
NEVER

 

[etecoon]

that's the second time in a row where I ended a set against him on some stupid bull **** too, like 2 weeks before that I got a random *** snake fair like near the bottom of the screen on halberd when he was trying to gimp me, I kinda feel bad lol

 

[Jem.]

not enough people upB through bananas its SO obnoxious. but yeah reaction time is really important, in response to felix's quote

i literally have 2 different playstyles for diddy kong

1) if i have sleep

i play a strong powershield//grab ground game. similar to what anti does but i take less risks, which may or may not be a bad thing.

2) if i dont have sleep, i air camp like a ******. real talk LOL

also, i wanted to find a funny way to call you free jem but your name is to short, so ill just call you jem :'(. i was gonna ask to add you aim loool

lol calling me jem is the best way to call me free . ima free win.

jairmy daymin is my aim.

 

[Orion*]

that's the second time in a row where I ended a set against him on some stupid bull **** too, like 2 weeks before that I got a random *** snake fair like near the bottom of the screen on halberd when he was trying to gimp me, I kinda feel bad lol

LOL yo you need to record this ****, and then his facial reactions

 

[Omni]

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that's how you beat Diddy

 

[Kaffei]

Omg lmao!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kaffei]

i was hanging out with allied and atomsk all night!

talking about everything from theory craft to butt sex. and we cuddled no homo... maybe.


real talk i need to find like the PERFECT medium of sleep for brawl tournaments. to much is to bad, to little is to bad. that 7 hours so im just a LITTLE tired is so good lmao

but the past .... few weeks ive been used to playing without sleep. i usually always sleep well before tournaments except at nationals for some stupid reason (all by choice though obv).

the last few tournaments i went ot i had no sleep on, and ive been wifiing at like 6-7am on like no sleep every now and then so i just am starting to adapt. hopefully jet lag wont be to different XD

edit: kaffei WTF why are you up so late

also, double edit: i play pretty good tipsy imo. managed to perfectly grab release allieds mk with marth in a mm (that he tripped into LOL) on his last stock to win XDDD

looooooooooooooool ahahahhaaha that is good ****
and idk im always up late lol

 

[Jem.]

I play vs a godlike diddy every tournament, Omni. That doesn't work :[

 

[Yunior597]

that's how you beat Diddy

You are the best no doubt XD and you also created the omnigay...

btw:a omnigay combo video lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u7ALCa0fNc

About Diddy Kong:

Try to PowerShield every banana, mostly the diddy will come after you to grab you or something, just grab them or up b whatever if they come to you after you power shield the banana.

Also try to grab the banana and throw them in the air....

Use a lot of tornado when they dont have any banana on hand they cant do anything about it...

Edgeguarding: if they recover low wait for his up b and do your up b that will kill them for sure...

 

[a male platypus]

Diddy is by far my least favorite match up, and I'm not exactly the most well known player, but I do have a few things to say on this match up.

First of all, power shielding EVERY banana is a bad idea. I'd say it's a situational strategy at best. Diddy is a quick SOB so if he predicts a power shield you can expect to get punished in some shape or form. Obviously this relies heavily on how much distance is between you and Diddy. If you can judge his speed, you can actually punish him as he tries to punish you. Shuttle Loop OoS is great.

However a powershield into a ROLL almost always seems to work. If you can get down the timing to powershield and roll back it will f*** with Diddy's mind. Again, keep mixing things up but you get the idea.

Z-grabbing bananas (or whatever it's called when you air dodge and grab stuff) is also really useful, especially on stages like BF or SV where bananas will get stuck on plaforms. Get used to it, one of my FAVORITE things to do against Diddy is get him off stage to where he has to recover vertically, and throw a banana down as he UpB's. The banana hits him and his lil barrel rockets go flying everywhere.

That being said, catching bananas can really turn the match around. Diddy obviously relies on his bananas, and a Diddy without Bananas is just a Fair/Dsmash/Fsmash machine. If you can find a way to punish his bananas, catch them and use them, or just neutralize them you're really limiting Diddy on his actions, and thus forcing him to try and adapt. Therefore hopefully making him easier to punish.

Watch out for Fair! This move always takes me by surprise, I never expect it to have such good range or be so fast, or be so strong. It's really just a good move, so be prepared for it.

Don't get humped. **** is bad, predict the side-B. Almost all Diddy's will do it as a way to recover to stage, and if you predict it you can run over and grab the stage either forcing him on stage, or HOPEFULLY below it. Once he's below, do a fast-falled Nair, or Dair and get an easy gimp.

Now on the offensive side, I really think Diddy hates to be grabbed by MK. I suggest that if you can get a grab, go for it. If you Dthrow a Diddy they seem to do 2 things all the time, Either side-B or Fair. Both of which can be punished easily enough when you're ready for them. But the best part about grabbing him, is the amount of pressure it puts on Diddy. He's desperately going to be trying to get away from you, and get back to his precious bananas. This is when Diddy is most likely to make mistakes, and where you're most likely to get kills and rack up some nice %

Well, there's my two cents.

 

[Kaffei]

Idk if this has been mentioned:

If you are holding a banana, and diddy grabs you and throws u, if you z drop the banana as you are getting tossed diddy will trip if he tries to dash>follow up so your position is reset kind of

 

[Orion*]

at what percents is this?

also, debatebly that can give diddy both bananas back, it may be better to just keep one in your hand