Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Diddy Kong

[demonictoonlink]

Stupid ****ing monkey annoying *** bananas **** **** *** ****

Don't just post a matchup ratio. That isn't helpful. We'll decide on one eventually but it does little to further the metagame.

So yeah, GOGOGO.

 

[Kaffei]

Learning how to use Bananas is very important in this MU.
If Diddy throws a Banana at your shield and he tries to follow up, you can GSL OOS, but this can be baited & punished.
When edge guarding Diddy you should be above him not linear or below, so you don't get spiked or humped.
When he's charging his Up b off stage, you should dair him. If he's blasting already then nair (invincinair if you can)

That's all I know I sux plsmen pro advice someone

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I have to ask, what in the world does GSL mean?

If you want to steal bananas then you can catch them off of your shield (shield, jump, catch) but most Diddy's will expect that so meh.
Don't fall for stupid stuff like Diddy's Dtilt combos. If he Dtilts you, get away before he Dtilts you again or rolls behind you and does more Dtilts or grab you, lulz.

Tornado beats everything but bananas if you don't get spiked or hit at the start.
Diddy is hella easy to kill. A simple read and you can get Fsmash or Dsmash at high percent, or, like stated by Kaffei, Dair his UpB. Although, if I can't Dair him, instead of going for Nair I like to grab the ledge, forcing him onto the stage, then punish with a grab (if I can't get there in time for a smash) or Fsmash/Dsmash.

I guess watch out for simple stuff like dash attack -> utilt -> aerial of Diddy's choice. I think you can shield it? Possibly shieldgrab before you get Utilt'd? I forget.
Try not to have to be in that situation in the first place.

Dair camping is always nice. Most likely Diddy Kong will go for Peanut Gun or aerial bananas (lol) if you try that.

Stages? Hmm. On Battlefield, if you shield bananas, they'll pop up onto platforms but that usually isn't a problem because Diddy can easily retrieve them with aerials or a regular catch. But you can stay on the top platform and be hella safe, for the most part. FD is FD. A lot of MKs will ban here against Diddy... which is why a lot of Diddy's know the matchup at SV. Although you shouldn't be too afraid of SV, you should be cautious. Then again... see: scrooging. I don't know if Diddy likes Yoshi's Island or not.

Again, Brinstar is my Metaknight stage of choice. But Diddy can get earlier kills here with Fair of the sides, so watch out. Break the stage in the middle easily with tornado, hide behind breakable pillar things on the side if necessary (roll behind it). Bananas and Peanuts won't get past it, you're right next to the edge, and Diddy will have trouble approaching you when you're in such an advantageous position. You don't even need to plank or shark, although both are easily accessible options from that position.
Rainbow Cruise is good too. Diddy will have trouble maneuvering half as well as you do around that stage, and banana combos are just about useless if you have half a brain.

I might add more later.

 

[Kaffei]

GSL = Grounded Shuttle Loop

Dair camping doesn't work if Diddy has a banana in his hand and another in front iirc

 

[Smash G 0 D]

smashboards needs to stop being a fail

 

[Smash G 0 D]

OH I was like "lolwut?"

Meh. Then don't Dair camp him if that's the case. :D

Just don't land near him, I guess.

 

[Kaffei]

also dont be m2k and get up attack every single time you trip from a banana lololololo

 

[Smash G 0 D]

If Diddy needs to get grab his other banana, I think you can roll away and powershield in time. Unless I'm imagining things.

I never actually memorize stuff for matchups. I just visualize stuff I think works and do it. xD

 

[demonictoonlink]

I would post now but I just can't.

So yeah, I'll say stuff even though I suck at this MU.

BTW Smash God's posts are great. I need to add his Snake one in the OP.

BTW I picture you looking like Edward Cullen in a top hat with a British accent.

 

[theunabletable]

Learn his banana tricks for yourself. Stuff like instant throwing, glide tossing, etc. In fact, I'd say secondary Diddy. Just for friendlies, but learn all of his tricks.

Uhm I don't know much about it, but it's my personal favorite matchup to play. Not becaue I'm good at it, but because it's just ****ing fun lol

Some little stuff I've learned though.

His shield will NEVER ****ING POKE EVER EVER EVER

EVER

****ING NEVER

Just a heads up on that.

Watch Dojo vs Gnes; he plays that matchup really well. And Anti and Shadow play it really well too, so watch their matches against ADHD.

If he dash attacks your shield, don't even bother trying to up-B or something. It has like no lag on shield (I think frame advantage on shield for him is like -4. So after a shield drop or a jump, he has frame advantage. And your up-B OoS won't hit him. It's stupid).

DI his dash attack. It really isn't that hard. A lot of people get hit by really stupid stuff like Dash attack > utilt string.

Tornado can be good, but you have to be careful with it. Like if you have one of his bananas, it might be harder for him to punish nados. And if he doesn't have any bananas, tornado is pretty much unpunishable. Also... spacing nado above his throw range is good. Like you can nado and space it so that the banana that he throws at you goes right under you, but you still hit him.

If he doesn't have any bananas, you can kinda pressure him with stuff. If you pressure him to the ledge and he doesn't have a banana, he doesn't have many options, and he's in a bad position.

If he has no bananas, Diddy's usually like to go for grabs, so that they can pull some more out. So watch out for that. Try really hard to punish his down-Bs. If you punish that, he's in a bad position, and you have control of a banana.

Oh and an annoying little trick that Diddy's like to do. If the Diddy is charging his popgun at you, there's a good chance that the moment you get near him, he'll shield cancel it > glide toss. It's stupid and annoying

If he has a banana in front of him and a banana in hand, don't bother approaching. He can cover so many options, and the risk to reward just isn't worth it. Wait for a banana to disappear then try and do something. And if you decide to approach him when he has a banana in hand and on the ground, probably running up and shielding to bait a glide toss > followup that you can up-B OoS.

Falling nair can gimp his recovery pretty well.

For stages:
You'll almost always want to strike and ban FD. If you can think of a reason for why you'd do better here than on SV, then ban SV instead, but I can't think of one...

If you go to SV, scrooging can help a lot. It's like FD, but with a platform that you can play gayer with.

Personally I kind of like BF in this matchup. I personally feel really comfortable on BF in this matchup, and with 5 neutrals with striking, you'll probably end up here.

Brinstar, RC, and Delfino are all good for CPs. And Norfair with MLG rules can be really good too, imo. Someone already mentioned Brinstar and the stuff you can do there against Diddy. It's Brinstar, just do Brinstary stuff against Diddy and you'll do okay.

RC is, again, RC. You're just all around really good here.

You can camp his ****ing *** off on Delfino.

On Norfair it's really hard for him to gain control of the stage, he can't really combo you, and you can pressure him with uairs and stuff.

It's a weird matchup that I'd reaaally like more experience in, but I find it really fun. Idk much about it, I'm gonna study some more matches first.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I'd like to add that while you CAN, in fact, do a lot of camping of delfino, you need to be cautious because of walls that giddy can catch you in with bananas and small side kill zones that will help Diddy's smash take you out early. Just a note of caution.
DTL, you described my pretty accurately. ;P

 

[Player-4]

Idk if this was said in these big *** posts, because I haven't read them yet, but I play and talk with Gnes ALL the time. One thing I can say is, don't perfect shield bananas, it's actually a bad idea, try to Z catch them, or catch them with an aerial, but if you can't do that just basic shield them and gtfo.

Second, when you get tripped by a banana ALWAYS roll away. "Meh, but P4 if you always roll away you become predictable", that's really not the case, the truth is you're going to get carried to the end of the stage no matter what, so why not get there faster and take less damage? Besides all of that, it makes it harder for Diddy to follow up with either moves or bananas, trust me when I say this.

 

[theunabletable]

@Smash god: Yeah be careful of getting banana locked on the walk offs.

That makes sense, P4. I'll definitely remember that.

 

[Exdeath]

One thing I can say is, don't perfect shield bananas, it's actually a bad idea, try to Z catch them, or catch them with an aerial, but if you can't do that just basic shield them and gtfo.

It's not that simple. If, for example, Meta Knight is beneath the left Battlefield platform and Diddy is nearly the right, it is a good option to powershield the banana and react. If Diddy has another banana, the situation is essentially just as it was before, except that now Diddy only has one banana.

Also, fresh B is very good against Diddy when he doesn't have a banana. If you're retreating it properly, you won't be punished and most Diddys that I have played will either approach you after you B (because they think that they can punish you) or go for a banana. After a fresh B on Diddy's shield, the next one will poke.

 

[Player-4]

Yeah that's one thing about Nado against Diddy, if he doesn't have a naner, Nado the **** out of him. There's almost nothing he can do to punish you for it if you do it right.

Btw, did anyone ask the Diddys to help out in the discussion?

 

[Kaffei]

I will .

 

[Grizzer]

If he dash attacks your shield, don't even bother trying to up-B or something. It has like no lag on shield (I think frame advantage on shield for him is like -4. So after a shield drop or a jump, he has frame advantage. And your up-B OoS won't hit him. It's stupid).

you can grab diddy right through his dash attack, shield hit 1 and grab, shield 1,2 then grab, shield 1,2,3 then grab, upB oos before the dash attack hits your shield, upb after hit 1,2 or 3

uhm, no, diddies dash attack has little lag, but certainly enough to punish

 

[FelixTrix]

i'm with mew2king so like diddy has like a bunch of options against mk and can camp so if you play diddy just go aggressive, take the first stock, and time him out cause it's what m2k does i seen his vids.

 

[vato_break]

idk this matchup hard i kno lol i play it alot

 

[theunabletable]

you can grab diddy right through his dash attack, shield hit 1 and grab, shield 1,2 then grab, shield 1,2,3 then grab, upB oos before the dash attack hits your shield, upb after hit 1,2 or 3

uhm, no, diddies dash attack has little lag, but certainly enough to punish

What's the shield advantage for Diddy's dash attack on last hit?

 

[ADHD]

Yea I give up this matchup sucks go to hell stupidchar.

43-57.

 

[Player-4]

Yea I give up this matchup sucks go to hell stupidchar.

43-57.

Gnes can do it

 

[mb?]

Yea I give up this matchup sucks go to hell stupidchar.

43-57.

nah its 45-55

 

[Kaffei]

Yea I give up this matchup sucks go to hell stupidchar.

43-57.

pls no Mr. Wyatt u da bess Dee Dee Kahng

 

[Grizzer]

What's the shield advantage for Diddy's dash attack on last hit?

i believe its like -8 or so, which means that grabs give a 4 frame window (spotdodge able on frame 10)

 

[Smash G 0 D]

i'm with mew2king so like diddy has like a bunch of options against mk and can camp so if you play diddy just go aggressive, take the first stock, and time him out cause it's what m2k does i seen his vids.

This guy knows his stuff.

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

i'm with mew2king so like diddy has like a bunch of options against mk and can camp so if you play diddy just go aggressive, take the first stock, and time him out cause it's what m2k does i seen his vids.

Yeah... no. If MK goes stupidly aggressive, he loses. If MK plays incredible campy, he loses (unless he's planking). However, as ADHD said in the old matchup thread, anywhere in between is perfectly fine.

MK wins this match up, for a few reasons. First off, anything Diddy does, MK has a response to. Banana throw, MK can either shield to Z-Catch, jump and Z-catch, whatever. MK then has control of a banana, and thus, just as much (if not more) field control as Diddy.

The kill:death ratio in this matchup is also stupidly lopsided towards MK. If MK DIs correctly, he should be living to about 150% each stock (barring any stupid **** like a Dair spike). Diddy's earliest kill move, Fsmash, is SDI-able. If MK sees this coming (and he should), he should never get hit by the final hit; thus, he should never get killed by it. Diddy's Dsmash, if fresh, could kill at the edge of a stage at about 100% (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I really don't know), but Diddys will often use it for damage wracking. Thus, it's not really a threat for a while.

Bananas. They're the meat of Diddy's game, and without them, he's probably C-Tier. That's how important they are to him. And unfortunately for Diddy, MK has probably more answers to bananas than any other character in the game. As I explained earlier, you can catch them fairly reliably as MK. Also, people fear the bananas... don't! They only occupy a small space. Just keep your spacing tight, and watch for them, and they shouldn't be a huge problem.

Also, grab grab grab grab grab! Grabs get Diddy in the air, where he's more vulnerable to MK. In the air, Diddy can't set up his banana or his stage presence. If Diddy doesn't have at least one of the two, then he can't fight MK at all. In the air, it's probably 65:35 MK's advantage or more. Just don't fall for Diddy's Fair (range is ridiculous).

Watch this.

Video above demonstrates perfectly how to play the matchup. Probably 60:40 MK's favor if you want a ratio.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I understand Kaffei now!!!

I'll say some stuff soon, but anyone saying 65-35 needs to reevaluate a lot of things.

 

[Kaffei]

60:40 lmao that's cute

wtf @ DTL

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

According to IIRC Gnes, there are some naner tricks that make this matchup like 70-30 in MK's favor. Just thought I'd mention that, good luck getting them out of him. xD

 

[swordgard]

According to IIRC Gnes, there are some naner tricks that make this matchup like 70-30 in MK's favor. Just thought I'd mention that, good luck getting them out of him. xD

Once you master weak glide tossing and pressing down to grab faster, free grabs arise from every occasion for MK.


Did I just reveal part of it?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

He never actually said what it was, but MK's naner control game is also fairly beastly...

I mean, looking at this matchup, the biggest advantages MK seems to have are:
-***** diddy offstage
-can get diddy offstage if he gets decent banana control going
-Can get decent banana control going fairly simply due to his obscene air game
-Can stall until naners disappear if diddy is camping too hard with them.

It really doesn't seem like it's that good for diddy once MK learns the MU.

 

[Gnes]

Once you master weak glide tossing and pressing down to grab faster, free grabs arise from every occasion for MK.


Did I just reveal part of it?

Hahaha this why i love u swordgard. Little things like this.

and idk if i said 70-30....i dont really like putting ratios on things.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Hahaha this why i love u swordgard. Little things like this.

and idk if i said 70-30....i dont really like putting ratios on things.

Well you said it was REALLY bad.
C'mon man, spill the beans.

 

[swordgard]

Hahaha this why i love u swordgard. Little things like this.

and idk if i said 70-30....i dont really like putting ratios on things.

The info needed to break matchups is scattered all around the boards, then you just need some processing power to crack it.


Notice how MKs glide throw should be used downwards most of the time since its so long, its auto trip on the shield even at long distance.

 

[ぱみゅ]

-MK should air camp him but do not throw random aerials, or you'll eat a fresh Fair.
-If he does not have a banana, you can play aggro and build loads of damage before he gets one.
-Always got between babanas and Diddy, most Diddys will go greedy and try to get them. If you got a naner, DO NOT use it against him, you can glide toss it downwards. Glide forward for ledge pressure (Dsmash) or ledgeguard. Glide backwards so the naner is close enough so if Diddy goes for it, it fall in your attack range.

Anyways, I don't have many Diddy experience, is all I can tell for some random battles I had a while ago.

imo, Diddy has a lot of banana tricks that make up this matchup.
60:40 sounds good, but NEVER understimate how a naner can change things out.

 

[QUIVO]

Dude, all you have to do is plank

 

[Grizzer]

-MK should air camp him but do not throw random aerials, or you'll eat a fresh Fair.
-If he does not have a banana, you can play aggro and build loads of damage before he gets one.
-Always got between babanas and Diddy, most Diddys will go greedy and try to get them. If you got a naner, DO NOT use it against him, you can glide toss it downwards. Glide forward for ledge pressure (Dsmash) or ledgeguard. Glide backwards so the naner is close enough so if Diddy goes for it, it fall in your attack range.

Anyways, I don't have many Diddy experience, is all I can tell for some random battles I had a while ago.

imo, Diddy has a lot of banana tricks that make up this matchup.
60:40 sounds good, but NEVER understimate how a naner can change things out.

why eat a fresh fair? diddies fair is NEVER fresh -.-

 

[TheJerm]

I'd say this match up is 60/40 diddy. Gnes always beats MK. I'll teach you guys his biggest secret.

Step one: Banana pull (twice)
Step two: Get behind a banana
Step three: With other banana in hand, shoot peanuts

On second thought, this may be 65/35 diddy =/

 

[QUIVO]

IMO it's 70/30 Gnes : /

I tried to do it the other night and ****, monkey is too good