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Meta Knight Q&A Thread

ぱみゅ

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If it's low percentages, I'd use, instead of Up B, Fair or Nair second hit, so Wario can bite and lead to a couple more hits.
Just sayin'
 

linkez

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
40
mmh maybe first hit bair is even better?
anyway, i didn't consider the bite cause the partner will most likely reach you in time,
but when the time of a bite is given it is surely a good option.
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
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Nair is easily the best way for MK to assist in a combo. Its quick, does 20 damage, and the hitlag can still give Wario time to land Uair.
 

Aefice

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
85
i beat someone in winners semis 3-1 using mk vs diddy kong.

i lost winners finals.

in losers finals i played the same diddy kong and in the first game i SD'd twice which lost me the momentum in the set.

i wasn't overly-pressured or nervous.

the only things i can think of causing me to play below my normal level would be fatigue or being disapointed from losing winners finals.

this has happened before where i've sd'd vs the person later in the day which loses the momentum in the set.
i rarely sd ever.

any advice would be much appreciated.
 

Kaffei

Smash Hero
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i beat someone in winners semis 3-1 using mk vs diddy kong.

i lost winners finals.

in losers finals i played the same diddy kong and in the first game i SD'd twice which lost me the momentum in the set.

i wasn't overly-pressured or nervous.

the only things i can think of causing me to play below my normal level would be fatigue or being disapointed from losing winners finals.

this has happened before where i've sd'd vs the person later in the day which loses the momentum in the set.
i rarely sd ever.

any advice would be much appreciated.
I guess practice against CPUs so you have optimal execution so you don't SD
 

Aefice

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
85
a diddy kong keeps airdodgeing out of my tornados.

how is that happening? am i doing the nado incorrectly? do i need to mash b faster? i nado at diddy kongs head height usually.
 

Therea4Gl

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
1
Help!:(

Umm,Can someone Tell me what i can do against the Olimar Match up?I wanna beat someone thats on the PR Over here and i come really close,Knowing the matchup Would Increase my chances of winning.
 

ぱみゅ

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Do not Tornado his full shield. Just don't.
Learn to space Dairs while Dair camping, but watch out for Pikmin Chain and Usmash.
Do not challenge him on the ground, you might get grabbed, or worse, Smashed. Fast Dtilts are somewhat good, tho.
You can just shield a Pikmin Throw and they'll get past you without attaching. Uair, Nair, Bair, Dsmash are all good for getting rid to attached Pikmins. You can also shield their hits (some are harder to PS than others).
Also learn to juggle him. Uairing with the very tip and act accordig his airdodge/whistle/jump/DI

Speaking of Juggling, I've been having problems juggling Wario, any tip?
 

Orion*

Smash Researcher
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Do not Tornado his full shield. Just don't.
Learn to space Dairs while Dair camping, but watch out for Pikmin Chain and Usmash.
Do not challenge him on the ground, you might get grabbed, or worse, Smashed. Fast Dtilts are somewhat good, tho.
You can just shield a Pikmin Throw and they'll get past you without attaching. Uair, Nair, Bair, Dsmash are all good for getting rid to attached Pikmins. You can also shield their hits (some are harder to PS than others).
Also learn to juggle him. Uairing with the very tip and act accordig his airdodge/whistle/jump/DI

Speaking of Juggling, I've been having problems juggling Wario, any tip?
because of his horizontal air mobility you really have to read his landing, because punishment for ****ing up is well... pretty gay even with no fart. dont like HARD dash to where you think he will be just walk under him be ready to chase with a sh uair option select.

i dont think shuttle loop is worth it generally, but before he has fart its worth it to test to see if he can buffer the fullhop uair oos to punish the grounded one.

if they waste the double jump early and try and just do dumb **** you can essentially just nado. just space it so its hard to get daired lol
 

theunabletable

Smash Lord
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Against Olimar, learn his recovery and learn when you can gimp it, and practice beating each of his whiffs on reaction. If he's not able to throw stuff out liberally while recovering without losing his stock, the matchup gets a lot more difficult for Olimar. Don't try and juggle him directly from below, stay diagonal.

In fact, when in the air, just be diagonal to Olimar at all times. His whistle and his moves from in front/behind/above/below all make it partly a risk to like perform anything, as he has a chance of hitting you, and now you're at a neutral position again (neutral position against Olimar is basically a disadvantaged position lol).

He doesn't have anything that hits diagonally while in the air (or even on the ground really), except up-B if you're above him, but it's REALLY risky for him, and you can bait it, and then punish it super hard.

When approaching, stay at that angle, but slightly further away. Basically juuuust out of range of up B. If he jumps, you get almost a completely free nado if you get to the ground immediately (to cover him immediately double jumping preemptively to stop you tornadoing), as at that position when he's landing, you can just run up and hit his landing. I mean, if you're playing someone who knows that position really well, it's still RPS, because he has something that beats all of your options, but ALL of those options get beaten by waiting, which is VERY powerful. All of his options get beaten by waiting, his waiting is the only thing that returns it to even being close to a neutral position again.

If he throws a pikmin while in the air, you can safely tornado, although hitting with it isn't guaranteed, that's an RPS situation, but tornado is an option you can throw out without danger of getting hit if he throws a pikmin while in the air.

When his shield is low you can tornado him really bad.

Glide attack is really good against Olimar if you slow it down, and tilt it up, and space it well.

Basically, learn to gimp him, abuse his diagonal weakness (it's important for juggling him), and learn all the options you can punish on reaction, and execute all that well.

Once you learn those things, and continue thinking about it, it won't take long before you get which situations are rock, paper, scissors situations, and which ones aren't. Of course even with those things I mentioned, it's still possible to lose the matchup. It goes a lot deeper than those 3 things, but against an Olimar who isn't really good, and doesn't know how to deal with those things that well, they'll help a LOT (even against really good Olimars), and when you master all those, you'll probably start to figure out when it is you need to read him, and when you need to bait him.

The better player will largely win, both characters can punish everything almost anything the other character does, but MK does punish a bit harder.

Oh and as Anuar was telling me yesterday. Against Olimar, above all, DON'T GET FRUSTRATED. If that happens against Olimar, you lose lol.
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
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well ive decided to activate my characters bat armor upgrade and start going MK instead of pit. could someone link me to all the threads that list MKs ATs, frame/range data, and other stuff i should start catchin up on plz? are there any unlisted youtube vids i should be made privy too?
 

ぱみゅ

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How can you properly deal with the MK mirror? I've been having trouble with that mu/ :I
In my opinion, any mirror is just based off the individuals skill.
Yes and no.
As both players (should) know their distances, you can't outrange your opponent.
In general, a mirror match is about trying not to fall for dumb things, try to read your opponent, being extremely careful with frametraps, stuff that can be buffered and how to punish them.
A ditto is very complex.

For MK specifically I would recommend avoid being above him, as he can either Uair string or Shuttle Loop (that can kill really early), and watch out for Dairs when both are in the air.
ASave Dsmashes for a late kill (140 or something like that), you may don't want to have it decayed when both are at death percentages and lacking of kill options.
Also, Grounded Shuttle Loop is good for punishes, but is also very punishable if you miss with it. Just be careful.
Lastly, get grabs whenever you can (but be sure to get grab), is the most damaging option, specially at low percentages as you can connect a string for like 25-30 damage.

Is all the short advice I can give atm.
 

theunabletable

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On the MK ditto:

The neutral position can be played any way that you like, if you're good enough. If you read him, and space well, you can counter anything he does at almost any time. Being in the air isn't bad, although knowing the timings for everything and how to bait from the air is a lot more difficult than playing grounded, so if you're learning, playing on the ground can be better.

Fair can be good for spacing, also.

Learn everything you can bait, and practice punishing those things. Find which positions you can punish whiffs in, and gravitate towards those positions, and don't whiff yourself, 'cause he'll be doing the same lol.

Here's a really big tip for being offstage:

Get lower.

Recovering with dimensional cape is really good if you space it so that you can be uairing safely offstage, preventing him from attacking you while covering the ledge (but not so close that he can hit you), but close enough that if he were to grab the ledge and you DC, you'll go past him and land on the stage (he'll get a free fair, but 10% for being back on stage isn't so bad).

If he's charging Fsmash, know that your glide attack can beat it if you tilt up and tipper it. It's really helpful if you're playing someone who likes Fsmash on the ledge a lot, if you don't use glide attack it can be a really tough option to beat.

If you're below the ledge, practice from how low you can be and still be within range of using a single double jump, and then a shuttle loop, and getting back onto the ledge or stage. If you know that spacing really well, any time you're being edge guarded and you're afraid of DCing, you can just get lower than the MK, and if he commits to an invincinair or something, you can punish it afterwards with a free uair or shuttle loop.

Don't overcommit your juggles, MK comes down eventually. Although don't be afraid to throw out a uair, either. Just be careful with your chasing, as a jump>uair is more susceptible to getting falling-dair'd than a falling uair is. Or even to getting beaten by a falling air dodge.

And DON'T just throw out random shuttle loops in the air. I mean do it if you really feel it'll hit, but be weary of it. Although at the same time, learn which things it can punish, because it does have a LOT of uses, and you wouldn't want to restrict yourself.

Pretty much all of MK's aerials can be punished on shield with grounded shuttle loop, although the rare perfectly spaced fair can avoid it, and I think crossup-fullhop nair can beat it, too.

Although if it can be punished with dair out of shield, use that instead (as with most matchups, but not all). If you get to 110%+ with shuttle loop still fresh, that's a big deal.

If you're standing at the ledge, and they're offstage, and you shield their uair, and they used a double jump, you can up B it EVERY time. If they do a falling one, though, you can't, and if you throw out a shuttle loop that'll miss, they have a better chance of recovering.

You can juggle him with uair, but don't just throw out uairs. MK's dair is comparable range, so if he times it well, you still have to mix up your timing.

If he tornados your shield, and he lands near you, you can Dsmash and it won't matter if crossed you up or not. If he landed far away, dash attack is pretty good because it lasts a while, and your timing won't be especially important, but often you can punish with a dash grab.

If you're recovering, and he's sitting low as if he's gonna shuttle loop you or something, if you can get sufficiently higher than him, you can tornado straight to midstage. Although it's dangerous because if he knows where you're going, and is good at the spacing, he can shuttle loop your nado, and if you're holding towards midstage, your DI'll be ****. You can do it to him, though, too.

In general, though, the DC to the ledge diagonally is really good.

Above all, though, have fun. It's a fast matchup, and if you're having fun with it, you'll learn it better. It really mostly comes down to good fundamentals, but this is also a matchup that improves your fundamentals a ton, as well. It's good practice, and is very fun. The better player will usually win this one, simply because it's so fundamentals based. Ground spacing with tilts and stuff is great, and you can punish a lot with them.

Is bair first 2 hits -> turnaround grab a legit combo or is it a bit too slow?
Yeah, atleast as far as I can tell. I've never had it miss, but maybe someone like Marth or G&W can avoid with their up B.

Single hit bair is, anyways, I don't usually use get 2 hits of bair so I'm not certain about that one haha.

Dair>fair or bair is a truecombo, btw, and from a shorthop you can fit dair+1 or 2 hits of fair, or 1 hit of bair. So at certain percentages, you can dair>fair/bair>followups.

In general, I think there's a lot of potential in, when aircamping, baiting, and punishing some things that you see with first hit bair, or fair.
 

Tesh

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He is the most studied character in the game Maharba, there are no secrets. Just go practice.
 

Magma Dolphin

Smash Apprentice
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I know Dimensional Cape is great for recovery and (from watching Japan players) that it can be used for some fun movement around the stage itself. However, can DC be taken to the next level and be used in ways similar to that of Mewtwo's teleport in melee such as it is used by Taj for example. I am aware DC is slower than Teleport and is more disruptable. Do those factors really make a huge difference?

I feel this move is underused and could be broken in some way that is not the IDC glitch, thoughts?
 

C.J.

Smash Master
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Can Marth grabrelease to regrab us?
Only under one super-specific scenario. If Marth has a stun jacket, he can GR-> DB1-> regrab you. Other than that he can't.


So to answer your question, no.

Oh, and on the SV platform too I guess.
 

Orion*

Smash Researcher
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In my opinion, any mirror is just based off the individuals skill.
Well... any matchup in general is. It's just a mirror is perfectly balanced, the only difference being what skills are tested more than others. Ex: having broken *** item control won't help in MK dittos even if you're the best in the world with it (extreme example but i hope my point gets across)
well ive decided to activate my characters bat armor upgrade and start going MK instead of pit. could someone link me to all the threads that list MKs ATs, frame/range data, and other stuff i should start catchin up on plz? are there any unlisted youtube vids i should be made privy too?
there aren't any like super ATs. just practice fluidity on and off stage, and spacing.

watch other good mks. theres no secret youtube vids lol

where do i find a list for MK's true combos and frame traps?
There aren't any really, most things can be escaped with proper sdi

Is bair first 2 hits -> turnaround grab a legit combo or is it a bit too slow?
this and tables combos actually dont work if you sdi up/away. they are still fairly consistent vs many players, but since ksizzle used spam stuff like that i had to find a way out >_>

this is in general mostly just solid information across the board, not just mk specific for people reading
yall aren't very active are you :(
was going to salt
He is the most studied character in the game Maharba, there are no secrets. Just go practice.
then LOLOLOL
Can Marth grabrelease to regrab us?
dont talk about stuff like that. EVER
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
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Its a glitch that occurs when Marth counters a melee attack but his sword can't reach or hit his opponent. Happens sometimes when very high range attacks or nearly lagless attacks (like spindash) get countered. The next time Marth hits his opponent, there is a bunch of extra hitlag that only applies to his target.

I think it lets him dancing blade a shield and then grab for free too.
 

theunabletable

Smash Lord
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Oh wow, I've never seen that, that's crazy haha. And counters miss moderately often against Marth with well spaced nados.

geez that's really good lol
 

C.J.

Smash Master
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Oh wow, I've never seen that, that's crazy haha. And counters miss moderately often against Marth with well spaced nados.

geez that's really good lol
You see it a lot >_> You just don't pay attention. I know I saw it in Mike vs TKD at least twice last night.


And Marth gets DB1->anything on hit and on shield with a stun jacket. Maybe not usmash/SB.

Oh and it's not just the next time Marth hits the opponent. It's the next time Marth is part of an attack. So if someone hits Marth, they get a free follow-up on him as well.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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C.J. is there a guide or anything extensive about the stun jacket? I find it very interesting and want to know more.
 
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