Melee Match-Up Chart (NTSC) [Update 008 - 09.09.28]

[Faithkeeper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CITKEZ06xIE&feature=related
I'm pretty sure YS is Roy's best stage. Not only did Sethlon CP it, he won on it.

Also, if someone is CCing you against Roy, is there any reason you shouldn't just swords dance 3rd hit them? The use of swords dance is common enough they might not expect you to do it. (or they may be able to punish you in between hits, idk)

 

[Dark Sonic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CITKEZ06xIE&feature=related
I'm pretty sure YS is Roy's best stage. Not only did Sethlon CP it, he won on it.

Also, if someone is CCing you against Roy, is there any reason you shouldn't just swords dance 3rd hit them? The use of swords dance is common enough they might not expect you to do it. (or they may be able to punish you in between hits, idk)

Yoshi's story is only good for Roy because of the close blastzones (he's a fast faller with a bad recovery, he doesn't need a lot of space). NOT because of the platforms

You can hit Roy in between the hits of DB with a fast enough attack (most d-smashes actually <_<)

 

[unknown522]

Not that I actually watched the matches vs sethlon, Mango didn't know what he was doing in the matchup. For every move that he got hit by while on the ground, he could've just CC -> grab -> CG -> stock. It really is that easy (sadly). Even if they DI off the stage, you can take the ledge and force him back on, then CG again (or do a f-air while they are offstage, lol). Mango was jumping around vs roy, which is the worst thing to do in the matchup (and most matchups), but he still won.

 

[Plairnkk]

Yeah, sheik vs roy is a joke. I ***** neo countless times in that **** just cuz its so easy, dont even need to cg


at our tourney yesterday i ***** everyone terribly but lost to chu in winners finals and GF. he massacred me. IC's are ghey as FACK vs sheik =[

(at least chus are) -.-

 

[strawhats]

Which tourney was this ?

Does anyone have vids of SS vs. Sethlon from Genesis?

 

[Afro_Chris]

Unknown522 posting:

lol sheik

 

[Plairnkk]

chus biweekly

 

[unknown522]

^ needs more platform camp and gay stages.

and planking =P

 

[x After Dawn x]

lol chu

 

[Plairnkk]

planking doesnt work at all in melee =D thanks to advance techs <3

platform camping is good but chu is too good at getting around it. i dont lose to other ic, im very good at the matchup, but chu just ***** it SOOO hard lol. i do better w/ my mediocre fox =[

and IC arent even bad on most gay stages. i always win on brinstar, thats about it. lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

I want viiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidsssssssss

Hi plank

 

[Zolios]

M2K's sheik is really really gay.

;[

 

[Plairnkk]

If it's not good enough to beat Mango's puff, it's not gay enough!

 

[KirbyKaze]

M2K is very good at this game but also very dumb sometimes.

 

[x After Dawn x]

planking doesnt work at all in melee =D thanks to advance techs <3

You mean thanks to Falco walking up to you and dairing you and instantly killing you lolol

 

[Strong Badam]

M2K's sheik is really really gay.

;[

yeah, it is.

 

[unknown522]

M2K's characters are gay in general.

He needs to step up his fox though.

 

[Jihnsius]

Roy has the tomahawk combo (short hop to forward smash) and teh phire. Infinite priority over everyone.

 

[unknown522]

lol, roy has a roll of paper instead of a sword

 

[unknown522]

bump. I'm curious to hear what people have to say about peach matchups.

 

[idea]

kk posting

peach is evil

that is all

 

[TheManaLord]

peach falcon is pretty even if anything IMO falcons 55-45 or dead even 50-50 srsly just run away from peach it mad easy the whole time jump over her you can run the clock on even YS lol she cant get at ya HOLLA

 

[Afro_Chris]

well if u camp peach its pretty much even, or if u play on other stages besides FD cuz of peachs ****ing cg,

also manalord wat happened to our MM?

 

[victra♥]

So much peach hate.

=<

 

[Blatt Blvd]

If fox/peach is 60-40, than fox/samus is not 60/40

 

[lordvaati]

wow. I was right. Mario(and apparently Luigi) are the most balanced in the game, with an even 11 good and bad matchups.

though personally I see Luigi vs. Mario being 55-45 Luigi, since his aerials are just brutal on Mario, and he's so **** floaty.but that's just me.

 

[Strong Badam]

I do not understand how Falco has no bad match-ups. What the ****?

 

[SonuvaBeach]

I do not understand how Falco has no bad match-ups. What the ****?

I thought that too. Then I realized that well, it's true. He has the ability to control matches so well. Who in your opinion has an advantage on him?

When I think about a perfect falco - great lasering and spacing so he virtually can't get grabbed - I don't think anyone does. Marth combo's well from grabs, and if he can't get those then Falco has the advantage. Fox and Sheik don't have an advantage. Falco combo's Fox easier than Fox him and Sheik is forced to the air due to lasers. This leaves peach and puff. Both of which I'd say are even, because again their options are limited due to lasers. I think the chart has it right.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Falco doesn't really have any bad matchups

But against tourney viable chars, he really doesn't have any great matchups, usually just even matchups or having a SLIGHT advantage

Edit: I suppose Jiggs is Falco's worst matchup. Ask any good Falco player and they'll tell you Jiggs has the slight advantage and to switch to Fox

 

[unknown522]

Falco doesn't really have any bad matchups

But against tourney viable chars, he really doesn't have any great matchups, usually just even matchups or having a SLIGHT advantage

I've been saying the same thing.

Edit: I suppose Jiggs is Falco's worst matchup. Ask any good Falco player and they'll tell you Jiggs has the slight advantage and to switch to Fox

I agree with this. The same thing with falco v fox can be applied too though. Jman is the only good fox main (I don't consider myself or Raynex to be on that level, until we prove it in an American tourney) that actually goes fox vs falco in tourney. Everyone else uses a secondary, or does the falco ditto.

 

[idea]

**** falco players never go falco on me <_<

 

[Divinokage]

uhh doesn't Marth have advantage over Falco?

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

I've been saying the same thing.

I agree with this. The same thing with falco v fox can be applied too though. Jman is the only good fox main (I don't consider myself or Raynex to be on that level, until we prove it in an American tourney) that actually goes fox vs falco in tourney. Everyone else uses a secondary, or does the falco ditto.

I actually think Falco is one of Jigg's worst matchups. Falco can control the majority of the match, and if the Falco is careful and doesn't get gimped he's fine.

And I personally hate Falco vs Fox as Falco. I feel like the instant I'm forced to tech I'm just stuck for like a minute, that might just be me though.

And Marth for sure has at least a slight advantage on Falco. Chaingrabs =/

 

[x After Dawn x]

Falco's even with Fox, I think

The matchup seems even cause Falco's laser halts Fox's approach, but as with any other matchup, Falco has great stage control and then he gets gimped and the match is even. I know a lot of people feel like they'd rather go Falco in the matchup, but to be honest, in high level play the matchup is just really even cause Fox has so many good options against Falco.

To be honest, I think the matchup is completely even but it differs depending on the stage that's being played. In terms of neutrals, Fox is going to have a slight lead on FD and YS, but Falco is going to have a slight lead on BF, FoD and DL. Pokemon Stadium is kinda iffy, I know that it's one of Fox's best stages but Falco does really well on it because there isn't a third platform for Fox to avoid his lasers and it's really long and wide so his lasers do well, yet there's some platforms to allow him to escape the cg and upthrow > upair.

If you ask Mango or Jman or Shiz, they will tell you the same thing about the matchup, it's even. If not, it's defs 55-45 for Falco. (edit: and I guessa Zhu agrees with the matchup being even?)

P.S. I think somebody brought this up so I'll bring it back up...Falco vs Marth and Fox vs Marth is even when you have full knowledge and experience in the matchup. Otherwise, some problems can arise that can lead people into believing there's an advantage for one of the chars. For example, if you have little experience vs Falco, your Marth may not be able to get grabs in and you may not know that sweetspotting the ledge is necessarily, or you get owned by lasers too much, etc. To be honest, I could see the matchup being about 55-45 for Marth vs Falco due to stages but that's about it, I wouldn't say 60-40, especially for Fox vs Marth.

P.P.S. Zhu, you live in Irvine? I was just there yesterday, I'm on vacation, we should've smashed! </3

 

[Divinokage]

I actually think Falco is one of Jigg's worst matchups. Falco can control the majority of the match, and if the Falco is careful and doesn't get gimped he's fine.

And I personally hate Falco vs Fox as Falco. I feel like the instant I'm forced to tech I'm just stuck for like a minute, that might just be me though.

And Marth for sure has at least a slight advantage on Falco. Chaingrabs =/

Really? And yet you went Fox vs Hungrybox? Even Shiz went Fox vs Hbox... That either means you both are scared of Falco vs Jiggs.. or Falco vs Jiggs is clearly in Jiggs favor. Why didn't either of you try Falco?

 

[x After Dawn x]

Jiggs definitely has the edge in the matchup. I always see Falco players switch to Fox vs Puff, always. Falco vs Jiggs is really gay. =/

 

[Divinokage]

Jiggs definitely has the edge in the matchup. I always see Falco players switch to Fox vs Puff, always. Falco vs Jiggs is really gay. =/

They should go Ganon. =P

I'd love to see spacies main try out Ganon honestly lol.

 

[x After Dawn x]

lol I think it would be a mess. =P

But Marth players can transition pretty well to Ganon, from what I've seen, mainly cause both characters require good spacing. Only it's a bit tougher with Ganon cause Marth has a sword and Ganon has his fist XD

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

Really? And yet you went Fox vs Hungrybox? Even Shiz went Fox vs Hbox... That either means you both are scared of Falco vs Jiggs.. or Falco vs Jiggs is clearly in Jiggs favor. Why didn't either of you try Falco?

I said one of the worst. I like Fox a lot better because he has an easier time killing Jiggs. Mango told me he hates fighting Falco more than Fox because he's on lockdown about 90% of the time, but that could just be Mango.

They should go Ganon. =P

I'd love to see spacies main try out Ganon honestly lol.

Wow I'd hate playing Ganon **** LOL.

 

[unknown522]

uhh doesn't Marth have advantage over Falco?

I personally think so.

I was talking to M2K and Cactuar about it on AIM (wish I could've saved the convos, but I was at KK's house at the time). M2K told me how he used to think it was in marth's favor, but people are starting to realize how amazing the laser really is. They both say that it's probably even because marth has CG, good combos and an amazing gimping game on falco. He can counter into an easy gimp, if falco is close to the ledge and he can also tech chase the hell out of falco even if he misses a combo. He can also powershield into grab if he's up close to a lasering falco. He can also mess up some falco's pillaring with lightshielding in moderation.

They also said that good falco players won't get gimped because they will just laser you on the other side of the stage. He can also disrupt marth when he goes into the air and then get a few hits in. Falco should always be able to hit marth more than he hits falco. Marth can kill falco easily out of 1 or 2 combos. He can also easily edgeguard marth in turn, between lasers, ledge invinciblity, and lighshield hog.

I actually think Falco is one of Jigg's worst matchups. Falco can control the majority of the match, and if the Falco is careful and doesn't get gimped he's fine.
And I personally hate Falco vs Fox as Falco. I feel like the instant I'm forced to tech I'm just stuck for like a minute, that might just be me though.

And Marth for sure has at least a slight advantage on Falco. Chaingrabs =/

It's understandable to hate fox vs falco as either character. I secondary falco (I'm not good with him yet mind you), but I hate fighting fox as falco. I think I like it more than the fox ditto though. I also like being falco vs marth, rather than using fox vs marth. The lasers are awesome, even on FD.

I have been told that by a lot of players and I used to think that falco had the advantage vs puff. Maybe he does.

Honestly, I don't think falco has any matchups worse than 45-55 against him. Any matchup is definitely do-able with him.

Zhu, what do you think of sheik vs falco? And ganon vs falco?