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Melee Match-Up Chart (NTSC) [Update 008 - 09.09.28]

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
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this matchup isnt as impossible for pichu as many other characters he has to play... but i agree with unknown, dont get confused with pichu not being utterly destroyed, with him being a 70-30 falco. basically what was said already, its a 15-85 at best for pichu, most likely 10-90
10-90? Nah. Most players just don't pick up and play Pichu because he's such a ****ty character lol. But if anybody actually picked him up and played / practiced with him seriously as if it was their tournament main, then I think you guys would see he's not THAT bad in this matchup. I'm willing to say it's about 15-85, maybe even 20-80 because of his grab options and uair. He's bad, but I think this matchup isn't all that bad for him compared to his other matchups like Sheik or Marth.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
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keep in mind that this is assuming both players know the match-up well and are playing to win. falco's lasers almost completely shut down nearly all of his approach options and falco is also the 2nd hardest character to grab.

edit: i also like the whole "look guys, KDJ got 2 stocked by a random!" thing even though KDJ 4-stocked Jello's Falco w/ Pichu in another match.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
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edit: i also like the whole "look guys, KDJ got 2 stocked by a random!" thing even though KDJ 4-stocked Jello's Falco w/ Pichu in another match.
what i wanted to show with that, is that a legend with a character he played often (i remember he was taking MMs with it at the MLGs) lost to a random that spammed moves blindly. the only grabs or combo starts happened when kdj decided to punish the predictability.
 

everlasting yayuhzz

Smash Champion
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swaggin' to da maxxx
what i wanted to show with that, is that a legend with a character he played often (i remember he was taking MMs with it at the MLGs) lost to a random that spammed moves blindly. the only grabs or combo starts happened when kdj decided to punish the predictability.
AKA he lost until he stopped sandbagging. Doesn't really matter if they're not trying. lol
 

Pi

Smash Hero
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Thought we were ranking players of equal skill level? Lol.

I still like the question, does anyone think that Shiz/Zhu/Mango's falco will ever lose to a pichu? Even a game?

I think people are forgetting, that the rankings here aren't based on how many stocks or how much % a match finishes with, it's who wins the match. So what if pichu doesn't get JV5'd every match, he's not winning the **** match.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
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Spiral Mountain
KDJ vs random is not a good measure of Pichu's matchups.

These are my thoughts. Go forth and correct me.

I think it's probably easier than Sheik and Marth but not by much. Quite honestly I think it's Pichu's third worst matchup for a variety of reasons. I've seen it done a lot but not recently. And it was never two good people. Fox is (IMO) easier for Pichu.

I don't know numbers. I think it's really, really hard though. Possibly winnable at high level, but you'd have to be disproportionately better than the Falco to do it. I think it is impossible at top level, but that's M2K / Mango / Armada / Shiz territory.

====

Laser is good against Pichu. If he's airborne it's free damage, if he's grounded you can approach or make him get away from the ledge if he's camping there.

Powershielding is not a great solution. Pichu can't really powershield to grab (or anything) because of his atrocious range. It additionally doesn't disrupt Falco very much because he can aim the lasers differently so he doesn't get hit by reflected lasers (see Lambchops).

Falco pressure is largely unpunishable by him so long as you stay spaced and in front of him. Don't go above him.

Pichu's moves don't ever win except Uair directly below him. Or Falco spaces terribly and Pichu gets WD back F-smash or something incredibly dumb.

Pichu can't grab Falco. And when he does, his combos will still not be as good as Falco's unless he's at the edge, FD (I don't know if Pichu can cg him but he can't get down from Uair so I guess that's okay), or perfect.

Falco is fat and can therefore crouch cancel Pichu Nairs to be not knocked over until about 70ish (possibly higher) and for a large portion of that range he can CC Shine (and other moves, depending on spacing and stuff). Pichu can space to go behind him and stuff, but that means you have to get closer to him when you start your Nair or not fast fall, which have other problems.

Fair --> move with Pichu does not work on crouch cancel (or in general). People don't know this for some reason and get away with it an assload, but it doesn't work.

Normally you can counter defensive crouch cancel spam by spacing a ranged move, a projectile, grabbing, or a mix. Pichu can't do the grab or ranged move and his projectile sucks, especially against Falco.

Pichu's horrible tech rolls also make for very easy KOs on Falco's behalf. Dair --> Dair and then tech chase with <insert move>. Pichu's tech in place has 24/26 frames of invincibility instead of the normal 20/26, which is good, but that's pretty moot because Falco's moves last for a long time, so there's a lot of room for error to hit him out of it.

To his credit, Pichu's Uair beats Falco's everything coming from below. If he can maximize his chances to abuse that, he can probably get some stocks. Having said that, I'm not sure how he'd go about doing it.

His recovery is also better.
 

TLMSheikant

Smash Master
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The Young Link matchups are wrong O_o. For example Yoshi ***** Young Link its an almost impossible matchup. He has a slight advantage against Jiggs and peach. Gets ***** by fox/falco/sheik but not 90-10. He goes 60-40/65-35 at worst against Marth. Goes even with Doc, has an advantage over mario and samus. Goes 55-45 YL against Link. ugh, its late im tired. >_> Ill post more when i remember stuffz.
 

SonuvaBeach

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
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Howell, MI
The Young Link matchups are wrong O_o. For example Yoshi ***** Young Link its an almost impossible matchup. He has a slight advantage against Jiggs and peach. Gets ***** by fox/falco/sheik but not 90-10. He goes 60-40/65-35 at worst against Marth. Goes even with Doc, has an advantage over mario and samus. Goes 55-45 YL against Link. ugh, its late im tired. >_> Ill post more when i remember stuffz.
I have a hard time believing that he goes even with Jiggs and Peach. Or that the Marth matchup isn't that bad. My only logic behind this though is that if he did, there would probably be more YL players, or at least alts..or something.

But I know little about Young Link, definitely post up your reasoning when you get a chance.
 

4% APR

Smash Champion
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From my experience as a jiggs player, the couple young links i have played gave me a pretty hard time. i might not call it even, but i think it's decently close
 

idea

Smash Master
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i don't have much experience vs. young link, but i have a hunch that that matchup is similar to the low-tier ones. jigglypuff not being able to combo them and some of them having projectiles makes those matchups seem somewhat close. then you realize you've been using moves that aren't bair.

also edgeguarding. young link has a few options to recover, but they're kind of straightforward and not too fast. they would work sometimes against me, but not against the top-level jigglypuff we are imagining =P

oh, and you can falling upair/uptilt rest him. though he has some okay punishes if you miss.

on the ylink side...projectiles, priority, good movement. his upair and fair would be good at keeping jiggs away, and jump back + large potential range for boomerang.

the only real experience i have with this matchup is when i played vanz's ylink in a friendly =P and it felt about even. not that that's a good indicator.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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doesn't pichu's uair do like 2%
60x uair => nair combo is death
Not sure if you're being serious, but wouldn't platforms majorly screw with this?

hey guys what do you feel about ROY vs TOP TIERS on FD?
I don't see what would make it good against Falco, Marth, or Sheik.

Sheik maybe it would help slightly because she can't approach very well against his crouch cancel without a platform but she won't do that anyways, she's just going to camp and look for ways to get dumb grabs, and her chain grab becomes gayer.

Marth doesn't need platforms to combo Roy so I don't see how their absence would affect him against Roy much.

Falco ***** on FD.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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I remember when I think ICG or whatever posted saying U-throw Fair was an inescapable chain grab in the Pichu boards and you could lead into it with Fair almost guaranteed.

Good times, good times.
 

DrewB008

Smash Lord
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fd helps roy vs sheik and probably falco too

sheik you get an fsmash whenever you edgehog her recovery, any other level they just go to a platform and your aerials only do 4% (apr(pun))

falco is great everywhere but on fd you can cg and dtilt uair fsmash him and stuff, if a falco jumps on a platform you pretty much have to jump at him and do an aerial if you want to hit him, and roy's aerials are only good for swatting away approaches and rarely comboing into fsmash (fair) and comboing fastfallers (uair). sometimes you can do nair if nothing else will hit, or dtilt dair dtilt combos if youre sethlon

roy is noticeably better vs fox than other top tiers, samus peach falco are probably his worst matchups
 

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
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nah jman

but ill be at smym

edit for content:
from my limited roy experience I think platforms only help roy VS peach, i've been able to do dtilt fair, land on plat dtilt nair. maybe peach has some stupid platform ttrix though
 

DrewB008

Smash Lord
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roy can do plat combos to lots of floaties, but im not sure who theyre worth it against and who they arent

i really havent played roy too much, but i've played against roy a ton with lots of different characters
 

unknown522

Some guy
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Aug 17, 2005
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Toronto, Ontario
^^ that doesn't work.

Anyways. Roy is bad vs fox. Though the other top tiers do better. Fox's incredible speed really overwhelms roy and his crappy sword. The only things roy has are a CG, 2 hit combos from a throw / d-tilt, and edgeguarding firefox with counter. Problem is that fox's speed and combo ability **** roy. Most of roy's moves are either slow, ground-based, or weak as hell. He has no good launchers other than d-tilt and his throw at mid percents. Once fox hits a high percent, it's a ***** to kill him. It's the same problem that marth sort of has, but it's way worse because it's roy.

oh yeah, and CCing ***** roy in general.
 

Europhoria

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
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Toronto, Ontario
We're seriously talking about how to beat Roy? Point your grey stick down and when he hits you with anything but forward or down smash click the a-button and you WIN.

It almost doesn't matter which character you use this strategy with.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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Spiral Mountain
My character's existence is good against Roy.

I don't mean that in the sense that I might be good against Roy but rather my character has such gay things on Roy that it actually deters people from playing him entirely.

Like most low tiers.

<3 Sheik
 
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