Match Up Discussion: Meta Knight ~

[Mighty_mo76]

Feels sticky in here...

 

[S1NN]

one thing im kinda nooby ill add but I've noticed when playing Mk's there moves are almost all easily down B'd just a thought

 

[OmegaXF]

I've only been maining marth for two weaks, so what do I know about his worse match ups?

You can still win in the air though.

If its only been 2 weeks for you. That means that you have the least amount of exp. for Marthvs.MK right? If thats the case you should really just soak up the info you see in this thread.

 

[Ulevo]

This thread may or may not have to be revised, depending upon how bad and whether or not Meta Knights Demensional Cape becomes banned.

As it stands now, MK is theoretically able to use his cape and go into hiding for an unlimited amount of time. People are claiming this to be too difficult to do, but I myself after less than 10 minutes of practice was able to go across Eldin Bridge with it while invisible the time entire. Even if the stalling aspect is banned and it's allowed in small increments, this move gives MK a whole new approach.

We shall see.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

I would hope it would be banned in tournies, but it still will be annoying in wi-fi/friendlies.

 

[Marth & Ike]

I've read pretty much all I can regarding this match-up, and there generally seems to be two different consensus - either it is 5/5, or 6/4 (Metaknight favored).

So which is it? Emblem Lord, in recent posts, seems to indicate 6/4. Is that what it stands at as of right now?

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

It is generally considered 6/4 MK, because MK's dtilt outranges Marths. If MK uses that infinite thing though, that would really change the match-up.

 

[Marth & Ike]

It is generally considered 6/4 MK, because MK's dtilt outranges Marths. If MK uses that infinite thing though, that would really change the match-up.

I'm going to guess the infinite gets banned as a stalling technique.

I can agree with 6/4, that d-tilt is obnoxious. It's still a winnable fight, however.

Right now it looks as if MK and Snake are the only two with advantages against Marth, correct?

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Yeah just about.

 

[Mighty_mo76]

Hmm. 6/4? sounds about right.

Eh, I don't know about that TKD. Yes, Snake and MK, but I'm also feeling DDD.

M2K's DDD just kinda rubs me the wrong way when I see it. I'm thinking DDD may pose a possible threat.

 

[Pierce7d]

Eh, my best friend mains D3. His grab is ********, but once you get him off the edge, you can really mess with his recovery. On the stage, he outspaces you, and due to his awesome grab range and ******** ftilt range, you HAVE to mindgame in an opening or punish. Retreating shields to pressure the shield, and then Dancing Blades are the most effective I find, but it's not like D3 can't react to this. Furthermore, Waddles punish short hop approaches. I've gotten pretty good at fighting D3, but when I have no problems winning matches against any of his other characters, and he places well @ tournaments, it says something to me.

Ironically, I have no difficulty fighting other D3s, and he never loses to other Marths lol.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

If that stalling thing gets banned, it will be 6/4 or even 5/5 maybe, both of these are winnable fights, but MK is a good character who gives Marth trouble so we just have to keep adding on to this thread to help everyone beat him.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

But we still need the index stickied. =/ Without the stalling, Snake is the better character and is considered the harder match-up.

 

[AllGoodNamesAreTaken]

Eh, I wish I can help find ways on countering MK.

My Brawl disk was stolen although I will try and help as soon as I buy a new one. d-(^^)z

 

[TheX0913]

arrite. reading through this amazing thread. I have one question to ask. what the hell were the creators of this game thinking when they let meta knight become this strong?!

 

[kouryuuXfighter]

Ignore this post.

 

[e__]

Can someone post the frame data for meta and marth's movesets? It'll be easier to tell exactly which moves are "faster" if we have the information on the frames they come out on.

 

[Jibbles]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185726
M2k's Meta Knight frame data.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Assume that MK is about 3 to 4 frames faster on everything other then F-smash.

 

[e__]

o.o

2 frames for uair? That's almost unbelievable.

EL, I was talking in a sense so that we could compare each move for different situations. I know MKs going to win if we both use the same moves, but say i use fair and he uses bair. IIRC Marth's fair comes out on frame 4, but according to M2K Meta's bair comes out on frame 7, so Marth could come out on top easier in that situation. However, if it was our fair vs his nair, it'll be a lot easier for him to hit us first with the 4 frame difference.

 

[Steel]

Re-discuss metaghey please.

 

[Steel]

Are there any viable approaches?

Should we still resort to "camping" him?

Should the ratio be different?

etc

 

[Zankoku]

Hit him with your tipper for early KOs.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I don't think much has really changed on this one guys. MK's game hasn't really evolved at all. He has had one of the most stagnant metagames overall. Other then the infinite cape which was banned anyway, so it made no impact.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Well, there's the "m2k" combo now, which does ~40% as I heard...

Glide attack -> SHFF Nair -> Ftilt

...

I dunno how much impact it has on the match-up though.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Pretty much none because you shouldn't be hitting Marth with a glide attack.

 

[feardragon64]

^^Pretty much none because you shouldn't be hitting Marth with a glide attack.

MK's glide attack has more range than any moves Marth can't hit him with out of glide attack. It also is safe on block when fully spaced and he can't be shield grabbed from it. Only reason Marth shouldn't be getting hit by it is because he shouldn't be going after MK while he's gliding.

The fact is nothing is going to change in a drastic sense. There aren't going to be any huge breakthroughs. Even if we found some sort of semi-safe approach in this match-up, Marth would still be disadvantaged because that approach would be really predictable, and it's ridiculous to rely on one approach. I'm not saying it wouldn't hurt to have one safe approach, but it's not going change the odds drastically.

I'm alright with 60:40 MK. Marth surely doesn't have an advantage, but MK's advantage doesn't extend past that. He only barely contends with the range of Marth's attacks so assuming perfect spacing with both, Marth still has a good chance because of his mobility. Also, dolphin slash has proven to be a somewhat reliable kill move, partially due to MK's weight. I don't want to go repeating arguments from the thread, but honestly, I think 60:40 is fine.

And ya, camping is probably the best option.

 

[Remzi]

I think 65:35 is where this matchup should be at. I'll give reasons later

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I say play campy, fastfall all your aerials, and don't fullhop or he'll Uair the crap out of you and then tornado.

 

[Pierce7d]

Eh . . . Marth's Fsmash outranges glide attack. Just saying.

 

[Nibbity]

yeah, I can see an accidental fullhop getting punished easily. Normally I shut down to all defensive play and just try to get a good level like Delfino so I won't get gimped easily. *shudder*

 

[Steel]

Guys meta is so **** stupid.

How do you feel about 65:35? If you disagree you haven't played a good meta, sry sry sradsfjkasdsjfjl24j32metaghey

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hahaha.

65/35 sounds good.

Can't ignore the data. When MK's of lesser skill are beating Marth's that are better all across the country it's time to re-think the match-up.

Nothing really new to add to the match-up. But Steel, NEO and I think that 65/35 is far more accurate.

 

[Steel]

start training those snakes people, might as well cp

 

[chaos_]

neo made it like the matchup was even

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I've been using GnW recently, I think he'll be my MK counter from now on, or at least vs. ones I can't beat with Marth. So Steel, EL, do you guys think GnW is a good counter to Meta?

 

[Shaya]

As much as I hang on to the idea that it's "not too bad" at 60:40, it just isn't realistic.

When I main Marth and he's practically 90% of my playing, and my lulz snake does a ****ton better against said MKs I just don't have enough faith anymore.

I don't think MK has any worser matchups than 60:40. Marth being 65:35 is pretty good compared to what the rest of the cast should be.

I beat Scrubby MKs because they're nothing but scrubs, and I'm definitely feared as a Marth main - but the tournament winners are MKs, who are generally unable to beat me with any other character but MK...

 

[Steel]

no

use meta or snake

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

no

use meta or snake

If you are replting to me Steel (which I think you are) then why not?

 

[Steel]

yes i am.

because why? marth already beats GW 60:40, meta being a much better character would **** him even harder.