Match-Up Discussion ~ Final Week Ganon/Falcon/Link >__>

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Dehf, not to be offensive to those players, but you're still a better player then those people are. You should take like 10 points from falco and put them in their favor

 

[J4pu]

DEHF is amazing at brawl
...but he's really bad at theory craft

 

[Vlade]

Kismet also agrees that Kirby vs Falco is even

I'm inclined to say 55:45 Kirby's favour, which is close to even if anything

 

[TheReflexWonder]

okay... so G&W falco is in falco favor I've beaten UTDZac, the best G&W player in the US, twice and kirby is in falco's favor as well since I've beaten MogX, the best kirby player in the west coast, more often than he has beaten me

And I'm really Reaaally REAAAAALLLY good

What a champion.

I agree with you. Falco does have the advantage, easily.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Kismet also agrees that Kirby vs Falco is even

I'm inclined to say 55:45 Kirby's favour, which is close to even if anything

I never bought into Kirby having the advantage over Falco. Kirby mains were just a ton more argumentative and cared a lot more so I was just like, "chillax bros. Have your 5 points and leave me alone kay?"

 

[__Gold__]

AWESOME! i like this thread

 

[Gmoney_]

okay... so G&W falco is in falco favor I've beaten UTDZac, the best G&W player in the US, twice and kirby is in falco's favor as well since I've beaten MogX, the best kirby player in the west coast, more often than he has beaten me

And I'm really Reaaally REAAAAALLLY good

Could you give us fellow falco's some arguments about why you think the kirby MU is in our MU ^^?? The netherlands don't have really good kirbys and the one i play most of the time goes almost even (i prolly win a lil more) with me, while kirby ain't his main (get scared now Xonar xD). So a lil explanation is apreciated

 

[DMG]

I do honestly think Falco either beats or goes even with G&W. I've looked at that matchup and even played it out a bit and it looks frustrating when Falco plays it the best he can.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Falco beats both G&W and Kirby at least 55/45

 

[DEHF]

falco can give kirby a really difficult time approaching and because of his jab and ftilt out range everything kirby can do on the ground. If kirby approaching in the air makes it even easier to fight since bair destroys his air game.

Kirby can't sweet spot the ledge with his up b which sets up perfect for a dair edge guard. If kirby smash DIs towards the stage when you spike, simply follow his roll with an f smash.

if kirby is juggling you from above long canceling the side B will make for safe get away options.

The only big thing kirby has on falco is his capability to really well with his f smash, but can be very avoidable if you play hit and run at higher %s.

Falco can chaingrab kirby as well I think 3 or 4 times to a dair which if done offstage can allow you to rack up more damage or even get the kill.

I also forget to mention that vs. G&W if falco can time a spot dodge correctly during G&W's attack he'll be able punish them with at least a jab and some with a move as slow as d tilt

 

[Gmoney_]

falco can give kirby a really difficult time approaching and because of his jab and ftilt out range everything kirby can do on the ground. If kirby approaching in the air makes it even easier to fight since bair destroys his air game.

Kirby can't sweet spot the ledge with his up b which sets up perfect for a dair edge guard. If kirby smash DIs towards the stage when you spike, simply follow his roll with an f smash.

if kirby is juggling you from above long canceling the side B will make for safe get away options.

The only big thing kirby has on falco is his capability to really well with his f smash, but can be very avoidable if you play hit and run at higher %s.

Falco can chaingrab kirby as well I think 3 or 4 times to a dair which if done offstage can allow you to rack up more damage or even get the kill.

I also forget to mention that vs. G&W if falco can time a spot dodge correctly during G&W's attack he'll be able punish them with at least a jab and some with a move as slow as d tilt

Kirby has a good grab game on us right ? If not, i'll need to learn the MU better be4 i encounter a pro kirby xD

 

[DEHF]

if You're talking about his grab combos at low % then no, you can smash DI out of it.

 

[Gmoney_]

if You're talking about his grab combos at low % then no, you can smash DI out of it.

Wasn't talking about those no . To be more specific I do get grabbed a lot against the other player. Just wanted to know if this is kinda "normal" in the MU, or that it's a more personal thing (me playing careless).

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

I do honestly think Falco either beats or goes even with G&W. I've looked at that matchup and even played it out a bit and it looks frustrating when Falco plays it the best he can.

But do we have a record of Falco beating top Kirbys and G&Ws other than Larry though?

I think Big Bird has that potential, but a single player pulling off such achievements isn't enough to suddenly fix the matchup to our advantage. Maybe I need to start playing against Kirby and G&W again.

 

[Alphicans]

GaW seems to have enough tools to keep the m/u even. Using sideB to recover against him if he has the ledge can be punished if he uses uair to puff us up, and can follow up with most of his overpowered smashes or bucket if he has one. I think falco can really **** gaw at lower %, but as the game progresses GaW should be able to catch up and since falco will have a hard time killing, GaW can take the lead. When falco is behind a stock in the match-up I think it really starts to show how good GaW can do vs us. We have no more cg, lots of our set-ups are nulled, and killing him is a total *****.

I'd say even for sure just because it's really hard for GaW to take the lead, but if he does it could pose some serious problems.

 

[DEHF]

But do we have a record of Falco beating top Kirbys and G&Ws other than Larry though?

I think Big Bird has that potential, but a single player pulling off such achievements isn't enough to suddenly fix the matchup to our advantage. Maybe I need to start playing against Kirby and G&W again.

SK92 has beaten pretty much everyone I have

 

[Jon?]

Could we talk about the Fox matchup? A friend of mine in the state requested that I ask for matchup help on Falco vs. Fox. I, too, would like better insight to this matchup.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

It's 55:45 Falco cause of the CG but Fox can combo you and reflector to stop lasers. But the CG still ***** him harder than the average character.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Whats should you do from a cg to do the most damage to Fox? and how many grabs can you get on Fox?

 

[clowsui]

he can be cged up to 42, spike only works at 35 and below in my experience but i might not be buffering well enough

you should probably do a gatling at 35 since fox fastfalls and has a hard time getting out of DA

 

[Denzi]

he can be cged up to 42, spike only works at 35 and below in my experience but i might not be buffering well enough

IIRC you have a one frame window for the spike.

 

[__Gold__]

What would you guys do to a marth to beat them?

 

[Alphicans]

Same thing I'd do vs most other characters, except stay in the middle at 0% so I don't get 0-death'd.

 

[__Gold__]

o yeah huh hmmm i should try that
but how about when he trys to get you off the ledge to get you farther so you can die anything i should to counter that?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

DI up and do your best to recover.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

o yeah huh hmmm i should try that
but how about when he trys to get you off the ledge to get you farther so you can die anything i should to counter that?

Ok, I'm a bit confused on what your asking specifically. I get your talking about recovering but what part of recovering? Are you offstage and marth is going offstage to follow you? Is he standing near the ledge of the stage? That sort of stuff. Sorry for my not understanding.

 

[Denzi]

Don't get hit. Seriously, work on timing dodges and shielding and stuff.

 

[__Gold__]

Ok, I'm a bit confused on what your asking specifically. I get your talking about recovering but what part of recovering? Are you offstage and marth is going offstage to follow you? Is he standing near the ledge of the stage? That sort of stuff. Sorry for my not understanding.

its when your offstage and marth chases you offstage you get you with forward air to get you to die is there any other thing i should do so i can prevent this and btw since he only can be chain grabed twice then what should i do after ive chain grab him twice like how should i follow bcuz i can follow with a spike to the stage and shield but is there anything else that would be better?

 

[Gmoney_]

its when your offstage and marth chases you offstage you get you with forward air to get you to die is there any other thing i should do so i can prevent this and btw since he only can be chain grabed twice then what should i do after ive chain grab him twice like how should i follow bcuz i can follow with a spike to the stage and shield but is there anything else that would be better?

It's possible to grab him 3x starting from 0%, but the timing on the last grab is very strict and it has to be a running grab. What I mostly do after a "CG" is to dair him and DI away from him so he can't punish or do a Nair followed by a shine. Although the last one might sound stupid, but it's still more damage than Dair iirc.

 

[DEHF]

whenever marth is running at you he is very punishable, it takes him the longest out of any character to put up his shield while he's in the running animation. If he ever dashes at you'll usually always be able to get a free dash attack up smash on him. You can also edge guard marth with a falling bair while he is trying to sweet spot the ledge with an up b. You can also try for a spike instead of the bair, but I find the bair easier/safer to use.

Falco's jab is faster and/or has more priority than all of fox's moves on the ground. That combined with the chain grab and falco have better edgeguarding capabilities in the match up make it falco's advantage. The match up would be worse than 60-40 if fox didn't have such a great move.

 

[Jon?]

whenever marth is running at you he is very punishable, it takes him the longest out of any character to put up his shield while he's in the running animation. If he ever dashes at you'll usually always be able to get a free dash attack up smash on him. You can also edge guard marth with a falling bair while he is trying to sweet spot the ledge with an up b. You can also try for a spike instead of the bair, but I find the bair easier/safer to use.

Falco's jab is faster and/or has more priority than all of fox's moves on the ground. That combined with the chain grab and falco have better edgeguarding capabilities in the match up make it falco's advantage. The match up would be worse than 60-40 if fox didn't have such a great move.

Don't you risk the chance of being up-B stage spiked by Marth if you try to edge guard with Bair?

What would be your suggestion when Fox is shine-stalling above you? I usually try to get up there and Bair him or just wait for him to land before doing anything.

 

[Bloodcross]

Same thing I'd do vs most other characters, except stay in the middle at 0% so I don't get 0-death'd.

Yo I platform camp like a boss. Dats da tru matchup kits.

 

[DEHF]

Don't you risk the chance of being up-B stage spiked by Marth if you try to edge guard with Bair?

What would be your suggestion when Fox is shine-stalling above you? I usually try to get up there and Bair him or just wait for him to land before doing anything.

yeah it is risky, you have grab the ledge and use invincibility frames to make it safer to do.

If fox is doing that just wait until he's close enough to you that you can land an attack.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Don't get hit.

Invoke the Smash64 advice much Denzi xD

 

[DMG]

Smash 64? Pbt.

That was the Isai advice. My title is never wrong sir.

 

[Denzi]

Smash 64? Pbt.

That was the Isai advice. My title is never wrong sir.

Yes, and I'm pretty sure Isai was the best Smash 64 player out there when he said that.

 

[Alphicans]

Doesn't mean he had helpful advice lol.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

If you focus on not getting hit you'll do worse lol.

 

[__Gold__]

o haha ok then
i should try all that on this coming tourney
but the only help is marth and rob alil
but the marth thing actually helped

 

[Sasha]

Yes, and I'm pretty sure Isai was the best Smash 64 player out there when he said that.

lol @ "was"

On topic: Falco has teh lazors and they destroy peoplez.

Seriously though, I think Falco has the potential to have an advantage over MK.