Please play GOOD wolf players and give me good information before just spouting ratios.
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~Marth's Match Ups~
- Thread starter Pr0phetic
- Start date
- Status
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Does it count if you beat one of the best wolfs with Bowser 
no cus u have caterpillar power obv
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
lmao whatever 
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Naw, I'd say 55:45. Tudios in my area had a pretty good wolf (though he'd have some occasionally intentionally bad habits), and it seemed like this is an accurate number. lagless fair and scarring are pretty nice though, among his other nice game-play tactics.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
God dammit I don't care if it's 90:10 in wolf's favor. Will somebody please say something meaningful about the match-up cause it's one of my worst. =[ Wolf is up there on my "god I hate playing these characters" list. He's right below metaknight, who is right below DDD. lol
Of course meaningful discussion would be in the wolf thread. I was hoping there was some kind of general consensus that I wasn't a part of and people knew what the summary would be like. If not, can we discuss it, i.e can I bump it?
Of course meaningful discussion would be in the wolf thread. I was hoping there was some kind of general consensus that I wasn't a part of and people knew what the summary would be like. If not, can we discuss it, i.e can I bump it?
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Vs Wolf
On stage: This is obvious, but abuse your range advantage and keep him away at all costs. Feel free to be a little conservative with how you pressure because lasers aren't much of a threat. He has great smashes so sure to stay extra safe at high percents. Wolf's bair is good, but ftilt/utilt and fair work great for stopping it. Watch out for his long ranged fsmash, if you are on the ground be ready to shield it, it's easy to punish.
Off Stage: Wolfs hate using up B to recover, grab the ledge and force them to side B onto the stage, then ledgehop> whatever to punish.
On stage: This is obvious, but abuse your range advantage and keep him away at all costs. Feel free to be a little conservative with how you pressure because lasers aren't much of a threat. He has great smashes so sure to stay extra safe at high percents. Wolf's bair is good, but ftilt/utilt and fair work great for stopping it. Watch out for his long ranged fsmash, if you are on the ground be ready to shield it, it's easy to punish.
Off Stage: Wolfs hate using up B to recover, grab the ledge and force them to side B onto the stage, then ledgehop> whatever to punish.
BBoyindo
Smash Ace
If you shield a Fsmash at high % up-b it for the kill. Also use the new CG that was recently discovered. Fthrow2X - Dthrow5X - Fsmash.
Hugging is crucial in this matchup. If you time it right before his up-b (if he is forced to use it) he either dies, or he falls on the stage where you have a free Fair, Nair or Uair.
Random tips are my style lol
Hugging is crucial in this matchup. If you time it right before his up-b (if he is forced to use it) he either dies, or he falls on the stage where you have a free Fair, Nair or Uair.
Random tips are my style lol
BacklashMarth
Smash Lord
^Are you sure that actually works? THis is the fist time ive heard word of it. DI testing seems to be an order.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
lol yeah that does sound kinda faulty
ZHMT
Smash Lord
Wolf should be able to down b out of that.
BanjoKazooiePro
Smash Champion
I didn't like the wolf match up either at first, but I got used to it. Predict an Fsmash from them, it's amazing. Usually they spam Bairs, which can be batted away with a jab. I like to DS OoS, though. It works a lot of the time for me. I abuse DB in this matchup. You have range, use it. Wolf is crippled when he's off the stage, in my opinion. His recover is pretty bad for the most part, especially if you're playing on lylat, which I always pick in this match up. Stage scar is very predictable IMO, and just try to keep him off the ledge. I don't mind this match up near as much as I do D3. -.-
BBoyindo
Smash Ace
I think it works, Shaya tested it a few days ago i think, you can ask him if you doubt it. Idk if Wolf can Down-B out of it though.
Another random tip, inspired by the above post: Lylat's and PS1's ledges mess him up really badly, which reminds me of something...
Another random tip, inspired by the above post: Lylat's and PS1's ledges mess him up really badly, which reminds me of something...
I didn't ever test Wolf to see if it worked.
Fox only.
I started to test Falco and may have stuffed up, but he can only be down thrown to like 23% (so like 3 dthrows).
If Wolf suffers the SAME exact specifications as Fox/Falco does, no down b is going to save him. The combo is complete hit stun that the player cannot DI out of.
Fox only.
I started to test Falco and may have stuffed up, but he can only be down thrown to like 23% (so like 3 dthrows).
If Wolf suffers the SAME exact specifications as Fox/Falco does, no down b is going to save him. The combo is complete hit stun that the player cannot DI out of.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Tell me more about this stuff Shaya
Frames? how manys frames they are stunned etc
Frames? how manys frames they are stunned etc
After 5% or so, when you dthrow Fox, the 'damage' sends him far enough so that he lands on the ground like a couple frames later (than that of 0%) so the complete hit stun of dthrow goes from 43 (Marth can move past frame 34) to 48, 49 he can shield, 50 he can spot dodge.
If Wolf's timing is exactly the same, Wolf would be able to shine frame 49 (with a really hard buffer window, mind you), but with Fox you can get grabs on him from 47-49, so it could still work.
If Wolf's timing is exactly the same, Wolf would be able to shine frame 49 (with a really hard buffer window, mind you), but with Fox you can get grabs on him from 47-49, so it could still work.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
so wait basically after one or two f throws I can down throw cg until 43 on both chars?
and its 100% legit?
and its 100% legit?
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
I did some testing, and I was able to do the full DThrow x5 on Wolf, but it wasn't against someone with good DI. However, I think it works the same or like Falco's.
Notes on the match-up:
- You cannot be effectively camped by Wolf's laser.
- You outrange him.
- He's easy to edgeguard, especially on FD and Lylat Cruise.
- Don't forget the FThrow x2 --> Spike and know we have the new FThrow x2 --> DThrow x3 to x5 --> Tipper Smash Combos on him
I think its 60:40 Marth.
Notes on the match-up:
- You cannot be effectively camped by Wolf's laser.
- You outrange him.
- He's easy to edgeguard, especially on FD and Lylat Cruise.
- Don't forget the FThrow x2 --> Spike and know we have the new FThrow x2 --> DThrow x3 to x5 --> Tipper Smash Combos on him
I think its 60:40 Marth.
BanjoKazooiePro
Smash Champion
So overall, what's the highest amount of damage you can get on each one of them?
wolf's bair = our fair, if not better
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Outrange him? What about that god **** bair. It chains so god **** well, and I think it outranges Marth's fair...
Edit: Steel beat me to it. But ya. Not only that but he falls a lot faster so he can bair camp faster I think.
Edit: Steel beat me to it. But ya. Not only that but he falls a lot faster so he can bair camp faster I think.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
43% - 48% basically. And it puts them in a really horrible position.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Speaking of horrible position, we should also note that fair, fair to dair spike off the ledge is probably preferable...But this is a good alternative if you're not at the ledge.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Whoa same posts. Well maybe because there's not many excellent Wolf players, but jab always seemed to beat out his Bair camping. And grabs **** him. Does anybody play many Wolf's at all? 0.o
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Your Confusing me.... what EXACTLY are you trying to say???
Fthrow 2x -->Dthrow 3x= 5 total throws into a tipper fmash?
Since he didn't play against someone w/ good DI, he's not sure if it is:
Fthrow 2x -->Dthrow 3x into a tipper fmash
or
Fthrow 2x -->Dthrow 4x into a tipper fmash
or
Fthrow 2x -->Dthrow 5x into a tipper fmash
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
O ok gotcha
BBoyindo
Smash Ace
Told ya guys it was real ^^ And wouldn't Ftilt be a good counter against Wolf's Bair, or would it be too slow for that. Jab is fast but it has less range, and Wolf's foot reaches quite far.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Jab is better then FTilt simply because its faster, but FTil could be quite helpful.
wolf can bait either of those, that doesn't work -_-
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
I thought you didn't know anything about the match-up sir Steel... 0.o Well I'm not gonna lie, I have next to NO Wolf practice.
i dont
but you can't camp that **** with jab or ftilt lol, you can't camp anything like that
but you can't camp that **** with jab or ftilt lol, you can't camp anything like that
BacklashMarth
Smash Lord
One of my crewmates mains wolf and i face him regularly. Jab is ok if the wolf is at a certain heigtht (usually the height he gets to when he short hops ). But if wolf does a ffbair then i seem to get popped in the face by it even if i jab. Maybe my reaction time is off but i usually dont rely on jab much after i hit wolf with it a few times (3 times maybe). Fairs work like magic on wolfs if you dont try to cancel out his bair spam with it. Ive been messing around with ducking under attacks recently and i have had some positive results. You can practically do any move out of a crouch which is good when u duck an aerial or something.(DO NOT GET PREDICTABLE WITH YOUR DUCKING THOUGH) Your best bet is to wait for him to approach and try to bair you, then watch where he will land. If he lands close, hes gonna probably gonna use reflector or grab you (i think u can DB him right after the bair to avoid this or just DS). If hes about two character lengths away he will probably smash or shbair again. (grab him if he smashes then follow up with ****) Im gonna face him again today and i will edit this post if i notice something else i missed about the matchup.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Ok here's why you can't camp in my opinion.
Camping in the air(fairs): Wolf bairs you since most Marth's camp fairs in a horribly predictable way.
Camping on the ground(ftilt): Just doing this one because someone mentioned it. Ftilt sucks. It's so laggy. Jab > ftilt.
Camping on the ground(jab): Wolf stands in place and fires lasers. If you camp close to him, he can easily bait it like steel said.
Camping dtilt/jab: laser/bair to the face.
Camping with shieldbreaker(for shaya): Wolf loses.
It's not like Marth has no options. It just seems like Wolf can counter those options. And vice versa. I think that's why it was set to 50:50.
Camping in the air(fairs): Wolf bairs you since most Marth's camp fairs in a horribly predictable way.
Camping on the ground(ftilt): Just doing this one because someone mentioned it. Ftilt sucks. It's so laggy. Jab > ftilt.
Camping on the ground(jab): Wolf stands in place and fires lasers. If you camp close to him, he can easily bait it like steel said.
Camping dtilt/jab: laser/bair to the face.
Camping with shieldbreaker(for shaya): Wolf loses.
It's not like Marth has no options. It just seems like Wolf can counter those options. And vice versa. I think that's why it was set to 50:50.
I think it's 50:50 because both characters shut down each other's approach options. To a point that I'd call it a stale mate.
Due to how lagless Wolf's dsmash and upsmash are on shields (with Upsmash being an acceptable anti-fair move), the only times it's safe to hit him is if they fsmash/ftilt into your shield.
Otherwise you actually have to play in a real time fashion, you have to weave and space in the air to beat his bair (he can do the same to you), you have to space well on the ground and have good timing to oust his aerial approaches (he can do the same to you, but not as effectively). One of the best things Marth can do is use counter to punish scaring, and fsmash a bairing wolf if you have fantastic timing.
55:45 or so if we were to count the early percent grab game **** as important.
ALSO: Rukkiko, DI doesn't matter. During the chaingrabbable percents, your throws ignore DI. All your friend has to do is press shield to air dodge at the right timing (if they've gone past the chaingrabbable percents that can air dodge) or if they land on the ground just hold shield and down to buffer a spot dodge.
Due to how lagless Wolf's dsmash and upsmash are on shields (with Upsmash being an acceptable anti-fair move), the only times it's safe to hit him is if they fsmash/ftilt into your shield.
Otherwise you actually have to play in a real time fashion, you have to weave and space in the air to beat his bair (he can do the same to you), you have to space well on the ground and have good timing to oust his aerial approaches (he can do the same to you, but not as effectively). One of the best things Marth can do is use counter to punish scaring, and fsmash a bairing wolf if you have fantastic timing.
55:45 or so if we were to count the early percent grab game **** as important.
ALSO: Rukkiko, DI doesn't matter. During the chaingrabbable percents, your throws ignore DI. All your friend has to do is press shield to air dodge at the right timing (if they've gone past the chaingrabbable percents that can air dodge) or if they land on the ground just hold shield and down to buffer a spot dodge.
stealth3654
Smash Lord
Hey, the Sheik boards are currently discussing the Marth match-up here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226389&page=9.
Any contributions will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Any contributions will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
.
smashkng
Smash Lord
Marth can grab release into a tipper dair on Meta Knight!
link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLMPxu1T_VA
link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLMPxu1T_VA
BacklashMarth
Smash Lord
SHHHH! Keep that on the DL. We need every ace in the hole we can get.
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
Of the very few tourneys I went too I have never played a wolf who knows what he is doing.
Is he really that bad? Even?
Is he really that bad? Even?
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