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Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

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_SSnakeKen

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New Grab for crouching Jigglypuffs .

a boost grab is a not so well known way to grab people. It's basically a running grab, except with a very sudden boost forward right before the grab comes out.

Do perform this, start a dash attack and immediately hit R or L. You will fly forward and do a running grab.

I think we should look into this method of grabbing and see how useful it is. While you do get the running grab lag afterwards, you go forward so fast the opponent can't predict it very well.

the primary traction while running also the grab range while moving forward can grab chracters like kirby and jigglypuff while crouching
 

Emblem Lord

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You could just do a regular none JC grab. Marth slides plenty far without boost grabbing.
 

Dark Sonic

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That boost grab you're talking about is actually called dash attack cancel grabbing. It's most usefull for characters that lunge foward during their dash attack (like Shiek).
 

knightpraetor

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two questions...
1. can marth spotdodge an opponents shieldgrab after his dair or is there too much lag?

2. Can Full jump fastfalling to grab be a useful strategy? i mean empty short hops work well....it's just that they tend to just grab you as you're coming down instead of waiting..i guess that means i just need to do a very late dair instead then...so that their shieldgrab begins just in time to get aerialled...still..i'm also wondering why it is that sh fastfalls to grab work...i mean i know it does..but shouldn't a shield grabber logically be watching the opponent's feet and then grabbing as they land? rather than waiting for an attack
 

ArcNatural

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two questions...
1. can marth spotdodge an opponents shieldgrab after his dair or is there too much lag?

2. Can Full jump fastfalling to grab be a useful strategy? i mean empty short hops work well....it's just that they tend to just grab you as you're coming down instead of waiting..i guess that means i just need to do a very late dair instead then...so that their shieldgrab begins just in time to get aerialled...still..i'm also wondering why it is that sh fastfalls to grab work...i mean i know it does..but shouldn't a shield grabber logically be watching the opponent's feet and then grabbing as they land? rather than waiting for an attack
1. Depends on where you hit with the dair and if you l-cancel, and how fast your opponent can grab. Also depends on if they CC'd it. If they cc'd it at low percents I don't think you can avoid the grab. Other than that it's always situational. Your better off trying to DI behind them to prevent any grab attempts from a sh dair. You can spotdodge, but again it's very situational when you can.

2. You can't just spam empty shffls to grab. You spam everything else first. It works because it is unexpected. Fulljumps will not work because anyone decent will just jump out of shield and hit you as Marth's weak point is below him. You sh a well spaced (or poorly spaced) fair enough times in a match and they are not going to expect you to just sh in front of them. Just like if you l-canceled a shffl fair properly you can even empty shff to dash behind them before they can grab you (provided they tried to grab you after they expected to get hit). As for watching when they land, I think you have to expect them to empty shffl do be able to do anything about it.

The risk of trying to shieldgrab early so that you catch them as they are landing can risk the chance of being hit by a late fair (which is what you should do if they start picking up on it). So most likely they will shield the whole time your in the air, and with I think 5 frames of landing lag vs 7 frames being the fastest grab you have the 2 frame advantage to at least get out of the way. Muscle Reaction > Logic unfortunately. So as long as you use it effectively and stay spaced (even for empty shffs) this can net you some opportunities.

NOTHING is the end all works all the time technique. You have to constantly change your tactics (in effect be unpredictable) to beat really good players.
 

ArcNatural

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how do you cc from sheild? i know i've seen this done
This is news to me, how could you CC in shield? If you press down too much you will spotdodge, and if you slightly press down you will move your shield down a little bit. I guess you could somehow CC a attack the shieldstabs. Only other thing I can think of is if someone wavedashes out of shield and CCs during the wavedash.
 

Retroking2000

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you can do it but you have to press down the timing is really sensitive just think of it as a short hop but downwards .

also you cant CC during shield lag , you have to be crouching before hand , dispite of that it adds mindgame quality

EDIT : you have to slightly release the shield while pressing down
 

ArcNatural

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you can do it but you have to press down the timing is really sensitive just think of it as a short hop but downwards .

also you cant CC during shield lag , you have to be crouching before hand , dispite of that it adds mindgame quality

EDIT : you have to slightly release the shield while pressing down
So are you getting hit? Or are you lightshielding? I don't see how cc in shield is usefull unless you plan on getting hit. What exactly is happening?
 

knightpraetor

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it's for punishing shield pressure arc..like when sheik or someone else starts jabbing too much... it has a lot of advantages over trying to guess the # of jabs i think..but still it's rather annoying cause if you mess it up and are in shield lag as the first jab hits you end up DIing down on hits that raise you up thereby taking extra jab damage (make sure you notice of course that your cc failed..otherwise you'll just keep taking jabs forever while trying to CC impossibly)...by the time you DI away usually they are ready for it too.
 

Inkslinger

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yes, there are vids of marth cc from shield (foward vs m2k i think), this helps against sheiks that pressure sheilds because you can cc their jabs into grabs, with will otherwise get you stuck in the sheild.
 

Aesir

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So are you getting hit? Or are you lightshielding? I don't see how cc in shield is usefull unless you plan on getting hit. What exactly is happening?
Thats the usefulness of it you're covering your bases. >_>


example:
Hold down and toward a sheik coming down with a fair. sheiks will usually jab once but a lot will jab twice. Wait for the first Jab then shield grab, if they jab again you've CC'd the hit and can grab them again.

CC in shield is actually a pretty good idea against Jabbers.
 

Retroking2000

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Sorry if these were asked before, but whats the best way to edge guard Young Link and Samus?
Unfortunatly, Samus is one of, heck im going to say THE best character in the game when it comes to recovering. Bombs, grapple beam, Recovery, her heaviness and air movement/floatiness makes her SOO hard to clear on alot of stages.

With bombs, its really hard to edgeguard Samus, esspecially with Marth, who has no projectile. Your best bet would be just to wait until your friend is done with all his fancy samus recovering and try and launch an attack when he's just getting back up onto the stage. Either that, or dtilt'ing is good for a Samus who likes to get back on the stage from underneath. Sometimes, just a shorthopped forward air can mess her up, if she's that high up.

Marth is at a little bit of a disadvantage against Samus, but popping her up in the air is your best bet, uptiliting and uair own Samus. Exploit her floatiness and your range in the air.

We have to accept things.

A good Samus is nearly impossible to edge-guard with most characters. (keyword:most) Even if you jump off she has an air-dodge.
But something Samus has to accept is Marth has an excellent sword, arguably the best in SSBM.

For edge-guarding. Just predict what Samus will do off of the edge.

I'll help you with combat, considering I'm a Samus player. LOL joking marth 4 lyfe

I hope you did not forget you can destroy missiles with your sword, without that Marth would be in big trouble. You can out range all of Samus's attacks and your f-air is quite the pesk. Play in a fashion that you stay away but close enough to hit. Wavedancing will do an excellent job at putting the pressure on.
Not much I can say, sorry.


Ylink

Down tilt breaks through his Spin Attack. Edgehogging works if you time it right, otherwise you get hit. And if he times it to barely make the ledge, you can short jump and fast fall with downward aerial without jumping off. Time that right and it can always break the Spin Attack in that situation.

If he grabs the edge and pulls himself up normally, pulls himself up with an attack, or rolls back up, then crouch a ways back and do a down smash. Try to position it so its not the tip but rather the hilt of the sword that touches him and he'll be sent far horizontally off the edge. If you mis-aim and hit with the tip he will go up, if that happens just jump and do a fair and if possible follow it with a dair in the same jump to spike him. If he doesnt grab the edge and instead spins back up then simply do a tipper forward smash, you'll outrange him(ain't Marth great?). If you somehow find yourself face to face with him at the edge with no room for a tipper, just shield grab and forward throw him off the ledge and try again.

since the human brain is not consistent he is likely to mess up and you get the edgegaurd

if he's always trying to grab the edge, edge hog him. Grab the edge then when he's coming up to grab it u start getting up from the edge so u would be invincible and he won't be able to grab on and he would fall to his death. Try to see if ur counter can hit him while he's doing the last swipe of his up B.
 

Teczer0

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Marth is at a little bit of a disadvantage against Samus, but popping her up in the air is your best bet, uptiliting and uair own Samus. Exploit her floatiness and your range in the air.

We have to accept things.
???? what???

Marth has so much stuff vs samus...

What aspect of samus's game gives marth a disadvantage vs her?
 

thebluedeath1000

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Tears of seph, didn't see you around before dying off but you show some promise.....but

you are making it out like samus has an advantage or something. Marth can outspace samus and ruin her chances of countering by ccing and hitting back..as you stated. Marth's edgeguard game is top notch so don't be so quick to diss him by her recovery abilities..yes..they are good, but without her second jump/grapple, they are limited severely..and theres rarely times when she is going to have both when you knock her offstage (if you're fighting correctly).

You are mostly right in your info but jesus, don't make it sound like the samus has the advantage in the match.
 

Snakeee

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No, from the ledge, you let go and do an f air. I know it works good for edge guarding falcon. I was wondering who else it was used for. I've seen Cort use it against fox but it was a bit unnecessary there...
 

Teczer0

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No, from the ledge, you let go and do an f air. I know it works good for edge guarding falcon. I was wondering who else it was used for. I've seen Cort use it against fox but it was a bit unnecessary there...
In general its never useful.

Well there are situations you can use it like when m2k did to darkrain (when darkrain obviously was just playing impatiently for some weird reason)

But in general its useless no characters/players are going to recover from next to the stage to the edge if they do itll be like a falco/fox/falcon walljump which probably will probably happen if they hit you with an aerial off the stage or sumthin.

 

Snakeee

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Oh ok....someone told me it was alot more useful, but I guess not thanks.
Whats the easiest way to edgeguard falcon when I dont have time to space for a fsmash?
 

Teczer0

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Well dropping off the ledge double jump b-air is more useful especially if you know they used their double jump and are forced into going into that spot.

edgeguarding falcon is only limited by your imagination :laugh:.

literally you can just time and f-smash. or d-tilt then f-smash.

if your on the edge you can double jump and n-air with the center-back part of the hitbox and send them off the stage again.

Its pretty easy....
 

Snakeee

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Thanks guys, I'm just not thinking clearly right now I knew all that already. Just looking for last minute help before tomorrows weekly...
Any general advice against crazy fast characters? I always seem to be on the defense trying to keep them at bay with my sword, or going for too many grabs. How do I gain the offense against them?
 

Teczer0

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Thanks guys, I'm just not thinking clearly right now I knew all that already. Just looking for last minute help before tomorrows weekly...
Any general advice against crazy fast characters? I always seem to be on the defense trying to keep them at bay with my sword, or going for too many grabs. How do I gain the offense against them?
LOL i will so be at that weekly lmao ;) you should play me or whatever.

ummm your question is far too general.... ... umm don't go for as many grabs and dashdance i guess?

you need to make your question more specific
 

Snakeee

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Yeah I know but its just that really good players with fast characters own me with their speed. Anyone thats faster than Marth just make me play all defensive and nervous and iduno what to do lol.
 

Teczer0

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Yeah I know but its just that really good players with fast characters own me with their speed. Anyone thats faster than Marth just make me play all defensive and nervous and iduno what to do lol.
well... umm marth is fast as well......

anyway you have a sword move back and swing.
 

Snakeee

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So, it is actually ok to play more defensive against them? When I see top Marth players it just seems that theyre almost always on the offensive somehow. I can't even see them playing too much different than me so i just dont get it. Play me in friendlies tomorrow? please? lol
 

Teczer0

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So, it is actually ok to play more defensive against them? When I see top Marth players it just seems that theyre almost always on the offensive somehow. I can't even see them playing too much different than me so i just dont get it. Play me in friendlies tomorrow? please? lol
lol sure np i will

In general marth players like aggressive style of play because it can suffocate lots of characters because they simply sometimes cannot respond to the range.

Peach is a good example of who gets destroyed by marth's range.

Fox also get hurt but not as much.

Lots of marth players also like to "Camp in your face" lol its a great tactic it suffocates players a lot.

Umm... you probably don't know what I look like so when you want to play me 2morrow ask someone at w2z for me I know just about everyone... lol
 

Retroking2000

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I think he means this

I'm looking to play a faster marth, one that can contend at the higher levels of play. is there any way i can punish fast moving characters like falcon and fox

All I can say is use shfflc alot and keep a speedy pace with your attacks,

also to slow fast chars down use shield pressure

to do it you have to combine any attack mainly fair/nair also you can use overB first swipe with a sweetspot dtilt and repeat how you shield pressure with marth
 
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