Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[knightpraetor]

\agrees with arc

but let's face it..SHDFair spam beats n00bs it speeds up the matches so you can get on to the ones where you actually have to think;p

 

[Snakeee]

Ok, I know almost everything to know about Marth, yet my Marth still kinda sucks...I'm starting to think I'm just not cut out to be a Marth player. I have all the technical skill, but somehow I either don't do what I know I'm supposed to be doing or I get too predictable and defensive. I would just main Peach but I need a character to beat Fox...

 

[handsockpuppet]

Ok, I know almost everything to know about Marth, yet my Marth still kinda sucks...I'm starting to think I'm just not cut out to be a Marth player. I have all the technical skill, but somehow I either don't do what I know I'm supposed to be doing or I get too predictable and defensive. I would just main Peach but I need a character to beat Fox...

main with Roy, he's like a manly (but weaker) version of Marth . He has the upperhand against Fox by chainthrowing, juggling, and what not.

 

[Teczer0]

main with Roy, he's like a manly (but weaker) version of Marth . He has the upperhand against Fox by chainthrowing, juggling, and what not.

Roy is worse than marth in EVERY way....

worse combos

worse range

worse speed

worse grabs

the only thing roy has over marth is his dancing blades and his power

lol...

also i agree that the shdf is not a bad retreating option

vs noobs i spam shield breakers >.<

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth is more powerful then Roy overall.

 

[Snakeee]

Could someone try to help me out with my question (well statement), thanks.

 

[ArcNatural]

Ok, I know almost everything to know about Marth, yet my Marth still kinda sucks...I'm starting to think I'm just not cut out to be a Marth player. I have all the technical skill, but somehow I either don't do what I know I'm supposed to be doing or I get too predictable and defensive. I would just main Peach but I need a character to beat Fox...

This question is way too general. You don't state what you have problems with, such as you get dashdance grab camped, or can't keep pressure on, or can't CG, etc. It sounds more like you have an overall skill problem than a Marth problem. Where as every character other than Peach you don't really play well.

 

[Snakeee]

Well, I definitely DO have the technical skill and know when to use it for the most part. It's weird something just doesn't feel right and I get demolished as Marth anyway. I can't keep up with foxes and other fast characters is a big problem to start with.

 

[Retroking2000]

change your movement and increase tech skill

 

[sinoya]

ok i've been practicing marth lately. i'm pretty sure i'll stick with marth as my main, but i'm having some difficulty vs my friends who play fox, falco, and peach.

FOX

1) what should i do when i'm thrown up and hit by consecutive uairs? usually i end up getting hit two or three times and this brings me up to 50% nearly. i read that you can SDI the first hit of the uair to avoid the second, but does this always work?

2) how do i punish sidestepping? since i play with him a lot, he can sidestep most of my attacks and afterwards i get grabbed and am in the situation above. i read somewhere that sidestepping is rarely used in pro matches because it can be easily punished, but i don't know how. i think knowing how to punish his excessive sidestepping will be the key to getting on an even level with him.

FALCO

how do i deal with SHL? i normally try jumping over them, but i usually meet up with falco in the air who will promptly send me down with a dair. is it more effective to become consistent with powershielding the lasers, or should i try to fend off falco in the air?

PEACH

1) what's the most efficient way to kill peach? i'm at a loss here, i can usually build up quite a bit of damage on peach, but am unable to finish her off until nearly 200% due to her amazing horizontal recovery, and marth's lack of up killing ability. though sometimes i get lucky with a tipper'd uair or something, i usually can't finish off peach and this is why i usually lose the match. is there a better way to finish a peach?

2) i've seen people tech peach's downsmash. how is this done? i've tried pressing L during the attack but i still just get hit, and i don't want to try ASDI towards the stage because then i would just take more damage from the dsmash if i mess up. anyone care to explain?

i think that's it. sorry if similar questions were already asked in the question, i tried searching but it didn't really work out. thanks in advance.

 

[ArcNatural]

Fox:
1. Try to DI slightly behind them when thrown if not you can Smash DI any of the upairs if you time it right. If you get the timing down really well (i.e you time the smash DI everytime rather than mash the controller) it can work a majority of the time.

2. Dashdancing. Say he gets up from a tech, dash towards him dash away while he spotdodges and dash back and grab him. You can also dash through him as well. Empty shff to grab or Fsmash. Or just slowly walk towards him and wait for the dodge. Also you could run up to him sh DI back to stop your momentum and nair. The list goes on and on. Just keep in mind to change it up once he stops spotdodging or just keep punishing if they never learn.

Falco:
1. Platform stages are good for helping you deal with lasers, on FD you really need to try to stay close and CG them or edgegaurd. If your going to challenge them in the air you must remember it's very important to keep control of your spacing. If you don't watch the Falco or you go too far they can just jump underneath you and nair or or jump up and nair you if you don't expect them to jump off the ground. Watch the Falco not yourself, he shouldn't be able to jump up and dair you if your in the air, either your jumping too far away and he is jumping over you or your just not paying attention to him. Powershielding is nice, but read the sticky on how to deal with SHL in the Marth boards.

Peach:

1. Pay attention to percentages. Tippered Fsmashes from mid percent combos and uptilts after 120% or so are the most common way to kill Peach if you don't edgegaurd them. You can get an uptilt in a variety of ways, overB to uptilt, wavedash under and uptilt get them on a platform, etc. Mix up downthrow and Fthrow to get Fsmashes as well at mid %. I think around 60-70% Fthrow wavedash to Fsmash works pretty well.

2. CC and tech, not really advised. If your trying to recover and they keep downsmashing you off it's best to try to CC the first part of the dsmash (i.e hold it for like half a second then let go during the dsmash) so you can get sent towards the stage rather than off.

 

[JBM falcon08]

fox falcon and sheik are the considerable marth counters.

 

[ComboTurtle]

JBM... fox isnt a marth counter and falco and sheik can both be dealt with.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Counter = A match-up where all a characters strengths are negated and their weakneeses are amplied vs a certain character.

Marth has no match-ups that fit this criteria.

 

[Retroking2000]

Emblem lord how much tourneys have you won , with knowledge like that i guessing you won a lot

 

[Emblem Lord]

I have won zero.

Knowledge =/= Skill

Not to say I'm not a decent player, but...

Put it to you this way.

I live in the same state as Mew2King.

>_>

Yeaaaaaaaaah.

 

[JBM falcon08]

well let me state it differently, the only character that put up a fight are fox, falcon, sheik. maybe falco but he's much to easy to gimp.

 

[Retroking2000]

yeah i agree with JBM , i keep thinking emblem lord is JBM

 

[TxuZz]

I have a Question and i dont know if it has been previously answered, cause im lazy and there's a lot, i mean A LOT of replies. Q: what's the best way to pull the ken combo off ( Fair x 3 + spike, i refer to the last move), A: second jump with Y, then tilt with the control stick down, B: second jump with teh stick, then spike with C-stick, C: do everything with The stick only? I've been watching ken's vids, and i noticed that when he spikes his marth is still going upwards, cause of the jump. I've tried a lot and i cant do that. I hate fastfalling instead of remaining floaty after the spike... i just cant do it. please help this noob, who loves the game and wants to get better by simply answering this question. Thanks.

 

[handsockpuppet]

Iunno about whats the best way but I do what you explained in "B".

 

[ArcNatural]

Usually the ending is a fulljumped fair where the fair hits tipped somewhere in the middle of your jump to a double jump dair. I find these to be much more common than doing sh fair to double jump dair.

I watch the opponent. If when I hit them they are still close to me after the fair I just hold down during the fair animation and just hit X then A really fast for the dair. If they are hit a little higher I normally just double jump then dair with the c-stick. Doing the first method should give you the rising dair, and you should be able to easily do that without even hitting anyone to get the feel for it. Just substitute X with Y for yourself. You should be holding down before the second jump as you have time to do so before the attack, so you should never accidentally fastfall it.

 

[rideonshootingstarxx]

I don't know if this has been asked but I really don't wanna go through 85 pages to hunt it down, I'm sorry.
How important is wavedashing to Marth and what can he do with it? I just got the hang of wavedashing literally today and I was wondering how to incorporate it into my game.

 

[knightpraetor]

question...if a fox player likes to go low to recover because he is good at ledgeteching/ angled sweetspots...am i better off going down and trying to over b him and kill? or ledgehop spike him? or just stay on the platform and edgeguard with dtilt.

it's just that oftentimes after a dthrow i have trouble going off to edgeguard fox like i would falco since he has the option of going really low...i figured i should just hop back to the ledge but sometimes i don't get there in time..probbaly meaning that i followed him too low thinking to over B edgeguard perhaps

 

[ArcNatural]

question...if a fox player likes to go low to recover because he is good at ledgeteching/ angled sweetspots...am i better off going down and trying to over b him and kill? or ledgehop spike him? or just stay on the platform and edgeguard with dtilt.

it's just that oftentimes after a dthrow i have trouble going off to edgeguard fox like i would falco since he has the option of going really low...i figured i should just hop back to the ledge but sometimes i don't get there in time..probbaly meaning that i followed him too low thinking to over B edgeguard perhaps

You just have too many options. If they are low but cannot sweetspot you can just counter then run off and fair. If they go low but not directly underneath the stage you can dash off fastfall and fair them (might have to DI back a bit to avoid the firefox). You can grab ledge invincibility immediate nair,fair,bair, overB to upB etc.

If they are looking to tech the dair is probably not going to work if they can possibly ride up the stage, your better off ledgegrabbing to a fastfalled overB to upB, or just falling past them and fairing and hope you threw off the tech timing.

To Rideonshootingstarxxx : wavedashing is useful for spacing, avoiding attacks, and intimidation (afraid of Fsmash). Just make sure when you are first learning to use wavedash to do it for A PURPOSE. Don't wavedash without a reason (ex: Wavedash back when you see opponent approach to see if they whiff an attack). That should cut down on using the wavedash wrong.

 

[balladechina212]

question...if a fox player likes to go low to recover because he is good at ledgeteching/ angled sweetspots...am i better off going down and trying to over b him and kill? or ledgehop spike him? or just stay on the platform and edgeguard with dtilt.

it's just that oftentimes after a dthrow i have trouble going off to edgeguard fox like i would falco since he has the option of going really low...i figured i should just hop back to the ledge but sometimes i don't get there in time..probbaly meaning that i followed him too low thinking to over B edgeguard perhaps

I play a Fox who does this exact thing. I've learned to counter to fair his firefoxes and so he is now trying to sweetspot the ledge every time. Since I know he is going to sweetspot, I just edgehog and take an easy stock. Sooner or later, however, he'll stop sweetspotting and I start countering again. Remember, you control how the Fox recovers, not the other way around.

 

[knightpraetor]

ya so i guess countering to fair just wasn't working for me..i'm guessing he was going really low so as to sweetspot or go up using the firefox at the 11 o clockish position..i just wanted to make sure that i could actually get off and try for an over B..against falco i often just go off anyways, only time they can really punish you for off the edge edgeguarding against falco is if they di a down throw off and then immediately jump away and phantasm through you as you come out to them...and as long as you watch their DI you usually won't fall for that..plus you can fair and clank with the phantasm if nothing else.

but with fox i guess i was just tossing him off then immediately going off after him and he'd drop so low that i kept failing to make it to him in time with the over B...i think maybe he was fastfalling down.

so i figured my best option might be to edgehog or dair edgehop, but I kept going too far after him that getting back to the ledge wasted too much time:\

i guess perhaps i'm going to hvae to stop assuming i can cover every possible recovery like i can with falco and just focus on making sure of a right guess:\

 

[Teczer0]

Well when i played m2k one thing he does is use his reaction time to his advantage.

Its actually not too hard if you see your opponent double jump and fall down follow them.

They can only Fire Fox from that point anyway when they start to Fire just double jump F-air (center to knock them away) then recover.

Also if they go down ALL the way to try to recover straight up just dancing blade double jump then recover.

Fox's up-b recovery gets owned soo hard by marth .

EDIT: btw dont fast fall it will only make your job of reacting much harder you can still catch up to them as long as you fall off the stage as soon as the fox falls under the ledge of the stage.

 

[_SSnakeKen]

also you can use smashupB and fair is good but the best alternative is to spike due to a proclaimed factor non total comeback

 

[knightpraetor]

sheik has just naired behind your shield hitting it and intends to downsmash afterwards....what options do you have?

i'm just wondering if anything can get out besides roll..i'm betting WD out of shield probably won't work..can a quick aerial hit behind before the dsmash starts up? or maybe jump higher than the dsmash before it gets off?

 

[ArcNatural]

If you absolutely know they are going to downsmash and have enough shield you can just sh a dair after the dsmash, be careful of the percentage though since they may be able to cc it. You could also lightshield it to be pushed far enough away to just be able to do anything out of shield after the nair or the first part of the dsmash. People underestimate the usefulness of the lightshield, especially with Marth's range.

 

[ComboTurtle]

is there any percentage at which uthrow -> u tilt is certain to work on sheik?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Zero percent.

 

[knightpraetor]

but at zero % they can nair out if they don't di...anyways, thanks..lighthshielding was the option i should have thought of earlier..knew i was missing something

so i got shine spiked a lot more than i am used to today (~6 times out of 8 attempts to shinespike) in about 25matches or so of 4stock..

anyways some discussion on what methods i can use to avoid it is good...i'm guessing jump away and fair if he comes off and i have my jump? sometimes i catch myself trying to jump sweetspot the ledge before he can edgeguard and then he's off to go after me really fast:\

also, sometimes you get one of those unlucky shines on stage right as you Doublejump so you go off and only have the up B...i'm guessing there i should have fastfalled immediately to use the up b...oh wait..you can't fastfall accept after you were jumping right?

so basically i have to time an over b as he comes near or an up B

which is more effective?

marth shouldn't get shine spiked much out of his recovery no? i mean he can swipe the fox if he times it right..

oh another question is if you are dropping down to sweetspot the up b and the fox comes at you...is upairing a good idea? i'm not sure if you will still be able to up b recover...also i could up b early but that means he may get on and edgeguard me.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Ok, I have a question/need help with something. I can double Fair on command from right to left, its easy with the c-stick, but I cant seem to do it very well from left to right. Its because I cant seem to get my thumb on the A button fast enough. When I use the c-stick i just sort of slide the lower part of my thumb to hit the stick, but I cant do it from left to right. Is there a better way to do it, or am I just stuck having to set up for it?

 

[ComboTurtle]

Zero percent.

any other percent? p.s this doesnt help too much if they can nair u after it like knight said. can u give me any useful information regarding uthrow -> u air on sheik



edit: pink u should be able to do it just as fast left to right, practice i guess. i do however find it harder to do retreating double fairs going right to left but its still fair easy to get them out and i dont really use retreating double fairs much... anyways just practice

 

[Emblem Lord]

If they can always do something to get out of it then that should give you a clue as to how useful it is.

 

[Aesir]

just wait for the DJ and uair >_>

 

[knightpraetor]

ya it's just another mindgame situation..if they plan to fall and tech just uptilt..also if you got the upthrow off fast they may not react and jump out at the right time..but if they start jumping out aerial them....and if they start falling and teching or aerialling just uptilt...also remember..if you were planning to aerial them and they get lower and lower..don't try to uptilt..it won't come out in time...shield the aerial and regrab...also consider switching up a spotdodge or roll as they land if you think they will grab instead of aerial

 

[ComboTurtle]

ya it's just another mindgame situation..if they plan to fall and tech just uptilt..also if you got the upthrow off fast they may not react and jump out at the right time..but if they start jumping out aerial them....and if they start falling and teching or aerialling just uptilt...also remember..if you were planning to aerial them and they get lower and lower..don't try to uptilt..it won't come out in time...shield the aerial and regrab...also consider switching up a spotdodge or roll as they land if you think they will grab instead of aerial

Thanks aesir and knight atleast u guys are trying to help me out, cheers.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Most Shieks don't nair out of it, so just abuse that.

I wait for the jump and then combo till about 80% or death since they have wasted their jump.