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Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

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ComboTurtle

Smash Lord
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What you want to do first is stop their turnip game. You can do this by staying just outside of anything they can do to you, but within threat range, so they can't pull turnips before you can hit them. Turnip pulls are actually pretty slow, so it's not too hard to do.

Then, shut down everything else they can do. Peach is a very slow character. Her float is slow and so is her run. So just space yourself out, don't use anything overly laggy and you'll completely take her apart. Watch the falling fair though, it's got a crazy hitbox that hits like right below her at some point.

Grabs work really well against Peach, as she's floaty, so you can catch her and finish with an fsmash or utilt or something along those lines. Ken Combos work too. Mostly, you'll want to keep her above you, as her options are severely limited there, since her dair has no priority and she can't pull turnips there. If she floats around, just follow her.

If she manages to grab you, look at your percent. At higher percentages (like over a hundred), expect the fthrow. DI up and towards so you don't die. At lower percentages, watch for the dthrow. DI down and behind her so you don't get combo'd after it.

If she manages to pull a turnip, nair through the throw. If she pulls a scary turnip, don't be afraid. Just keep hitting her, and try to avoid getting hit by the turnip.

If you're recovering against Peach and she's standing on the ledge, tap L or R as you're rising with the Dolphin Slash and you'll tech the dsmash if she uses it. It's pretty easy to do. Also, if she throws turnips, save your double jump and try to avoid them the best you can.

Oh yeah, and don't crouch cancel the dsmash.

Once again a very helpful post thanks heaps :) also while m2k is around ive got a question to ask him or anyone else that can answer it. I've seen alot of videos where you ledge hop nair into an opponents shield and then dash behind and pivot grab them, does this work all the time presuming the nair gets auto cancelled? and do u have to fast fall it at all?

also whats the best way to di if you're grabbed by a falcon and also the best way to di if grabbed by a sheik


thanks sorry for all the questions guys <3
 

IrArby

Smash Ace
Joined
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Yea nearly everyone is much better now a days. So many people are waveshielding now , for example, which most people didn't used to. Falco went down because of it. IMO, if you're sideB someone to flip em up, Uptilt is the safest following action. More Bs or jabs will often get you CC into something bad.

JBM falcon 08's match: At 1:05 I have this problem aswell (hanging on the edge too often). Its usually better to stay onstage and wait for them to land/tech and act accordingly. The same thing with 1:44 which is really more mistimed then misjudged I think. You really caught on around 2:05 though and again at 2:44 FTW. Lol at 2:11. Other than those things which were merely match specific miscalculations I don't have any real criticisms. Your tech, prediction, spacing, and aggressive play were pretty good. You clearly controlled this match so kudos.

this whole post really isn't at all helpful I think I'm just bored.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
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Wow, he lived for a long time first stock. You should bair more for edgeguards instead of uairs, especially when he's way too damaged to be combo'd into a finisher.

When Falcon goes out for you like that and misses, you can double jump and throw a bair at him to throw him off, then recover.

You might want to replace some of the nairs with fairs, as they're easier to space and have better comboability and priority, which you're going to need against Falcon's nair.

I can't remember if you dashdanced or not. If yes, good! If not, do it.
 

JBM falcon08

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the nair is probably the best move to space yourself with if your not after him. fair is good when trying to approach him but really honestly i don't use many aerials toapproach falcon bcuz mis-spaced aerial = raptor boost.

also this falcon is pretty darn good at creating the combos so i play on the ground like a ***** lol.

thanks guys.
 

ArcNatural

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the nair is probably the best move to space yourself with if your not after him. fair is good when trying to approach him but really honestly i don't use many aerials toapproach falcon bcuz mis-spaced aerial = raptor boost.

also this falcon is pretty darn good at creating the combos so i play on the ground like a ***** lol.

thanks guys.
Retreating single fairs, and empty shff/wavelands or stationary shffls work fine.

I don't really like nairs unless I think I can do late nairs. Raptor boost seems to go under nairs a lot for me so I tend to just try to react off single fairs.

It was too small of a stage (since Falcon can cover the whole thing with 1 dash practically) to really judge your approaches. But if you were both on the stage it seems like you stayed in place a lot.

But one thing I noticed is you never actually dash danced towards him (ie dash forward before back). You ran behind him twice, but it was never dash dancing/fox trotting. I find this useful because a lot of Falcons try to hit you by predicting the dash dance away, so I find by mixing up dash dancing towards him I get a lot more looks. A majority of the match was spent by you camping in front of you, which I understand why you would do so. So I'm just throwing out a different approach that you might not do.
 

JBM falcon08

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yeah the nair does get hit by raptor boost alot if your approaching with it, most of the time when i use nair i just camp in place and shffl it while spacing where i'm not gonna get hit.

I really play with my spacing so i don't do too much moving around, i wait for them to come to me and just space, i really only use dashdancing as a form of approach or just to trick them into dodging before i tech chase grab.

All Nebraska is are falcons it seems lol, so i'm pretty good on the matchup, space animals are what i need experience on.
 

elvenarrow3000

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The earliest he can hit with the Raptor Boost is frame nineteen, and that's if you're RIGHT next to him. Marth stays in the air for twenty-six frames at the most, and has seven frames at most landing lag, providing you L-cancel properly. Shield comes out instantly. I really doubt you'll get hit by the Raptor Boost unless your opponent has REALLY good reflexes or you are just completely sucky at spacing. If you short hop and he's not in range, you could always just waveland or land normally, then shield grab his Raptor Boost.
 

Ryucloud

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This thread is awesone finally some one can help me out Im been polishing my marth bashed off the ken and and neo marth style the mindgames ddancing combos and spacing o yeah and hell of agressive playing stlye do you have any advice to improve my marth also questions

I need help to learn marth Short hop Double Fairs i can get the first one but never the second one need help bad

2. do u have a pratice for wavedashing

3. I always had problems vs captian falcons do you have any advice
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
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Dude... seriously... shdf... it's just practice. There really is no secret. You have a four frame window to do it.

Wavedashing is also just practice.

Against Falcons, watch out for the nair. DI down and away to break combos and straight up to live from knees. Mix up the DI from throws.

Edgeguard with the dtilt... expect the ledgetech.

And yeah.
 

KyUuKyUu

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What to do against a campy Fox? He doesn't necessarily laser spam, he just kinda sits there and doesn't approach, and waits for me to do something so he can get a shine followed by a whole bunch of uthrow gayness. I can usually still beat the guy, but on stages like FD it just pisses me off that he's literally just standing on the opposite of the stage doing nothing. Any advice?
 

KirbyKaze

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What to do against a campy Fox? He doesn't necessarily laser spam, he just kinda sits there and doesn't approach, and waits for me to do something so he can get a shine followed by a whole bunch of uthrow gayness. I can usually still beat the guy, but on stages like FD it just pisses me off that he's literally just standing on the opposite of the stage doing nothing. Any advice?
approach slowly.

walk up to him so you're at optimal range (he should be in range of your grab or tipped fair and you completely out of range for him) and then **** him for letting you acquire such a perfect position. if he's lingering near the edge even better.

just don't mess up your spacing and he loses. if he refuses to be proactive and run around and play the baiting/distance games with you then he should die for it.
 

ArcNatural

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approach slowly.

walk up to him so you're at optimal range (he should be in range of your grab or tipped fair and you completely out of range for him) and then **** him for letting you acquire such a perfect position. if he's lingering near the edge even better.

just don't mess up your spacing and he loses. if he refuses to be proactive and run around and play the baiting/distance games with you then he should die for it.
This and empty shff/ empty shff to wavelands/ and auto-cancel nairs are all good methods of baiting campy foxes. Especially if they like to approach right after land from jumping.
 

Locke17

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I can SH from the Shffl tech. but fast falling seems to be made from luck I'm still unsure at what moment i should do this.And i know there is no more l-cancelling anymore
 

ArcNatural

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I can SH from the Shffl tech. but fast falling seems to be made from luck I'm still unsure at what moment i should do this.And i know there is no more l-cancelling anymore
Fastfalling can be done after the peak of the jump. Just practice and eventually you will get the timing of it. I tend to vary my fastfall times. From a sh, unless it's a multihit move, you tend to want to fastfall after you hit something. If you don't hit anything you just fastfall l-cancel as normal.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by no l-canceling anymore. This is a Melee thread, not Brawl. Theoretically, as long as your in some type of attacking animation (A or B move) you can hit the l-cancel button everytime you would normally l-cancel. As long as you do it right no shield will come up regardless, even if it's autocanceled. The only time it's a bad idea to do this is if your not in any attacking animation, as you will airdodge. But you can make that useful too via wavelanding.
 

halcyon.days

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I have some problems with chain grabbing Fox if they keep alternating sides.

I can pivot grab perfectly, but there isn't time to do it if they're at low percents. I can usually catch them a few times if they keep DI-ing opposites way everytime I uthrow but eventually I screw up.

However, I can cg Fox usually pretty good even if they alternate sides, is this because Fox's uthrow sends them higher than Marth's?
 

MexicanBJ

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when you're marth, and fox is 0-3/4 percent i believe, do a fthrow, regrab first, that'll give the fox the damage he needs to be cged, other wise, if he di's the uthrow behind you at 0, you can't grab him, not fast enough

dunno if that answers anything

and yea, fox throws higher......i thinksies
 

Falcinho

Smash Ace
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^nope it should work from 0%

And doing a fthrow at very low % is a cool thing but Fox can DI away and buffer a spotdodge/roll to escape.
 

MexicanBJ

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actually, yea, sorry, i mixed fox up with falco

you can't cg falco from 0 if he di's behind on the first throw

yea fox you can still pivot grab at 0, but it's not too easy

falcinho is right that there are ways around the fthrow->regrab but it usually catches people off guard....unless you always do it
 

ArcNatural

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actually, yea, sorry, i mixed fox up with falco

you can't cg falco from 0 if he di's behind on the first throw

yea fox you can still pivot grab at 0, but it's not too easy

falcinho is right that there are ways around the fthrow->regrab but it usually catches people off guard....unless you always do it
You don't pivot grab at 0%... The only reason you pivot grab after 20% or so if they DI up is because EVEN though you can grab them by standing still, they can shine you before the grab comes out. That's the only reason you pivot grab, to get out of range of the shine and still grab.

Marth most cases between 0% is either grab forward or back, there is just a much smaller margin of error due to the smaller window in which to grab.
 

elvenarrow3000

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Yeah, you pretty much just have to turn around and grab. Make sure you don't dash grab, though. You could always just tech chase if you do miss the grab, or jab reset. Also, you could dthrow/fthrow tech chase for a while if you feel more confidant in that.
 

halcyon.days

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Yeah, you pretty much just have to turn around and grab. Make sure you don't dash grab, though. You could always just tech chase if you do miss the grab, or jab reset. Also, you could dthrow/fthrow tech chase for a while if you feel more confidant in that.
I've always found Marth's tap reset to be... lacking. It just seems so slow compared to say, falcon's or fox's.
 

elvenarrow3000

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I think the dtilt probably has too much knockback. I'm pretty sure the Dancing Blade never works so you're pretty much stuck with Marth's jab. Sucky, but what can ya do?
 

EWC

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I find marth's jab very useful for jab resets. Because of its range, it can cover a lot options, especially if you can pivot jab and pivot turnaround jab.
 

DtJ Jungle

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uhhh...i dont find it that useful
i find it useful as a mindfuk thats about it
upthrow on a spacie. wd back jab..thats about all i ever do. and thats rare.

dtilt just puts them back upright...so t hey can attack or jump righ away...its not the slow get up
 

DtJ Jungle

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oh right....phantasm....i forget ****...ive seen it a few times for priority...rarely for resets.
 

elvenarrow3000

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I use it for a lot of things, just not so much for jab resets.

I dunno, as far as jabs go, Marth's is kinda slow.
 

MexicanBJ

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 24, 2008
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kk agreed

lol, i guess everyone's jab is good at for stuffing shield grabs (dont be a smartass and find someone irrelevant)
 

HiIH

Smash Lord
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Dec 20, 2007
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Atlanta, Ga
Things i see Marth's jab used against me for.

Spacing, swipe away projectiles, stop phantasms and spacie up+B's, and the already said stopping shield grabs?
 
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