Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[KeybladeMarth]

^thanks
10thanks

 

[elvenarrow3000]

The bair is kinda slow and unwieldy... I use it mostly for edgeguarding and when I can't really hit with anything else... in most situations, the fair is better.

Dashdancing is mostly for approaches or tech chases... wavedashing can be used for edgehogs, spacing, avoiding attacks, pulsewalking, quick bursts of movement... anything like that.

 

[Tero.]

DD and WD are spacing tools.
Usefull application comes with experience.

 

[Psyke]

I know how to do the double fair but how do i fair to uair in a low-jump...Im having trouble doing this

 

[Ndot]

I know how to do the double fair but how do i fair to uair in a low-jump...Im having trouble doing this

Its basically the same timing as the double fair, but if you're having trouble staying low to the ground, you're probably jumping with the analog stick by mistake and up airing. To do the low one, use the c-stick up for the up air to do it properly, its more consistent than the analog stick method.

 

[SHDW23]

the other thing about doing the uair after the fair in a sh is that, at least from what i've experienced, if you fast fall at all you don't have time to do the second aerial. sometimes when i hold back (and sometimes up) on the control stick, the second aerial doesn't come out. try holding forward on the control stick throughout the sh and using the c-stick to do the uair as ndot suggested at least until you get the timing down.

 

[Proverbs]

The bair is kinda slow and unwieldy... I use it mostly for edgeguarding and when I can't really hit with anything else... in most situations, the fair is better.

The f-air is better in a lot of situations, but the b-air is useful for knocking people off the stage prior to edgeguarding as it doesn't pop them up as much as the f-air does. Beyond that, it's also good when someone's somewhat above you instead of the u-air. If they're about the percentage that you could start trying to KO them, use the b-air when they're above you, and they'll go to one side of the stage (either behind or in front of you depending on your positioning).

*shrug* I like it. But you're right, it's definitely not used as much as the f-air with good reason.

 

[Psyke]

Im back again but with a diffrent question...mostly on match ups...Im mostly having trouble with falco and only falco...When ever i go against one im usually shielding I know how to powershield consistantly but that isnt really much help at all... any help with approach ideas would be great thanks

 

[JBM falcon08]

i actually think i'm done playing marth. i play so well in all the matchups except for the ones that are most popular, fox and falco. i have no idea what to do for the most part against them other than get a grab and ct. i don't like the pressure.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

psyke thers a whole thread on that...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=102497

 

[Ndot]

Im back again but with a diffrent question...mostly on match ups...Im mostly having trouble with falco and only falco...When ever i go against one im usually shielding I know how to powershield consistantly but that isnt really much help at all... any help with approach ideas would be great thanks

Crouch cancelling his aerial approaches then grabbing from there helps tremendously in stopping his combos and helps you get a free grab to combo from. You need to be careful though, he might be scared and change up his approach tactics and grab you instead, or just camp you lol. But we all know Marth's grab range can outgrab Falco =).

 

[ArcNatural]

Crouch cancelling his aerial approaches then grabbing from there helps tremendously in stopping his combos and helps you get a free grab to combo from. You need to be careful though, he might be scared and change up his approach tactics and grab you instead, or just camp you lol. But we all know Marth's grab range can outgrab Falco =).

You mean all his aerial approaches besides dair. Which is what Falco does... 80% of the time.

 

[Ndot]

^^yep, forgot to say that. I love ccing nair, its so cool lol. CCing dair at low percents to grab usually works, doesnt it?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

If he shffl's the dair right and shines right after, I don't think you could get the grab off... especially if he jump canceled the shine.

I could be wrong though.

 

[RaynEX]

^^yep, forgot to say that. I love ccing nair, its so cool lol. CCing dair at low percents to grab usually works, doesnt it?

No, it doesn't work like that. Too much hitstun after the dair.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Is Pivot to Counter something worth my while learning?

I am able to (almost) pivot now on a consistent basis, but moving my hands into said position takes a bit different timing for me that I would need to master.

 

[RaynEX]

its useless...if you're going to counter just stand in place and do it, or SH and do it. If you want to pivot something, pivot fsmashes. That **** is maad useful.

 

[IrArby]

New Edgeguard I just made up. Its very odd, situational and probably not as useful as I want to make it sound.

Against whomever coming in at around stage level: give the edge a fairly wide berth, at least enough for a dash. Run, and shield as you near the edge to intercept they're recovery. Because you shielded you'll slide right off. Then, jump with the Control(analog) stick and using mid blade, Fair them.

No edge techs, just ****. No one would figure out why your shielding whilst facing the stage and they lose a stock during they're confusion. Yes I know it is amazing isn't it? Your thoughts?

And yes I'm very bored.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

...wait what? You slide off in shield... and they don't grab the edge...?

I'm confused.

EDIT: Oh yeah, pivot grabs. Learn them, love them. Not only do they look uber pro, but they're also very very useful. In fact, they're pretty much required for chaingrabs.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

its useless...if you're going to counter just stand in place and do it, or SH and do it. If you want to pivot something, pivot fsmashes.

Thanks for saving me the trouble. I agree, fsmashes make great pivoting.

Oh yeah, pivot grabs. Learn them, love them. Not only do they look uber pro, but they're also very very useful. In fact, they're pretty much required for chaingrabs.

Pivot grabs? Hmm...I tend to dash dance into JC grabs, but I guess a pivot grab is probably more useful. Thanks.

 

[IrArby]

You slide off and Fair them before they're very close to the edge assuming they're aiming for the edge. Its just something stupid and funny I do.

 

[kdna11]

cool i've done this!! and it works and i D air too it looks more **** on the edge haha
greettings =]

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Why wouldn't you just... run off and fair? Why the shield?

 

[ArcNatural]

Why wouldn't you just... run off and fair? Why the shield?

People can see the shield and think they you might be expecting them to upb early so you can OOS something. It's what I would think, and therefore, doing this little sliding trick could trick people into feeling safe to drop past you.

If you are not looking at your opponent's character when recovering... you should be. For some reason I feel like you should know this Elvenarrow. Brain fart?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i feel like that's not as intuitive as you think it is...

 

[ArcNatural]

i feel like that's not as intuitive as you think it is...

Why not? When foxes drop to shine you don't you obligatory spam upB or overB to interrupt it? If you see someone let go of the edge in an edgegaurd attempt do you doublejump/airdodge to attempt to avoid it? At higher levels of play this also evolves into pretending to go for the edge but just staying on the stage.

This seems to me like the opposite, pretending to stay on the stage but actually going off. Basically just enough flash to make your opponent hesitate.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i mean i understand why you would do it and why its smart to do...its just something i think most people wouldnt think of initially

 

[ArcNatural]

i mean i understand why you would do it and why its smart to do...its just something i think most people wouldnt think of initially

I normally don't assume anything, but Elvenarrow does give general good advice. I'm leaning on he was tired or tippered.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Eh, didn't give it much though 'cause I thought IrAby was just messing around, but I could see it being useful, situationally. Personally, I'd rather stick with reliable stuff like dtilt, because if you slid off against Fox's Fox Illusion and missed with the fair, they'd just drop and shinespike you.

Also, the timing would be kinda wonky and difficult to use.

 

[ArcNatural]

Eh, didn't give it much though 'cause I thought IrAby was just messing around, but I could see it being useful, situationally. Personally, I'd rather stick with reliable stuff like dtilt, because if you slid off against Fox's Fox Illusion and missed with the fair, they'd just drop and shinespike you.

Also, the timing would be kinda wonky and difficult to use.

You probably would never do something like this to Fox or Falco unless you know what they are going to do. Simply because staying on the stage pretty much covers all of their options.

I'm not saying this is an amazing tactic and everyone should be using it all the time by any means. Just that in certain situations you could possibly consider this. Just like the 30 or so other options Marth has for edgegaurding.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

@_@ Who would you use it against then?

 

[ArcNatural]

It could work in Marth dittos, Sheik, probably anyone with a fast double jump to recover or fast UPb to recover. This only really works if you run up to the edge and shield a lot to punish double jumped attacks or early Upbs. Then when they try to safely sweetspot cause they think you are going to stay in shield you can do the shield slide off to attack.

Just another option if you think it's viable. If you don't think it is, don't worry about it.

 

[IrArby]

With this technique, I was kind of a thinking "It could mix things up with this and throw people off and it'll still be kind of viable but, I want to run it by those guys in the Marth boards since I can't really test it myself at the moment. Then again, I posted some dumb stuff when I was still a noob to the boards and competitively, I still catorigize myself as such, so thats all the more reason to post it here and see what they think rather than pronoucing how useful I think it is and having someone point out how stupid I can be." Glad to see a few folks see it as not completely useless though.

Oh Yea and I thought it was cool that you could slide of the stage in your shield (since no one had metioned this to me) unforntunately sliding off forwards <<<<<<<<<< the options available if you slide off backwards in most cases.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I guess I'll try it out and see how it feels before making further judgments.

 

[SHDW23]

it seems to me, though i haven't tested it, that this strategy might be more effective coming down off a platform rather than going off the stage, since that way you don't have to worry about recovery and such. but is there enough room to get up to full speed run on the platforms? i don't know. but doing it off the stage makes me a little nervous (i have tried that). maybe it's just because i'm not used to it. the other thing i thought of is: could this be combined with some technique that would allow you to turn around and grab the edge (such as ledge-pivoting or w/e it's called) as you slide off?

 

[Ndot]

Are you guys talking about this technique in this vid? Its a bit different since its lightshield but take a look. M2k has been doing it since July from this vid, probably even earlier than that too. M2k *****.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=yWf3ufZiNCA

 

[ArcNatural]

Are you guys talking about this technique in this vid? Its a bit different since its lightshield but take a look. M2k has been doing it since July from this vid, probably even earlier than that too. M2k *****.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=yWf3ufZiNCA

It's kind of the same application, except that sliding off causes your shield to cancel, not getting hit.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

No, what M2K did was just a... reverse lightshield edgehog, basically. Works on the same principles as the normal lightshield edgehog, but instead of grabbing the ledge, you fall forward and can shine/Rest/whatever them.

 

[halcyon.days]

A few questions for everyone.. I read like, the first 40 pages, but after JUST playing a few matches against my friend I had a few questions I wanted to know the answer to.

1) I try to ddance to fmash my opponent when there's an opening, but about 90% of the time, he shields, then wavedashes -> grab and I get combo'd. If I fmash a shield, am I guaranteed to get wavedashed-grabbed like this?

2) When hit in the air (or grabbed, for that matter), is there a "best" way to recover/get out of the grab? (When i say recover, I mean turn from a falling position to a falling upright position in the air).

3) On page 40~ish, someone said that ledgeteching with mines won't work. Is this true, because I've been practicing with mines for a bit and it SEEMS to work...

Thanks

EDIT: I also wanted to know if there was a comprehensive list of Marth's fmash trajectory. (ie. when you get hit at the highest point of his fmash, you basically go horizontal, etc.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

1. yeah you shouldnt use fsmash very liberally there's better options...if he's standing their shielding just dd to grab adn then you can punish..otherwise you can like ftilt, or nair l cancel grab if he shields... or fair instead of nair...i dunno thats what i'd do

2. it depends on the grab and di away from the combo...dont try to 'survival' di or else ur jsut ****ed...it all depends on where you're traveling

3. it does work

4. it depends on the DI