Mangos Falco Advice

[soap]

I use A for all my fairs except for aerial shine -> fair.

same here

i love shine fair

 

[JPOBS]

i figured out the marf killer.

i just hold directly to the horizontal -_-

 

[omgwtfToph]

I guess this is more for mango if u get the chance to read this but I'll take advice from whoever!

Falco ditto. I'm pretty solid at this matchup but I wanna work at it more. What do you think are the most important things to remember in this matchup? like general advice. and any tricks you think are applicable.

Also, I'm good at avoiding getting shined oos (I do a lot of pullback aerials and double shines or w.e) but I'm not that good at shining out of shield myself. When do you usually look for holes in falco shield pressure ,and what are the best ways to get out?

Lastly what kinda **** do you look for when you try to edgeguard? I mean, I know edgeguarding falco as falco is hella easy, but I'll take any advice haha. SPECIFICALLY after fthrow/bthrow by the ledge, cause thats more tricky. Like if you fthrow/bthrow another falco by the edge, what are the best things to do?

ty :D

 

[COHEED AND CAMBRIA]

I dont know if this question has been answered by you already but im really struggling with my falco. I can't decide if i should use "a" or the c stick for aerials. When i use the c stick with falco i dont seem to fast fall as fast and im having trouble with sheil pressuring. When i use A im faster but tend to make Mistakes. I also have a major problem with full jumping after double shines. HALP!!

 

[omgwtfToph]

dude if you can't shffl consistently you shouldn't be working on double shines

if you're not falling as fast when you use the c-stick then you're trying to fastfall too late (or you're not trying to fastfall at all!?) make sure you hit down on the d-stick AFTER you start falling, in other words after the peak of your short hop. just

go into FD, plug in 2 controllers and plug the 2nd one in with the stick up so it's always crouching

pick like Bowser or someone on it, turn damage ratio to 0.5 and then set the handicap to the dummy bowser at 9, you at 1. then pick FD or something and just go to town :D

 

[COHEED AND CAMBRIA]

Well thats the problem im not to great with tech skill but i am a solid player i just have really good mind games but with falco its just so **** hard. I've had hours of practice trying to shffl i just cant do it i can do all the tech stuff with fox but not falco i dont get it.

 

[omgwtfToph]

hours in one afternoon might not be enough! Just keep at it :D you got this

honestly some falco **** is weird especially if you're used to Fox cause with Falco its like, wait, i'm a space animal, but all my **** is slow.

just slooooow it down a little bit and keep practicing

when you do it right, take note to yourself why it worked. when you **** it up, don't just be like "GOD I ****ed up again," take note to yourself what specifically you ****ed up on (fastfall too early? L-cancel too early? L-cancel too late?) and purposely try to fix that aspect

 

[COHEED AND CAMBRIA]

Yeah i'll try to slow down its weird tho because my falco is much better then my fox even tho my tech skill is way better with fox lol. Idk i just might be messed up because 90% of my practice is with my best friend who is The midwest's best zelda.

 

[Mogwai]

IMO Falco dittos are all about having better laser control, better combos, and being able to shine OoS.

Shine OoS timing is tricky, but it's usually after their shine since most people delay between the shine and their next aerial. It's not set in stone though, as there are many different timings that people can use while pressuring your shield. The more important thing than being able to shine OoS vs. shield pressure is being able shine OoS when the two of you are sitting next to each other in shield or after they dash attack your shield. Dash attacking is really good in dittos to catch them lasering and setup a combo, but if you can read the spacing and instead of lasering, just fast fall -> shield -> shine OoS, you can keep them honest about not using dash attack to set **** up.

So if you bthrow someone off the edge, you can go for the classic Rob$ (bthrow -> fsmash), which is an autokill vs. people who mash jump and DI into the lasers. This won't work a lot, but it's payoff is really high. I prefect bthrow -> downward angled ftilt, as this combos much more frequently and will still eat their jump if they're being stupid about it and mashing jump. Neither of these work vs. away DI which avoids the lasers, but if you downward angled ftilt, you can then try to dsmsah when they then recover right afterwards.

After fthrow, you mostly want to run off the stage then DJ and do either double lasers or nair. When you do a rising nair, you counter them trying to just DJ back onto the stage or DJing backwards and attempting to forward B onto the stage. Lasers cover more options, but have lower payoff vs. Forward B since you'll frequently shoot them out of their forward B and then they'll automatically grab the ledge, but they counter the up B timing mixup that a lot of Falcos do after you show them that you do rising nair to counter their forward B/immediate double jump. You can also just edgehog if they start going for sweetspots and then do stadard ledge hop bair nonsense.

 

[Rian]

Yeah i'll try to slow down its weird tho because my falco is much better then my fox even tho my tech skill is way better with fox lol. Idk i just might be messed up because 90% of my practice is with my best friend who is The midwest's best zelda.

Falco's moves leave more thought in them, what I'm trying to say is you can actually think WHILE acting. You can put your D-air out later while SHFFL-ing, or immediatly when you just SH-ed. So you shouldn't slow your moves down, you should time them better. Falco isn't a char where you can just use a button combination, you can vary it making shieldpressuring mindgame related too.

I've progressed faster lately by not playing for several days (this can be hard, especially when your as addicted to this game as me... i actually quit WoW ). The weird thing is that when you grab your controller then, you actually overthink a lot more, and my SHFFL-ing skills actually increased dramaticly over a 3 week period. Cause you are actually OVERTHINKING your L-cancels, your FF-ls and especially your ariels and lasers.

This subject was discussed by Mogwai for the laser game, where he explains that not lasering for a week or so increases your lasergame dramaticly cause of the way you look at it, best piece of advice I've ever had on here. It gives you a true understanding of when to, and more importantly when TO NOT laser.

For my aerials I always use A, except for D-air and the jumped shine -> jump -> B-air/D-air where I use the C-stick cause I jump out of the jumped shine with my analog-stick. F-air is a move I almost NEVER use, and almost always is a finger slip when I pop it out.

This is just IMHO, have no idea if other people here have the same experience with this?

 

[Batmansince1939]

Could anyone tell me what to do and percentages for some falco combos?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

shine

jump

dair/nair/bair

shine

dair

forward smash

 

[brg]

Could anyone tell me what to do and percentages for some falco combos?

its ez mang u jus go

pew pew pew bam cling bam cling bam pew pew pew bam

then cling cling bam cling pew pew BOOM

 

[TresChikon]

Funny thing is that I actually understood that. Multiclinging is great

 

[Blunted_object10]

Hey need help against aggressive Foxes (such as Eggz) and how to approach against them when they shine/ laser camp. Any advice?

 

[luno]

noob question, but. i can shine bair really fast like 50% of the time. the other 50% i turn around in my shine and do a late fair which misses. how do i combat this?

 

[Lovage]

aggressive foxes...laser camping...hmmmmm

 

[x After Dawn x]

noob question, but. i can shine bair really fast like 50% of the time. the other 50% i turn around in my shine and do a late fair which misses. how do i combat this?

uh don't shine turn?

 

[Mogwai]

M.Go, your advice thread is whack cause u r never on.

salrite tho, i gotchu

*does mango head bob*

Hey need help against aggressive Foxes (such as Eggz) and how to approach against them when they shine/ laser camp. Any advice?

when Fox is all up on your nuts, you gotta use lasers to slow him down and let yourself get the jump on the approach. your only alternative is to try throwing utilts out there to beat his nair approaches, but this is hardly reliable against solid aggression.

laser camping on the other hand is easy to deal with. shoot back. when one of your lasers hits, you just start closing the space with lasers which lets you control how Fox can move which in turn lets you **** him.

noob question, but. i can shine bair really fast like 50% of the time. the other 50% i turn around in my shine and do a late fair which misses. how do i combat this?

don't shine turn as it fux with the timing. the far and away most popular way to shine bair is:

down + b to shine
up to jump
c-stick back to bair

this can be done very very quickly and keeps your control stick in the vertical line to minimize the chance of shine turning accidentally.

shine-turn bair is actually sexy as hell, but I find it too awkward to pull off most of the time.

 

[MegaFEAR]

Lol mango talks like hes texting all the time

 

[soap]

shine turn bair, u just wait half a sec

just like shine spike turn jump regrab with fox

 

[Filthee]

Shine OoS timing is tricky, but it's usually after their shine since most people delay between the shine and their next aerial.

speaking of this, ive noticed that there is a lag after i shine so i cant immediately do an ariel after shining someone, but ive seen in tourny play, zhu's video's, etc. that they will shine and immediately dair someone, its kinda a scrub question, but how do i fix this?

to anyone that can answer, i appreciate it a lot

 

[Mogwai]

There are 2 types of delay possible here and it's most likely both.

1. shining on the ground means that you can't aerial until your character actually becomes airborne (frame 6) so that's a 5 frame delay.

2. when your shine hits someone it generates hitlag (5 frames) so that's also a 5 frame delay.

Which means that if you shine someone on the ground, you can't aerial them until 10 frames later (~0.17 seconds).

When you see players do a quick shine -> bair/dair, they are always aerial before shining so that only #2 happens (which isn't really an issue anyway since the opponent is in hitlag as well). So basically, #2 only affects whether you time pressing jump correctly, while #1 can cause a real delay in how long after the shine your aerial can hit them.

 

[Filthee]

thanks a bunch, one more thing if you dont mind: ive noticed when im edge guarding people and they are below me and i try to let go of the edge and do a quick dair that i end up falling to far and die, while i have seen again in many falco videos and tourney play that they pull this off what seems like quite often, what am i doing wrong? am i just being a moron and not doin my up+b quick enough? from your above post im assuming it has somthing to do with hitlag as well. anyway, thanks again for your advice, these tips in this thread have gotten me to **** mode against my friends

 

[TresChikon]

Don't fastfall?

I didn't know you could survive it anyhow.

Just edgehop it, works well for me

 

[soap]

u can drop off bair and make it back

 

[Filthee]

Don't fastfall?

I didn't know you could survive it anyhow.

Just edgehop it, works well for me

watch happy feet 4, zhu does it multiple times, and it is god like.

 

[wool]

What he does is when you're on the edge, hit down on the left stick, JUMP and immediately hit down on the c-stick.
You won't die and you can dair them.

 

[`DNS`]

mogwai answered that question too well
anyway, when doing shine->aerial try and get the timing down, and it works much better in the air than the ground

question though: for shine bair couldn't you shine, hit up on the CSTICK and roll it to the side for the bair?
i use the analog stick but i'm just wondering

 

[PB&J]

agressive fox's ..just cc shine every mve they do from 0-40 and try slowing down u play..and remember..dair beats out fox's nair approach

mango suks for not posting by the way but thats what we do in the south against fox's like eggz(aggressive)

 

[Blunted_object10]

Alright I think I have a better understanding on how to deal with aggressive foxes now. Thanks guys! =D

 

[soap]

pb n j what is going on in your sig?

and im not talking about m2k

 

[DtJ Jungle]

its like the grab hitbox stayed...behind him after the wd...i dont get it.

 

[TresChikon]

It's Fox with weegee's WD

 

[voorhese]

yay MaNg0 im picking up falco

(fox/falco) do you guys notice like a timing difference that carried over, like if you played with one of them, then the others timing would be off for a game or 2, then fine then say you practiced a day with falco, then your fox would be off for a while?

also to fix this is would it be a good idea to just alternate between fox/falco everymatch i am practicing, so i can switch between them often, i think the reason its awkward is because fox/ falco has similar hand movements, unlike say sheik/fox ?

 

[JPOBS]

its cuz fox has a faster short hop which makes pretty much everything harder with fox. jc grabs, wavedash, jc shine, anything that requires a jump is a little harder with fox cuz it needs to be faster

that being said, when u first start out it can throw you off for a bit but after you just get better at the game, you're able to switch between the two seemlessly.

 

[voorhese]

its cuz fox has a faster short hop which makes pretty much everything harder with fox. jc grabs, wavedash, jc shine, anything that requires a jump is a little harder with fox cuz it needs to be faster

that being said, when u first start out it can throw you off for a bit but after you just get better at the game, you're able to switch between the two seemlessly.

well ive been playing for for awhile, im experimenting with falco, its not that fox is harder, its that he is harder AFTER i play falco for a little bit, it seems like you said when i WD and stuff i can see a few extra frames of fox jumping than im used to seeing

edit: so far what i see from pillaring is that 4 dair->shine's makes the opponent able to move right away, and ive tried 3 dair -> shine, then 1 dair->utilt, and then i can dair-> shine again, or i can just rotate 1dairshine,1dairutilt

if i shine, then double jump ->ff dair, is that able to pillar, because its hard to do the normal dair shine wd, and then dair again after they hit a panel, so if im under a panel, i will shine double jump ff dair? or full hop ff dair would prolly work better?
is this about accurate?

 

[Mogwai]

thanks a bunch, one more thing if you dont mind: ive noticed when im edge guarding people and they are below me and i try to let go of the edge and do a quick dair that i end up falling to far and die, while i have seen again in many falco videos and tourney play that they pull this off what seems like quite often, what am i doing wrong? am i just being a moron and not doin my up+b quick enough? from your above post im assuming it has somthing to do with hitlag as well. anyway, thanks again for your advice, these tips in this thread have gotten me to **** mode against my friends

probably doesn't have anything to do with hitlag honestly

for this I just find it most useful to know how low you can go and still be able to firebird back to the stage, so I just let myself drop that low and try to up B back. trying to up b immediately can screw you over cause you might still be in your dair and in that case, you typically have to wait for yourself to recognize that you missed the up B and then hit B again, which can take awhile and cause you to die. If instead, you just wait until the lowest point you can recover from, then if you're still in your dair, you were dead anyway.

so if you know the spacing to just barely recover and you're still dying then it's 1 of 2 things.

1. starting the dair too late
2. fast falling

agressive fox's ..just cc shine every mve they do from 0-40 and try slowing down u play..and remember..dair beats out fox's nair approach

mango suks for not posting by the way but thats what we do in the south against fox's like eggz(aggressive)

this is good until they start using their dair, which counters CCing. I would also never advocate using dair to fight Fox's nair unless you're clearly above them, in which case, it begs the question "why the hell was Fox trying to nair you?"

and yea, Mango is whack for having a thread and not posting in it, but w/e, no one notices my thread and I don't mind using this for general Q & A.

 

[voorhese]

i need help with lasers, it looks to me like people, shl with falco on a panel, then drop through to another laser, but that seems to slow for me, even if i do the laser, and spam down on the control stick, i dont fall through for awhile, so i dont think this is how the fast lasers are done on the platforms, are they done by running off a panel instead?

 

[Mogwai]

most people call them platforms, not panels.

Phanna has a good video on seeing the different ways to drop through a platform:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMxgGtMLEfw&feature=player_profilepage