JPOBS
Smash Hero
someone tell me how to do the lightshield marf edgeguard properly plz <3
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Mangos Falco Advice
- Thread starter MaNg0
- Start date
Rannskita
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2008
- Messages
- 237
roll to the edge. lightsheild. if marth attempts a sweet spot he'll hit the stageside of your sheild and you autohog. i usually move my lightshield down and offstage, but apparently you dont need to. im not sure if you can fast fall the autohog like you can wavedash>edgehog
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Exactly like Rannskita said, however if you wish to perform it more reliably, you need DI inputs.
Tilting the C-stick towards the ledge will give you the ASDI frames necessary to drop off.
ASDI alone is good for Marths who don't know how/can't deal with the Marth killer.
However, for those Marths who can perfectly sweetspot, you still need SDI inputs. During the hitlag from Marth's up+B, you need to wiggle the the control stick at the bottom diagonal corner. You can quarter-circle SDI, but the wiggling method works best as suggest by Magus himself.
With that you should be able to get the Marth killer pretty consistently.
And yes, FFing helps alot, especially for floaties.
Tilting the C-stick towards the ledge will give you the ASDI frames necessary to drop off.
ASDI alone is good for Marths who don't know how/can't deal with the Marth killer.
However, for those Marths who can perfectly sweetspot, you still need SDI inputs. During the hitlag from Marth's up+B, you need to wiggle the the control stick at the bottom diagonal corner. You can quarter-circle SDI, but the wiggling method works best as suggest by Magus himself.
With that you should be able to get the Marth killer pretty consistently.
And yes, FFing helps alot, especially for floaties.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
so wait, i've been doing all of the normal stff, roll to edge, lightshield, tilt.
but i was unsuccessful in autohogging the ledge. You're telling me its more to it than it seems and i have to do all the SDI inputs as well?
or what i mean is, is it "technically" possible to do without the DI inputs or are the di's mandatory.
but i was unsuccessful in autohogging the ledge. You're telling me its more to it than it seems and i have to do all the SDI inputs as well?
or what i mean is, is it "technically" possible to do without the DI inputs or are the di's mandatory.
Fortress | Sveet
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i don't know where tres got all of that, honestly.
you fall off because marth's sword hitting your shield combined with the extra slippyness of the light shield. if you were on the right edge, you have to angle the shield down and right. if you do it right, you will slip off to the edge when an attack hits your shield. be careful if marth saves his jump and nairs your shield because the first hit will slide you off the edge and into the second hit, possibly stage spiking.
you fall off because marth's sword hitting your shield combined with the extra slippyness of the light shield. if you were on the right edge, you have to angle the shield down and right. if you do it right, you will slip off to the edge when an attack hits your shield. be careful if marth saves his jump and nairs your shield because the first hit will slide you off the edge and into the second hit, possibly stage spiking.
Smoke and smash
Smash Journeyman
This technique is the ****. Learn it, because anything falco has against marth is is valuable.
TresChikon
Smash Lord
So either I'm dumping out complete BS or I read somewhere that SDI and ASDI is possible in the shield.
I dunno, feel free to disprove me.
I dunno, feel free to disprove me.
`DNS`
Smash Lord
That's a goood quality video..
AvengerAngel
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, Ryu's vids usually have great quality
Any advice? Mango where u at? xP
Any advice? Mango where u at? xP
teehee im pretty sure this works for lolz
see marf recovering, dash attack so that the ledge stops you, light shield, angle it down and towards the endge then when the up b hits you, dair. the way the mechanics work (for fox and marth anyway) is that this will hit you off the edge. so you can do funny things.
see marf recovering, dash attack so that the ledge stops you, light shield, angle it down and towards the endge then when the up b hits you, dair. the way the mechanics work (for fox and marth anyway) is that this will hit you off the edge. so you can do funny things.
Fortress | Sveet
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yea it does :D you got that from m2k vs qdvs
yeah its really funny to do with other characters.
`DNS`
Smash Lord
well I'm not claiming to be good so you probably shouldn't listen to me but..
work on your teamwork, you seem to hit the puff around a bit lol
if you mean specific to puff idk because i never really do teams anyway
also at the end of the second video when your teammate died.. it's better for you to let him take your life, assuming that was allowed in a tourney.. it's much easier having 2v2
TresChikon
Smash Lord
My bad. Sorries
AvengerAngel
Smash Journeyman
Yeah we know, but he kinda gave up after the suicide so he just left me alone lolz
_wzrd
Smash Journeyman
soap
Smash Hero
i had some korean mango curry tonite
****ing delicious
****ing delicious
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Your sig is dumb.
Batmansince1939
Smash Journeyman
Hey mango I just picked up falco and have kinda alot of questions
first which match-ups would he do better against then a peach would?
two when should I decided to use a nair or dair?
How the heck do ppl throw up and get combo's? every time i throw i miss and i constastly try it and will try different attacks as well.....i have tried shining bair nair i just don't see how with falco throwing up works?
Any advice on double lasers off edge?
and what button do you use to short hop out of shine? I am trying to master the short hop drill shine to put preasure on ppl's shields but it like i just do it to slow?
oh and what are the percents for combo's? Like pillaring wise? b/c I mean I got the gay pillars going like i can shine jump out of shine and repeat on a fox and then fsmash him, and then i also got the gay pillar which if you watched a flaco video and saw someone pillar you would just be like dair shine and repeat but mine looks ugly and ppl can get out of it? like I want solid things that ppl can't get out of with falco....
P.S: my falco is in the making to be my secondary so I don't really need to learn the charcter matchs ups that peach(my main) would have a better time against in less falco has some sweet combo on that character ^^
first which match-ups would he do better against then a peach would?
two when should I decided to use a nair or dair?
How the heck do ppl throw up and get combo's? every time i throw i miss and i constastly try it and will try different attacks as well.....i have tried shining bair nair i just don't see how with falco throwing up works?
Any advice on double lasers off edge?
and what button do you use to short hop out of shine? I am trying to master the short hop drill shine to put preasure on ppl's shields but it like i just do it to slow?
oh and what are the percents for combo's? Like pillaring wise? b/c I mean I got the gay pillars going like i can shine jump out of shine and repeat on a fox and then fsmash him, and then i also got the gay pillar which if you watched a flaco video and saw someone pillar you would just be like dair shine and repeat but mine looks ugly and ppl can get out of it? like I want solid things that ppl can't get out of with falco....
P.S: my falco is in the making to be my secondary so I don't really need to learn the charcter matchs ups that peach(my main) would have a better time against in less falco has some sweet combo on that character ^^
blast_ssbb
Smash Ace
ill help u since mango hasnt been around in a while 
matchups- falcos like a double edged sword, hes a really strong character but if ur inexperienced, lack of DI mixed wit his sub par recovery will get u beaten in any matchup, id have to say i cant think of a char off the top of my head that cant gimp falco. with that in mind once u've played with him alot id have to say he prob does better against other spacies than peach and maybe shiek and marth depending at how good u are at not getting gimped. HE also has a MUCH easier time against capt falcon than peach does, lasers control him pretty well. but falco at best goes even or 60/40 or 40/60 in these matchups so dont expect to **** them, he just has a much easier time controlling space than peach and apart from gimps and chaingrabs doesnt really have any automatic deaths like she does (shine>upsmash(fox), dthrow>upair/knee(shiek, capt))
d-air vs n-air was answered on the very first page of this thread u should read at least the first page.
up-throw depending on the char and percent leaves them in certain place, its a matter of learning where they'll be after the up-throw and following up, usually initiating a dash and full-jumping with a b-air or d-air or n-air will get u guaranteed combos but if u can read certain inputs like they're DI and whether they will jump or not, it allows u to go for more high risk/high reward maneuvers that have a chance of missing but lead to big combos.
do u mean double laser to edgeguard like shiz or double laser to come up from the ledge? eitherway wat u need to learn to do is jump and press B rapidly while maneuvering wit the stick, once ur lasering u can maneuver wherever u like and u wont phantasm as long as u keep lasering. on the ledge i press DOWN, UP, B, FORWARD (HOLD), B. get used to the timing and practice. to edgeguard i do: RUN OFF, Y, B, BACK(HOLD) B.
u should use whatever button ur more comfortable with, i use Y but im sure if everyone on this thread answered ud get some with Y and some with X. the important part about pillaring is to delay ur D-air or n-air until right b4 u hit the ground, the earlier u do it, the more frames they have between the time your d-air hit their shield and the time ur shine comes out to escape. effective pillaring comes from changing the timing in your d-air and mixing up your d-air and n-air. there is no way u can avoid getting punished unless you're like shiz and can just run upto ppl and do 7 shines on their shield and thats really hard :D.just alternate between proper spacing and altering your timing.
one thing i forgot to mention on that point is dont always follow up with shine. once ppl start expecting it its better to mix it up with jab/uptilt/grab/ another d-air/n-air. falco is by no means invincible while pillaring you have to pillar smart and correctly to actually pressure.
on spacies and capt shine-dair is guaranteed till the high 40s early 50s at which point u should go into up-airs or bairs or try to get them off the stage to edgeguard. against most other ppl at 0-10% u can shine and d-air but they can hit u back b4 ur next shine so its better to not go for it till about 30-40% im talking about marth/puff/peach/samus/. shiek is somewhere in the middle of that, less comboable than first group but more than second group.
In my personal experience its MUCH better to wavedash outta of ur shine towards your target and follow up, with aerials rather than to just jump outta of ur shine. practice that and you'll see its better.
falco makes a good secondary when u can play him like hes your main, hes enough of a mainstream char that you cant expect to pull him out as a surprise character so you have to have a really really good falco to beat someone who is playing a high tier and is at least even or better than you. dont expect falco to be easy road cuz hes not.
matchups- falcos like a double edged sword, hes a really strong character but if ur inexperienced, lack of DI mixed wit his sub par recovery will get u beaten in any matchup, id have to say i cant think of a char off the top of my head that cant gimp falco. with that in mind once u've played with him alot id have to say he prob does better against other spacies than peach and maybe shiek and marth depending at how good u are at not getting gimped. HE also has a MUCH easier time against capt falcon than peach does, lasers control him pretty well. but falco at best goes even or 60/40 or 40/60 in these matchups so dont expect to **** them, he just has a much easier time controlling space than peach and apart from gimps and chaingrabs doesnt really have any automatic deaths like she does (shine>upsmash(fox), dthrow>upair/knee(shiek, capt))
d-air vs n-air was answered on the very first page of this thread u should read at least the first page.
up-throw depending on the char and percent leaves them in certain place, its a matter of learning where they'll be after the up-throw and following up, usually initiating a dash and full-jumping with a b-air or d-air or n-air will get u guaranteed combos but if u can read certain inputs like they're DI and whether they will jump or not, it allows u to go for more high risk/high reward maneuvers that have a chance of missing but lead to big combos.
do u mean double laser to edgeguard like shiz or double laser to come up from the ledge? eitherway wat u need to learn to do is jump and press B rapidly while maneuvering wit the stick, once ur lasering u can maneuver wherever u like and u wont phantasm as long as u keep lasering. on the ledge i press DOWN, UP, B, FORWARD (HOLD), B. get used to the timing and practice. to edgeguard i do: RUN OFF, Y, B, BACK(HOLD) B.
u should use whatever button ur more comfortable with, i use Y but im sure if everyone on this thread answered ud get some with Y and some with X. the important part about pillaring is to delay ur D-air or n-air until right b4 u hit the ground, the earlier u do it, the more frames they have between the time your d-air hit their shield and the time ur shine comes out to escape. effective pillaring comes from changing the timing in your d-air and mixing up your d-air and n-air. there is no way u can avoid getting punished unless you're like shiz and can just run upto ppl and do 7 shines on their shield and thats really hard :D.just alternate between proper spacing and altering your timing.
one thing i forgot to mention on that point is dont always follow up with shine. once ppl start expecting it its better to mix it up with jab/uptilt/grab/ another d-air/n-air. falco is by no means invincible while pillaring you have to pillar smart and correctly to actually pressure.
on spacies and capt shine-dair is guaranteed till the high 40s early 50s at which point u should go into up-airs or bairs or try to get them off the stage to edgeguard. against most other ppl at 0-10% u can shine and d-air but they can hit u back b4 ur next shine so its better to not go for it till about 30-40% im talking about marth/puff/peach/samus/. shiek is somewhere in the middle of that, less comboable than first group but more than second group.
In my personal experience its MUCH better to wavedash outta of ur shine towards your target and follow up, with aerials rather than to just jump outta of ur shine. practice that and you'll see its better.
falco makes a good secondary when u can play him like hes your main, hes enough of a mainstream char that you cant expect to pull him out as a surprise character so you have to have a really really good falco to beat someone who is playing a high tier and is at least even or better than you. dont expect falco to be easy road cuz hes not.
Batmansince1939
Smash Journeyman
tyvm and no trust i don't think he is easy i mean shiek has always been my second and she compliments peachs counter very well it is just i play falco everyday with a friend who is learning cf and i just keep noticing my falco getting better and better and from this improvement know that soon he will be good enough to feel comfortable with him in tournies or mm more then shiek at least never then peach she is the best in the game =)
TresChikon
Smash Lord
It amuses dumb people. Like me.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
so, i find it pretty impossible to do the marth killer.
I've tried everything.
Titlting it downwards and away from the ledge (which m pretty sure doesnt work because when he hits the sheild i just fall off the stage because im holding away and so it doesnt register a edgegrab)
and i've tried tilting it stright down but its not working
also, out of curiosity, does it only work when they go for sweet spots? like if he b-ups early on purpose does it just flat out not work?
tf is wrong with me
I've tried everything.
Titlting it downwards and away from the ledge (which m pretty sure doesnt work because when he hits the sheild i just fall off the stage because im holding away and so it doesnt register a edgegrab)
and i've tried tilting it stright down but its not working
also, out of curiosity, does it only work when they go for sweet spots? like if he b-ups early on purpose does it just flat out not work?
tf is wrong with me
everlasting yayuhzz
Smash Champion
You mean lightshield edgeguard? lolso, i find it pretty impossible to do the marth killer.
I've tried everything.
Titlting it downwards and away from the ledge (which m pretty sure doesnt work because when he hits the sheild i just fall off the stage because im holding away and so it doesnt register a edgegrab)
and i've tried tilting it stright down but its not working
also, out of curiosity, does it only work when they go for sweet spots? like if he b-ups early on purpose does it just flat out not work?
tf is wrong with me
Just roll, and while you're rolling towards the edge with your back turned, hold down Z. Then tilt your shield backwards. When he hits you, it will send you back onto the edge. This is where you let go of back so you just grab the edge and don't go tumbling down. As long as you are hit while holding your shield backwards, you will fall off the edge. It doesn't matter what angle he comes from.
Crude paint demonstration:
just tilt back and then push towards the stage when the shield gets hit. I just fake it most of the time anyway, most Marf's try to get around it and you can just jump out of your shield early and **** their up B onto stage or airdodge.so, i find it pretty impossible to do the marth killer.
I've tried everything.
Titlting it downwards and away from the ledge (which m pretty sure doesnt work because when he hits the sheild i just fall off the stage because im holding away and so it doesnt register a edgegrab)
and i've tried tilting it stright down but its not working
also, out of curiosity, does it only work when they go for sweet spots? like if he b-ups early on purpose does it just flat out not work?
tf is wrong with me
JPOBS
Smash Hero
alright, thanks guys, i'll try it more until i get it perfect.
Hi mango, i am noob from barcelona :D
I have questions for u if u can,
You use c-stick for fair's?
I don't understand your spacing against marth(m2k) and sheik(m2k).
Some advice for play your play style?
how you do for play whit this amazing spacing?xD
Sorry for my bad english t.t and thanks in advance
I have questions for u if u can,
You use c-stick for fair's?
I don't understand your spacing against marth(m2k) and sheik(m2k).
Some advice for play your play style?
how you do for play whit this amazing spacing?xD
Sorry for my bad english t.t and thanks in advance
AvengerAngel
Smash Journeyman
Mangooooo pls? :*
Batmansince1939
Smash Journeyman
m,ango you don't use the cstick for down airs or bairs?
blast_ssbb
Smash Ace
idk if u guys have a hard time reading or wat....
avengerangel- first off u should go into mogwai's thread and read his section on teams on the first page, you seem to not understand the fundamentals of teams.
It seems like multiple times you would prefer to combo or go for a kill than help your partner, watch the first match and you'll see at the beginning a perfect example of sumthing that happened the whole time, jigglypuff is getting abused by shiek while ur pressuring the crap outta falcon, sure it looks pretty but jiggs is a char that thrives on supporting in teams not one that can just fight 1v1 in a corner, she needs lots of space to 1v1 chars like shiek.
IN MY OPINION its never a good trade to let them destroy ur partner while u destroy their partner, even if u manage to get the kill and come save your partner your partner will prob be in killing percent by the time u get over there. you have to most disruptive projectile in the game, learn to hit your partners opponent often and effectively.
aside from waking him up from rests and ONE grab that u held for an attempted rest, you seemed to not pay attention to your partner AT ALL. tech chasing, combos, edgeguards it seemed like ya were played 2v1v1 wit a mutual agreement to not hit each other. this is not entirely your fault but its sumthing you need to practice to be a better teams player.
almost everything i just said is paraphrasing mogwai's thread. he puts everything alot better. i dont agree with his camp 100% of the time philosophy but when it comes to everything else he's got his info pretty spot on. GO READ HIS THREAD NOW. hehe :D
Oh srry i wanted to say bair's , fairs space wtf, ok , but I already knew that "topic phrase", however that is good thinking :D, then i need to work more my space ... some advice?:O
soap
Smash Hero
so what if mango doesnt cstick?
shiz does
and shiz is way better
lol
shiz does
and shiz is way better
lol
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
Mango, who wins in Falco vs Puff at a high level?
I use A for all my fairs except for aerial shine -> fair.