Mangos Falco Advice

[Mogwai]

no one likes taking that 60, but the more you see that as your punishment for messing up, the more motivated you'll be not to mess up. don't change your approach to the game based on a technical limitation because technical consistency comes with time whereas bad habits die hard.

eh, just sorta walk up there and bait him into jumping up and react accordingly. if he just keeps double jump stalling, you can slip a dsmash/dair/edgehog in there, but usually the marth just wants to pop up onto stage and grab you so just watch for it and be ready to shield if he aerials or shine -> grab if he just wavelands onto the stage into grab/shieldgrab.

 

[Smoke and smash]

If marth camps the ledge. Just stay in the middle area of the level and shl. Most people won't be able power shield the lasers. Use the shl to setup a grab or a shffl'ed nair shine. If you're feeling saucy approach with shl into a f-tilt/nair shine/grab. Also remember to z-shield recovering marths and aim your shield down and towards the ledge, this will give you free ledge-hopped aerials or potentially a stock.

 

[Sox]

Good stuff. I'll definitely work on my game and try to add the stuff you told me. Too bad you live in the farthest town from me in CT, i'd like play your falco and see what else i can add to my game.

 

[blast_ssbb]

thnx mogwai i think it does have its different advantages, but they just fit my playstyle better so its hard to explain, ill keep experimenting wit my training partners and ill let ya know if i change my mind :D. also i have nothing against pokefloats i actually like that stage almost as much i just think if u take a shiek or capt or jiggs there except for double shines on jiggs ur not gaining much of an advantage unless ur opponent is uncomfortable there. that was the point i was trying to get across.

random question: ive been fighting capt falcons for a LONG time, but just recently ive hit this very frustating wall and i dont understand why suddenly its getting so difficult. 1st off ima point off that my training partner is mainly warriorknight who if u dont know who he is go youtube his bowser cuz he's amazingly good. he mained falcon b4 bowser so his falcon is pretty insane. now the things i have problems with.

a) after 40% even wit every type of DI raptor boosts, and stomps lead to knees, and after about 80 EVERYTHING leads into knees.... does anyone else get annoyed by that?

b) even though i think falco's priority is a little strong at times, im a lil annoyed how falcons nairs beat everything i throw out except uptilts, and since im usually lasering its hard for me to be facing the other way. same for his upair it always beats or trades wit my dair. any suggestions on 1) how to get off low platforms life bf,ps, and dreamland without getting ***** by upair and 2) how to stop nairs that go over lasers or running powershields into nairs? ive tried just turning around and uptilting on reaction but he mixes it up wit knees and its just a struggle when im against the edge.

3) my last complaint theres really nothing that can be done about. why can he live till like 180% wit good DI >.>. this super easy match b4 has turned into such a headache at higher levels.

haha i really just wanted to complain moar than anything but any help wit the stuff in point B) would be appreciated.

 

[JPOBS]

captain falcon literally combos moveset > knee. just a fact you have to deal with

nair and upair have god range u have to outspace them. im pretty sure platform drop to dair beats his upair.

edgeguarding him is easy tho. jus hug the ledge and keep ledgehop bairing him till he feel like dieing.

 

[Rubyiris]

lasers > falcon

 

[Smoke and smash]

I don't know why falcon annoys you so much. A falcon has to put that work in to out combo falco. Falco just 0-deaths/0-near death falcon so easily and combos much easier over-all. So what his nair goes over your laser? Your shl right, just throw out a nair yourself, you should have enough time unless your just standing and lasering. Falcon can live a long time I will admit. Try to get that cheap spike in before that happens, or my super secret tech...up B will kill even heavy set lard ***** a lot of the time. Laser down smash, Laser forward smash is good for ko's too. And he's so easy to ledge guard man. If falcon is off the stage and trying to recover, he should never ever be getting back. It's just too easy. Bairs, dairs, down smash, forward smash, is plenty of options to never let a falcon back.

 

[blast_ssbb]

ok well warriorknight has godly DI i mean like, he's DJ nintendos team partner so there DI is extremely similiar therefore theres rarely a situation where he even has to upB onto the stage, hes also a really defensive player hes not aggro happy and he can moar than see and react to random smashes and then shield grab u and tech chase u for an hour.

I obviously take advantage when hes off the stage, thats not even close to my problem even though hes rarely off the stage b4 160%. and i get my guaranteed combos when i land a shine at low percents.

drop dair rarely beats his upair unless hes sh it under the platform which is rarely the case, he usually comes at an angle at which the upair covers most of the platform and if u try to Dair u just get sent off the stage while he gets to tech it and edgeguard. for now im resorting to just jumping over it and waiting for an opening to get back on the floor.

anyone that says laser >> falcon needs to play a really good falcon. falcons have become extremely adaptable and the second there over ur lasers ur blocking to avoid eating a knee outta the air. also i mentioned that he short hops over anything thats not a max height shl and he running power shields ALOT which is really annoying. u cant just spam lasers against good players and expect it to work D: unfortunately .

I know falco combos the balls off of falcon, but imo after 50-60-ish percent his are better because they lead into knees and into easy edge guards (light knee tap into up-air anyone?) our combos lead into easily DI'able b-airs, that dont send him anywhere. i guess even mango cant really help me cuz jeff has bad DI :D haha <3 west coast but if theres anything im missing mango help me!

idk i guess i just dont want to lose to scar next time i face him in tourney :D

 

[JPOBS]

jeff doesnt have bad di XD

but if he literally isnt off the stage till 160, i dotn care if you're fighting the ungodly love child of magus and djnintendo, you're doing it wrong.

but yea, lasers wont shut good falcons down completely cuz people adapt well and running powershield is pretty gay

i dunno, post vids and we can helps moar.

 

[blast_ssbb]

k ill make him record next time we play :D. maybe later in the week

 

[AvengerAngel]

Recently I've been having the same issues vs. a Falcon that uses the platforms and the jumps very well to dodge my lasers x(
I dunno if he even got the timing down not to get gayed by the utilt or if I'm doing it wrong, but I usually get hit by Nairs/knees while I'm trying to defend my *** up-tilting like a mofo x(

 

[Foxy]

Japes is just random and silly. Illusion tricks are cute, but they're not really useful vs. people who know what they're doing, and that's the only thing that's unique to Japes. ultimately, it doesn't provide any truly useful advantages that you wouldn't get from say Dreamland or Kongo Jungle, and in the meantime, you have to deal with the fact that you're stuck in a game of Russian Roulette with your opponent in who's gonna get ****ed by Klap Trap first.

I got Scaaaar to 1 stock on Japes with a suicide in tourney, I don't really play on it either.

The "cute" illusion tricks worked just fine, especially against a character like Falcon that plays a pressure game. Camp lasers on a far platform, if he jumps in with an aerial, wavedash back onto the edge, illusion to safety. The ledge invulnerability makes it almost always safe. And if he jumped back and is freaking already waiting for you there because he knows it's coming, well, my advice would be to not be an idiot and pay attention.

Otherwise illusion is an excellent tool to escape pressure when playing on JJ.

I also find it sets up for a lot of quickly and unexpectedly spaced bairs - for example, if you're recovering and your opponent is trying to use a move on the stage to poke you off, you can illusion under to the main platform and very quickly ledgehop a bair that will almost always hit your edgeguarder, who is likely trying to get over to where you are to punish the illusion (it's a pretty common instinct). You can also make it a dair for a surprise kill. And say you're on the main platform's center with an opponent in front of you - if they're in shield, you can do some tricky shield pressure and probably land a hit if you laser -> illusion to platform edge -> ledgehop bair. Their instincts, again, will probably screw them up as you place some aerials in spots that they aren't used to dealing with.

As for recovery, it gives you a couple more options, especially if coming from the side. If your opponent's already there to edgeguard, you're obviously dead anyways, you do know that you're playing Falco. But if they're on their way over, quickly illusion to the far edge, and then drop under and illusion to the main edge. Not only does the two illusions and movement of positions phase out your opponent, but the ledge invulnerability from the first edge makes the second one much safer.

NO, it's not one of his best stages, but YES, he can do more "cute" yet useful techniques on the stage than other characters.

I personally think it's a great stage to learn and counterpick appropriately at players who are even skill with you or worse, or if you want to try a risky shot at taking a match off a better player. Clearly, though, do not CP is against great players who have a gimp-heavy style and probably know how to abuse it on JJ.

also loliduno wat im talkn bout i not pro

 

[stingers]

get out of my thread, foxy

 

[Smoke and smash]

ok well warriorknight has godly DI i mean like, he's DJ nintendos team partner so there DI is extremely similiar therefore theres rarely a situation where he even has to upB onto the stage, hes also a really defensive player hes not aggro happy and he can moar than see and react to random smashes and then shield grab u and tech chase u for an hour.

I obviously take advantage when hes off the stage, thats not even close to my problem even though hes rarely off the stage b4 160%. and i get my guaranteed combos when i land a shine at low percents.

drop dair rarely beats his upair unless hes sh it under the platform which is rarely the case, he usually comes at an angle at which the upair covers most of the platform and if u try to Dair u just get sent off the stage while he gets to tech it and edgeguard. for now im resorting to just jumping over it and waiting for an opening to get back on the floor.

anyone that says laser >> falcon needs to play a really good falcon. falcons have become extremely adaptable and the second there over ur lasers ur blocking to avoid eating a knee outta the air. also i mentioned that he short hops over anything thats not a max height shl and he running power shields ALOT which is really annoying. u cant just spam lasers against good players and expect it to work D: unfortunately .

I know falco combos the balls off of falcon, but imo after 50-60-ish percent his are better because they lead into knees and into easy edge guards (light knee tap into up-air anyone?) our combos lead into easily DI'able b-airs, that dont send him anywhere. i guess even mango cant really help me cuz jeff has bad DI :D haha <3 west coast but if theres anything im missing mango help me!

idk i guess i just dont want to lose to scar next time i face him in tourney :D

You need help against scar...dude I NEED help against cort, like real bad. Marth and peach tips people? Oh and I wasn't talking about 'random" smashes obviously. I was talking about against a recovering falcon...in which case they actually work lol.

 

[Foxy]

get out of my thread, foxy

$200 Falco mm next time I see you

since the Falco advice thread is yours and all

 

[Moogled]

Mango's Falco Advice

 

[Mogwai]

I got Scaaaar to 1 stock on Japes with a suicide in tourney, I don't really play on it either.

The "cute" illusion tricks worked just fine, especially against a character like Falcon that plays a pressure game. Camp lasers on a far platform, if he jumps in with an aerial, wavedash back onto the edge, illusion to safety. The ledge invulnerability makes it almost always safe. And if he jumped back and is freaking already waiting for you there because he knows it's coming, well, my advice would be to not be an idiot and pay attention.

Otherwise illusion is an excellent tool to escape pressure when playing on JJ.

I also find it sets up for a lot of quickly and unexpectedly spaced bairs - for example, if you're recovering and your opponent is trying to use a move on the stage to poke you off, you can illusion under to the main platform and very quickly ledgehop a bair that will almost always hit your edgeguarder, who is likely trying to get over to where you are to punish the illusion (it's a pretty common instinct). You can also make it a dair for a surprise kill. And say you're on the main platform's center with an opponent in front of you - if they're in shield, you can do some tricky shield pressure and probably land a hit if you laser -> illusion to platform edge -> ledgehop bair. Their instincts, again, will probably screw them up as you place some aerials in spots that they aren't used to dealing with.

As for recovery, it gives you a couple more options, especially if coming from the side. If your opponent's already there to edgeguard, you're obviously dead anyways, you do know that you're playing Falco. But if they're on their way over, quickly illusion to the far edge, and then drop under and illusion to the main edge. Not only does the two illusions and movement of positions phase out your opponent, but the ledge invulnerability from the first edge makes the second one much safer.

NO, it's not one of his best stages, but YES, he can do more "cute" yet useful techniques on the stage than other characters.

I personally think it's a great stage to learn and counterpick appropriately at players who are even skill with you or worse, or if you want to try a risky shot at taking a match off a better player. Clearly, though, do not CP is against great players who have a gimp-heavy style and probably know how to abuse it on JJ.

also loliduno wat im talkn bout i not pro

*shrugs* suit yourself, I'm just saying that there are better options, you probably would've taken that game from Scar if you would've just taken him to floats and camped his balls off.

btw, don't use "got Scar to 1 stock" as a way to measure a counterpick's success. not only does the whole "zomg, I got him down to 1 stock!" part of it sounds scrubby, but Scar also absolutely blows on every stage that's not FD, BF, YS, DL64, or PS.

 

[Foxy]

*shrugs* suit yourself, I'm just saying that there are better options, you probably would've taken that game from Scar if you would've just taken him to floats and camped his balls off.

After learning Floats with Fox, it seems hard to believe that it's any good with Falco. Unlike Fox, Falco does not have the speed to run away and camp. But who knows, I've never tried it.

btw, don't use "got Scaar to 1 stock" as a way to measure a counterpick's success. not only does the whole "zomg, I got him down to 1 stock!" part of it sounds scrubby, but Scar also absolutely blows on every stage that's not FD, BF, YS, DL64, or PS.

I'm aware of this; it was more a response to the poster who mentioned that they wanted to beat him next time in tournament, highlighting that maybe it's a good counterpick against him because he clearly doesn't play well on it.

And it wasn't "zomg" at all, I did just as well on DL64 the first game. Maybe I should have known about Floats. =P

 

[BiN Breezy]

I just have like one question and it is going to sound mega dumb but like how do you L cancel Mango. LIke what I mean is I know people that spam the L or R button then I know people that just press it once.I use both but I want to see which one is more efficent. What do you use mango and what do you suggest. Others feel free to share what you do and advice.

 

[JPOBS]

theres people that spam the button? lol.

i press it once. whenever i do an aerial, i always assume im going to hit either a sheild or the person. since they have the same hitlag. and if i miss entirely, it still works e

but spamming L/R would probably be bad cuz what if the moment you land, you were in the motion of releasing the button from the previus spam attempt? then ur ****ed

 

[Rannskita]

i dont think anyone spams. timing it = works, spamming it = luck if it gets timed right, so why would you spam :\

 

[JPOBS]

spamming L would be like playing Russian roulette with a 2 chamber relvolver, and one of em is loaded :/

 

[Smoke and smash]

Lolololol. Z button= pro l cancel. Z for aerial and z again for cancel. Try it.

 

[soap]

z button is actually better logistically.

if u use L to lag cancel and u get hit out of your aerial as you were trying to l cancel u will likely miss your tech due to that stupid window.

i know this but i hate the z button that much that i still use L and just focus on hitting people cleanly.

 

[hungrybox]

mango you just gained some respect from me

i saw you call hungrybox gay for charging people for housing

good ****

faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack

it was my dad

stafu with this



btw I've been z-cancelling EVERYTHING since i started playing

with any character

its like the backbone of my playstyle

 

[TresChikon]

z button is actually better logistically.

if u use L to lag cancel and u get hit out of your aerial as you were trying to l cancel u will likely miss your tech due to that stupid window.

i know this but i hate the z button that much that i still use L and just focus on hitting people cleanly.

You can L-cancel and preserve your ability to tech by just pressing the L down slightly, as if you're light shielding, instead of pressing it all the way down till it 'clicks,' which is really just extraneous.

 

[Smoke and smash]

faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack

it was my dad

stafu with this



btw I've been z-cancelling EVERYTHING since i started playing

with any character

its like the backbone of my playstyle

I've been trying to incorporate it into my playstyle, but at the moment it still feels unnatural. I've been R canceling for far too long. But in the end, z canceling is more beneficial.

 

[TresChikon]

So are there any drawbacks whatsoever to Zcancel other than being awkward?

 

[Ryan-K]

jungle japes sucks. falco doesn't need to live vertically. like you can get random spikes i guess and laser camping is cool but there are much better counterpicks like rc corneria poke floats and if its legal, green greens.

if you can win on neutrals you can do anything. counterpicks imo should be like a last resort because its easy to prepare for them. the only thing that makes a cp a cp is your ability to shine on it unless you are fox or jiggs in which case you can wing it without knowing a thing lol

 

[wool]

I've been trying to incorporate it into my playstyle, but at the moment it still feels unnatural. I've been R canceling for far too long. But in the end, z canceling is more beneficial.

Why is it more beneficial.

And I love Jungle Japes as Falco BTW for the reasons you stated lol. Can get some cheap spike kills and you can laser camp. What more do you want.

 

[Smoke and smash]

Why is it more beneficial.

And I love Jungle Japes as Falco BTW for the reasons you stated lol. Can get some cheap spike kills and you can laser camp. What more do you want.

because I use the same button for two different purposes. Instead of using my index finger to R cancel, and my thumb to jump and c stick an aerial or nuetral A, I just use index for z twice to aerial and cancel it, and thumb to jump. makes for easier double short hopped fairs with marth for one thing. I don't have to move my thumb from jump (x button) to A/C stick, which lets my aerials come out as soon as I leave the ground if I want them to.

 

[Scar]

I got Scaaaar to 1 stock on Japes with a suicide in tourney, I don't really play on it either.

WHAT THE **** IS THIS ALL ABOUT

YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD ESCAPE MY NAMESEARCH

$100 MONEYMATCH

lulz jk

 

[Foxy]

WHAT THE **** IS THIS ALL ABOUT

YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD ESCAPE MY NAMESEARCH

$100 MONEYMATCH

lulz jk

GOD ****ING ****IT

I THOUGHT I HAD THAT COVERED

I just kneeeeeeew Mogwai wouldn't catch on...

but anyways, Scar, you know...










you mad

 

[PB&J]

mango ..u ready for disney world part 2

 

[BiN Breezy]

So basically Z canceling would be the best. And No spaming whatso ever. Like only use to spam for like when I do like a full hop bair and then another bair but I will stop that since everybody suggest it. Also I am going to try that Z cancel and it seems to work for Hbox so I will try espicially since I jump with control stick and I was told that so did he. Is that true Hbox?

 

[JPOBS]

because I use the same button for two different purposes. Instead of using my index finger to R cancel, and my thumb to jump and c stick an aerial or nuetral A, I just use index for z twice to aerial and cancel it, and thumb to jump. makes for easier double short hopped fairs with marth for one thing. I don't have to move my thumb from jump (x button) to A/C stick, which lets my aerials come out as soon as I leave the ground if I want them to.

it also has down sides though.

using Z to aerial makes double sh fairs easier i agree (i use A for this) BUT, using A or Z for all your aerials makes it MUCH harder to DI/space.

like, try doing retreating double sh fairs using only Z or A. good luck.
C stick is flat out better for all intents and purposes concerning aerials.

I guess the point about using Z to l-canel makes sense with the scenario of missing a tech etc becaus eof it makes sese tho.

So basically Z canceling would be the best. And No spaming whatso ever. Like only use to spam for like when I do like a full hop bair and then another bair but I will stop that since everybody suggest it. Also I am going to try that Z cancel and it seems to work for Hbox so I will try espicially since I jump with control stick and I was told that so did he. Is that true Hbox?

yea but lol, jumping with jiggs and jumping with falco are too different things.

i really dont think joystick jumping is beneficial to space animal game play, with the exception of a few ATs.
but i know some people like lovage use joystick jumps so meh >_>

 

[soap]

control stick jump is more beneficial for double jump aerial

for all characters

especially off the ledge

 

[Mogwai]

how do you figure?

 

[soap]

u want to bair/dair an illusion or firefox at the level of the ledge or a bit below. u need a frame perfect double jump aerial.

marth can also spike below the ledge and recover with frame perfect dj spike.

i have many more examples of onstage uses

control stick makes things crispy

 

[Mogwai]

but....... but..... no

I disagree, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. because by using x or y, you get to split the two actions (let go of ledge and jump) between two hands, which allows you to do it quicker.

theoretically that is...

by what I'm doing heavily influences which I actually find easier to be frame perfect with in practice. for ledge hop aerial, I do x. for firestall I do up. for ledgehop double laser I do y. for filing my taxes, I do L + c-stick up.